Was Jesus a spirit being before coming to earth as a human?

[Robert Gwin]

Indeed, it would be good to retrace your teachings and make a change.

Here is a brief explanation of "I am" from God's word:

"I am" is a term used by God to identify Himself, which began here:

Exodus 3:14
And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”​

...And then Jesus, not causally as you or I might use the term, but when specifically identifying Himself, said the same (just to name a few):

John 8:18
I am One who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness of Me.”

John 8:23
And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.

John 8:58
Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”​

I assure you Scott, I am not God. I am is a figure of speech in the English language that is used regularly by myself, yourself, and as you point out Jesus, and even Jehovah. By the way, when Jehovah said I am at Ex 3:14 what question was He answering, and what was His name He revealed to Moses sir?

 

[keithr]

God has confused all language, thus a word study as you have presented it is of no value. That is not spiritual discernment, which is the only means of knowing the truth. That alone should make you doubtful.

The only person to mention spiritual discernment was Paul, in 1 Corinthians 2:14. Yet Paul did not believe Jesus was God, as is evident from his writings, e.g.:

1 Corinthians 8:6 (WEB):

yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.​

Romans 15:6 (WEB):

that with one accord you may with one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.​

Romans 1 (WEB):

(1) Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, set apart for the Good News of God,
(3) concerning his Son, who was born of the offspring of David according to the flesh,
(4) who was declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord,
(5) through whom we received grace and apostleship, for obedience of faith among all the nations, for his name’s sake;
(6) among whom you are also called to belong to Jesus Christ;
(7) to all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.​

2 Corinthians 1:3 (WEB):

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort;​

Colossians 1:3 (ESV):

We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,​

Hebrews chapter 1. Colossians chapter 1.

Nonetheless, you are not connecting all the dots. Perhaps this will help you get off your dependence on confused language: Pay particularly close attention to John 8:18.

Here is a brief explanation of "I am" from God's word:

"I am" is a term used by God to identify Himself, which began here:

Exodus 3:14
And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”​

...And then Jesus, not causally as you or I might use the term, but when specifically identifying Himself, said the same (just to name a few):

That's hardly an explanation of the simple words "I am" being used in straightforward sentences that don't need explanation of those words! You have been confused by your dependence on "confused language" into thinking that Jesus using the words "I am" was him declaring himself to be God - it clearly was not! The Hebrew word translated as "I am" in Exodus 3:14 means "to exist"; the two Greek words in the New Testament mean "I am", or "I have existed". God's name YHVH has been translated as "the existing One" (Online Bible Hebrew Lexicon). You're the one relying on translations into different "confused languages" to try and make a meaning that is not there!

John 8:18
I am One who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness of Me.”​

Put it in context. The previous verse says, "It’s also written in your law that the testimony of two people is valid". So Jesus is simply saying that the Father (God) was one witness and that Jesus himself is another witness, therefore there are two witnesses so Jesus' testimony is valid. It's absurd to think that Jesus was trying to declare that he was God by what he was saying.

John 8:23
And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.​

There is no indication in Jesus' words that he was delclaring himself to be God. What words would you expect him to use to state that he was from above and not of this world?

John 8:58
Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”​

A better translation would be "I have existed from before Abraham was born", or as the The Living Bible (see below) translates it, "The absolute truth is that I was in existence before Abraham was ever born!".

The Living Bible is a paraphrase ("thought for thought" translation as opposed to a "word for word" translation) of the Old and New Testaments. Its purpose is to say as exactly as possible what the writers of the Scriptures meant, and to say it simply, expanding where necessary for a clear understanding by the modern reader.

 

[Truther]

So who are the at least two beings mentioned when God said "our image"? One was God. Jesus is not God, or else God would have said "I will make man in my image".

Jesus was not a man when he created Adam. He wasn't "made flesh" until Mary conceived while still a virgin, around 4,000 years later. And Jesus is not a man now either.

God and the man Christ Jesus, whom Adam was made in the pattern of.

Jesus has always been there.

So have you.

God even personally knew Jeremiah before he was conceived by his parents too....


5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.


God transcends time,

 

[Truther]

So you would fall into the category of believing Jesus was physical prior to coming to earth. Thanks for your input sir.

In the mind of God, which is reality...yes.

 

[keithr]

Jesus has always been there.

He has existed for over 6,000 years, but he was a man only for 33.5 of those years. No man had been created before Adam. We are all descendants of Adam - adam lived before us.

So have you.

Nonsense.

God even personally knew Jeremiah before he was conceived by his parents too....

God transcends time,

Just because God has planned and foreknew, or foresaw, what would happen thousands of years in advance, and knew the personalities of everyone that he would create, that doesn't mean that everyone existed before they existed! You might plan to build a house, but that house does not exist until you build it, even if you had envisioned it in your mind and even drawn plans of it. Likewise God had plans for Jeremiah before He formed him in his mother's womb.

 

[ScottA]

I assure you Scott, I am not God. I am is a figure of speech in the English language that is used regularly by myself, yourself, and as you point out Jesus, and even Jehovah.

The answer that the Lord God gave, and the answer that Jesus gave, agree. But what you are saying does not agree.

By the way, when Jehovah said I am at Ex 3:14 what question was He answering, and what was His name He revealed to Moses sir?

Since you are determined to school me, let's hear it from you.

 

[ScottA]

The only person to mention spiritual discernment was Paul, in 1 Corinthians 2:14. Yet Paul did not believe Jesus was God, as is evident from his writings, e.g.:

1 Corinthians 8:6 (WEB):

yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.​

Romans 15:6 (WEB):

that with one accord you may with one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.​

Romans 1 (WEB):

(1) Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, set apart for the Good News of God,
(3) concerning his Son, who was born of the offspring of David according to the flesh,
(4) who was declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord,
(5) through whom we received grace and apostleship, for obedience of faith among all the nations, for his name’s sake;
(6) among whom you are also called to belong to Jesus Christ;
(7) to all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.​

2 Corinthians 1:3 (WEB):

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort;​

Colossians 1:3 (ESV):

We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,​

Hebrews chapter 1. Colossians chapter 1.


That's hardly an explanation of the simple words "I am" being used in straightforward sentences that don't need explanation of those words! You have been confused by your dependence on "confused language" into thinking that Jesus using the words "I am" was him declaring himself to be God - it clearly was not! The Hebrew word translated as "I am" in Exodus 3:14 means "to exist"; the two Greek words in the New Testament mean "I am", or "I have existed". God's name YHVH has been translated as "the existing One" (Online Bible Hebrew Lexicon). You're the one relying on translations into different "confused languages" to try and make a meaning that is not there!


Put it in context. The previous verse says, "It’s also written in your law that the testimony of two people is valid". So Jesus is simply saying that the Father (God) was one witness and that Jesus himself is another witness, therefore there are two witnesses so Jesus' testimony is valid. It's absurd to think that Jesus was trying to declare that he was God by what he was saying.


There is no indication in Jesus' words that he was delclaring himself to be God. What words would you expect him to use to state that he was from above and not of this world?


A better translation would be "I have existed from before Abraham was born", or as the The Living Bible (see below) translates it, "The absolute truth is that I was in existence before Abraham was ever born!".

The Living Bible is a paraphrase ("thought for thought" translation as opposed to a "word for word" translation) of the Old and New Testaments. Its purpose is to say as exactly as possible what the writers of the Scriptures meant, and to say it simply, expanding where necessary for a clear understanding by the modern reader.

One can certainly make a case for the Son being different than the Father, or for the Son not being God, but rather the Son of God...for He did lower Himself.

Such a case is clearly according to what is written. Absolutely.

But the Spirit does not end where the words end in mere language. Thus, I have heard and will advocate, that all who are born of the spirit of God, "hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

Moreover, let the words not be a stumbling block. We [should] know better, just how such an approach ends.

 

[Truther]

He has existed for over 6,000 years, but he was a man only for 33.5 of those years. No man had been created before Adam. We are all descendants of Adam - adam lived before us.


Nonsense.


Just because God has planned and foreknew, or foresaw, what would happen thousands of years in advance, and knew the personalities of everyone that he would create, that doesn't mean that everyone existed before they existed! You might plan to build a house, but that house does not exist until you build it, even if you had envisioned it in your mind and even drawn plans of it. Likewise God had plans for Jeremiah before He formed him in his mother's womb.

Did God know Jeremiah before he was conceived?

 

[Robert Gwin]

The answer that the Lord God gave, and the answer that Jesus gave, agree. But what you are saying does not agree.
Since you are determined to school me, let's hear it from you.

Everything Jesus says agrees with God sir. In fact so much so that Jesus said that anyone who seen him seen Jehovah as well. That would be true in the case of any sinless individual. You are trying to use the words I am to say that because Jesus said those words on multiple occasions that he is saying he is Jehovah who also said those words, which is absolutely not true. Does that mean that everyone who says I am together is claiming to be Jehovah? Of course not.

Again you mentioned Ex 3:14 as if it was significant in proving your statement, so what is the correlation or relevance of the verse sir?

 

[ScottA]

Everything Jesus says agrees with God sir. In fact so much so that Jesus said that anyone who seen him seen Jehovah as well. That would be true in the case of any sinless individual. You are trying to use the words I am to say that because Jesus said those words on multiple occasions that he is saying he is Jehovah who also said those words, which is absolutely not true. Does that mean that everyone who says I am together is claiming to be Jehovah? Of course not.

Again you mentioned Ex 3:14 as if it was significant in proving your statement, so what is the correlation or relevance of the verse sir?

Jesus' words are spirit, and he who has an ear is to hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

I have heard, and given my testimony of the truth.

You have also given yours.

Amen.