Understanding the 'Little Horn' power of Prophecy in Daniel.

[Hobie]

So lets take a look at the 'Little Horn' power we find in Daniel starting in chapter 7 and break Daniel into parts:
Daniel 7:2-4
7:2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
7:4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

Most everyone agrees this is Babylon.
Daniel 7:5
7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

Same agreement that this is Medi-Persia
Daniel 7:6
7:6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

Pretty much agreement this is Greece
Daniel 7:7
7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Here we see Pagan Rome with the ten horns, which are the nations which came up with it. We also get a description in Daniel 2..
Daniel 2:33 &41-43
33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

We see how the nations of the empire progressed and become Western Civilization in Europe, and still have not been able to unite in the manner of the Roman Empire..
Daniel 7:20 &24
7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

So the ten toes mixed with iron and clay are of the fourth Beast who subdues three of the kings, and the Little Horn also comes out from the fourth Beast:
Daniel 7:8
7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

This is Papal Rome, we see much agreement in history..

"Out of the ruins of political Rome, arose the great moral Empire in the 'giant form' of the Roman Church." – A.C. Flick, "The Rise of the Medieval Church," 1900, p. 150.

We see the three of the first horns...

The three kingdoms were to be plucked up to give place for the Papacy. This prediction found the exact fulfillment in the destruction of the three Arian kingdoms: the Heruli, the Vandals, and the Ostrogoths.

"I might cite that three that were eradicated from before the Pope out of the last first given; viz., the Heruli under Odoacer (AKA Odovacar), the Vandals, and the Ostrogoths."- 'Hora Apocalyptica, Vol. III, p. 168, Note 1, London: 1862.

Now we see in verse 8 and 25 that the little horn had eye`s like the eyes of a man and a mouth speaking great things and it "he shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time." or 1260 prophetic years.
Daniel 7:8
I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
Daniel 7:25
Dan 7:25. He shall speak words against the Most High and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and he shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.

But at the end the Little Horn power or Papal Rome will be destroyed at the coming of Christ...
Daniel 7:26
Dan 7:26. But the court shall sit in judgment, and his dominion shall be taken away, to be consumed and destroyed to the end.

So we see several points of history which show who the Little Horn power is as it came to power from among the ten divisions of Europe which were the ten horns. It began as "a little horn" or a little power at its beginning then after the three uprooted horns, the Heruli, the Vandals, and the Ostrogoths were taken out of the way as history shows us. So is we look at the little horn, we see it has a man at its head and it is different than the others.
Daniel 7:8
I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

The little horn, not only had temporal or "state" powers, but we see it starts to blaspheme 'mouth speaking great things', so the little horn was a "church-state" combination, and we see more.
Daniel 7:25
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

The Little Horn would speak 'great words against the most High' or blasphemy. And we see the definition of blasphemy from the Bible is to claim to be God and/or to claim to be able to forgive sin. The Little Horn power would persecute or 'wear out the saints' and kill many of the faithful. And we see this in the Dark Ages, during the 'time and times and the dividing of time' or 1,260 years this Little Horn entity's persecutions brought the death of millions and the Little Horn power would think to change times and law. We have to study and discern what scripture tells on this Little Horn entity, and understand..

 

[Jay Ross]

7:4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

Most everyone agrees this is Babylon.

No: - Babylon may be the first manifestation of the first wind of heaven which is the true beast.

the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

What this quote is telling us is that the four winds of heaven stir up manifestations of themselves from among the people groups, kingdoms, nations and empires of the sea.

7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

Same agreement that this is Medi-Persia

No: - Medi-Persia maybe a manifestation of the second wind of heaven which is the true beast.

7:6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

Pretty much agreement this is Greece

No: - Greece maybe a manifestation of the third wind of heaven which is the true beast.

7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Here we see Pagan Rome with the ten horns, which are the nations which came up with it.

No : - Pagan Roman is not a manifestation of the fourth wind of heaven. This is a Reformation Father's construct to demonise the RCC.

The Manifestation of the fourth wind of heaven came around the 7th century AD and became a religion known as Islam that has influenced up to Ten kings/kingdoms around the world.

With the help of the Little Horn this beast is speaking pompous words such as "Christ is not the Son of God." He is only a prophet who is less than Muhammad.

This is the iniquity of the Amorite people that God said would not be complete when some of Abraham's descendants returned to the land of Canaan and formed a nation in 1948 AD, in Genesis 15:16.

We also get a description in Daniel 2..
Daniel 2:33 &41-43
33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

The reformation fathers wrongly used scripture to interpret Daniel 7 through the use of the Daniel 2 statue prophecy. The Statue prophecy told to Neb by Daniel only deals with nations and empires that have and have had dominion over the land of Babylon. It gives us an outline of the first three segments of the statue, but the prophecy provides no clues as to the nation that is the fourth segment of the statue, and the text suggests that Daniel was somewhat surprised because oof the time gap of some two ages that would occur between the third and the fourth segment of the Statue as Jeremiah prophesied in Jeremaih 50-51. From the historical record we know that Babylon was desolated and devastated around the year 120 BC, some 60 years before the Roman Empire came onto the world state and the Land of Babylon was remembered once more before God in the year 1926 when France and England established a nation over the land of Babylon and called this nation Iraq.

The other claim that has been used is that the segments of the Statue prophecy all had dominion over the Land of Canaan and Israel, but since the Roman Empire had no dominion over the Land of Babylon then this false understanding also falls by the wayside.

7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

So the ten toes mixed with iron and clay are of the fourth Beast who subdues three of the kings, and the Little Horn also comes out from the fourth Beast:

The Daniel 7:20, 24 quote above is of a future four facetted beast that rises up out of the Bottomless Pit after it is released just over 1,000 years from now.

Hobbie sadly you are continuing the "lies" of the Reformation fathers, who also trampled on God's earthly hosts during their time on the earth under the influence of the Little Horn, in their attempt to demonise the RCC.

What I am seeing in your arguments is your grasping at straws to continue the justification of the Reformations fathers views against the RCC.

Let us be generous and accept that both the RCC and the reformation fathers have made many mistakes in their understanding of the scriptures.

We all, both the Reformation Churches and the RCC, need to repent of the iniquities that we have committed so that we redeem ourselves and become acceptable and righteous before God.

If anything, we need to learn from the mistakes of the past and to not repeat them over and over again like what is occurring in the USA at this present time where on political party is demonising the other political party in an attempt to gain power in their own right.

Shalom

 

[covenantee]

No: - Babylon may be the first manifestation of the first wind of heaven which is the true beast.



What this quote is telling us is that the four winds of heaven stir up manifestations of themselves from among the people groups, kingdoms, nations and empires of the sea.



No: - Medi-Persia maybe a manifestation of the second wind of heaven which is the true beast.



No: - Greece maybe a manifestation of the third wind of heaven which is the true beast.



No : - Pagan Roman is not a manifestation of the fourth wind of heaven. This is a Reformation Father's construct to demonise the RCC.

The Manifestation of the fourth wind of heaven came around the 7th century AD and became a religion known as Islam that has influenced up to Ten kings/kingdoms around the world.

With the help of the Little Horn this beast is speaking pompous words such as "Christ is not the Son of God." He is only a prophet who is less than Muhammad.

This is the iniquity of the Amorite people that God said would not be complete when some of Abraham's descendants returned to the land of Canaan and formed a nation in 1948 AD, in Genesis 15:16.



The reformation fathers wrongly used scripture to interpret Daniel 7 through the use of the Daniel 2 statue prophecy. The Statue prophecy told to Neb by Daniel only deals with nations and empires that have and have had dominion over the land of Babylon. It gives us an outline of the first three segments of the statue, but the prophecy provides no clues as to the nation that is the fourth segment of the statue, and the text suggests that Daniel was somewhat surprised because oof the time gap of some two ages that would occur between the third and the fourth segment of the Statue as Jeremiah prophesied in Jeremaih 50-51. From the historical record we know that Babylon was desolated and devastated around the year 120 BC, some 60 years before the Roman Empire came onto the world state and the Land of Babylon was remembered once more before God in the year 1926 when France and England established a nation over the land of Babylon and called this nation Iraq.

The other claim that has been used is that the segments of the Statue prophecy all had dominion over the Land of Canaan and Israel, but since the Roman Empire had no dominion over the Land of Babylon then this false understanding also falls by the wayside.



The Daniel 7:20, 24 quote above is of a future four facetted beast that rises up out of the Bottomless Pit after it is released just over 1,000 years from now.

Hobbie sadly you are continuing the "lies" of the Reformation fathers, who also trampled on God's earthly hosts during their time on the earth under the influence of the Little Horn, in their attempt to demonise the RCC.

What I am seeing in your arguments is your grasping at straws to continue the justification of the Reformations fathers views against the RCC.

Let us be generous and accept that both the RCC and the reformation fathers have made many mistakes in their understanding of the scriptures.

We all, both the Reformation Churches and the RCC, need to repent of the iniquities that we have committed so that we redeem ourselves and become acceptable and righteous before God.

If anything, we need to learn from the mistakes of the past and to not repeat them over and over again like what is occurring in the USA at this present time where on political party is demonising the other political party in an attempt to gain power in their own right.

Shalom

Obviously you're not a Protestant.

Are you one of a kind?

 

[Jay Ross]

Obviously you're not a Protestant.

Are you one of a kind?

We are all one of a kind in God's eyes.

As for being a Protestant, I would rather think of myself as a Callithumpian with no particular association with any flawed theories concerning God's prophetic word.

So much has happened since the Reformation.

The Reformation, also known as the Protestant Reformation and the European Reformation, was a major theological movement in Western Christianity in 16th-century Europe that posed a religious and political challenge to the papacy and the authority of the Catholic Church. Following the start of the Renaissance, the Reformation marked the beginning of Protestantism. Source: -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformation.

Unfortunately, too many people have not moved on from the introduced errors of the reformation period.

This tendency for Christians not to move on from the theories of leaders like Ellen White or the Pentecostal leaders, etc., means that people become trapped in the theological errors of these particular trends.

The main issue that I have with peoples' understanding is that most people refuse to believe in the wicked heavenly hosts like the four winds of heaven entities that stirred up the sea of humanity are the actual beasts that cause their dominate characteristic of each of the four winds of heaven/fallen angels, to manifest in People Groups, Nations, Kingdoms and Empires over a period of some 2,500 years since the time of Daniel's prophecies.

It should be noted that the judgement of the five beasts actually takes place in Heaven, (Daniel 7:9-12) and Isaiah 24:21-22 foretells us that the Beasts that reside in Heaven will be judged at the same time as the Kings of the earth that have chosen to the respective dominions of the five beasts and together, they will be imprisoned in a pit for many days to await the time of their punishment.

Now the Kings of the Earth that will be judged in our near future at Armageddon will have willingly served with their armies with the Little Horn Beast to trample God's sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts, i.e., the Israelites.

However, because so many have hashed God's timeline of when the Armageddon Event will take place such that they place this Armageddon event over a period of some 1,000 plus years in our future.

Now if people do not believe that the Sixth Bowl Judgement is presently unfolding at this present time and that over the next 20 or so years the kings of the earth will be gathered at the place called Armageddon. One of the signs of this judgement is that the River Euphrates has dry up and that three frog like spirits have already performed signa and wonders that has been seen all over the earth in peoples' homes on their TV. Now if you do not accept that 9/11 was the three frog like spirits doing signs and wonders, that was seen in every living room across the world, then you will reject what I post out of hand because these people do not have eyes to see or ears to hear what is recorded in the scriptures.

Goodbye.

 

[covenantee]

Unfortunately to many people have not moved on from the introduced errors of the reformation period.

Do you think that the Reformation's spiritual battle against the apostate papacy was an error?

 

[Jay Ross]

Do you think that the Reformation's spiritual battle against the apostate papacy was an error?

Depends on what aspect you are suggesting with respect to the interactions between the Reformation protagonists and the RCC.

It all depends where in the grey you are talking about with respect to the issues back then.

Goodbye

 

[covenantee]

Depends on what aspect you are suggesting with respect to the interactions between the Reformation protagonists and the RCC.

It all depends where in the grey you are talking about with respect to the issues back then.

Goodbye

Are these grey?

1. “All the names which in the Scripture are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” Robert Cardinal Bellarmine, De Conciliorum Auctoriatate (On the Authority of the Councils) Bk 2, chap. 17
2. “The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God. He is the divine monarch and supreme emperor, and king of kings. Hence the pope is crowned with a triple crown, as King of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions.” Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca, vol.6, art. “Papa II”
3. “We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty.” Pope Leo XIII, in an encyclical letter dated June 20, 1894, The Great Encyclical Letters of Leo XIII, p. 304.

 

[Truth7t7]

We all, both the Reformation Churches and the RCC, need to repent of the iniquities that we have committed so that we redeem ourselves and become acceptable and righteous before God.

Do you follow Reformed or Roman Catholic theology?

If reformed what church, Lutheran?

 

[Jay Ross]

Are these grey?

1. “All the names which in the Scripture are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” Robert Cardinal Bellarmine, De Conciliorum Auctoriatate (On the Authority of the Councils) Bk 2, chap. 17
2. “The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God. He is the divine monarch and supreme emperor, and king of kings. Hence the pope is crowned with a triple crown, as King of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions.” Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca, vol.6, art. “Papa II”
3. “We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty.” Pope Leo XIII, in an encyclical letter dated June 20, 1894, The Great Encyclical Letters of Leo XIII, p. 304.

In any discussion with respect to the beasts from heaven, the theological understanding of just who the beast are becomes very important.

The Reformation fathers misused the scriptures to demonise the RCC not understanding the true entities that are the beasts of Daniel 7.

This same misunderstanding is still being pushed today in this thread. The beasts have no human form. The are wicked fallen heavenly hosts. These beasts can influence sections of the human race to perform the requirements of the respective beast.

I do not believe that this is a complicated concept to comprehend. Sadly, the understanding of many people miss the entity identifier of who or what the respective beasts of Daniel 7 are.

All that you have done is introduced a red herring into the argument, which is way off in understanding the thread's topic.

Goodbye

 

[Jay Ross]

Do you follow Reformed or Roman Catholic theology?

If reformed what church, Lutheran?

No, I do not follow Reformed or Roman Catholic theology with respect to who or what the beasts of Daniel 7 are.

Your question is way off topic and a false argument against what I have been consistently posting.

Goodbye

 

[Hobie]

No, I do not follow Reformed or Roman Catholic theology with respect to who or what the beasts of Daniel 7 are.

Your question is way off topic and a false argument against what I have been consistently posting.

Goodbye

Well lets all look to see what this 'little horn' power is, as the text connects it to something very clear as the prophecy in Daniel gives us the key. Here the exact same time that the 'little horn' power is referred to as ' a time and times and the dividing of time' or 3 1/2 times, a meaning the period of 1260 days/years as found for the Beast of Revelation, lets compare.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Revelation 13:5
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

This verse in Daniel is referring to a period of time that the little horn or Antichrist power will persecute the true believers or true church, and it blasphemes for 1260 years\42 months. The same is true for the time given "that it shall be for a time, times, and an half" for Daniel 12:7
In fact we can connect it to many more and also what the length of the period is for the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation as seen in the use of "time, times and half a time" (i.e. 1+2+0.5=3.5), "1,260 days" and "42 months". These references represent a period of 1260 years as you have to take in account of the 360 day Jewish year multiplied by 3.5. These time periods occur eight times in scripture:
Daniel 7:25, "time, times and a half".
Daniel 9:27, "half one set of seven".
Daniel 12:7, "time, times and a half".
Revelation 11:2, "42 months".
Revelation 11:3, "1260 days".
Revelation 12:6, "1260 days".
Revelation 12:14, "time, times and a half".
Revelation 13:5, "42 months".

Notice it is in the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation and clearly shows this period of 1260 years of the 'little horn/Beast' power prevailing in the church. Lets look closer.

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

The two witnesses is a reference to the Old and New Testament scriptures. For 1260 years scriptural truth would be suppressed, obscured by the traditions of men and all you have to do is ask what church set aside Gods Word and go by its own tradition.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

The true church would flee persecution by the apostate church, with its burning at the stake and forming inquisitions to persecute the true believers.

This antichrist power would become a very powerful religious organization as well as political power as we saw before.
It would be guilty of blasphemy (Revelation 13:5, 6).
It would war with and persecute the saints (Revelation 13:7).
So who persecuted and destroyed millions of saints during the Dark Ages, history is pretty clear on that.

And lets look at how it would reign for 42 months, which equals 1,260 years, the "time, times and half a time". History shows its rise in A.D. 538 not long after the death of Theodoric the strong Ostrogothic king and the defeat of the barbarian tribes around Rome and the Roman code of law restored in Rome along with taking of temporal power as this antichrist power grew stronger, and that takes us to 1798. Lets see what events happened that year and see if any 'religious/political' powered were affected....

January–June​

• January – Eli Whitney contracts with the U.S. federal government for 10,000 muskets, which he produces with interchangeable parts.
• January 4 – Constantine Hangerli enters Bucharest, as Prince of Wallachia.
• January 22 – A coup d'état is staged in the Netherlands (Batavian Republic). Unitarian Democrat Pieter Vreede ends the power of the parliament (with a conservative-moderate majority).
• February 10 – The Pope is taken captive, and the Papacy is removed from power, by French General Louis-Alexandre Berthier.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Here we see Pagan Rome with the ten horns

As soon as I saw this I knew where you was going notice guys he did not call, Greece, Pagan Greece or Babylon, Pagan Babylon. Of course this is all just not factual, he goes down a rabbit hole of old, known false teaching. Most say, you mut be a RC guy, no, I just understand prophesy.

This is Papal Rome, we see much agreement in history..

Knew this was coming. To me its just laughable by now that people are still on this train.

 

[covenantee]

In any discussion with respect to the beasts from heaven, the theological understanding of just who the beast are becomes very important.

The Reformation fathers misused the scriptures to demonise the RCC not understanding the true entities that are the beasts of Daniel 7.

This same misunderstanding is still being pushed today in this thread. The beasts have no human form. The are wicked fallen heavenly hosts. These beasts can influence sections of the human race to perform the requirements of the respective beast.

I do not believe that this is a complicated concept to comprehend. Sadly, the understanding of many people miss the entity identifier of who or what the respective beasts of Daniel 7 are.

All that you have done is introduced a red herring into the argument, which is way off in understanding the thread's topic.

Goodbye

Explain how the arrogation of the names and roles of God and His Son is a red herring.

The Reformers recognized the blasphemies of the apostate papal antichrist.

You don't.

 

[covenantee]

As soon as I saw this I knew where you was going notice guys he did not call, Greece, Pagan Greece or Babylon, Pagan Babylon. Of course this is all just not factual, he goes down a rabbit hole of old, known false teaching. Most say, you mut be a RC guy, no, I just understand prophesy.


Knew this was coming. To me its just laughable by now that people are still on this train.

What is laughable is the captivation of Darby/Scofield deluded dispensational futurites by the spawn of the counter-reformation of the apostate papal antichrist.

 

[Jay Ross]

Explain how the arrogation of the names and roles of God and His Son is a red herring.

The Reformers recognized the blasphemies of the apostate papal antichrist.

You don't.

Again, I am limiting my comments to the Little Horn. I have not labelled the Little Horns as a human entity as you are wanting to do. I perceive that the Little Horn is a wicked fallen heavenly host and that he is an angel and that the Little Horn is a heavenly host entity.

In Ephesians 6:12 Paul states this: -

Ephesians 6:12: - For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Perhaps we should consider the roles of the "darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts, i.e., spiritual winds, of wickedness in the heavenly places." and whether or not the beasts of Daniel 7 are included among the heavenly hosts at the moment.

Goodbye

 

[covenantee]

Again, I am limiting my comments to the Little Horn. I have not labelled the Little Horns as a human entity as you are wanting to do. I perceive that the Little Horn is a wicked fallen heavenly host and that he is an angel and that the Little Horn is a heavenly host entity.

In Ephesians 6:12 Paul states this: -

Ephesians 6:12: - For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Perhaps we should consider the roles of the "darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts, i.e., spiritual winds, of wickedness in the heavenly places." and whether or not the beasts of Daniel 7 are included among the heavenly hosts at the moment.

Goodbye

I'm confident that the Reformers identified the little horn correctly.

They lived in the belly of the beast.

They died under the depredations of the beast.

There was not one dispensational futurist among them.

And by God's grace and mercy, they prevailed "against the rulers of the darkness of that age", liberating the true Church from spiritual darkness and oppression.

You and I and this forum would not exist without their faith, vision, and sacrifice.

 

[Jay Ross]

Well lets all look to see what this 'little horn' power is, as the text connects it to something very clear as the prophecy in Daniel gives us the key. Here the exact same time that the 'little horn' power is referred to as ' a time and times and the dividing of time' or 3 1/2 times, a meaning the period of 1260 days/years as found for the Beast of Revelation, lets compare.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Revelation 13:5
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

This verse in Daniel is referring to a period of time that the little horn or Antichrist power will persecute the true believers or true church, and it blasphemes for 1260 years\42 months. The same is true for the time given "that it shall be for a time, times, and an half" for Daniel 12:7
In fact we can connect it to many more and also what the length of the period is for the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation as seen in the use of "time, times and half a time" (i.e. 1+2+0.5=3.5), "1,260 days" and "42 months". These references represent a period of 1260 years as you have to take in account of the 360 day Jewish year multiplied by 3.5. These time periods occur eight times in scripture:
Daniel 7:25, "time, times and a half".
Daniel 9:27, "half one set of seven".
Daniel 12:7, "time, times and a half".
Revelation 11:2, "42 months".
Revelation 11:3, "1260 days".
Revelation 12:6, "1260 days".
Revelation 12:14, "time, times and a half".
Revelation 13:5, "42 months".

Notice it is in the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation and clearly shows this period of 1260 years of the 'little horn/Beast' power prevailing in the church. Lets look closer.

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

The two witnesses is a reference to the Old and New Testament scriptures. For 1260 years scriptural truth would be suppressed, obscured by the traditions of men and all you have to do is ask what church set aside Gods Word and go by its own tradition.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

The true church would flee persecution by the apostate church, with its burning at the stake and forming inquisitions to persecute the true believers.

This antichrist power would become a very powerful religious organization as well as political power as we saw before.
It would be guilty of blasphemy (Revelation 13:5, 6).
It would war with and persecute the saints (Revelation 13:7).
So who persecuted and destroyed millions of saints during the Dark Ages, history is pretty clear on that.

And lets look at how it would reign for 42 months, which equals 1,260 years, the "time, times and half a time". History shows its rise in A.D. 538 not long after the death of Theodoric the strong Ostrogothic king and the defeat of the barbarian tribes around Rome and the Roman code of law restored in Rome along with taking of temporal power as this antichrist power grew stronger, and that takes us to 1798. Lets see what events happened that year and see if any 'religious/political' powered were affected....

January–June​

• January – Eli Whitney contracts with the U.S. federal government for 10,000 muskets, which he produces with interchangeable parts.
• January 4 – Constantine Hangerli enters Bucharest, as Prince of Wallachia.
• January 22 – A coup d'état is staged in the Netherlands (Batavian Republic). Unitarian Democrat Pieter Vreede ends the power of the parliament (with a conservative-moderate majority).
• February 10 – The Pope is taken captive, and the Papacy is removed from power, by French General Louis-Alexandre Berthier.

None of the above is relevant to the discussion on the five beasts of Daniel 7 or of the discussion of the Little Horn in Daniel 8.

What you are doing is pointing to the manifestations of the beasts that perform the desired tasks of the five beasts.

All of the beasts will soon be judged in heaven as per Daniel 7:1-12 and as per Isaiah 24:21-22 they will be judged in the heaven and sent down to the face of the earth where they will be gathered together with the judged kings of the earth and imprisoned for many days, namely 1,000 years, i.e., a Season, to await the time of their punishment. After they are released from the Bottomless Pit, we are told in Daniel 7:19ff and Revelation 11, 13, 17 and 19:17ff.

Now Revelation 19:19 tells us that the Beast during the Little while Period after it rises up out of the Abyss is not a human entity, but rather the beast has assembled an army from among the peoples of the earth to do his fighting.

Revelation 19:19: - 19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies assembled to wage war against the One seated on the horse, and against His army.

Sadly, in your post above you are mixing up the respective time period in Daniel 7:1-12 with the later time period during the Little While Period that occurs after 1,000 years have passed. This mixing of these two time period adds to the confusion of your understanding of the scriptures.

Perhaps it is time for you to reconsider what you actually know is facts and not confuse others on this forum.

Goodbye

 

[Jay Ross]

I'm confident that the Reformers identified the little horn correctly.

They lived in the belly of the beast.

They died under the depredations of the beast.

There was not one dispensational futurist among them.

And by God's grace and mercy, they prevailed "against the rulers of the darkness of that age", liberating the true Church from spiritual darkness and oppression.

You and I and this forum would not exist without their faith, vision, and sacrifice.

Please take you argument up with God as you will not accept the narrow path that I have taken in this thread that the actual beasts of Daniel 7 are wicked heavenly hosts.

I am not wanting to join in a discussion where the RCC is still being demonised.

Goodbye

 

[covenantee]

Please take you argument up with God as you will not accept the narrow path that I have taken in this thread that the actual beasts of Daniel 7 are wicked heavenly hosts.

I am not wanting to join in a discussion where the RCC is still being demonised.

Goodbye

The blood of the Reformers speaks.

The fallacies of futurism fail.

 

[Jay Ross]

The blood of the Reformers speaks.

The fallacies of futurism fail.

It seems that you do not listen and cannot see what is fairly plainly written in the scriptures.

I HAVE TRIED TO DISINGAGE FROM YOU, BUT YOU KEEP COMING BACK WITH FALSE ALIGATIONS.

Goodbye.