Up is down. Black is white. Grace precedes faith.

[Ronald Nolette]

i can’t believe my ears when I hear a TV preacher who talks about the countless hours they’ve studied the scriptures, repeatedly say something so completely backwards that it’s staggering, especially because it pertains directly to salvation, thus is not a minor doctrinal error.

I just heard another preacher say the - mind boggling in its enormity of egregious error - statement that faith is our response to grace - thus claiming that grace precedes faith.

The very well known and often cited Ephesians 2:8-9 seems to be clear enough that by grace we are saved THROUGH faith.

Through: by way of - via - by means of.

By grace are we saved through - via - by means of, faith.

How can that possibly be misunderstood to the point of stating it backwards, and claim that grace comes first, because faith is our response TO grace?

Faith always comes first. It’s how we get to grace, how we access grace , as is very evident just from Ephesians 2:8-9 alone - but surely someone that said they’ve spent years reading the Bible all day long, would have come across the corroborating scriptures that reinforce the obvious fact that faith comes first, thus cant possibly come from a response TO grace.

Why is this important?

Because salvation occurs the moment we’ve received grace, after coming to faith, as is stated by Paul in Acts 16 to the jailer - believe in Jesus, and you will be saved.

Saying it backwards is saying this: be saved by Jesus and you will believe - which is the egregious error of Calvinists that are forced by their election dogma to put regeneration (salvation) before grace by faith, instead of regeneration by grace through faith

Here’s a couple of scriptures that the preachers who’ve studied the Bible for multiple thousands of hours should have come across, that reinforces the fact that faith precedes grace, and not vice versa:

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access BY faith INTO this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Rom 4:16 Therefore it is OF faith, that it might be BY grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all.

I completely reject any cart-before-the-horse theology that has to put grace before faith to make it fit their dogma, thus putting salvation before faith

BTW faith is our response to hearing the word of God, Romans 10:17 - our faith isn’t a response to grace.

Maranatha

Sorry but grace does come first. God grants us the faith to believe because of Grace! We are empowered to say yes because of grace! Salvation is only possible because of God's grace. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God ! Faith is our response to the grace god pours out to lost and dying individuals like us! All things originate with God and His graqce and mercy to us!

 

[theefaith]

Not for salvation, there isn’t multiple graces.

actual grace
And
Sanctifying grace

 

[theefaith]

Sorry but grace does come first. God grants us the faith to believe because of Grace! We are empowered to say yes because of grace! Salvation is only possible because of God's grace. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God ! Faith is our response to the grace god pours out to lost and dying individuals like us! All things originate with God and His graqce and mercy to us!

actual grace
Then
Sanctifying grace from the sacraments

 

[Ronald Nolette]

actual grace
Then
Sanctifying grace from the sacraments

Sacraments do not sanctify- that is unbiblical and thus not of God.

 

[theefaith]

Sacraments do not sanctify- that is unbiblical and thus not of God.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

 

[QuickFilly]

Of course God's grace precedes our faith in God's grace.

 

[farouk]

Sorry but grace does come first. God grants us the faith to believe because of Grace! We are empowered to say yes because of grace! Salvation is only possible because of God's grace. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God ! Faith is our response to the grace god pours out to lost and dying individuals like us! All things originate with God and His graqce and mercy to us!

@Ronald Nolette There is that 'But God....', intervening in grace, in Ephesians 2...

 

[amigo de christo]

Sacraments do not sanctify- that is unbiblical and thus not of God.

You saved me the response . Thee faith is truly of the RCC .

 

[amigo de christo]

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

This aint got a thing to do with the RCC my friend .
They so busy grabbing beads and every other idol and praying to saints , to mary and who knows who else .
Should have prayed to GOD in JESUS NAME . WORSHIP GOD . all else is vain .

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Romans 10:9-12
King James Version

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


YOu forget that Jews in this time converting to Christianity had to be baptized in the name of Jesus. Baptism does not wash away sins. The blo0od of Jesus does!

 

[theefaith]

Romans 10:9-12
King James Version

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


YOu forget that Jews in this time converting to Christianity had to be baptized in the name of Jesus. Baptism does not wash away sins. The blo0od of Jesus does!

no the blood of Jesus does not

the merits of the blood of Jesus
And they are the source of divine graces that are applied to our souls in the church thru the sacraments

 

[theefaith]

This aint got a thing to do with the RCC my friend .
They so busy grabbing beads and every other idol and praying to saints , to mary and who knows who else .
Should have prayed to GOD in JESUS NAME . WORSHIP GOD . all else is vain .

you have a problem with the rosary now?
Christian meditation on the life of Christ, especially His passion and death

 

[theefaith]

Romans 10:9-12
King James Version

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


YOu forget that Jews in this time converting to Christianity had to be baptized in the name of Jesus. Baptism does not wash away sins. The blo0od of Jesus does!

you say no!
God
Jesus
Scripture say yes!

Ez 36:25-27
mk 16:16
Acts 8:36-38

 

[Nancy]

you have a problem with the rosary now?
Christian meditation on the life of Christ, especially His passion and death

The rosary beads are nothing more than repetitive prayer, over and over again. How many "hail Mary's"? How many "Our Father's"? Act of contrition's? Been a long time since being in the RCC. Over and over again, oh how I hated the rosary...empty words.
Cannot see where this is ANYWHERE in the bible my friend, and I tried!

Matthew 6:7
"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."

 

[amigo de christo]

The rosary beads are nothing more than repetitive prayer, over and over again. How many "hail Mary's"? How many "Our Father's"? Act of contrition's? Been a long time since being in the RCC. Over and over again, oh how I hated the rosary...empty words.
Cannot see where this is ANYWHERE in the bible my friend, and I tried!

Matthew 6:7
"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."

exactly sister . BUT THIS RIGHT HERE IS IN THE BIBLE , USE NOT vain repetitions , they think they be heard for their many words .
Like GOD needs us to hold onto to beads to hear us . And praying to mary and to the saints is blasphemy .
I truly pray for thee faith . BUT TILL HE COMES TO THE FAITH , He has no hope . We must point To JESUS MY FRIENDS .

 

[Curtis]

I don’t have such a view on those who are called “cessationist” whatever that exactly means and refers to.

And I don’t see that as a refusal, more so, as proof that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are offered for the taking or refusal.

With regards the Pharisees that persecuted Christ, I don’t see that as proof that salvation is an offer for the taking or refusal either.

It is God who gives grace, even the grace of salvation. He gives grace to whom He wills to give it, according to the counsel of His will.

Tong
R3932

Gifts can be refused, and frequently are.

If it’s a compulsion, it’s not a gift.

Jesus stands at the door knocking, asking to be let in - He doesn’t knock it down and serve a salvation warrant.

Jesus came for His own, but they rejected Him, and killed Him, because they refused the gift by resisting the Holy Spirit John 1:11, Acts 7:51-52, but yet those who choose to receive Jesus, become
Children of God John 1:12.

John 1:11-12 shows our freewill choice: reject Jesus, or receive Jesus.

That the HS can be resisted falsifies irresistible grace. Acts 7:51-52

 

[Curtis]

The rosary beads are nothing more than repetitive prayer, over and over again. How many "hail Mary's"? How many "Our Father's"? Act of contrition's? Been a long time since being in the RCC. Over and over again, oh how I hated the rosary...empty words.
Cannot see where this is ANYWHERE in the bible my friend, and I tried!

Matthew 6:7
"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."

The rosary is so repetitious that the nuns on EWTN have a hard time staying awake while reciting it.

 

[Tong2020]

Gifts can be refused, and frequently are.

If it’s a compulsion, it’s not a gift.

Jesus stands at the door knocking, asking to be let in - He doesn’t knock it down and serve a salvation warrant.

Jesus came for His own, but they rejected Him, and killed Him, because they refused the gift by resisting the Holy Spirit John 1:11, Acts 7:51-52, but yet those who choose to receive Jesus, become
Children of God John 1:12.

John 1:11-12 shows our freewill choice: reject Jesus, or receive Jesus.

That the HS can be resisted falsifies irresistible grace. Acts 7:51-52

Gifts of God are graces. And God’s grace are never forced but are freely given by Him. God freely gives grace to whom He wills to give it, according to the counsel of His will.

Salvation unto eternal life is one of the many graces of God that He freely gives to whom He wills to give it, according to the counsel of His will. Those who are given this grace, are them whom the Father gives to the Son. Those whom the Father gives to the Son, Jesus said will come to Him. If one thinks that all human beings or that just anybody can come to Jesus at will, he is mistaken. For Jesus said, “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him”. The Father gives and draws this people to the Son, whom the Son will raise up in the last day unto eternal life.

Tong
R3934

 

[theefaith]

The rosary beads are nothing more than repetitive prayer, over and over again. How many "hail Mary's"? How many "Our Father's"? Act of contrition's? Been a long time since being in the RCC. Over and over again, oh how I hated the rosary...empty words.
Cannot see where this is ANYWHERE in the bible my friend, and I tried!

Matthew 6:7
"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."

come on nance you know better!

what the difference between repetitive prayer and repeating of a single prayer?

repeating a single prayer is not forbidden
Repeating yourself in a prayer is forbidden

christ Prayed three times! Let this cup pass from me!

meditation on the word in the mystery’s of our salvation is not something a saint would ever hate!

meditation on the passion and death, blood, wounds and holy face of a Jesus brings repentance and sanctification

if I be lifted up, (seen) I draw all men to myself Jn 12:32

gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

now want to try call no man father?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

no the blood of Jesus does not

the merits of the blood of Jesus
And they are the source of divine graces that are applied to our souls in the church thru the sacraments

Read your bible and get back to me! I do not care what Rome says. What matters is what the Bible says and it says it is the blood of Jesus that removes sin!.

Matthew 26:28
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mark 14:24
And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

Romans 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Ephesians 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Ephesians 2:13
But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Colossians 1:14
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Hebrews 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Hebrews 10:19
Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,


Not once does it say "the merits of HIs blood." but it was Hios blood shed that purchased my full forgiveness and eternal salvation!