Under a curse

[Wild Olive]

I would say this, and it sounds trivial at first, but if one has the 10 commandments hanging up in their house somewhere, there is a good chance you are walking by law.

To walk by the law means it is the obedience to it or disobedience to it that causes you joy or grief. If you feel like you are doing good by the law then you feel as if God is pleased with you. If you fail in the law then you feel God is disappointed in you.

If you walk by the law, you are trying to force your flesh to obey. And it will never work. You may do well at times but it is only temporary. And no matter how well you do, you still come to 'Thou shalt not covet'. Which means, 'did you want to'.

Stranger

Thanks for your reply,
I guess I do not understand, do you still keep the commandments?

So if I do the commandments am I walking by the law or if I have them written on my door posts and gates and if I talk about them on the way or if they are in the frontletts of my forehead and in my hand or if I teach them to my children?

I guess I am still very fuzzy on this, do I keep or not keep God's commandments once I have been saved from my sins?

 

[Stranger]

Thanks for your reply,
I guess I do not understand, do you still keep the commandments?

So if I do the commandments am I walking by the law or if I have them written on my door posts and gates and if I talk about them on the way or if they are in the frontletts of my forehead and in my hand or if I teach them to my children?

I guess I am still very fuzzy on this, do I keep or not keep God's commandments once I have been saved from my sins?

I may keep the commandments, but that is only due to my walk in the Spirit. In other words I am not trying to keep the 10 commandments but as I walk in the Spirit I will naturally be obeying those commandments because God is God and there is nothing wrong with the Law, just my inability to keep it.

We as believers have another law we walk in. That is the law of the Spirit. (Rom. 8:2) The law of God after the inward man. (Rom. 7:22)

As I said before, if you are trying to please God by keeping the 10 commandments, then yes, you are walking by law. There is nothing wrong with teaching them to your children for they are children and need to know.

Well, I don't know how long you have been saved. If one is a child in the faith then the law serves a purpose. (Gal. 3:24-25), (Gal. 4:1-3) But it is only to lead one away from the law to a walk of faith and not law. In other words the law is a means to an end. It is never the end.

Stranger

 

[Helen]

I guess I still live under ought to. Like I ought to give more to the needy and I ought to be nicer to my husband (if you are married I hope you giggle a little on that one. We really can not add to salvation it's a free gift. Once we are saved we have to walk through the valley, put on our armour and I don't know about you but I war against my flesh daily(some days hourly). I know that I must run this race and I am not really a huge fan of running but I need to keep my eyes on Jesus. The way I understand walking through the valley is that is walking according to God's will, His commandments, walking as Jesus did. Is that dead works, am I falling from grace or is this how we are supposed to walk? Thank you for the conversation!

It sounds to me as if you are doing great. We fight, the old law tries to drag us back.
We do have to remind ourselves that we are sons of grace. We do fine unless we think that "we are doing it" rather than God in us!
I like Romans 7 and 8 ...I read it as Paul showing us in Romans seven, his own fight between flesh/law , and Romans 8 , Paul showing what it is to be free from the law...As we know, there are no chapter breaks in the original...so read them straight through...and you see Paul's own deliverance from the law.

You are in good company wild olive...until the end, the devil will keep trying to draw us all back to works.
Bless you....H

 

[Helen]

Thanks for the reply.
I understand that no one is saved by the law. Once we are saved from our sin by the blood of the lamb do we not walk according to the Word of God? Is that not works? In Dueteronomy God calls walking according the commandments life and sin brings the curse. Are we not saved so we can do good works? Sin is death and brings a curse but rightousness is life. Jesus took the curse for us by hanging on a tree. The curse is our due for our transgressions, it is death. Would we not do good works once we are realised from the curse of sin and death? I don't understand what dead works are compared to not dead works. Thanks for allowing me to share

I'm on my iPad so not easy to find scripture references etc ..I'll get back later if that's okay ..bless you....H

 

[Wild Olive]

I may keep the commandments, but that is only due to my walk in the Spirit. In other words I am not trying to keep the 10 commandments but as I walk in the Spirit I will naturally be obeying those commandments because God is God and there is nothing wrong with the Law, just my inability to keep it.

We as believers have another law we walk in. That is the law of the Spirit. (Rom. 8:2) The law of God after the inward man. (Rom. 7:22)

As I said before, if you are trying to please God by keeping the 10 commandments, then yes, you are walking by law. There is nothing wrong with teaching them to your children for they are children and need to know.

Well, I don't know how long you have been saved. If one is a child in the faith then the law serves a purpose. (Gal. 3:24-25), (Gal. 4:1-3) But it is only to lead one away from the law to a walk of faith and not law. In other words the law is a means to an end. It is never the end.

Stranger

Thanks so much for the conversation! I guess what I am stumped on is keeping them to please God or walking in the spirit. Is it not the same? If we want to please God because we love Him is it not the same as being in His spirit? If we love Him wouldn't we strive to do His commandments? Perhaps we are saying the same thing idk

 

[Wild Olive]

I'm on my iPad so not easy to find scripture references etc ..I'll get back later if that's okay ..bless you....H

Bless you too, thanks for the kind replies

 

[Stranger]

Thanks so much for the conversation! I guess what I am stumped on is keeping them to please God or walking in the spirit. Is it not the same? If we want to please God because we love Him is it not the same as being in His spirit? If we love Him wouldn't we strive to do His commandments? Perhaps we are saying the same thing idk

No, we are not saying the same thing.

If you want to please God by keeping the law, you will not please God. Because you won't be able to do it. But, go ahead, if that is your desire.

Stranger

 

[Wild Olive]

No, we are not saying the same thing.

If you want to please God by keeping the law, you will not please God. Because you won't be able to do it. But, go ahead, if that is your desire.

Stranger

In what way is it different? Let me preface this with after one has been saved from sin and receives the spirit. The way I understand it is once we are saved when we hear the Word we are greived by the spirit which leads us to Christ and we desire repentance is that the same as being in the spirit. However we are still battling with the flesh and we still must choose to walk according to His will which is His Word.

 

[Stranger]

In what way is it different?

Haven't I already told you? post #82?

Stranger

 

[Wild Olive]

Haven't I already told you? post #82?

Stranger

So if we are in the spirit we keep the law?

 

[Stranger]

So if we are in the spirit we keep the law?

No.

Stranger

 

[Wild Olive]

No.

Stranger

What do we live by after we are saved? What is the standard of rightousness and where is it defined? I thought Paul said the law was spiritual, Romans 7:14

 

[Stranger]

What do we live by after we are saved? What is the standard of rightousness and where is it defined? I thought Paul said the law was spiritual, Romans 7:14

I have already told you. Read again post #82.

The standard of righteousness is defined in (Rom. 1:17).

The law is spiritual. The inability lies in your ability to keep it.

Stranger

 

[Helen]

Where I see the line drawn between law and works..is firstly Romans 7 and 8. Then from Galatians 4:21
"Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."
Here we have Sarah and Hagar..and their sons Ishmael and Isaac...one the flesh works, one of the Spirit.

Dead works are deceitful. The New Testament speaks about dead works in Hebrews 6:1. It says that we should repent from dead works. In the Old Testament there is no such thing as dead works....there are either have good works or bad works; there is only good and evil.
But in the New Testament we have good works, evil works, and dead works. Good works are works that please God; evil works are works which are mentioned in Galatians 5:19-21, also known as the works of the flesh. So dead works ....Dead works are works that appear good but spring from a wrong motivation done for the wrong reason. ( not for loves sake, but for our effort in trying to impress God or man.)

A good illustration is tithing. Why is there no commandment to tithe in the New Covenant? Because, in the Old Testament, the amount, quantity they gave to God was important. In the New Testament the quality of our giving is what is more important -It's not how much we give, but how we give!!
In the Old Testament, it was a question of how much you gave. If you didn't give 10% you disobeyed.
When we come into the New Covenant, we read in 2 Corinthians 9:7 that the Lord is interested in us giving with joy. LOVE motivation. It all about the motivation and the why of what we do.

That is the best I can do...
"I" understand what I mean, you may not.
Just pray and ask the Lord to show you these things...He is the best Teacher

 

[FHII]

Dead works are deceitful. The New Testament speaks about dead works in Hebrews 6:1. It says that we should repent from dead works. In the Old Testament there is no such thing as dead works....there are either have good works or bad works; there is only good and evil

QUOT

Hebrews 6 is talking a bit more then simple repentance from dead works.

6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, [2] Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

It seems to me we are to move onward instead of trying to continue establishing certain foundations (there are 7 of them listed). One of the foundations we are not to lay again (that is, once its already laid the first time) is repenting from our dead works.

 

[mjrhealth]

I guess what I am stumped on is keeping them to please God or walking in the spirit.

Hi Wild olive, it is faith that pleases God, believing Him. just as it says, when we walk with Him in love, than we do that what is good. We will not always be perfect and we will mess up, just as our own children do as none of us are perfect, but than that is why God loves us and why He gave us Jesus. Seek Him first than wll the other things will follow.

 

[bbyrd009]

No.

Stranger

No?

How bout "if we are in the spirit we will not be breaking the law?"

 

[bbyrd009]

What do we live by after we are saved? What is the standard of rightousness and where is it defined? I thought Paul said the law was spiritual, Romans 7:14

there is a passage about acting only out of strong conviction that i am not able to put my finger directly on at the moment, but "heart, mind, and gut" conviction seems to be a goal to be sought there.

Also, imo it should be recognized that a sin for me may not be a sin for you, as one of the links in the top of that search mentions, @ "eating." Iow if you have doubts, don't do it.

We usually seek some absolute standard for sin, see, when there really is none. Now imo one acting in the Spirit will not be violating any of the Decalogue, and i doubt that Stranger is even disagreeing with this?

29Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar

 

[bbyrd009]

"Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

funny to me now to hear someone say they are a Christian, and then go vote or pledge allegiance, or demonstrate their desire to be under the law some other way

 

[Pisteuo]

Hi Wild olive, it is faith that pleases God, believing Him. just as it says, when we walk with Him in love, than we do that what is good. We will not always be perfect and we will mess up, just as our own children do as none of us are perfect, but than that is why God loves us and why He gave us Jesus. Seek Him first than wll the other things will follow.

amen.
Mat 6:33　 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
This act (if you will) shows where our faith is. It's seeking Him and His will alone and not the pleasing of Him through our own righteousness or acts of obedience. The keeping of His commandments cannot be done without Him anyway. It's a burden you will not be able to bear comfortably...ever. People believe it is good to try to do good on their own hoping God will take notice. This approach will lead you to worshiping yourself if the devil has his way. You will stop believing you are a sinner and had anything to do with putting Jesus on the cross. Instead of following the One who forgives your sins and leads you to doing what you set out to do to begin with. We have sinned and come up short. Then there's Jesus, and now we are clean and white as snow. No other way under our own power. And I kicked against the pricks myself for far too long doing things my way. Do I stumble? Only when I try things my way instead of following Him. So yes, a lot regrettably.

And the good Samaritan comes to mind here for some reason. Doing good apart from Jesus I guess. But I'm speaking of the seeker who wants to please God by trying to yoke themselves with a load no one but Jesus could handle.