The fact is Robbie, you keep referring to the Bible that you charge as being contradictions. Where did you hear/read about Jesus if not from the Bible? You are DEEPLY confused. Just who is YOUR Jesus???
Walking in love?
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Robbie
New Member
I already told you Ducky... I first heard about Jesus through the mouth of a witness... not by reading a book... nor were they reading a book to me... and as you desperately try to accuse me of something this time by exaggerating what I said about the bible , "Being contradictions" you're just burning yourself man... you're going to have to stand before God one day dude and I honestly ask the Father to forgive you for everything you're doing right now... because I seriously think you don't even realize what you're doing... or know that what you're doing is wrong... but for your own good... stop lying, twisting my words, manipulating, and exaggerating in order to bare false witness against me. May the Lord rebuke you in Love....
Not good enough! You believe in Jesus because someone told you??? Why would you believe him/her?
Robbie
New Member
Because God was in me calling Him to Himself... as Christ said it would be... it's like dude... you try and make yourself out to be the defender of the scriptures... and you don't even hear or see what Christ has been testified in the scriptures as saying... so it ends up that I'm actually defending the scriptures because I'm actually defending what Christ says in them... as you just defend what man says about them with an ego baring false witness and accusing me...
Where did Christ say that? In the Bible? How do you know it's not a contradiction?
I believe those who attack the Bible should be required to justify their beliefs. Do you believe what the Bible says about Jesus? How do you know it's not contradictions?
7angels: it says in the BEGINNING, the word was God and it was with God. In the beginning, there was no Bible. How then can the Bible be God. It cannot.
God is the living God. His abode is not in temples made by the hands of men nor is it in books, but it is in the living temples, earthen vessels. Peter says we are "living stones". Christ says he will make those who are faithfull 'pillars in the house of my Father'. He is building US to be his temple.
We fight over all these things... This thing about contradictions has only led to confusion! I do believe that the Bible is the word of God, in the sense that it is what God has spoken. I do not believe it is flawed. I say the contradictions are real because it talks on two different levels. If you don't agree with that, that's okay with me, it's in a sense a minor point. But the Bible points to the living God.
We are to look to God. We stand upon his promises by FAITH! In looking to him. The whole purpose is not to gather some head knowledge and beliefs, it is to come to a living faith in the living God and to walk in it. Christ in us, and us in Christ.
It is actually quite saddening all the meaningless things i've seen some fight over.
God is the living God. His abode is not in temples made by the hands of men nor is it in books, but it is in the living temples, earthen vessels. Peter says we are "living stones". Christ says he will make those who are faithfull 'pillars in the house of my Father'. He is building US to be his temple.
We fight over all these things... This thing about contradictions has only led to confusion! I do believe that the Bible is the word of God, in the sense that it is what God has spoken. I do not believe it is flawed. I say the contradictions are real because it talks on two different levels. If you don't agree with that, that's okay with me, it's in a sense a minor point. But the Bible points to the living God.
We are to look to God. We stand upon his promises by FAITH! In looking to him. The whole purpose is not to gather some head knowledge and beliefs, it is to come to a living faith in the living God and to walk in it. Christ in us, and us in Christ.
It is actually quite saddening all the meaningless things i've seen some fight over.
Robbie
New Member
Christ didn't say anything in the bible Ducky... Christ said everything with His mouth... and His Words were quoted in written and spoken testimonies to Him... and were later part of what was compiled into the book called the bible... it's not like His Word was without authority till they were put into a book... His Word's were with authority because they are the Word's of God... the authority of His Word wasn't shown by them being quoted in paper and ink... the authority of His Word was shown when with a Word He healed the sick, raised the dead, stopped the wind and the waves... etc...
So your continued insistence that in some way Jesus needed His Words to be quoted in a book to give them authority is ridiculous and dead... Jesus Words have the same authority with or without the book... as they are the Word by which all things were created... they are the Word of God...
So your continued insistence that in some way Jesus needed His Words to be quoted in a book to give them authority is ridiculous and dead... Jesus Words have the same authority with or without the book... as they are the Word by which all things were created... they are the Word of God...
So you're Jesus isn't the Jesus in the Bible. Ok. I ask again, who is your Jesus if not the Jesus of the Bible?
So where do you find Jesus' Words if not in the Bible? How about Paul's letters in the Bible? Are they God's Word?
Robbie
New Member
Ducky... Christ spoke everything He said with His mouth and then was quoted... and then those quotes were printed on paper and ink long afterwards... are you really that lost that you can't understand that... He didn't say anything in the bible... He said it with His mouth... can you even look past your dead religion for a second long enough to see that?
His Words being in the bible isn't what gives them authority... His Word's coming directly from God is what gives them authority... and that authority isn't shown by them being printed in a book... that authority is shown by them raising the dead, healing the sick, stopping the wind and the waves... etc...
You can't hear or see that because you're blinded by your religion... I pray the scales fall from your eyes...
Jesus said all of heaven and earth could pass away and His Words wouldn't... yet you say without a book they don't exist...
You are greatly and I mean greatly mistaken...
His Words being in the bible isn't what gives them authority... His Word's coming directly from God is what gives them authority... and that authority isn't shown by them being printed in a book... that authority is shown by them raising the dead, healing the sick, stopping the wind and the waves... etc...
You can't hear or see that because you're blinded by your religion... I pray the scales fall from your eyes...
Jesus said all of heaven and earth could pass away and His Words wouldn't... yet you say without a book they don't exist...
You are greatly and I mean greatly mistaken...
Ok. Your Jesus isn't the Jesus of the Bible. That's what I said. So who is your Jesus? Why do you even call him Jesus? I don't think you have any idea.
Now about Paul's letters in the Bible?
Prentis, I know where you are coming from.
I think that essentially many believers that argue are often not that far apart. However, our language tends to fail us. I know there are many times that no matter how I state something, I'm going to come off as too liberal in my theology or too conservative in other places. I've always thought of it as the polarization of an argument.
Take the whole love and live juxtaposed against following the Word (the Bible). I don't think people who follow the Bible closely are all legalists and I don't think all people who espouse love are total left wing liberal theologians. I think that's why there are many Old Testament references to not straying too far to the right or too far to the left. Different strokes for different folks as the saying goes...
I think many of the bad Christian arguments made out there tend to be made by people who love people and desire for sincere truth. However, other arguments are made in a desire to be right or to force someone into a corner for self-glorification. Unfortunately, just like in other aspects of life, we view compromise in a negative light. We often see compromise as compromising the integrity of the Bible. That does not mean there are instances where that can really be the case. We don't really allow for the understanding that we have to work through something as large and as complicated as the Bible and we might be wrong sometimes. Now don't get me wrong, we should not paralyze ourself with inaction, but at the same time we are told to be ready to give account in the Bible.
The fact remains that the only people who repent for punishment or a "harsh" tone do so at the literal/metaphorical hand of God. As flawed humans, we really have to take an introspective look at ourselves and how we come across.
I'm reminded of Colossians 4 which has come up so much lately for me:
Colossians 4:3-6
And pray for us, too, that God may open a door for our message, so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I am in chains. Pray that I may proclaim it clearly, as I should. Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.
I'd say that unfortunately 4/5 conversations that happen here on CB and even in life are not tempered with grace and probably way too much salt. I look at salt as flavor (character that jazzes up the discussion, etc.) Recall that grace is totally unmerited favor. Jesus extended grace to us by dying for our sins. We have to do the same when we talk to others about Jesus. On one hand we do not need to compromise core convictions like Jeus being the way - period - and other foundational truths, but at the other we have to be cautious of how we act towards outsiders (people who are not Christians). Think about it like a business. Even if the customer is a little unruly, rude, and ticked, a representative for a business is still expected to keep his or her cool and represent the company in a positive manner. Why would it be any different for God? It seems many Christians can be totally nice from 9-5, but you catch them at the wrong time otherwise and whew boy... Jesus was patient with you and everyone else. Just look at Paul! You don't think it grieved God's heart to see him persecture Christians? Do you not think it hurt God's heart at least a little for Paul to stand there and soak up Stephen's destruction? Yet he struck him down not before all this happened, but along a road in the midst of his persecuting.
I'm just reminded of Acts 17 where Paul used the media of that time's culture to convey something. I think we have a widely-felt problem in Christianity of not considering that God's message remains relevant even though some different examples or perhaps even a different focal point exists.
Is not God so big that he encompasses great love AND yet still has a sense of justice that will not tolerate error?
I think that essentially many believers that argue are often not that far apart. However, our language tends to fail us. I know there are many times that no matter how I state something, I'm going to come off as too liberal in my theology or too conservative in other places. I've always thought of it as the polarization of an argument.
Take the whole love and live juxtaposed against following the Word (the Bible). I don't think people who follow the Bible closely are all legalists and I don't think all people who espouse love are total left wing liberal theologians. I think that's why there are many Old Testament references to not straying too far to the right or too far to the left. Different strokes for different folks as the saying goes...
I think many of the bad Christian arguments made out there tend to be made by people who love people and desire for sincere truth. However, other arguments are made in a desire to be right or to force someone into a corner for self-glorification. Unfortunately, just like in other aspects of life, we view compromise in a negative light. We often see compromise as compromising the integrity of the Bible. That does not mean there are instances where that can really be the case. We don't really allow for the understanding that we have to work through something as large and as complicated as the Bible and we might be wrong sometimes. Now don't get me wrong, we should not paralyze ourself with inaction, but at the same time we are told to be ready to give account in the Bible.
The fact remains that the only people who repent for punishment or a "harsh" tone do so at the literal/metaphorical hand of God. As flawed humans, we really have to take an introspective look at ourselves and how we come across.
I'm reminded of Colossians 4 which has come up so much lately for me:
Colossians 4:3-6
And pray for us, too, that God may open a door for our message, so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I am in chains. Pray that I may proclaim it clearly, as I should. Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.
I'd say that unfortunately 4/5 conversations that happen here on CB and even in life are not tempered with grace and probably way too much salt. I look at salt as flavor (character that jazzes up the discussion, etc.) Recall that grace is totally unmerited favor. Jesus extended grace to us by dying for our sins. We have to do the same when we talk to others about Jesus. On one hand we do not need to compromise core convictions like Jeus being the way - period - and other foundational truths, but at the other we have to be cautious of how we act towards outsiders (people who are not Christians). Think about it like a business. Even if the customer is a little unruly, rude, and ticked, a representative for a business is still expected to keep his or her cool and represent the company in a positive manner. Why would it be any different for God? It seems many Christians can be totally nice from 9-5, but you catch them at the wrong time otherwise and whew boy... Jesus was patient with you and everyone else. Just look at Paul! You don't think it grieved God's heart to see him persecture Christians? Do you not think it hurt God's heart at least a little for Paul to stand there and soak up Stephen's destruction? Yet he struck him down not before all this happened, but along a road in the midst of his persecuting.
I'm just reminded of Acts 17 where Paul used the media of that time's culture to convey something. I think we have a widely-felt problem in Christianity of not considering that God's message remains relevant even though some different examples or perhaps even a different focal point exists.
Is not God so big that he encompasses great love AND yet still has a sense of justice that will not tolerate error?
Robbie
New Member
If you think this is me not talking about Jesus Christ that the scriptures point to Ducky... there's really no point in me talking to you... as you obviously can't even hear or see anything I'm saying...
You can't say the Bible is erroneous and then say you believe in Jesus of the Bible without totally contradicting yourself. You're saying you believe errors.
Now about Paul's letters?
Yes. I agree with much of what you're saying.
I love it in revelation when it says 'Therefore be zealous, and repent'! What? Human understanding puts Zeal and Repentance at opposites. I used to. God was just teaching me lately not to do that.
We have to have a repentant attitude; a contrite heart and ready to break at the words of the Lord. But we have to be zealous at the same time. Now I finally understand it.
That is what love is. Love is so gentle, patient, kind. But love is also zealous for the Lord in that contriteness of heart. We are to be zealous in all humilty.
Humility without zeal can be okay, though it won't be changing things much, that person loves. Zeal without love is a very dangerous thing.
Robbie
New Member
I'm done talking to you about this subject Ducky as your eyes and ears are obviously shut...
As far as the question about Paul... start another thread and I'll share my beliefs about that but I won't share them here.. because my experience so far with people who tend to go in that direction is that they're trying to find reasons to derail the direction of the conversation into a place of accusations... and as of right now I want this understanding to be where I leave it... with this statement... .
Christ spoke everything He said with His mouth and then was quoted... and then those quotes were printed on paper and ink long afterwards... He didn't say anything in the bible... He said it with His mouth... His Words being in the bible isn't what gives them authority... His Word's coming directly from God is what gives them authority... and that authority isn't shown by them being printed in a book... that authority is shown by them raising the dead, healing the sick, stopping the wind and the waves... etc... Jesus said all of heaven and earth could pass away and His Words wouldn't... yet people say that without a book they don't exist... that is to deny the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit the glory they deserve and to say they are dependent on paper and ink for their existence...
As far as the question about Paul... start another thread and I'll share my beliefs about that but I won't share them here.. because my experience so far with people who tend to go in that direction is that they're trying to find reasons to derail the direction of the conversation into a place of accusations... and as of right now I want this understanding to be where I leave it... with this statement... .
Christ spoke everything He said with His mouth and then was quoted... and then those quotes were printed on paper and ink long afterwards... He didn't say anything in the bible... He said it with His mouth... His Words being in the bible isn't what gives them authority... His Word's coming directly from God is what gives them authority... and that authority isn't shown by them being printed in a book... that authority is shown by them raising the dead, healing the sick, stopping the wind and the waves... etc... Jesus said all of heaven and earth could pass away and His Words wouldn't... yet people say that without a book they don't exist... that is to deny the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit the glory they deserve and to say they are dependent on paper and ink for their existence...
I'll help you out:
1 Thessalonians 2:13 (NKJV)
13 For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe.
1 Corinthians 14:37-38 (NKJV)
37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant.
1 Thessalonians 2:13 (NKJV)
13 For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe.
1 Corinthians 14:37-38 (NKJV)
37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant.
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I heard a preacher say once... "Some people have the strangest love!" Yikes! Get it off of me! Thank you!
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