Virgin birth?

[theefaith]

The Christian doctrine of the Virgin birth revealed by Christ to His church includes both the miraculous conception of Jesus by the Holy Ghost and the miraculous birth of Jesus while Mary remains a Virgin!

Is 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

matt 1:20
But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Apostles creed:
...Conceived of the Holy Ghost and born of the Virgin Mary...

Saint Augustine:
A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?

and at the same time is the son of Joseph.

John 1:45
Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

 

[jaybird]

The Christian doctrine of the Virgin birth revealed by Christ to His church includes both the miraculous conception of Jesus by the Holy Ghost and the miraculous birth of Jesus while Mary remains a Virgin!

Is 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

matt 1:20
But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Apostles creed:
...Conceived of the Holy Ghost and born of the Virgin Mary...

Saint Augustine:
A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?

and at the same time is the son of Joseph.

John 1:45
Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

why is it a big deal that Jesus was born from a virgin birth?

 

[theefaith]

Cos some on here say she was not a Virgin at his birth or a perpetual Virgin

the big deal is Christ is known as God because of the perpetual virginity of Mary

Mary is the sign promised by God
Gen 3:15 Is 7:14

 

[jaybird]

Cos some on here say she was not a Virgin at his birth or a perpetual Virgin

the big deal is Christ is known as God because of the perpetual virginity of Mary

Mary is the sign promised by God
Gen 3:15 Is 7:14

ok but why does it matter? if Mary was NOT a virgin, what does this undo?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

We've been over this many times @theefaith :

Yes, Mary was a virgin at the time of Christ's conception & birth. Such is clear in scripture.
Anything virginity past then is not stated in scripture. Catholic Tradition does declare such to be so, which fine that's a Catholic belief. For all of us non-Catholics though, Catholic Tradition is not a source of authority and hence it holds no foundation.
Speaking personally, I'm totally ok acknowledging Catholic beliefs in this regard- I respect your right to believe as you do. However, when a Catholic does not in turn respect my right to believe, and instead tries to shove things down my throat, then naturally I get resentful of both the shove-er and the thing being shoved. It's a natural gag reflex.

 

[theefaith]

ok but why does it matter? if Mary was NOT a virgin, what does this undo?

only God can be born of a Virgin

mary is the sign of our salvation promised by God, gen 3:15 Is 7:14
Matt 1:20-23

 

[jaybird]

only God can be born of a Virgin

mary is the sign of our salvation promised by God, gen 3:15 Is 7:14
Matt 1:20-23

but that was not an idea at the time of Jesus, the trinity would not begin for hundreds of years after Jesus ascended.

 

[theefaith]

but that was not an idea at the time of Jesus, the trinity would not begin for hundreds of years after Jesus ascended.

The Christian one true Faith was handed from Christ to the apostles eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

 

[jaybird]

The Christian one true Faith was handed from Christ to the apostles eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

i agree but i was talking about the trinity doctrine which would not begin until almost 400 years after Jesus and didnt complete until at least 600 years after Jesus.

 

[theefaith]

We've been over this many times @theefaith :

Yes, Mary was a virgin at the time of Christ's conception & birth. Such is clear in scripture.
Anything virginity past then is not stated in scripture. Catholic Tradition does declare such to be so, which fine that's a Catholic belief. For all of us non-Catholics though, Catholic Tradition is not a source of authority and hence it holds no foundation.
Speaking personally, I'm totally ok acknowledging Catholic beliefs in this regard- I respect your right to believe as you do. However, when a Catholic does not in turn respect my right to believe, and instead tries to shove things down my throat, then naturally I get resentful of both the shove-er and the thing being shoved. It's a natural gag reflex.

no this is not about the perpetual virginity but the Virgin birth, that Christ was born of a Virgin as some on here are denying, and that His was a natural birth with birth pangs, but as was His conception His birth was miraculous!

 

[theefaith]

but that was not an idea at the time of Jesus, the trinity would not begin for hundreds of years after Jesus ascended.

really?

Matt 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, trinity even before the beginning of His ministry
Eph 4:5 says one faith of Christians Jude 1:3 says this faith was delivered whole and entire to the church of the apostles

 

[mjrhealth]

no this is not about the perpetual virginity but the Virgin birth, that Christ was born of a Virgin as some on here are denying, and that His was a natural birth with birth pangs, but as was His conception His birth was miraculous!

There is no one here denying that Jesus was born of a virgin, it is you who is making an idiotic statement claiming she remained a virgin, It was never important enough to mention because it doesnt matter after that.

 

[theefaith]

Someone sent me a message that Mary had a natural birth and violated hymen etc. I thought it was you, but I could be wrong

 

[mjrhealth]

Someone sent me a message that Mary had a natural birth and violated hymen etc. I thought it was you, but I could be wrong

I guess than you should check.

 

[theefaith]

I looked but it’s hard to find with so many I communicate with on here

 

[theefaith]

So you believe the Virgin birth? Good
What about Joseph being the father of Jesus?

 

[jaybird]

really?

Matt 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, trinity even before the beginning of His ministry
Eph 4:5 says one faith of Christians Jude 1:3 says this faith was delivered whole and entire to the church of the apostles

yes really. there is no trinity passage in the bible, rome invented it hundreds of years later. those are some great passages you posted but none teach a trinity which is why it wasnt a thing at the time. if any of those passages taught a trinity then thre would be no need for the doctrine. we are commanded not to steal in the 10 commandments, why is there not a doctrine on stealing, because dont steal is a plain teaching.
a trinity teaching would be Jesus calling together the disciples and plainly,clearly, explaining to them the the three persons and co equality of the three persons.
Jews have never believed in a trinity, they believe the Most High is one, not a trinity one. Jesus agrees with the Jewish view in Mark 12.

 

[mjrhealth]

So you believe the Virgin birth? Good
What about Joseph being the father of Jesus?

When will you stop with the stupidity, is you whole life to drag people away from Christ and put them into prison, there are enough around doing that, when wi lyou turn away from mens fables and pursue after Christ teh one who is teh truth.

Mat 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

as so many religious people do, Fables, make it up as you go.

 

[theefaith]

yes really. there is no trinity passage in the bible, rome invented it hundreds of years later. those are some great passages you posted but none teach a trinity which is why it wasnt a thing at the time. if any of those passages taught a trinity then thre would be no need for the doctrine. we are commanded not to steal in the 10 commandments, why is there not a doctrine on stealing, because dont steal is a plain teaching.
a trinity teaching would be Jesus calling together the disciples and plainly,clearly, explaining to them the the three persons and co equality of the three persons.
Jews have never believed in a trinity, they believe the Most High is one, not a trinity one. Jesus agrees with the Jewish view in Mark 12.

the Christian church also believes the most high is one, one divine nature three persons
Just as there persons on earth share one human nature but are three distinct persons

I gave you scripture
There is also the apostles creed the nicene creed and the athanasius creed look them up they are historic Christian teaching

 

[jaybird]

the Christian church also believes the most high is one, one divine nature three persons
Just as there persons on earth share one human nature but are three distinct persons

I gave you scripture
There is also the apostles creed the nicene creed and the athanasius creed look them up they are historic Christian teaching

the Jewish "one" and the trinity "one" are two completely different things. Jesus agrees with the Jewish one and not the trinity in Mark 12.
the scriptures you posted do not teach a trinity.

Matt 3:16 is the baptism of Jesus, there is no teaching on the Most High is made of three persons and the three persons are co equal. thats an assumption read into the passage.