Was Jesus Orthodox? (or Baptist?)

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St. SteVen

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Follow-up to the "Is Universalism Orthodox."[?] topic.

What is this thing with accusations of unorthodox, heretic, heterodox, pagan, etc.
Seems like blatant tribalism to me. Us versus them. When will we ever learn?

So, was Jesus orthodox?
Or did he operate outside the realm of the orthodoxy of his day?
Was he a heretic by their standards?

Perhaps being heterodox is WAY underrated. Do we worship the status quo?
 
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St. SteVen

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Hopefully this is on topic, pertaining “was Jesus orthodox” will use to the bible to clarify my thoughts if it off topic please let me know and ill remove the post, thank you.
Perhaps you need to have a solid working definition of what "orthodox' and "unorthodox" means first.
 

St. SteVen

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May it be asked though, why do these terms matter if one seeks out for truth?
That is sort of my point here.
Of what value is orthodox, and of what harm is unorthodox?
These are typically just labels used to discredit others.

But Christians are quick to rally around a topic asking if Universalism is orthodox.
The implication being, that Universalism is UNorthodox, and therefore bad.

So, was Jesus orthodox?

Or Baptist? - LOL
 

St. SteVen

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if it off topic please let me know and ill remove the post, thank you.
I don't have any rules about what can and can't be posted. I am not trying to control the content that people want to post.
I'll let the mods track that.
 

St. SteVen

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Why is you enjoy universalism so much? Im not a believer in the whole notion myself. However why are you so adamant about it?
I want to give a complete answer to this question, but I want to know whether you think Jesus was orthodox first. (on topic)
Based on your definitions, thanks for posting them, what do you think?
 

St. SteVen

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I have already shared my thoughts on post #2.
That was before you had a working definition of orthodox.
He was radical. That is why meeting him, people who choose to follow become born again. He was never poltical, but he was firm in establishing the Kingdom of Heaven for the love of his Father. He was firm in the beliefs that his Father taught him, and he taught others, such as love your enemy. And countless other topics which is talked about, and how to handle things by the spirit.
So, was Jesus orthodox?
 

St. SteVen

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Would you like to answer the question you wanted to answer fully before?
Yes I would, but I want you to tell me if Jesus was orthodox.
I have composed a lengthy PM with the answer for you ready to send.
But I need you to commit. Why are you afraid? Or do you need help to process this?

Would it be bad to say Jesus was orthodox?
Would it be bad to say Jesus was not orthodox?

My answer would be, "No, Jesus was not orthodox."
Which I have already said on the forum.

dev553344 said:
Just a suggestion as universalism is unorthodox.
So was Jesus.
Did you have a problem with Him?
There you go. Why would I write such a thing?
 

St. SteVen

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I will not bow my knee. My question was openly asked and that was the hope is you would openly share. Ive done stated what has been stated in post #2, #11.
Every knee will bow...

I am not obligated to answer your question, but offered to answer it
on the condition that you would answer the question: "Was Jesus orthodox?"
But you seem either fearful to, or unable to, answer. Maybe I can help.

What was the standard of orthodoxy for Jews in Jesus day?
Answer: Judaism.

Did Jesus operate within the confines of orthodox Judaism, or outside them?
Answer: Outside the confines of orthodox Judaism.

Was Jesus orthodox?
Answer: No, Jesus was not orthodox.

Is that a bad thing?
Answer; No, that is not a bad thing.

If someone wants to argue that Jesus operated within the confines
of orthodox Judaism, I'd like to hear about it. Thanks.
 

St. SteVen

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You may keep the reasons why you believe in universalism if you will not openly express it on the forums, I can respect that...
Actually, I was surprised that you asked. I have been very open on the forum. Not sure why you don't remember.
Brain damage from drug abuse, perhaps?

I just wanted a trade. Your memory failure gave me a bargaining chip. And my answer would have been off-topic here.
So a PM seemed a good solution.

Was Jesus orthodox?
 

St. SteVen

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Steven,

There is no reason to insuate that it is because of fear, and no any need for insults, about my past abuse.

My choice is that Jesus was radical, and my post number #2, #11 remain the same.

Jesus fulfilled the law, perfectly, something that his fellow brothers failed at.


Matthew 5:17-20​

Christ Came to Fulfill the Law​

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
  • Jesus did everything rightly in obedience to his Father.​

Jesus Prays on the Mount of Olives​

39 Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him. 40 On reaching the place, he said to them, “Pray that you will not fall into temptation.” 41 He withdrew about a stone’s throw beyond them, knelt downand prayed, 42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” 43 An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44 And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.

Paul wrote about this to the Saints in Rome;

Life in the Spirit​

8 So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. 2 And because you belong to him, the power[a] of the life-giving Spirit has freed you[b] from the power of sin that leads to death. 3 The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature.[c] So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. 4 He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit.

Paul also wrote how the law and ordanices were nailed to the cross to the people of colossae,

Freedom from Rules and New Life in Christ

6 And now, just as you accepted Christ Jesus as your Lord, you must continue to follow him. 7 Let your roots grow down into him, and let your lives be built on him. Then your faith will grow strong in the truth you were taught, and you will overflow with thankfulness.

8 Don’t let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers[a] of this world, rather than from Christ.9 For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.[b] 10 So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority.

11 When you came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision—the cutting away of your sinful nature.[c] 12 For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead.

13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. 14 He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. 15 In this way, he disarmed[d] the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross
.

If you would like me to delete my posts please let me know, i dont mind going through them, thank you!​
How do you abolish the Prophets? (Matthew 5;17)

Have you seen Jesus explanation of Matthew 5:17, given after his resurrection? See below.
The Law is not the law. The Law and the Prophets refers to the Books of the Law and the Prophets.

Luke 24:44-45 NIV
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you:
Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”
45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.
 

St. SteVen

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Jesus fulfilled the law, perfectly, something that his fellow brothers failed at.
So, does that mean that you believe Jesus was orthodox?
That he operated within the confines of orthodox Judaism?

Was orthodoxy welcoming to him? Seems not.
What was the problem?
 

St. SteVen

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So no I dont believe that orthodox or unorthdox defines the Lord Yeshua at all, Steven.
So, you are saying that Jesus was not orthodox.

Anything outside the confines of orthodoxy is unorthodox.
Orthodox is a very narrow term, binary, in fact. ON/OFF
Unorthodox is a broad term, referring to anything outside the confines of strict orthodoxy.
 

St. SteVen

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And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Now you put a curse on me? Thanks.
Christians can be the absolute worst people.
 

MatthewG

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All the best steven, may God and the Lord Jesus Christ be with you. I think alot of my posts were off topic so i deleted them.
 

St. SteVen

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All the best steven, may God and the Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
Yes. Thanks for putting a curse on me.
Do you have any idea what you are doing? Seriously.
Do you really think Jesus gave you authority to do that?
Simply because I disagree with your opinion.
 

Jay Ross

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Now you put a curse on me? Thanks.
Christians can be the absolute worst people.

Chapter and verse please?
Where did Jesus say such? Not familiar.

MatthewG answered your question when he posted what Jesus said as recorded in the scriptures.

"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet."

This was Jesus' instruction to the disciples He sent out to do ministry.
 
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