Virgin Mary Had Other Children After Jesus

[Taken]

WHY??
I'm not the one making this false claim - YOU are.

The onus is on YOU to prove it . . .

Dude, YOU have PROVED you LIE.

Your own signature: reveals your INTENT is to be ON this Forum to Call people LIARS, who DO NOT agree with you and your Catholic beliefs.

Exposing anti-Catholic lies online for 17 years . . .

Your own posts reveal anyone who does Not agree with your belief and Catholic Doctrine;
Are Wrong:
Are Dishonest:
Arr Lying:
Are Liars:

It is Clear you are Anti-Every Religous Belief that IS NOT in your Catholic Doctrine.

Nobody cares! Non-Catholics DO NOT Follow Catholic Doctrine...DO NOT Yield to YOUR Catholic pope, DO NOT CARE what YOU Believe, DO NOT accept you as "Their" Bread of Life or Teacher in Spiritual matters.

Non-Catholics DO NOT, BELIEVE, Your Catholic Doctrine...
Regardless of How many times YOU...
Call them Wrong...
Call them Untruthful...
Call them Dishonest...
Think you are Exposing Liars!

You implying the "Catholic Church" has the Supreme and Only path to Christ's Salvation is though Catholicism is Laughable.

And your greatest method of Lying, is YOUR your Dishonest game of Posting YOUR OWN WORDS...and DISHONESTLY CLAIMING... it is what Another person has SAID!

No, I do not have to prove you Lie...YOU have already accomplished that yourself.
People who have engaged in conversation already know, others can read through your posts if they choose...and you can keep asking for proof, be given it, and deny it, per your usual...

 

[Joseph77]

Your own signature: reveals your INTENT is to be ON this Forum to Call people LIARS, who DO NOT agree with you and your Catholic beliefs.

Thanks for that simply clarity.
On the internet, and in life, they are not usually so vocal about calling everyone else liars, but they cannot go and follow anyone else because their accepted hierarchy (what they accepted, willingly or wittingly or not)
does not permit it, unless as a deception to infiltrate other groups.

 

[Joseph77]

When God Laughs, yes, it is at those plans of the wicked who are opposed to Him, as written.

You implying the "Catholic Church" has the Supreme and Only path to Christ's Salvation is though Catholicism is Laughable.

 

[Taken]

Thanks for that simply clarity.
On the internet, and in life, they are not usually so vocal about calling everyone else liars, but they cannot go and follow anyone else because their accepted hierarchy (what they accepted, willingly or wittingly or not)
does not permit it, unless as a deception to infiltrate other groups.

Agree.

Having a conversation with a Catholic can be tricky, in that, Any mention of CHURCH, or DOCTRINE, ROCK, INTERESSORY, (for example) has one meaning to a Catholic and a Different meaning to Others.

I believe that is called "Jargon"...
Taking a Defined word, and "Redefining" the "meaning" of the word ( to mean something else within the "perimeter" of a particular organization.)

Catholics do that;
Gangs do that;
Teens do that;
Governments do that;
Etc.

A conversation without a fixed agreement on the meaning of pertinent words of the topic...is fruitless.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[reformed1689]

Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins. 22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. 24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

The angel said nothing about Mary to remain a virgin after the birth of Jesus, but scripture testified that Joseph knew Mary intimately after the birth of Jesus, meaning he had sex with his wife. We see this in reference to Adam in the O.T. in regards to Cain & later, Seth.

Genesis 4:1And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.

Genesis 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

Some of the children of Mary were named when Jesus came into His own country & at the cross.

Matthew 13:54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? 56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Now some may take the above verses as saying that it did not really say that Jesus's mother was the mother of His brethren & sisters, but we go to the cross for that confirmation.

Matthew 27:55 And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him. 56 Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedees children.

Mark 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

So Matthew 27:56 & Mark 15:40 proves that Mary was the mother of James & Joses and other children and not just Jesus in Matthew 13:54.

Also, when Joseph fled with Mary & the child, Jesus, into Egypt, no other children were present. When they had to register for the census, again, no other children were present. When they had to hide from Herod's son, they moved where Jesus was known as a Nazarene. So the children of Mary were born after Jesus was born in Jesus's country.

Joseph married Mary for the purpose of building a family. If Mary was to remain a virgin, the angel would have said so plainly and let Joseph put her away privately. The whole point of marriage is the two shall become one flesh. God would not perform that marriage if Mary was to remain a virgin, because that would go back on His word for what marriage is about.

Mary was a good wife to Joseph and not just a good mother to Jesus, but to her other children as well.

So it is a false teaching, a false witness of Mary, and a lie for saying the virgin Mary remained a virgin after marrying Joseph.

Of course, without question.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Nope I suggest you go back and read post #610.

I took it up with God and he didn't see it your way. for a gift is, ... well let him, God himself tell you, Romans 11:29 "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance". God said he's no "Indian giver", to use a pharse. so that answer you gave, God just muted it.

who told you that falsehood? Father is a title, I have it and many more has it, even the devil, he has that title also, the "Father of Lies". the same goes for son, a TITLE, which leaves the ONE TRUE PERSON, JESUS, the Holy Spirit. who holds both titles of "Father and Son.... so you struck out there.

which is another ERROR, now just to show you, lets take your first scripture on your list, Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth". NOW THIS, THE VERY NEXT VERSE. Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them".

OK, BreadOfLife, how did God go from "US", and "OUR" to "HIS", and "HIM"? well that's bible. but well let the Lord Jesus, who cannot lie answer it for us, listen. while the Lord Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees concerning divorcement, he said this, Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female", see it BreadOfLife, "he" which is a single person designation. and now "HEAR" this, it was the Lord Jesus "he" himself who made them... lol... say what? yes, because as the diversity of himself, he G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') himself while in flesh. that eliminates any "separate" or second "person" lie, as you once said had roles to play. so that's strike #3. .... you're out.

now let's address Isaiah 63:5 and find out who the Son is. "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me". God's "OWN" arm? lets have a look see into the scriptures,
Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? (READ THAT AGAIN).
Isaiah 53:2 "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him". HOLD the press. God's OWN arm is "he"

Isaiah 53:3 "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Isaiah 53:4 "Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isaiah 53:5 "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

well, well, well, God's OWN are is him, him to come in flesh as the "Son". man this is too easy. the bible plainly states, Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
Who has believed? as in the parble of the sower, Luke 8:12 "Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved". oops there it is, but Isaiah said, "Who hath believed our report?"

now BOL, you say, and I quote,

so do these bible scriptures line up with three person? ... NO. for the Son is God himself in Flesh. supportive scripture, Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us". and John 4:24a states God is "A" Spirit, one Spirit, so, Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his". So, BREAD, is the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ two separate Spirits or the same ONE Spirit. and if you say the same Spirit, then Christ is the Father, if you say it's the same Spirit.

Looking to hear your answer.

PICJAG.

Your entire confused post is based on the fact that you can't comp[rehend that "Him" is just as correct as "Three distinct Persons".

"Him" is His essence (God). The verses you presented aren't saying that we were made in the image of the FATHER - but in HIS (God's) image. As for the "Arm of the Lord" - this is AGAIN referring to GOD - not an individual Person.

YOUR confusion is NOT because of the Scriptural truth about the Trinity - but because of your refusal to accept the Triune Godhead.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Dude, YOU have PROVED you LIE.

Your own signature: reveals your INTENT is to be ON this Forum to Call people LIARS, who DO NOT agree with you and your Catholic beliefs.

Your own posts reveal anyone who does Not agree with your belief and Catholic Doctrine;
Are Wrong:
Are Dishonest:
Arr Lying:
Are Liars:

It is Clear you are Anti-Every Religous Belief that IS NOT in your Catholic Doctrine.

Nobody cares! Non-Catholics DO NOT Follow Catholic Doctrine...DO NOT Yield to YOUR Catholic pope, DO NOT CARE what YOU Believe, DO NOT accept you as "Their" Bread of Life or Teacher in Spiritual matters.

Non-Catholics DO NOT, BELIEVE, Your Catholic Doctrine...
Regardless of How many times YOU...
Call them Wrong...
Call them Untruthful...
Call them Dishonest...
Think you are Exposing Liars!

You implying the "Catholic Church" has the Supreme and Only path to Christ's Salvation is though Catholicism is Laughable.

And your greatest method of Lying, is YOUR your Dishonest game of Posting YOUR OWN WORDS...and DISHONESTLY CLAIMING... it is what Another person has SAID!

No, I do not have to prove you Lie...YOU have already accomplished that yourself.
People who have engaged in conversation already know, others can read through your posts if they choose...and you can keep asking for proof, be given it, and deny it, per your usual...

Once again - I only accuse those who LIE of lying.
My signature reflects this.

As I have admonished you MANY times in the past - just don't lie - and I won't have to expose and embarrass you.
It's really that simple . . .

 

[Joseph77]

Once again - I only accuse those who LIE of lying.
My signature reflects this.

Not truth.
You admit you accuse others of lying.

You THINK they lie.

God says otherwise.

SO you admit calling God a liar, and repudiating His messengers. This brings a curse with it, life and death, serious.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Not truth.
You admit you accuse others of lying.

You THINK they lie.

God says otherwise.

SO you admit calling God a liar, and repudiating His messengers. This brings a curse with it, life and death, serious.

Unless you can tell me where I am wrong when I accused somebody of lying - your post is just another example of the usual hot wind blown by the anti-Catholics around here . . .

 

[Taken]

Once again - I only accuse those who LIE of lying.
My signature reflects this.

As I have admonished you MANY times in the past - just don't lie - and I won't have to expose and embarrass you.
It's really that simple . . .

Dude, your Beliefs and Sources for those Beliefs are Not everyone else's Beliefs or Sources.

"You claiming" Beliefs out of your thoughts and Words out of your mouth APPLIES to others Beliefs and Words...When the person themselves "claimed" no such thing...
Is your Lies.

You patting "yourself on the back", for trying to stuff your words in an others mouth, and claiming "you""have taught them, have exposed them, have admonished them, have embarrassed them"...is a glaring and unpleasant reflection of "your" self-centered
Arrogance.

When the FACT is the ONLY thing you have taught me, is to place more emphasis on the Thankfulness of NOT EVER being a part of your Catholic CULT!

You are here to fill the role of A TEMPTER, and not astute enough to Know, your TEMPTING ... has been REJECTED...and your continual TRYING is but a comedy of Errors!

So go back to your business of making and plastering yourself with blue ribbons, inflating your pride and ego...it has zero effect on me..but to occasionally Laugh.

 

[Taken]

Unless you can tell me where I am wrong when I accused somebody of lying - your post is just another example of the usual hot wind blown by the anti-Catholics around here . . .

You HAVE been told and Shown...and you simply DENY it.

You Speak Lies FOR Others.
You have been asked AND Told, to Stop Speaking "your Lies" ...for Others.
You Don't STOP.

Sheesh!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Dude, your Beliefs and Sources for those Beliefs are Not everyone else's Beliefs or Sources.

"You claiming" Beliefs out of your thoughts and Words out of your mouth APPLIES to others Beliefs and Words...When the person themselves "claimed" no such thing...
Is your Lies.

You patting "yourself on the back", for trying to stuff your words in an others mouth, and claiming "you""have taught them, have exposed them, have admonished them, have embarrassed them"...is a glaring and unpleasant reflection of "your" self-centered
Arrogance.

When the FACT is the ONLY thing you have taught me, is to place more emphasis on the Thankfulness of NOT EVER being a part of your Catholic CULT!

You are here to fill the role of A TEMPTER, and not astute enough to Know, your TEMPTING ... has been REJECTED...and your continual TRYING is but a comedy of Errors!

So go back to your business of making and plastering yourself with blue ribbons, inflating your pride and ego...it has zero effect on me..but to occasionally Laugh.

When an ignorant anti-Catholic like yourself or someone else makes ridiculous, unsubstantiated claims like:
Catholics "worship" Mary.
They "Worship" idols

That's when I accuse you of lying because it IS a lie.
Now - if an ignorant anti-Catholic ;like yourself or someone else tells me that that hate the Catholic Church - I won't accuse you of "lying" because you're telling the truth.

See the difference??

 

[101G]

Your entire confused post is based on the fact that you can't comp[rehend that "Him" is just as correct as "Three distinct Persons".

that's the best you can come up with?

"Him" is His essence (God). The verses you presented aren't saying that we were made in the image of the FATHER - but in HIS (God's) image. As for the "Arm of the Lord" - this is AGAIN referring to GOD - not an individual Person.

ERROR again, His essence (God). is not a separate person. listen SCRIPTURE, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". here "Form" is NATURE, and the NATURE of God is Spirit, for the Greek Word "Form" is
G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313
now the scripture states "EQUAL" ..... "WITH" ..... God. and God said no one is equal with HIM, listen, Isaiah 40:25 "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One" and this, Isaiah 46:5 "To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?". so no one is equal with him in NATURE, now persons,

knowing that in John 1:1 you as a believer in the trinity, say the WORD is a separate "PERSON" from God, whom you calls the Father here in John 1:1 correct. ok if that's true, then reconcile John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24. and then we will have resolve the "PERSONS". and if it the same person that "essence" lie falls also.

so I'll be looking for your answer on John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24.

PICJAG.

 

[Joseph77]

Unless you can tell me where I am wrong when I accused somebody of lying - your post is just another example of the usual hot wind blown by the anti-Catholics around here . . .

No.
When and if you are wrong, it doesn't matter what I say. When and if you accuse someone of lying, and they did not lie, that is on you. It doesn't matter to me , unless you 'stir up the water' to create more problems and to propagate the false gospel more.
Like you did just now? Here>>>
You;re deceived if you believe that the catholics did not worship mary and commit daily idolatry.
This was very common knowledge, by religious and by non-religious folk for many centuries. No question about it, no one questioned it, until some were enlightened and set free and repented of it.
Lately, for a few years, decades, or longer, the 'patter' / spin/ of catholic news and from them, had changed the way they talk about it, because it is seen as a problem to let outsiders know what they do, but their hearts are still far from truth, apart and separate from God, if they practice official catholicism as done since approx the 3rd or 4th century.

Catholics "worship" Mary.
They "Worship" idols

That's when I accuse you of lying because it IS a lie.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You HAVE been told and Shown...and you simply DENY it.

You Speak Lies FOR Others.
You have been asked AND Told, to Stop Speaking "your Lies" ...for Others.
You Don't STOP.

Sheesh!

And if you can't SHOW me - then you're simply lying again . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

that's the best you can come up with?

ERROR again, His essence (God). is not a separate person. listen SCRIPTURE, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". here "Form" is NATURE, and the NATURE of God is Spirit, for the Greek Word "Form" is
G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313
now the scripture states "EQUAL" ..... "WITH" ..... God. and God said no one is equal with HIM, listen, Isaiah 40:25 "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One" and this, Isaiah 46:5 "To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?". so no one is equal with him in NATURE, now persons,

knowing that in John 1:1 you as a believer in the trinity, say the WORD is a separate "PERSON" from God, whom you calls the Father here in John 1:1 correct. ok if that's true, then reconcile John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24. and then we will have resolve the "PERSONS". and if it the same person that "essence" lie falls also.

so I'll be looking for your answer on John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24.

PICJAG.

Can you even read??
Apparently NOT . . .

I never stated that Go'd essence was a "Person".
I stated the Trinitarian reality that God is:
- ONE in essence (God)
- THREE distinct Persons.

As for your Scriptural "challenge":
Isaiah 44:24
Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself
This is speaking about God in general.

John 1:3
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
This verse is speaking specifically about the Son.
Not that difficult, sparky . . .

 

[Illuminator]

GINOLJC, to all.
first thanks for your reply. second, you said this, "The Three Divine Persons share the same substance, so they are not separate spirits". correct, which he never said, but three persons, which I'm after... "PERSON". now since you and I know this, may I aske you a question that eliminate any persons. question, is this the same PERSON, listen carefully. John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made". as you said, "you and All Christians, Protestant, Orthodox and Catholic, accept the verdicts of the Councils of Nicae, Ephesus, Constantinople, and Chalcedon". and don't all of you agree that this is the Lord JESUS here in verse 3 of John chapter 1. and you say Jesus is the son correct, a separate "PERSON" from the Father correct. now this, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself".

ok Illuminator, lets shine some light on the subject here. is this the same person, here in Isaiah 44:24 and John 1:3 who made all things YES or NO?.

WARNING, WARNING, WARNING, also note that the Person in Isaiah 44:24 said that he was "alone", and "by himself"........ meaning he didn't go through anyone to create anything, he was alone and by himself, meaning only he was there, ONE PERSON. now it's your choice, if you say no it's not the same person, then you have two "CREATORS" ...... or if you say yes, then there are no three person and the Lord Jesus is the Father who created it all......

so I'll be looking for your answer, and then we see if the fellows at the Councils of Nicae or anywhere else is correct on the trinity....

PICJAG.

Is this an admission you are at odds with all of Christianity.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No.
When and if you are wrong, it doesn't matter what I say. When and if you accuse someone of lying, and they did not lie, that is on you. It doesn't matter to me , unless you 'stir up the water' to create more problems and to propagate the false gospel more.
Like you did just now? Here>>>
You;re deceived if you believe that the catholics did not worship mary and commit daily idolatry.
This was very common knowledge, by religious and by non-religious folk for many centuries. No question about it, no one questioned it, until some were enlightened and set free and repented of it.
Lately, for a few years, decades, or longer, the 'patter' / spin/ of catholic news and from them, had changed the way they talk about it, because it is seen as a problem to let outsiders know what they do, but their hearts are still far from truth, apart and separate from God, if they practice official catholicism as done since approx the 3rd or 4th century.

Sooooooo., there's "NO question" about it that Catholics worship Mary and idols??
Unless you can show me the teaching from the Catholic Church - then you are lying.

This is what I'm talking about when I accuse people here of "lying".
Ignorant people like YOU who perpetuate falsehoods without producing ONE SHRED of evidence . . .

 

[Joseph77]

THere has never been a question about this. God has always known, and God reveals this to all of those in Christ Jesus.

Sooooooo., there's "NO question" about it that Catholics worship Mary and idols??

Even catholics, for centuries, did not try to hide this. They were told it was okay, they saw all their family and friends and priests and bishops practicing this, and thought no problem, and said so.

 

[101G]

Can you even read??
Apparently NOT . . .

I never stated that Go'd essence was a "Person".
I stated the Trinitarian reality that God is:
- ONE in essence (God)
- THREE distinct Persons.

As for your Scriptural "challenge":
Isaiah 44:24
Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself
This is speaking about God in general.

John 1:3
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
This verse is speaking specifically about the Son.
Not that difficult, sparky . . .

if it's not difficult, then Lone ranger, (smile), is this the same Person, (WHO IS GOD), in Isaiah 44:24 and John 1:3? YES or NO

PICJAG.