Was Jesus Orthodox? (or Baptist?)
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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Yes, and you accused MatthewG of cursing you when all that he did was to quote the words of Jesus.
You were making out that MatthewG was doing something wrong when he was not.
This is what the other members are seeing.
You were making out that MatthewG was doing something wrong when he was not.
This is what the other members are seeing.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
So, the Sunday School teacher gave out blank pieces of paper and crayons and a told the children to draw a scene from the Bible. Then she invited each child to come up front and tell everyone about their picture. Little Johnny comes up and shows a picture of a bearded man dunking another man under some water. He explains, "This guy is John the Baptist. And this guy getting baptized, that's Jesus the Methodist!"
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Was Jesus Orthodox? (or Baptist?)
I thought Jesus was Master dox. Can the other dox's raise themselves from the dead?
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Every group has its core beliefs, its core way of defining who they are; that's what "orthodoxy" is. I read a book about the thinkers in the Western church whose ideas historically redefined orthodoxy. Names most everybody has heard of, like Aquinas and Augustine and Luther and Calvin, and names few know, like John Duns Scotus. So, today's heresy may be tomorrow's orthodoxy.
Back in the day, orthodoxy was defined by the great councils, like Chalcedon and Nicaea. Since Protestantism doesn't have a central authority, a new orthodoxy in that realm would be just another denomination. Wanna have a go at it?
Do what you have to do. But be warned: Being a heretic can get you crucified by the defenders of orthodoxy.
On the eve of Passover, Yeshu the Nazarene was hanged .... for practicing sorcery, and leading Israel astray.
Exactly.
This topic is to expose that very understanding. Thank you.
Orthodoxy is a moving target. It's not absolute.
Agree.
Terms like orthodoxy and heretic are used to divide and criticize. (or worse)
Right. Orthodoxy is a man-made standard.
A necessary evil, I suppose. When the alternative is either chaos or 20,000 denominations.
But socially, is used to label others with differing beliefs.
These two related forum topics spun off of a comment that "Universalism is not orthodox".
With obvious divisive intent.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Perhaps, but there is a reason for this. I'm not much for the fuzzy-studies like sociology, but I understand that group self-definition is important. Who is "us" and who is "them". In-group and out-group. Probably a group survival characteristic in a hostile universe.
Right.
But this seems completely inappropriate in a Christian context. Tribalism, as I like to call it.
Typically more than "Who is "us" and who is "them"." But more like Us versus Them.
Naming enemies, even declaring war, on anyone outside the tribe.
Using doctrine to measure the worth of other Christians.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
.....and God's affection for sinners is eclipsed.....the very thing the enemy of souls intends. He makes education and eloquence pat itself on the back and the simple message of God's generosity and tenderness towards erring man discounted, even lost.
FANTASTIC post, thanks!
And the final judment will gather and burn these things, not the errant believers. (my unproven theory at this point)
Study, apologetics, debate tactics, winning arguments, etc. can became a god unto themselves.
Who would discourage anyone from sincere Bible study? However... with what aim?
Just occurred to me that it is this activity, not church people, that are the tares sowed in the church.
And the final judment will gather and burn these things, not the errant believers. (my unproven theory at this point)
Agree.
Study, apologetics, debate tactics, winning arguments, etc. can became a god unto themselves.
Who would discourage anyone from sincere Bible study? However... with what aim?
At the bottom of my page appears this topic title under Similar threads.
The Orthodox Preterist versus the Heretical Dispensationalist
Could any topic title be a more blatant example of what we are discussing here? Wow.
One view stated as "Orthodox"and the opposing view stated as "Heretical".
The Orthodox Preterist versus the Heretical Dispensationalist
Could any topic title be a more blatant example of what we are discussing here? Wow.
One view stated as "Orthodox"and the opposing view stated as "Heretical".
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Is "tribalism" completely inappropriate? Having a strong sense of who you are (and what you're called to do) is necessary for a group to survive in a hostile world. Survival mechanism. Look at some of the warnings in the Epistles.
We no longer have a common definition of what being a Christian really means. We tried to keep the teaching of the apostles and elders; that didn't work. Protestantism tried to make the Bible the gold standard, but we can't even agree on what it says, much less on what it means. Maybe shattering into smaller tribes is for the best. But it will pit "father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”
That is why life by the spirit and encouragment of the word is important rather than arguments and endless disputes that are not needed.Is "tribalism" completely inappropriate? Having a strong sense of who you are (and what you're called to do) is necessary for a group to survive in a hostile world. Survival mechanism. Look at some of the warnings in the Epistles.
We no longer have a common definition of what being a Christian really means. We tried to keep the teaching of the apostles and elders; that didn't work. Protestantism tried to make the Bible the gold standard, but we can't even agree on what it says, much less on what it means. Maybe shattering into smaller tribes is for the best. But it will pit "father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”
Somethings like that can drive a person into madness.
While this letter was personally written to Titus by Paul, there is infinite value in spiritual principles.
Titus 3
New Living Translation
Do What Is Good
3 Remind the believers to submit to the government and its officers. They should be obedient, always ready to do what is good. 2 They must not slander anyone and must avoid quarreling. Instead, they should be gentle and show true humility to everyone.
3 Once we, too, were foolish and disobedient. We were misled and became slaves to many lusts and pleasures. Our lives were full of evil and envy, and we hated each other.
4 But—
When God our Savior revealed his kindness and love, 5 he saved us, not because of the righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He washed away our sins, giving us a new birth and new life through the Holy Spirit.[a] 6 He generously poured out the Spirit upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior. 7 Because of his grace he made us right in his sight and gave us confidence that we will inherit eternal life.
8 This is a trustworthy saying, and I want you to insist on these teachings so that all who trust in God will devote themselves to doing good. These teachings are good and beneficial for everyone.
9 Do not get involved in foolish discussions about spiritual pedigrees[b] or in quarrels and fights about obedience to Jewish laws. These things are useless and a waste of time. 10 If people are causing divisions among you, give a first and second warning. After that, have nothing more to do with them. 11 For people like that have turned away from the truth, and their own sins condemn them.
3 Once we, too, were foolish and disobedient. We were misled and became slaves to many lusts and pleasures. Our lives were full of evil and envy, and we hated each other.
4 But—
When God our Savior revealed his kindness and love, 5 he saved us, not because of the righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He washed away our sins, giving us a new birth and new life through the Holy Spirit.[a] 6 He generously poured out the Spirit upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior. 7 Because of his grace he made us right in his sight and gave us confidence that we will inherit eternal life.
8 This is a trustworthy saying, and I want you to insist on these teachings so that all who trust in God will devote themselves to doing good. These teachings are good and beneficial for everyone.
9 Do not get involved in foolish discussions about spiritual pedigrees[b] or in quarrels and fights about obedience to Jewish laws. These things are useless and a waste of time. 10 If people are causing divisions among you, give a first and second warning. After that, have nothing more to do with them. 11 For people like that have turned away from the truth, and their own sins condemn them.
When people share what they believe, great, sometimes you just gotta leave them be and let God work on them. Cause everyone is responsible for their own relationship. I can't have you work out my relationship with God Lambano. I have to put effort into that relationship, and that comes at a cost, of dying, being buried, and raising with Christ, as the Lord.
That's a great question, thanks!
I'm using the term in a negative way. Referring to the Us versus Them mentality.
Agree.
And the sense of the word tribe that is a strong and nurturing community is definitely a positive thing.
Right.
What is orthodox in the larger context?
Well said, thanks!We tried to keep the teaching of the apostles and elders; that didn't work. Protestantism tried to make the Bible the gold standard, but we can't even agree on what it says, much less on what it means. Maybe shattering into smaller tribes is for the best. But it will pit "father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”
Lambano
Well-Known Member
"I once asked One who knew, ‘What is Truth?’ I didn't wait for an answer."
Is the question, then, "What does Jesus consider the "right beliefs" and "right praxis"?
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Aye! Some atheists, it seems, study the Bible in order to enable themselves better to make believers stumble and fall. If a believer is really on fire for God will he stumble? Will he fall? Who is lukewarm?
| Re 3:15 | I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. |
| Re 3:16 | So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. |
Interesting that would be the result of Bible study. Seems they found some problems.
Otherwise, what would they have to complain about? (if they found no problems)
I know of at least one former atheist whose sincere Bible studies were intended to help him trip up believers... but instead brought him to Christ.
Atheists cannot, I believe, cause anyone to stumble who is sincerely in love with God. The ones who do stumble would be those not solidly set on the True Foundation... the ones who are shaky or already in some way unsteady in their course looking too regularly to the side or behind them instead keeping their eyes always on the Lord.
So, if a person has reservations about their religious upbringing in order to re-examine them, you claim they have stumbled?
No, not I! Unless God reveals something about another person, how can I make such a claim? If He should give me such a revelation, without also being given the go-ahead, to whom should I reveal my revelation? Are we to be led by the Holy Spirit or by our own logical human minds and ways?
Where is the Way of God?
| Isa 55:8 | For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. |
| Isa 55:9 | For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. |
Who has eyes to see and ears to hear what thus saith the Lord? A lot of people seem to believe that they do and proceed perhaps carelessly.
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