Was judas Iscariot used by Satan ??

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Hiddenthings

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Notice verse 28?

(Now none (no man) of those present at the table understood why Jesus said this to Judas) Jn 13:28.

Jesus and Judas are having a private, yet open, exchange about Judas' adversarial intentions. It's not unlike the temptations in the wilderness, Judas gave in to the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life.

The passage is far more nuanced than many Christians tend to recognize.
 

Fred J

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@Lambano see what I mean!

Do you realize what it takes, mentally and spiritually, for a Christian to reach this point? Just imagine the level of delusion the web of fabricated lies and self-deception, that must take place for a sincere believer to speak such words.
Well said about you, i agree!
I eagerly await the Lords coming to clean up this mess once and for all.
Yes, your lord the anti-Christ is coming to do the clean up of our mess since the Apostles' and Prophets' foundation we've been built on.
 

Sister-n-Christ

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@Sister-n-Christ @Lambano @Fred J

Do you know how many times the word Satan (adversary) is used in John's Gospel?
No, God is not called the adversary in the Bible. The term "adversary" in the Bible typically refers to an opponent or enemy, and the primary use of this term in scripture is in reference to the devil (Satan). The devil is specifically referred to as "our adversary" in 1 Peter 5:8.

While the Hebrew word translated as "adversary" (Satan) can refer to any opponent, it's most often used to describe the devil, who is presented as the main opponent of God and God's people. The concept of a cosmic being opposed to God's goodness is not explicitly present in the Hebrew Bible, but it developed during the Second Temple period.

In Christian tradition, Satan is often viewed as an angel who rebelled against God. The idea of Satan as the accuser of God's people is also present, particularly in the book of Revelation.

 

Hiddenthings

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No, God is not called the adversary in the Bible. The term "adversary" in the Bible typically refers to an opponent or enemy, and the primary use of this term in scripture is in reference to the devil (Satan). The devil is specifically referred to as "our adversary" in 1 Peter 5:8.

While the Hebrew word translated as "adversary" (Satan) can refer to any opponent, it's most often used to describe the devil, who is presented as the main opponent of God and God's people. The concept of a cosmic being opposed to God's goodness is not explicitly present in the Hebrew Bible, but it developed during the Second Temple period.

In Christian tradition, Satan is often viewed as an angel who rebelled against God. The idea of Satan as the accuser of God's people is also present, particularly in the book of Revelation.

Actually, most commentators agree that in those sections of Scripture, it’s the Lord who is being referred to as the adversary. The issue lies with how the translators chose to interpret the word.

No problem! I'll help with the study for you.


Here's the link to explore: Blue Letter Bible – Lexicon for H7854

Take a look at how often the Hebrew word translated as Satan is also rendered adversary.

Enjoy the deep dive!

When you come up for air I hope you will have something of value to say
 

VictoryinJesus

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I believe everyone in Scripture understood the serpent in the same way Paul did in 2 Corinthians 11:3: “But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.”

And this lines up with what we read in Genesis 3:1 (ESV): “Now the serpent was more crafty (cunning) than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, ‘Did God actually say, “You shall not eat of any tree in the garden”?’

Not difficult to interpret if you are remove the imaginations of pagan philopsphers from your head!

All the cunning animal did was introduce the thinking of the flesh to Eve and she took possession of it and awaken those latent desires in her own body.

Paul understood the truth!
If I understood you correctly I think you have valid points. You know I struggle with making myself clear. I will try.

First, when Jesus said “one of you is a devil” the overall arc of what was being spoken of before. Is the same message how one must be born anew. How one must put off the old man and put on the New. “You must eat of My flesh and drink of My blood” How one (the New Man) is Life, the other (the old man) is not. How one born is born after the flesh. One is born of Spirit. they all sitting at the table still had that old man, that devilish way of thinking that Is spoken of in James 3:14-18 But if you have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. [15] This wisdom descended not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. [16] For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. [17] But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. [18] And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

Devilish… Different from “My ways are not your ways. My ways are higher than your own ways. My thoughts are higher than your own thoughts.”

Point is “one of you is a devil.” Could cut each one of them in two….where they all had their conversation in the flesh; in the lust of the eyes, the lust flesh and the pride of life.
“One of you is a devil” separates that which is flesh (the old man we are told to put off) from that which is Spirit(Put on the New man which is born after the image of God) . Strange Judas asked “is it me, Master?” 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; [4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. [5] Remember you not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? [6] And now you know what withholds that he might be revealed in his time. [7] For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now lets will let, until he be taken out of the way. [8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: [9] Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, [10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Peter also was told “satan, get behind Me” because of Peter’s way of thinking. I say it was Peters way of thinking because he didn’t want Jesus to go. Jesus saying those thoughts were was devilish and not after the things that belong to God.

One of you is a devil? Why did Saul become Paul? Why do we want a new name?
 
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Hiddenthings

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If I understood you correctly I think you have valid points. You know I struggle with making myself clear. I will try.

First, when Jesus said “one of you is a devil” the overall arc of what was being spoken of before. Is the same message how one must be born anew. How one must put off the old man and put on the New. “You must eat of My flesh and drink of My blood” How one (the New Man) is Life, the other (the old man) is not. How one born is born after the flesh. One is born of Spirit. they all sitting at the table still had that old man, that devilish way of thinking that Is spoken of in James 3:14-18 But if you have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. [15] This wisdom descended not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. [16] For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. [17] But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. [18] And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

Great points, Victory!

The term devilish refers to corrupt or evil thinking, or in that context, a person seen as having an evil spirit (character)—not some ethereal spirit entering someone, as some here seem to believe.

Devilish… Different from “My ways are not your ways. My ways are higher than your own ways. My thoughts are higher than your own thoughts.”
I'm liking how you are bringing this back to the mind, thought and thinking - its whats missing from @Fred J and @Sister-n-Christ
Point is “one of you is a devil.” Could cut each one of them in two….where they all had their conversation in the flesh; in the lust of the eyes, the lust flesh and the pride of life.
“One of you is a devil” separates that which is flesh (the old man we are told to put off) from that which is Spirit(Put on the New man which is born after the image of God) . Strange Judas asked “is it me, Master?” 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; [4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. [5] Remember you not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? [6] And now you know what withholds that he might be revealed in his time. [7] For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now lets will let, until he be taken out of the way. [8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: [9] Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, [10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Peter also was told “satan, get behind Me” because of Peter’s way of thinking. I say it was Peters way of thinking because he didn’t want Jesus to go. Jesus saying those thoughts were was devilish and not after the things that belong to God.

One of you is a devil? Why did Saul become Paul? Why do we want a new name?
No doubt, these things have been revealed to you by God!

It’s the first real encouragement I’ve received online in quite a while.
 

Sister-n-Christ

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Great points, Victory!

The term devilish refers to corrupt or evil thinking, or in that context, a person seen as having an evil spirit (character)—not some ethereal spirit entering someone, as some here seem to believe.


I'm liking how you are bringing this back to the mind, thought and thinking - its whats missing from @Fred J and @Sister-n-Christ

No doubt, these things have been revealed to you by God!

It’s the first real encouragement I’ve received online in quite a while.
Or,you're wrong. And you're encouraging Victory to be wrong too .
 

VictoryinJesus

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Actually, yes it is in the original text.

2:23 τοῦτον τῇ ὡρισμένῃ βουλῇ καὶ προγνώσει τοῦ θεοῦ ἔκδοτον λαβόντες διὰ χειρῶν ἀνόμων προσπήξαντες ἀνείλετε

Horizo: determined, decreed, ordained.
Boule: plan, will

So, it was the plan all along that Jesus would be betrayed. "Judas, being Judas, could do no other." How can we still say that Judas was morally culpable for his actions when he was following God's preordained will? Does anyone else find this unsettling?
I find it unsettling too. It helps me to think of what you said this way. Your words are in blue.

So, it was the plan all along that Jesus would be betrayed.
Will each one of us betray Jesus before we are born anew? Is that the plan?

"Vickie, being Vickie, could do no other." (Being alienated and enemies in her mind by wicked works…she persecuted the way of Jesus.) Colossians 1:20-21 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. [21] And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now has he reconciled

How can we still say that Judas was morally culpable for his actions when he was following God's preordained will? …it’s God’s plan that the flesh will fail. What if we all are following a preordained Will of God where the flesh fails? Is it God’s plan that the vessel of destruction which destroys and is enmity against God… be destroyed as it has destroyed. Yet is it also God’s plan that the vessel He preordained, created for Mercy, that this vessel may be saved. Personally I think God has the right to choose what vessel is for destruction and which is for Mercy…we make as if God is picking people, instead of which vessel. God has not chosen that vessel which does devilish things, after the flesh. This vessel is after destruction and death. Yet God has chosen that which is born after the Spirit, is created unto Mercy, and for His purpose.

Does any of that make sense? Judas did what we all have done born after the flesh. We have destroyed.
 
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Fred J

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What entered him at that moment was the adversarial thought, the intent to betray Christ.
Galatians chapter 5 clarifies our flesh and it's fruit is apparently in enmity with the Holy Ghost, opposed to one another, are devil and satan on our own.

In the Gospel that's the very exposed nature, Judas, Peter, the leaders of Israel and the Jews in the flesh realm shared, besides satan or any evil spirit realm intervention.

The intervention of satan and evil spirits in a person were on another level of divination, specific an incident to pin point, the women bleeding for 12 years.

What went out of her were seven demons, and she's been healed of one, 'evil spirits' and two, 'infirmities'.

Science is able prove the 'infirmities' and the probable cause in the kingdom of man, but not the 'evil spirits'.

But only the Kingdom of GOD through those born of the Spirit and spirit man, and disciple in the New Testament, can prove otherwise and the true cause of it all.

Matthew 12:
43. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.


The above scripture of the Kingdom of GOD teaches about two separate entities, one is of the physical carnal realm while the other from the invisible spiritual realm.

It is the same where it teaches similarly satan 'entering' Judas, besides himself in the flesh and who's fruits are likewise enmity to the things of GOD.

According to our 'counterfeit' and 'imposter' representatives, who even quote scripture, falsely interpret that a man with evil thought is the evil spirit or satan within.

This is apparently 'folly' in their part and we know them by their fruit and partake not in such heresy of modern day heretics.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ
 

Hiddenthings

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Galatians chapter 5 clarifies our flesh and it's fruit is apparently in enmity with the Holy Ghost, opposed to one another, are devil and satan on our own.

In the Gospel that's the very exposed nature, Judas, Peter, the leaders of Israel and the Jews in the flesh realm shared, besides satan or any evil spirit realm intervention.

The intervention of satan and evil spirits in a person were on another level of divination, specific an incident to pin point, the women bleeding for 12 years.

What went out of her were seven demons, and she's been healed of one, 'evil spirits' and two, 'infirmities'.

Science is able prove the 'infirmities' and the probable cause in the kingdom of man, but not the 'evil spirits'.

But only the Kingdom of GOD through those born of the Spirit and spirit man, and disciple in the New Testament, can prove otherwise and the true cause of it all.

Matthew 12:
43. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.


The above scripture of the Kingdom of GOD teaches about two separate entities, one is of the physical carnal realm while the other from the invisible spiritual realm.

It is the same where it teaches similarly satan 'entering' Judas, besides himself in the flesh and who's fruits are likewise enmity to the things of GOD.

According to our 'counterfeit' and 'imposter' representatives, who even quote scripture, falsely interpret that a man with evil thought is the evil spirit or satan within.

This is apparently 'folly' in their part and we know them by their fruit and partake not in such heresy of modern day heretics.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ
How many times in John's Gospel is your so called creature named?
 

Hiddenthings

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I find it unsettling too. It helps me to think of what you said this way. Your words are in blue.

So, it was the plan all along that Jesus would be betrayed.
Will each one of us betray Jesus before we are born anew? Is that the plan?

"Vickie, being Vickie, could do no other." (Being alienated and enemies in her mind by wicked works…she persecuted the way of Jesus.) Colossians 1:20-21 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. [21] And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now has he reconciled

How can we still say that Judas was morally culpable for his actions when he was following God's preordained will? …it’s God’s plan that the flesh will fail. What if we all are following a preordained Will of God where the flesh fails? Is it God’s plan that the vessel of destruction which destroys and is enmity against God… be destroyed as it has destroyed. Yet is it also God’s plan that the vessel He preordained, created for Mercy, that this vessel may be saved. Personally I think God has the right to choose what vessel is for destruction and which is for Mercy…we make as if God is picking people, instead of which vessel. God has not chosen that vessel which does devilish things, after the flesh. This vessel is after destruction and death. Yet God has chosen that which is born after the Spirit, is created unto Mercy, and for His purpose.

Does any of that make sense? Judas did what we all have done born after the flesh. We have destroyed.
@Lambano

"So, if it was always part of the plan for Jesus to be betrayed, if Judas, being Judas, couldn’t have acted any differently, how can we still hold him morally responsible for what he did?"

Just because God knows something does that mean he caused it? He may influence the circumstances surrounding it but is He responsible? God is right - always.

God’s plan included the betrayal of Jesus, but Judas still acted freely within that plan. He wasn’t a robot. He made choices, driven by his own motives, greed, disillusionment, perhaps pride. Foreknowledge doesn't remove free will.

Judas will be raised and have to give an account for his actions just as we will however the record strongly implies Judas cannot be saved in that day.

This idea is beautifully expressed in Isaiah 45:7: "I form (yatsar) light and create (bara) darkness, I make peace and create evil; I the Lord do all these things."

Not some imaginary evil angel!!! God is the one who does all these things. He allows those who choose to become vessels of dishonor to serve His greater purpose, benefiting those who choose to be vessels of honor.

This knowledge should create a fear (reverence) for Him.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Great points, Victory!

The term devilish refers to corrupt or evil thinking, or in that context, a person seen as having an evil spirit (character)—not some ethereal spirit entering someone, as some here seem to believe.


I'm liking how you are bringing this back to the mind, thought and thinking - its whats missing from @Fred J and @Sister-n-Christ

No doubt, these things have been revealed to you by God!

It’s the first real encouragement I’ve received online in quite a while.
It’s odd because no one knows I had these thoughts this morning before I even read your post. What you posted helped with thoughts already present which I found encouraging.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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@Lambano

"So, if it was always part of the plan for Jesus to be betrayed, if Judas, being Judas, couldn’t have acted any differently, how can we still hold him morally responsible for what he did?"

First question: Just because God knows something does that mean he caused it? He may influence the circumstances surrounding it but is He responsible? God is right - always.

God’s plan included the betrayal of Jesus, but Judas still acted freely within that plan. He wasn’t a robot. He made choices, driven by his own motives, greed, disillusionment, perhaps pride. Foreknowledge doesn't remove free will.

Judas will be raised and have to give an account for his actions just as we will however the record strongly implies Judas cannot be saved in that day.

This idea is beautifully expressed in Isaiah 45:7: "I form (yatsar) light and create (bara) darkness, I make peace and create evil; I the Lord do all these things."

Not some imaginary evil angel!!! God is the one who does all these things. He allows those who choose to become vessels of dishonor to serve His greater purpose, benefiting those who choose to be vessels of honor.

This knowledge should create a fear (reverence) for Him.
I’ll have to think on this one. I still think it is God who chooses, not us.
 

Hiddenthings

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Galatians chapter 5 clarifies our flesh and it's fruit is apparently in enmity with the Holy Ghost, opposed to one another, are devil and satan on our own.

In the Gospel that's the very exposed nature, Judas, Peter, the leaders of Israel and the Jews in the flesh realm shared, besides satan or any evil spirit realm intervention.

The intervention of satan and evil spirits in a person were on another level of divination, specific an incident to pin point, the women bleeding for 12 years.

What went out of her were seven demons, and she's been healed of one, 'evil spirits' and two, 'infirmities'.

Science is able prove the 'infirmities' and the probable cause in the kingdom of man, but not the 'evil spirits'.

But only the Kingdom of GOD through those born of the Spirit and spirit man, and disciple in the New Testament, can prove otherwise and the true cause of it all.

Matthew 12:
43. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.


The above scripture of the Kingdom of GOD teaches about two separate entities, one is of the physical carnal realm while the other from the invisible spiritual realm.

It is the same where it teaches similarly satan 'entering' Judas, besides himself in the flesh and who's fruits are likewise enmity to the things of GOD.

According to our 'counterfeit' and 'imposter' representatives, who even quote scripture, falsely interpret that a man with evil thought is the evil spirit or satan within.

This is apparently 'folly' in their part and we know them by their fruit and partake not in such heresy of modern day heretics.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ
It appears you are struggling with the Lords teaching once again.

Here is the interpration which is in the mind of Christ and fits the context perfectly.

The nation of Israel had undergone a form of cleansing through the preaching of John the Baptist. As Matthew 3:5–6 records, "Jerusalem, and all Judea, and all the region about the Jordan went out to him and were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins." The "house" (Israel) was cleaned—"swept and put in order" (Matt. 12:44) but remained empty, lacking its true occupant: the Messiah.

As John 1:11 puts it, "He came to his own, and his own did not receive him."

Israel's rejection of Christ justified Jesus’ statement: "The last state of that man [Israel] is worse than the first [before John's preaching]" (Matt. 12:45). Jesus went further, saying, "The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here" (Matt. 12:41).

This teaching was not merely a parable but a prophetic warning. In A.D. 70, Israel's fierce and irrational ("demonized") resistance to the Roman siege culminated in the nation’s destruction.

It seems your preconceived ideas are hindering your ability to accurately understand the Lord’s words. Set aside these assumptions and approach the text with fresh eyes.
 

Fred J

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How many times in John's Gospel is your so called creature named?
The only fruit i witness coming out of you is 'folly' disputes and insults.

Christ Himself did not reply to folly disputes and insults of the leaders of Israel.

The same with those who're of His members here, wise enough not to reply yours.

You've put forth your version in regards the thread, and we put forth ours.

It's wise readers distinguish and with which version they want to run with.

It's pointless and in vain to go back and forth and get no where.

i perceive how desperate you are to force your false version through and in vain.
 

VictoryinJesus

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Or,you're wrong. And you're encouraging Victory to be wrong too .
I don’t need anyone to encourage me to be wrong. I’ve lived in this world for 55 (opps 56!) years to where my mind and thoughts and ways have been conformed to this world. It’s now unlearning all the wrong thoughts and wrong ways, to hopefully “be you transformed by the renewing of your mind.”


Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be you transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

It’s freeing to no longer think of the devil as some creature with horns and teeth that devour. It was freeing to not skim over who devours. It’s right in front of our face.