Use Not this verse : 1 John 1:9...if you are born again.

[Stumpmaster]

The "Christian" is the born again "new Creation in Christ".

This is not your body or your mind.

So, as you dont understand this, you'll not understand :

1 John 3:9

Disciples of Christ = Christians

Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Acts 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, You almost persuade me to be a Christian.

1Peter 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

 

[Stumpmaster]

If you have sin, then Jesus didnt die for your's yet.

The question of whether the death of Christ on the Cross purchased salvation for everyone is a matter of theological debate among Christians.

Sufficiency Doctrine:
Some hold the view that Christ died for all people, and that anyone who believes in him can be saved by his grace. This is known as universal atonement or unlimited atonement.

Efficiency Doctrine:
Others argue that Christ died only for those whom God has chosen to save, and that his death is effective only for them. This is known as particular atonement or limited atonement. Both views have biblical support and historical precedent, and both have implications for how Christians understand the nature of God, the role of human free will, and the scope of God's love.

Proficiency Doctrine:
Obviously the death of Christ on the Cross is both sufficient and efficient to save sinners. All sin is atoned for by Christ but not all sinners are willing to accept Christ as their Saviour.

1Pe 1:1-5 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, (2) elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied. (3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (4) to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, (5) who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[Behold]

The question of whether the death of Christ on the Cross purchased salvation for everyone is a matter of theological debate among Christians.

Not at all.

Just read the NT.
Its really that simple.

Start with John 3:16-17

Then go to .. 2 Corinthians 5:19

Then go to Hebrews 10:10

Here is what you can explain to "scholarship".... just tell them that the Cross of Christ that is the Blood Atonement, didn't miss one sin.
It covered them all.

Welcome To : Salvation

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If you have sin, then Jesus didnt die for your's yet.

Sorry, but you do not even know what happens at salvation. We become new creatures, but even though our flesh is rendered dead, we must wrestle with it daily.

Your not so subtle attempt[t to promote sinless perfection or you are not saved is a lie!

See, Jesus is the "ONE TIME Eternal sacrifice for sin".... So if you 'Have sin", then Jesus hasn't paid for them yet.

And I will rebut this lie with one verse:

1 John 1:8

King James Version

​

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

You can rely on your faulty reasoning , I will rely on Scripture.

1.) "God hath made Jesus to be sin for us"..

2.) "Jesus is the one time eternal sacrifice for sin"

3..) Only the law can define your wrong deeds as sin, and "Christ is the end of the Law for Righteousess"

4.) "He that is DEAD... (the old man is CRUCIFIED with Christ).........is FREED from sin.""

5.) "you are not under the law, but under GRACE"

6.) "where sin abounds, GRACE more abounds"......and the Grace of God is the Blood of Jesus that removes all sin, always.

I agree 100% with all these verses, but not with your reinterpreting them to promote the lie of sinless perfection.

Yes if one can live with 100% knowledge (impossible) and 100% in the Spirit all the time and never revert back to the human nature, and is endowed immediately after salvation with everything that God calls sin (impossible) then yes one would never sin again.

We are freed from sin, we no longer have to obey it!

but we do and that is why god wrote 1 John 1:9 for HIS children, because we live in these bodies of sin and death, do not know all things, our faith is not perfected yet etc.etc. You make God an unforgiving ogre once you have been born again! Or as it seems you would have it, if one sins after they trust in Jesus, they were not born again.

You are in serious bondage to a lie!

 

[Behold]

Sorry, but you do not even know what happens at salvation. We become new creatures, but even though our flesh is rendered dead, we must wrestle with it daily.

Yes, your theology has no understanding of being born again.

You are "struggling" with Flesh issues, even tho Paul teaches you to... understand that your "old man of sin is crucified with Christ", and "being now freed from sin", you are to "reckon the Old man (sin nature) dead."""

You haven't yet, Ronald., and that is why you have issues with your flesh.

Here is what you can have, according to Paul's Doctrine...

"Christ always gives me the Victory"

"I can do all things though Christ".


So, does that sound like what you are teaching?
Does is SOUND LIKE Paul is struggling with his sin and flesh and lust, as you are teaching that is your struggle.?
Why do you not know that in all of Paul's 13 Epistles, He never once confessed sin, or told you to do it.
You are stuck in 1 John 1:9, because you have never read or understood 1 John 3:9 that is for the Born again.

Listen
The reason you struggle is because you are this one.

= "what i would do, i can't and that which i hate i do".

See yourself?
That's you., and not just you.

See that, broken faith and ruined discipleship??
That is the discipleship of every person .... who does not understand what it means to be born again, "in Christ" like this...

= "As Jesus IS.......so are the born again....... IN THIS WORLD"...

So, do you think Jesus is sinning and confessing?

Now, i realize that you can post that "oh i understand it", and you can quote a few verses, but your self definition of your Christianity, is to come to a public Christian Forum and deny that God through Christ is your power to live the Holy Life.
NetChaplin loves your theology.
Self Saving Legalists love your theology.
The Devil admires it also.
However, Christ denies it......and you want to try to prove that my walk in Christ is like yours.

Its not....

See, long ago, i read this.. Ronald

Paul said... "Be a follower of ME, as i follow Christ"....
So, i did.......and in that ongoing daily fellowship with the greatest Christian who ever lived, i was taught how to do this..

"Christ always gives me the Victory".
"I can do all things through Christ".
"being now made FREE FROM SIN You ( ME) became a servant of Righteousness".

See, im FREE from Sin, and you are here trying to prove you are supposed to live in it.

Listen....The reason you dont have freedom from SIN, is not the fault of the Cross. Its simply because you never did this...

= Paul said...>"be a follower of me, as i follow Christ".

So, if you go now and get into His Epistles, and stay there for a while, He will teach you how to walk in the Spirit and perfect your discipleship .....and that is NOT to struggle with your sin/flesh issue for the rest of your life, Ronald Nolette.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes, your theology has no understanding of being born again.

No my theology has a thorough understanding of what it means to be ana-gennao, or gennao anothen (born from above). It is you who allowed yourself to take the proper understanding of the new birth and then allow the results to be twisted by a sinister lie!

You are "struggling" with Flesh issues, even tho Paul teaches you to... understand that your "old man of sin is crucified with Christ", and "being now freed from sin", you are to "reckon the Old man (sin nature) dead."""

My old man is dead and my life is now hidden with Christ in god! So you do not know what I believe and know. It would behoove you to stop making up stuff about what I believe.

You will never convince anyone of your demonic decpetion that we have to live sinlessly perfect in order to be born again. that is the lie here and not the mercy and compassion of God for His children to provide them with a basis of acknowledging when they fall short.

I will conclude with warning you of what John wrote right before He wrote 1 John 1:9

1 John 1:8-9

King James Version

​

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If you believe that you no longer sin- you deceive yourself and teh truth is not in you! You seem to believe you have no sin!

1 JOhn 1:9 was written for believers and not unbelievers! If you studied to show yourself approved unto God, you would know that.

Have the last word if you wish.

 

[Behold]

My old man is dead and my life is now hidden with Christ in god!

Yet you are on this very forum denying that Christ has made the born again free from sin.

You just told us that its not possible to live free from sin, when Jesus died to provide that deliverance through His Blood and Death.

New International Version
You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

New Living Translation
Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living.

English Standard Version
and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.

Berean Standard Bible
You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

Berean Literal Bible
And having been set free from sin, you have become slaves to righteousness.

King James Bible
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

New King James Version
And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

New American Standard Bible
and after being freed from sin, you became slaves to righteousness.

NASB 1995
and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

NASB 1977
and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

Legacy Standard Bible
and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

Amplified Bible
And having been set free from sin, you have become the slaves of righteousness [of conformity to God’s will and purpose].

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yet you are on this very forum denying that Christ has made the born again free from sin.

If you only knew the context of this verse and what Paul is saying! You wouldn't sound so ignorant of spiritual truths!

 

[Behold]

If you only knew the context of this verse and what Paul is saying! You wouldn't sound so ignorant of spiritual truths!

"spiritually ignorant" would be to teach that you are "going to sin every day".... "christians are going to sin".

But that is not the worst of it...
The worst part of such deception, is that when YOU teach this evil message, you are denying the Cross.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Where did you get "suicide"?

And why do you obsess on sin, if you are born again?

here are no sins on the born again.. They are all on Christ, on the Cross. as "God hath made Jesus to be sin for us".
The born again are "made Free from sin"...... and God does not charge sin to the born again..

Romans 4:8
2 Corinthians 5:19

There is no more spiritual death for the Born again.
Spiritual death is "in Adam" and the Born again are "In Christ".
Christ is Eternal life, and all the born again have eternal life by being 'In Christ".

You said:
Let me show you how to understand that verse.
That verse is not referring to physical death, as physical death itself was created by Adam's sin, not ours.

I'm also ruling out suicide for this verse.

I also wonder about no physical death for those once born again, but have since forsaken Christ. You say they go to heaven, but what about spending that eternal life in hell. I don't know for sure, but Peter's words have to make me wonder if that is what he meant.

2 Peter 2:
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I teach Christ Crucified for the sin of us all,

Pauline Theology

2 Corinthians 5:19

And, when we believe in Jesus, God gives us Eternal life, and Righteousness.
We get it the second we believe.....as Jesus said if we believe in Him, He gives us eternal life.
Yet....We have not gone out and "abided" or kept commandments, or tried to be good, yet.

Do you understand this, 1stCenturyLady?

See, God takes us based only on the Cross, "while we are yet sinners"..
The born again, are "in Christ" "one with God". already, as soon as God accepted their Faith.

So, its ungodly theology for you to teach that a born again person has to go out and by behavior try to keep what God has already supplied, as the new birth.

Being born again, is the only reason you go to heaven, because its the only reason a Christian is already there, "seated in heavenly places" "in Christ".
There is no earning it or keeping THAT, by self effort, as being born again is God caused and God created.

How you behave later after you are born again, has no impact on "the new creation" "In Christ". = has no impact on your Salvation.
But it will be reflected in your walk of faith and your discipleship.
Behavior , after you are born again, only reflects if your faith is correct, or not.

Regarding a born again Christian.....If their faith is broken, then the person believes that they can lose their salvation., and they try to perform for God so that He would accept them, because they dont understand that God only accepts us through the Cross of Christ.

See, we stay saved for the very reason we became saved.
The Blood of Jesus and the death of Christ= that is the Eternal Redemption that is the Grace of God, = "The Gift of Salvation".

Jesus clarified what you believe with the words must endure to the end. You say God is trapped to allow a willful sinner into heaven.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Paul does not teach that quenching the Spirit is to lose Salvaiton.

A heretic would teach it, however.

If you read the verse, the context is tied to Prophecies.... so, this is all related to the move of the Spirit.

There is a difference between grieving the Spirit - I've done that by not reacting soon enough to a check in my Spirit. But quenching is dangerous to us. God will not be mocked.

What does this verse mean to you in Hebrews 6:4-6
Does it give you no pause to stay righteous?


4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

 

[Stumpmaster]

"spiritually ignorant" would be to teach that you are "going to sin every day".... "christians are going to sin".

But that is not the worst of it...
The worst part of such deception, is that when YOU teach this evil message, you are denying the Cross.

Jas 5:16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

Mat 18:15-17 “If your brother sins against you, go, show him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained back your brother. (16) But if he doesn’t listen, take one or two more with you, that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. (17) If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the assembly. If he refuses to hear the assembly also, let him be to you as a Gentile or a tax collector.

Col 3:12-13 Put on therefore, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, a heart of compassion, kindness, lowliness, humility, and perseverance; (13) bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, if any man has a complaint against any; even as Christ forgave you, so you also do.

The fact that Christians do sin bothers those who adhere to the false doctrine of sinless perfection, but doesn't change the fact of it. Pastors sometimes swear, maybe steal, or lie, and many have fallen into adultery. This doesn't mean they weren't Christians or weren't saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works lest anyone should boast. The brand spanking new Christian on the day they accept Christ as their Saviour doesn't suddenly find they have no vices, and are capable of giving perfect service, never again getting impatient or angry, are never again selfish or never fail in any aspect of Godliness, holiness and righteous living.

Some sins are not a salvation issue but rather a sanctification issue, which the washing of feet episode is analogous to.
Joh 13:10 Jesus said to him, "He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you."

1Jn 2:1-2 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (2) And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

"spiritually ignorant" would be to teach that you are "going to sin every day".... "christians are going to sin".

But that is not the worst of it...
The worst part of such deception, is that when YOU teach this evil message, you are denying the Cross.

And lying about what I accept or deny only makes you small!

You are not sinlessly perfect, and you will not be until you get home, just like the rest of followers of Jesus.

Once again I give you the Word of God that condemns the lie you have bought into:

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

No matter what you say- this is written for believers!

1 John 2:1-3

King James Version

​

2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Another verse written to and for believers that you seem to reject.

Also, if you wish to know what I believe and accept or deny- ask me instead of sinning the sin of presumption and then lying about my beliefs.

 

[Behold]

And lying about what I accept or deny only makes you small!

Ive good news for you.
The readers here, can read what i write, and compare it to how you misunderstand it.
Nothing new.

Read carefully...
-
You must believe 2 things, or you will always be trying to get to what you will never find., which is a holy walk and a mind that is free from sin consciousness.
See.... Real spiritual power and a sustained holy walk comes from the renewed mind that exists in correct faith.

1.) BELIEVE : You are always at peace with God. Always... Romans 5:1

So, No matter what you just did wrong, again, next month, you are always at Peace with GOD.
And the reason is, its not by what you do that causes God to always be at Peace with you.. But rather its because of Christ's accomplishment....
= His "finished work on the Cross' that is the "once and for all eternal redemption that Christ Gained" = the REASON God will always be at peace with all His Born Again Children.
So, on your best spiritual day, or on your most carnal backslidden day, ,..that SAME BLOOD of God that was shed on The Cross, is what God accepted to accept you as His OWN, if you are born again.... and this will always keep you in perfect Peace with God.
God's shed blood keeps you in perfect peace with God.= Believe this... remember this......Trust this eternal reality.
Now Ronald....your carnal mind... your mind of the flesh will rebel at this idea., always.
Your natural inclination will resist this fact, regarding God's peace and how its maintained by Christ's Atonement.
Thats the mind of the Flesh, the self righteous mind.
And that is the part of you that you that you have to RENEW, so that it does not keep you any longer from correct faith.

2.) BELIEVE : All you Sin is forgiven.. ALL. Colossians 2:13

See, if it wasn't, then you could not have Peace with God, you could not be born again, and you could NOT be a Son-Daughter - Child of God.
All your sin had to be resolved by GOD as Christ on the Cross...., so THAT you can exist in GOD, "In Christ" and in Eternity with God, right now.
Now once again, your flesh , your carnal mind, will rebel at this idea. It will not want to believe it... and THAT part of you is what you have to renew as that is the WRONG MIND. And that MIND will keep you in bondage to wrong faith.... and striving to be good, repenting, and yet failing.

 

[Behold]

You are not sinlessly perfect, and you will not be until you get home, just like the rest of followers of Jesus.

Ok look again...

A.) Paul didn't confess sin.

Because......"Jesus is the one time ETERNAL SACRIFICE for Sin".... "ETERNAL">.= FOREVER. Completed... or as Jesus taught us from the Cross.. "It is FINISHED".

Jesus "became sin", He became our sin..... and took it to the grave and came out of the Grave and our sin didn't, if you are born again, and not just water baptized and religious.

So, here is how that works......

"The law is the power of sin, and the power of sin, is the Law".

The born again are "not under the law, they are under Grace".

"where there is no law, there is no Transgression".

So, by being delivered from the curse of the law, .."Jesus has delivered us, redeemed us, from the Curse of the Law"..

We , the born again now exist as : "Translated from Darkness .... TO LIGHT".

Where is that, Ronald??
That is the Kingdom of God...."God exists in LIGHT".. "Jesus is the Light of the WORLD"..."the born again are children of THE Light".
= We exist THERE.......Spiritually, and that is the true "Son/Daughter of God"......not the body or the mind.

And what is not found in the KOG? = What is not found in Heaven, reader...

Think.....

= Its MOSES LAW or Commandments.

Does God need them? Jesus? C'mon.

So.....What is there?

The Law of Love = Grace..
And that is why Jesus's commandments are to LOVE your neighbor and your fellow Christians, as LOVE is the law of the KOG, of HEAVEN..... not Moses's law or the 10 commandments, or water baptism, or any of that stuff.

So, as the Born again EXIST "in Christ" "one with GOD" in the KOG, right now..... and there is no LAW there, and we are "under Grace".... there is no confession for something that "God made Jesus to be our sin" .......that does not exist where we exist Spiritually.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

1.) BELIEVE : You are always at peace with God. Always... Romans 5:1

I have for decades!

2.) BELIEVE : All you Sin is forgiven.. ALL. Colossians 2:13

I have for decades!

But none of this shows one must live sinlessly perfect or they are not saved. Now to be perfectly clear, I am not promoting believers to sin, but I promote just like Paul in romans 6, and JOhn in

1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

And I also believe that those who believe they live sinlessly perfect lives all the time are experiencing this:

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ok look again...

A.) Paul didn't confess sin.

1 John 1:8-9

King James Version

​

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Go ahead and base you rlife on things not written. I will on what is written.

We shall let the Lord Himself show who is right and who is deceived.

 

[Behold]

I have for decades!


I have for decades!

But none of this shows one must live sinlessly perfect

Well, here is the issue.

You have some idea, or a teaching that you have taken to heart that is this one....."sinless perfection".
So, that is not what im discussing with you..

Watch,..
Paul teaches that ,,,, "as many as be Perfect"... is real Christianity.

And Paul teaches this......"the fullness of the Stature of Christ".

See those 2,? Both of them are explaining the final stage of right faith that is "walking in the Spirit", that is what each born again person is to become, not just figure out...... and that is not related to sin or lifestyle. But its a place of attaining THE "Knowledge of God" so that you do this... = "Work out your Salvation". so that you understand how to exist in it, as its designed.

Now Paul teaches that "all things are LAWFUL for me"....
So, how can "ALL things" be lawful?
Its based on being "Under Grace" which removes the Law's ability to define you as a sinner.

So, for the Born again.....sin is not the issue any more.
The issue is that the born again must learn who they have become, as a "new Creation in Christ".
When we learn this, then we have worked our our Salvation, and our renewed mind is become :The Knowledge of God.

The Knowledge of God, is not about believing that God exists, or to have some dictionary related understanding about God.
That's wikipedia.
No.. The Knowledge of God is God's Knowledge, its His perspective, and God has only one perspective of the Born Again.
They are "made Righteous", and are become a "new Creation". "In Christ", and there is no sin found there.

Consider that the Devil and his followers, the Angels, had sin, and they were cast out.
The born again, all exit...as ..."seated in heavenly places"...."In Christ".
We are there right now, and we could not be there if we had sin.
We dont have it.... because "Jesus is the one time ETERNAL sacrifice for sin"...because "God hath made JESUS to be sin for us".
And Because He has become our sin, and died, then that solves it. " 'The old man of sin is crucified with Christ"..

So, when a person is looking at their carnal deeds through the Law, then they SEE SIN, because the LAW defines it so.
That's you Ronald....That is how you're seeing it, and yourself......you are seeing through the LAW., and that is not how GOD sees you or any of the born again..
But when a person has The Knowledge of God, as their renewed mind.... they then see their deeds as "in Christ", "made righteous" and "have become the righteousness of God in Christ".
See that? That is the Knowledge of God as the "Renewed mind"., and that mind is how we attain "as many as be perfect".
When we exist in that mind, with no shadow of turning, then we have "worked our our salvation".

The born again are "not under the law = but under GRACE"..... so The RULE BOOK of Moses is Gone, and the Grace of God is the New Law.
"Christ is the end of the LAW, for everyone who believes".
= All the Born again.

You have to learn to see yourself in that Spiritual Light, as that is the only real faith and correct understanding that Exists in the KOG, "in Christ" where are the born again have entered.

This is why 1 John 3:9, is for the born again.......and not 1 John 1:9

 

[Behold]

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Actually,
If you say you have sin, after """"Jesus has become your sin, as the one time eternal sacrifice""", then you are denying the Cross.

You can, but you shouldn't.