The OP's question "Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation", so the answer of "poppy-cock" means "no".
Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?
- Thread starter Kermos
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The OP's question "Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation", so the answer of "poppy-cock" means "no".
God PROPHESIED that Adam would eat of the tree in "and commanded YHWH God to the man, saying 'Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying'" (Genesis 2:16-17), so there was no way for Adam to avoid doing what God prophesied (Job 42:2). No choice for Adam was indicated in the passage.
Your addition of choice into Genesis 2:16-17 is sin.
BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE FROM THE APOSTLE PAUL.
Despite the Creation account in Genesis 1-3 being silent about man's "will", there exists Apostolic teaching on the matter of man's "will" with regard to the creation account.
Adam did not exercise willpower to disobey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17) for Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, NASB); therefore, Adam did not make a choice, not a willing choice, to eat.
A "choice" by Adam is explicitly excluded by using scripture with scripture referencing, in fact, "the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, KJV), so Adam acted not willingly but rather acted subject to vanity in his eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
"Not willingly" indicates "not choice".
Some people may claim that Paul was referring to a timeframe exclusively after what they call "the fall" (after Adam ate of the tree [Genesis 3:6]), but the continuity of the passage of Romans 8:20-22 must be taken as a whole.
Paul left no room for disputing to the timeframe for which "not willingly" applies, for Paul also wrote "we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now" (Romans 8:22), and the phrase "until now" is the timeframe's most recent limiting factor which memes that all times prior to "now" are included, so "the whole creation" includes the moment after God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life (Genesis 2:7) until Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6); therefore, we can be certain that Paul includes the timeframe that Adam ate of the tree in the travailing/groaning because Paul wrote of all of this in the same passage, i.e. Romans 8:20-22.
Paul includes the "not willingly" (Romans 8:20-22) to apply to the time that Adam ate of the tree (Genesis 3:6).
Beginning is a time reference.
End is a time reference.
Neither Beginning/Alpha nor End/Omega indicates God being outside of time.
There is no scripture that states God is outside of time, so your deception about God watching from eternity as man controls salvation via man's choice toward God is a precept of men resulting in free willians worshiping in vain (Matthew 15:9).
Your statement "Adam made the choice to not obey God" is only supported by your wicked heart (Jeremiah 17:9) because there is no support for your statement in the Word of God.
The original post is rich with the Word of God that demonstrates Adam was not imparted a free will.
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Nothing, absolutely nothing, that God knows will happen can be thwarted by man (Job 42:2); therefore, Adam could not avoid that which God prophesied would happen in God's command to Adam (Genesis 2:16-17).
You do not have two different instances from scripture where God said God foreknew something that failed to occur. You don't even have one.
If you think you have one, then you certainly do not know the Word of God for your god would be a god of failure.
Back onto topic of Adam not being imparted free will AND WHAT THE APOSTLE PAUL HAD TO WRITE ABOUT ADAM.
Despite the Creation account in Genesis 1-3 being silent about man's "will", there exists Apostolic teaching on the matter of man's "will" with regard to the creation account.
Adam did not exercise willpower to disobey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17) for Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, NASB); therefore, Adam did not make a choice, not a willing choice, to eat.
A "choice" by Adam is explicitly excluded by using scripture with scripture referencing, in fact, "the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, KJV), so Adam acted not willingly but rather acted subject to vanity in his eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
"Not willingly" indicates "not choice".
Some people may claim that Paul was referring to a timeframe exclusively after what they call "the fall" (after Adam ate of the tree [Genesis 3:6]), but the continuity of the passage of Romans 8:20-22 must be taken as a whole.
Paul left no room for disputing to the timeframe for which "not willingly" applies, for Paul also wrote "we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now" (Romans 8:22), and the phrase "until now" is the timeframe's most recent limiting factor which memes that all times prior to "now" are included, so "the whole creation" includes the moment after God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life (Genesis 2:7) until Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6); therefore, we can be certain that Paul includes the timeframe that Adam ate of the tree in the travailing/groaning because Paul wrote of all of this in the same passage, i.e. Romans 8:20-22.
Paul includes the "not willingly" (Romans 8:20-22) to apply to the time that Adam ate of the tree (Genesis 3:6).
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In another of your posts, you literally added choice into Genesis 2:16-17 because that is the ONLY way you could force your choose thoughts to appear in the Word of God.
Choice is not in the command (Genesis 2:16-17). A command is in the command. God did not say "since you have the ability to choose" as a precedent to the command, so Adam did not have the ability to choose.
God PROPHESIED Adam would eat of the tree (Genesis 2:17), so there was indication of Adam's ability.
I enjoy logic and linguistics, but you love to corrupt the Word of God, logic, and linguistics.
Despite the Creation account in Genesis 1-3 being silent about man's "will", there exists Apostolic teaching on the matter of man's "will" with regard to the creation account.
Adam did not exercise willpower to disobey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17) for Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, NASB); therefore, Adam did not make a choice, not a willing choice, to eat.
A "choice" by Adam is explicitly excluded by using scripture with scripture referencing, in fact, "the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, KJV), so Adam acted not willingly but rather acted subject to vanity in his eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
“Not willingly” indicates “not free will”.
"Not willingly" indicates "not choice".
Some people may claim that Paul was referring to a timeframe exclusively after what they call "the fall" (after Adam ate of the tree [Genesis 3:6]), but the continuity of the passage of Romans 8:20-22 must be taken as a whole.
Paul left no room for disputing to the timeframe for which "not willingly" applies, for Paul also wrote "we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now" (Romans 8:22), and the phrase "until now" is the timeframe's most recent limiting factor which memes that all times prior to "now" are included, so "the whole creation" includes the moment after God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life (Genesis 2:7) until Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6); therefore, we can be certain that Paul includes the timeframe that Adam ate of the tree in the travailing/groaning because Paul wrote of all of this in the same passage, i.e. Romans 8:20-22.
Paul includes the "not willingly" (Romans 8:20-22) to apply to the time that Adam ate of the tree (Genesis 3:6).
You implicate “choice” into the creation account. Another person implicated that Adam will be the last person on earth. Too many people think that they can implicate whatever they want into scripture, but what you people really are doing is claiming to be a god by implicating in your thoughts and words into the Word of God.
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Stick to scripture, Backlit. You have repeatedly shown difficulty sticking to scripture.
Despite the Creation account in Genesis 1-3 being silent about man's "will", there exists Apostolic teaching on the matter of man's "will" with regard to the creation account.
Adam did not exercise willpower to disobey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17) for Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, NASB); therefore, Adam did not make a choice, not a willing choice, to eat.
A "choice" by Adam is explicitly excluded by using scripture with scripture referencing, in fact, "the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, KJV), so Adam acted not willingly but rather acted subject to vanity in his eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
"Not willingly" indicates "not choice".
Some people may claim that Paul was referring to a timeframe exclusively after what they call "the fall" (after Adam ate of the tree [Genesis 3:6]), but the continuity of the passage of Romans 8:20-22 must be taken as a whole.
Paul left no room for disputing to the timeframe for which "not willingly" applies, for Paul also wrote "we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now" (Romans 8:22), and the phrase "until now" is the timeframe's most recent limiting factor which memes that all times prior to "now" are included, so "the whole creation" includes the moment after God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life (Genesis 2:7) until Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6); therefore, we can be certain that Paul includes the timeframe that Adam ate of the tree in the travailing/groaning because Paul wrote of all of this in the same passage, i.e. Romans 8:20-22.
Paul includes the "not willingly" (Romans 8:20-22) to apply to the time that Adam ate of the tree (Genesis 3:6).
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Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Ezekiel 28:13 You were in Eden, the garden of God. Every kind of precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald. Your mountings and settings were crafted in gold, prepared on the day of your creation.
Back To Genesis it says And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed
Adam Was Declared Good, If Adam choose to know Evil what do you think it would look like, He had a Choice, opening that Door lead to all the evil that is in the world, you have free will to make choices but there are consequences for actions
Oh, then all of a sudden you do not think free will means a person chooses Jesus. Man, your free will definition is all over the place!
There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!
If Free Will does not exist, as you claim, I choose nothing, ever. So I do only what God determined for me to do.
The creation was subjected, yes, after sin entered the world. Not to loss of Free Will, but to decay.
It is subject to something described using the Greek word mataiotēti. This term implies something warped, perverse, sickly, weak, or false. This futility—or "frustration"—came long ago, when sin entered into the world. God did not create the world this way, and creation itself did not choose this. The trees and streams and animals and sky did not choose an existence of frustration. Rather, God subjected creation to frustration in response to Adam's choice to sin in the garden of Eden.
Free will isn't only about choosing Jesus.
"It means: the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion."
That can include everything from what color socks you wear to your eternal destiny.
You are adding "choice" there into scripture at Genesis 2:19.
The verse does NOT state "to see what he would choose to call them".
Furthermore, the Hebrew word for choose is NOT therein.
Scripture expresses an action with "call" in Genesis 2:19.
There is the work of the mind, that is, thoughts of Adam in naming the beasts and birds exposed in Genesis 2:19; therefore, God displays the cognitive and communicative ability of Adam.
Adam called the beasts the name in his mind. No choosing required.
Furthermore, Adam was NOT choosing God.
I see the Truth (John 14:6) by God's grace, and by the Power of Gid I see you add to scripture, and God has me here warning you of your impending eternal doom for calling the Word of God a lie.
You add to scripture in your flesh. Eve added to the Word, too (Genesis 3:3, "touch it" is not in Genesis 2:16-17). You and Eve and Adam have flesh in common, and "the flesh desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. For these are opposed to one another" (Galatians 5:17).
Rotflol.
Where did the names come from?
Do you choose what to name a child? A cat, a dog?
Or do the names just fall into your mind?
You are adding "choice" there into scripture at Genesis 2:19.
The verse does NOT state "to see what he would choose to call them".
Furthermore, the Hebrew word for choose is NOT therein.
Scripture expresses an action with "call" in Genesis 2:19.
There is the work of the mind, that is, thoughts of Adam in naming the beasts and birds exposed in Genesis 2:19; therefore, God displays the cognitive and communicative ability of Adam.
Adam called the beasts the name in his mind. No choosing required.
Furthermore, Adam was NOT choosing God.
Backlit, stick with scripture, and stop using examples tjat show off your flesh, and study Paul's writing in Romans 8:20-22 that God had me present to you im this post a little earlier today.
I see the Truth (John 14:6) by God's grace, and by the Power of Gid I see you add to scripture, and God has me here warning you of your impending eternal doom for calling the Word of God a lie.
You add to scripture in your flesh. Eve added to the Word, too (Genesis 3:3, "touch it" is not in Genesis 2:16-17). You and Eve and Adam have flesh in common, and "the flesh desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. For these are opposed to one another" (Galatians 5:17).
I agree. There was no offer. For salvation is not something that God offers to fallen man, but which comes out from His love. Salvation is grace and is by grace.
However, that does not mean God had not given man the ability and freedom to choose according to his will. The commandments of God to Adam presents a choice to Adam. He could either choose to obey or not obey God. Now that only shows that Adam had to choose. And his choice, needless to say, depends on his will. As such, Adam is a creature endowed by God as having his own will.
Tong
R3780
Of course not, nor did I say that.
Freewill is simply the ability to MAKE choices.
Adam defying God, is simply an example of a choice Adam made, that demonstrates Adam had freewill will.
Every man has the 'OPTION' / FREEWILL to choose 'God' or not.
Choosing God, is effected by a man's FREEWILL....not Force.
Heartfully Choosing God, is not stripped away.
It is KEPT, intact, by the Power of God.
Satan told the woman, what is called, a (half truth, half lie). A lie mixed in with a truth, becomes a LIE. The Cunningness of Satan, was to tell the woman, (a half truth, mixed with a lie), and the woman NOT YET, have the full knowledge of God, fell for Satan's trickery.
(AND WHY, the "WEAK" are those without Gods full knowledge.
AND WHY, the "WEAK" are vunerable to be Tricked.
AND WHY, Scripture teaches, to "PROTECT" the "WEAK", until they have LEARNED the WHOLE Truth, and can "PROTECT" themselves, by recognizing and rejecting cunning trickery, of half truths mixed with lies.)
God said to eat of that tree MEANT, they would DIE, "that day".
(Although they were created and made in ADULT bodies, they were as BABES, in the beginning of Learning. They obviously could SEE their Living Flesh Bodies, and after EATING, their bodies remained Living.
What they had not YET learned, was, "that day", they ate, was the day, their (unseen) SOULS "spiritually died", separated from God, because of the FREEWILL (the choice), their Flesh Bodies Chose to make.
... The meant, their SOULS, then required...
Forgiveness From God...and their flesh Separation From God.
...Because they were "BABES" in knowledge;
They were forgiven...and we know this, BECAUSE, God covered the sin of their flesh, with animal skins.
We know, God forgave the sin of their soul,
Because for God to cover their flesh with animal skins, an animals blood had to be shed. It was the animals blood sacrificed, poured out, for their souls forgiveness.
...And we know, in that day; covering of Flesh sin and Forgiveness of Soul sin, was "TEMPORARY"...
And the "punishment" of Separation from God was "TEMPORARY"...
And continuing of the "TEMPORARY"... sin (defying God)...and "TEMPORARY" punishment...and "TEMPORARY" forgiveness via Animal blood....Continued FOR centuries.
....It was nearly 4,000 years, for men to hear, learn, practice, FREELY experiencing being WITH GOD, and FREELY experiencing being WITHOUT God.....and TEACHING, and TESTIFYING to other men and children...
OF
The Blessings for being WITH God...
AND
The Hardships for being WITHOUT God.)
The "arrival of Jesus", 2,000 years ago, presented a NEW OFFERING to mankind.
A PERMANENT forgiveness, via Jesus' BLOOD.
A PERMANENT covering of mans flesh, via Gods indwelling Spirit.
While the Permanent forgiveness, and Permanent covering IS Permanent "for some"....
People are still being born everyday "BABES",
Not yet having full knowledge. They are the "weak", and must be "protected", until they Hear and Learn the WHOLE Truth.
And millions of men, fully Adult, have rejected to bother to LEARN the truth.
Freewill, is every mans option. To hear or not. To believe or not. To trust God or not. To commit to God or not.
Every mans FLESH BODY will DIE, SHALL die, MUST die....and Every mans soul IS spiritually separated From God; and it IS every man who must Freely Choose, to have his SOUL, SAVED unto LIFE, by the Power of God...or choose to have his SOUL, REMAIN separated FROM God.
Error. There is a record.
Gen 2:
[16] And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
[17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it:
Gen 3:
[11] And he said...Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
Gen 3:
[12] And the man said...I did eat.
Never said it did.
Adam's CREATION was Gods WILL, not Adams.
Adam's MADE alive, was Gods WILL, not Adams.
Adam being PUT in the Garden, was Gods WILL, not Adam's.
Adam Eating of the forbidden Tree, was Adam's WILL, not Gods.
ALL irrelevant, to try and guess a timeframe.
* God CREATED and MADE the male and female
* And God;
called "THEM" ... man and woman
Called "THEM" ... husband and wife
Called "THEM".... ADAM.
"The man, named the woman Eve".
(CREATED and MADE...two different things).
Glory to God,
Taken
Disagree.
Fallen man is precisely who God Offers Salvation.
Fallen man is precisely WHO God Saves.
Glory to God,
Taken
It is mankind that has fallen in Adam whom God saves. And that is because He loves mankind.
When Adam and Eve sinned, having disobeyed God, when they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, what did God do? Did He offer to save them?
But if you can show scriptures that effectively says that God offered salvation, please do so that I may consider it.
Tong
R3781
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Kermos would have us all believe that because Adam did not have free will, he was therefore following the will of God in bringing the entire human race into sin, rebellion, and condemnation. So God Himself instigated a rebellion against Himself and His laws, in order that He could condemn 90% of the population of all history and confine them eternally to anguish and pain.
It's like me raising a child, training him to be a thief, then punishing that same child for the success of obeying my training.
Kermos arrogantly calls those who disagree with this nonsense guilty of "adding to scripture", and says they are in danger of eternal damnation because they don't believe God's word. Yet they have no choice to their unbelief according to Kermos, because no-one has a choice in the faith, or lack of faith, so again, those who disagree with Kermos' philosophy are going to be punished by God for obediently succumbing to the way God makes them.
What an arrogant disgusting mischaracterisation of the nature of God. Kermos should be ashamed of himself. Except according to his own theology such, whatever he believes in, is because God willed it. So Kermos himself denies his own ability to change his mind. What a warped nonsense theology.
It's like me raising a child, training him to be a thief, then punishing that same child for the success of obeying my training.
Kermos arrogantly calls those who disagree with this nonsense guilty of "adding to scripture", and says they are in danger of eternal damnation because they don't believe God's word. Yet they have no choice to their unbelief according to Kermos, because no-one has a choice in the faith, or lack of faith, so again, those who disagree with Kermos' philosophy are going to be punished by God for obediently succumbing to the way God makes them.
What an arrogant disgusting mischaracterisation of the nature of God. Kermos should be ashamed of himself. Except according to his own theology such, whatever he believes in, is because God willed it. So Kermos himself denies his own ability to change his mind. What a warped nonsense theology.
When people start spouting such nonsense you can be sure that they are simply pushing an agenda. That "not" and "but" do not belong in this sentence. And that is clear from John 3:16.
So what does the Bible proclaim? "Salvation is something which God offers to fallen man BECAUSE it comes from His love."
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