Was judas Iscariot used by Satan ??

[Big Boy Johnson]

Comón Big Boy - don't disappoint - give us a story? You love telling them!

Read the Gospels and tell me if you think Jesus is a sissy!

Christians believe God's Word, tares do not and they go to hell

I use the mighty Name of Jesus Christ and I command the devil to leave and he does!

The devil lives in your head rent free and we know that because you're claiming God is a liar.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Read the Gospels and tell me if you think Jesus is a sissy!

Christians believe God's Word, tares do not and they go to hell

I use the mighty Name of Jesus Christ and I command the devil to leave and he does!

The devil lives in your head rent free and we know that because you're claiming God is a liar.

It’s not about what I think, Big Boy, what matters is that you’ve got plenty of made-up stories about your creature, but not a single real one to back them up.

Everyone knows it, even if they won’t admit it.

What’s even more ironic is that you claim to speak in the name of the Lord, yet you have no real understanding of how, or why this evil being departs. And you assume everyone shares the power you claim to have?

I’d expect you to have countless stories of people being devoured due to their lack of faith. Yet in all your responses, how many of those stories have you told?

Vanishing or blood trail...which is it?

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Big Boy Johnson

"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour."

Let's assume your foolish belief for a moment.

1. Does he devour non-believers or is he only interested in believers?
2. When they are devoured where do they go?
3. Once in this place can they get out?
4. When you have encountered this creature do you know when it has left you?
5. Why doesn't it keep coming back or does it give up easily?

I'll let you in on a secret Big Boy...but don't tell anyone!

The Apostle Paul had a similar encounter with a roaring lion in 2 Timothy 4:17, but this lion was not an evil supernatural being, but Caesar's tribunal, (vs. 16, 17)

You don't have to be a blunt object...you can be sharpened!!

 

[Hiddenthings]

1 Peter 5:8"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour."

For the astute of mind lets make some observations!

The passage does not explicitly identify the devil as a rebel angel. While it compares the devil to a roaring lion, it's worth noting that lion-like traits are also attributed to humans elsewhere in Scripture, for example, in Psalm 22:12–13, Psalm 57:4, and Proverbs 28:15, rather than to angels.

The context to this section of Scripture is suffering under trails and notable are these words, "because God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble 1 Pe 5:5.

His audience understands he is speaking about the authorities who are oppressing them for the beliefs and manner of life.

These people are devils because they are falsely accusing them and causing them great unrest.

 

[Hiddenthings]

The Greek word "antidikos," translated as "adversary," refers to a legal opponent or adversary in a court of law. Similarly, the word "diabolos," translated as "devil," means an accuser or slanderer. Therefore, the imagery of the "roaring lion" represents a legal adversary who brings malicious accusations. This figure is best understood as the Roman magistracy. The well-documented persecutions of the church under emperors like Nero and Diocletian support this interpretation.

The problem with many of you in this thread is that you're unwilling to read the verse in its proper context—both scripturally and historically. Instead, you're more interested in promoting mythological ideas than honestly engaging with the Word.

Another issue is that you have no origin story and no supporting example from Peter’s letters that demonstrates your understanding. As a result, these points go unanswered, because you simply have no counter or rebuttal to offer.

It's as if you're all deaf, blind, and mute, trapped within your own man-made exegesis.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Now, imagine having read the last few posts and still clinging to this false interpretation.

If you're going to argue that the devil was truly behind the persecution, then the burden of proof is on you, there must be clear evidence from the text itself to support that claim.

Simply reading your own meaning into a word doesn't make it true. It might reflect your personal interpretation, but it's meaningless if it doesn't align with the intent of the original writer.

 

[David Lamb]

This makes me laugh that Christians think there is a lion going around devouring people (knee slapper!). Such delusion is so strong in those who oppose themselves!
...when was the last time you saw a person get taken Big Boy

No they don't think there is a lion going around devouring people. They believe what Peter wrote, that the devil goes about like a roaring lion.

 

[Hiddenthings]

No they don't think there is a lion going around devouring people. They believe what Peter wrote, that the devil goes about like a roaring lion.

They don't know what they think David and neither do you. You might think you do but the evidence suggests you are in the dark on this subject.

And why are you misrepresenting the text?

Be sober and alert. Your enemy the devil, like a roaring lion, is on the prowl looking for someone to devour. 1 Pe 5:8.

If Peter has his mind in Psalm 22:13 how does this affect your understanding of "false accuser"

 

[David Lamb]

They don't know what they think David and neither do you. You might think you do but the evidence suggests you are in the dark on this subject.

And why are you misrepresenting the text?

Be sober and alert. Your enemy the devil, like a roaring lion, is on the prowl looking for someone to devour. 1 Pe 5:8.

If Peter has his mind in Psalm 22:13 how does this affect your understanding of "false accuser"

Sorry but I still say the same thing, that I have never come across a Christian who believes that there is an actual lion, with mane and claws, and sharp teeth going around devouring people. I know I don't believe that. However, I do believe that Peter teaches, that in the same way as a lion searches for its prey, so Satan goes around on the look-out for Christians to "devour". How did I misrepresent the text? The verse says:

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.” (1Pe 5:8 NKJV)

That's slightly different to the translation you quoted, but that doesn't make it misrepresentation. You then ask about my understanding of "false accuser." I am not sure what you mean. The word "accuser" occurs twice in the NKJV, in neither place with the adjective "False":

“Set a wicked man over him, And let an accuser stand at his right hand.” (Ps 109:6 NKJV)

“Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.” (Re 12:10 NKJV)

Obviously the devil is a false accuser when he seeks to accuse those who have been given Christ's righteousness. As for Psalm 22:13, it says:

“They gape at Me with their mouths, Like a raging and roaring lion.” (Ps 22:13 NKJV)

Looking at the context, it is looking forward to the Saviour on the cross. Just a few verses further on, for example, we read:

“They divide My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots.” (Ps 22:18 NKJV)

The New Testament confirms that this is about Jesus on the cross:

“They said therefore among themselves, "Let us not tear it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be," that the Scripture might be fulfilled which says: "They divided My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots." Therefore the soldiers did these things.” (Joh 19:24 NKJV)

 

[Hiddenthings]

Sorry but I still say the same thing, that I have never come across a Christian who believes that there is an actual lion, with mane and claws, and sharp teeth going around devouring people.

I didn't say it's was a literal Lion!

Christians here believe your creature devours people at will like a lion (metaphor)!

I know I don't believe that.

You must because that is was it states!

However, I do believe that Peter teaches, that in the same way as a lion searches for its prey, so Satan goes around on the look-out for Christians to "devour". How did I misrepresent the text? The verse says:

Explain how you believe the devil devours people.


You have misrepresented the text by suggesting that people are not actually devoured.

If you want to insist on your interpretation of the word "devil" while downplaying the aspect of devouring, that’s your choice, but it does misrepresent what the text actually says.

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.” (1Pe 5:8 NKJV)

That's slightly different to the translation you quoted, but that doesn't make it misrepresentation. You then ask about my understanding of "false accuser." I am not sure what you mean. The word "accuser" occurs twice in the NKJV, in neither place with the adjective "False":

I'm not certain you have looked into this subject David -

“Set a wicked man over him, And let an accuser stand at his right hand.” (Ps 109:6 NKJV)

“Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.” (Re 12:10 NKJV)

Who are the accuser of the brethren?

The reference in 1 Peter 5:8 is to paganism, which functioned as the political "devil" a false accuser that had cast many Christians into prison (as seen in Revelation 2:10). These persecutions occurred in the sight of God (as the phrase is more accurately rendered). Partial relief from this oppression came with the rise of Constantine to power

David, you need to know your history and the treatment of the early believers. You are away with the fairies thinking this is all attributed to a sinister dark agent!

There is plenty of that already in the earth!

Obviously the devil is a false accuser when he seeks to accuse those who have been given Christ's righteousness. As for Psalm 22:13, it says:

“They gape at Me with their mouths, Like a raging and roaring lion.” (Ps 22:13 NKJV)

There is no such being in the OT so who is the Psalmist speaking to in Ps 22:13?

They* open their mouths to devour me like a roaring lion that rips its prey.

*They are the Psalmists enemies not a make-believe creature of darkness.

Looking at the context, it is looking forward to the Saviour on the cross. Just a few verses further on, for example, we read:

“They divide My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots.” (Ps 22:18 NKJV)

The New Testament confirms that this is about Jesus on the cross:

“They said therefore among themselves, "Let us not tear it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be," that the Scripture might be fulfilled which says: "They divided My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots." Therefore the soldiers did these things.” (Joh 19:24 NKJV)

So, by your own reasoning, it's unlikely that Peter was referring to a supernatural evil being. It's far more consistent to understand "the devil" as those enemies of Christ who were actively persecuting believers.

Now ask yourself, what makes more sense?

 

[David Lamb]

I didn't say it's was a literal Lion!

In that case, I am sorry for misunderstanding.

Christians here believe your creature devours people at will like a lion (metaphor)!

Over and over again the bible describes the devil/Satan in ways that show he is a created being.

You must because that is was it states!

What I meant (when I thought that you were saying that Christians believe the devil to be a literal lion) was that I don;t believe that he is.

Explain how you believe the devil devours people.

He seeks to entangle them in sin/disobedience of God, and to draw them away from Christ.

You have misrepresented the text by suggesting that people are not actually devoured.

If you want to insist on your interpretation of the word "devil" while downplaying the aspect of devouring, that’s your choice, but it does misrepresent what the text actually says.



I'm not certain you have looked into this subject David -

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Who are the accuser of the brethren?

The reference in 1 Peter 5:8 is to paganism, which functioned as the political "devil" a false accuser that had cast many Christians into prison (as seen in Revelation 2:10). These persecutions occurred in the sight of God (as the phrase is more accurately rendered). Partial relief from this oppression came with the rise of Constantine to power

David, you need to know your history and the treatment of the early believers. You are away with the fairies thinking this is all attributed to a sinister dark agent!

There is plenty of that already in the earth!



There is no such being in the OT so who is the Psalmist speaking to in Ps 22:13?

They* open their mouths to devour me like a roaring lion that rips its prey.

*They are the Psalmists enemies not a make-believe creature of darkness.


So, by your own reasoning, it's unlikely that Peter was referring to a supernatural evil being. It's far more consistent to understand "the devil" as those enemies of Christ who were actively persecuting believers.

Unless they were cannibals, how would enemies of Christ actually devour Christians? I do not believe that it is far more consistent to understand "the devil" as those enemies of Christ who were actively persecuting believers. There are plenty of places where we read about the devil where the word cannot refer to human enemies of Christ. The temptation of Jesus in the wilderness for example.

Now ask yourself, what makes more sense?

Taking the whole of scripture and its references to Satan/the devil, it makes far more sense to believe that he is a supernatural enemy of God.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Ironically, your quick look at Psalm 22 has given you insight into Peter’s mindset as he prepared the disciples for the persecution that was approaching.

Do you know how many times the word "false accuser" is used in Peter's Epistles?

Once!

Is there anywhere in his letters that defines such a being as the one you believe?

Not once

 

[Hiddenthings]

In that case, I am sorry for misunderstanding.

No issue - the problem is how do we interpret the text?

Over and over again the bible describes the devil/Satan in ways that show he is a created being.

No, it doesn't I'm sorry.

It does show adversaries and false accusers as being many things and people but never a supernatural being.

What I meant (when I thought that you were saying that Christians believe the devil to be a literal lion) was that I don;t believe that he is.

To believe he is and not able to define your "is", is an issue

He seeks to entangle them in sin/disobedience of God, and to draw them away from Christ.

No, human nature does this - all the Scriptures always and only attribute sin to the flesh which needs no help!

Unless they were cannibals, how would enemies of Christ actually devour Christians?

In this context, devouring doesn't refer to a literal act—it symbolizes the reality that there are people in the world who seek to take your life, imprison you, or harm you because of your beliefs. Just as the "lion" is not meant to be taken literally, it's a figure of speech, a warning to believers that political powers will bring harm if they are not watchful in how they live.

I do not believe that it is far more consistent to understand "the devil" as those enemies of Christ who were actively persecuting believers. There are plenty of places where we read about the devil where the word cannot refer to human enemies of Christ.
The temptation of Jesus in the wilderness for example.

Show me.

Taking the whole of scripture and its references to Satan/the devil, it makes far more sense to believe that he is a supernatural enemy of God.

And this is where your misunderstanding lies, and you're not alone in it.

You've correctly identified the context of 1 Peter 5:8 and recognised that Peter’s mind was shaped by Psalm 22, with its warning directed against the enemies (humans) of Christ.

Isn’t this exactly what the Lord taught?

“Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.” — Matthew 10:16

But please, David, don’t take this literally. This, too, is metaphorical language rich in meaning, but not meant to be read in a strictly literal sense.

 

[Hiddenthings]

@David Lamb off topic I noticed your beaches are red? Volcanic?

 

[David Lamb]

Ironically, your quick look at Psalm 22 has given you insight into Peter’s mindset as he prepared the disciples for the persecution that was approaching.

Do you know how many times the word "false accuser" is used in Peter's Epistles?

Once!

Is there anywhere in his letters that defines such a being as you one you believe?

Not once

The word "diabolos" is translated "devil" once in Peter's letters. I have looked at the verse in 30 English translations, and all have "the devil" with the exception of the Diaglot which has: "the opponent of you an accuser." The Greek word "diabolos" is used 36 times in the New Testament, and some of those instance just cannot refer to mere human enemies of Christ. For example:

“He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.” (1Jo 3:8 NKJV)

Now, in the beginning, there were no human beings. Yet John writes, "for the devil has sinned from the beginning."

 

[Hiddenthings]

The word "diabolos" is translated "devil" once in Peter's letters. I have looked at the verse in 30 English translations, and all have "the devil" with the exception of the Diaglot which has: "the opponent of you an accuser." The Greek word "diabolos" is used 36 times in the New Testament, and some of those instance just cannot refer to mere human enemies of Christ. For example:

“He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.” (1Jo 3:8 NKJV)

Now, in the beginning, there were no human beings. Yet John writes, "for the devil has sinned from the beginning."

I appreciate your efforts, David.

Both John and Paul understood that “sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin; and so death spread to all, because all sinned” (Romans 5:12).

Could you point me to a passage in the New Testament that outlines the works of the flesh (or the devil?) I’m sure you know which one I’m referring to.

Also, to help clarify that flesh and devil are interchangeable in this context, consider the writers words in Hebrews:

“Since you David share in flesh and blood, Jesus likewise shared in his humanity so that through death he might destroy the one who holds the power of death—that is, the devil” (Hebrews 2:14).

Here, the devil is synonymous with sin, because it is sin that holds the power of death!

As Paul also says: "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:23).

Hope that helps

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Must be both...in this instance pray did not help Judas but it did Peter.

Ok. I do agree with you concerning the devil but I also don’t believe God is some old white beard man in the sky sitting on a throne. I haven’t been following closely your perspective then on hell or torment. When is this torment? If there is no after life hell that Judas will be cast into for all of eternity to burn…or to be destroyed once and for all by fire. then what will happen to Judas after he hung himself, or burst where his bowels or spleen gushed out? Will God destroy Judas Himself? What is your perspective on God destroying Judas? Will God tell Judas his heart was evil above Peters heart to where even Jesus Christ found it impossible to prevent Judas from handing Jesus over to go to the cross? See, strange for me is …Judas is condemned because he should have been able to not be so hard hearted to where Jesus could have convinced or persuaded Judas not to betray Jesus and then Jesus wouldn’t have had to go to the cross. Yet Peter was rebuked for trying to keep Him from going.

Mostly I’m curious of what you say God will do with Judas in light of their being no eternal hell or a devil to torment Judas any further? its been said torment of the devil is the place all the wicked will be tossed into for their total destruction …whether it is a slow demise that takes all of eternity or quickly. What do you think is the fire that will consume them …is it God whom will consume all the wicked? It does say 2 Thessalonians 2:8-9 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: [9] Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

 

[Hiddenthings]

What you're beginning to see, @David Lamb, is just how nuanced these words truly are. This insight can also shed light on other verses you may have thought you understood, yet perhaps didn't fully grasp.

Over the years, most people I’ve shared this with tend to retreat into their own biases, which is understandable.

We often make the mistake of imposing our assumptions onto a text, and it's not until those assumptions are seriously challenged that we begin to truly examine whether our understanding holds up.

 

[Lambano]

See, strange for me is of Judas is condemned because he should have been able to not be so hard hearted to where Jesus could have convinced him not to betray Jesus and then Jesus wouldn’t have gone to the cross.

Maybe we've got it backwards. Maybe Judas needed a little help to be persuaded to betray Jesus to ensure that He WOULD go to the cross.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Ok. I do agree with you concerning the devil but I also don’t believe God is some old white beard man in the sky sitting on a throne. I haven’t been following closely your perspective then on hell or torment. When is this torment?

Torment is the knowledge of permanent death when eternal life could have been received.

If there is no after life hell that Judas will be cast into for all of eternity to burn…then what will happen to Judas after he hung himself, or burst where his bowels or spleen gushed out?

As David said:

“What profit is there in my death, if I go down to the pit? Will the dust praise you? Will it tell of your faithfulness?” Psalm 30:9

Correct, David...dust cannot praise Him!

Will God destroy Judas Himself?

He is but dust!

What is your perspective on God destroying Judas?

Raised and returned to the ground like all the rejected

Will God tell Judas his heat was evil above Peters heart to where even Jesus Christ found it impossible to prevent Judas from handing Jesus over to go to the cross? See, strange for me is of Judas is condemned because he should have been able to not be so hard hearted to where Jesus could have convinced him not to betray Jesus and then Jesus wouldn’t have gone to the cross.

Mostly I’m curious of what you say God will do with Judas in light of their being no eternal hell or a devil to torment Judas any further?

Like the Pharisees he served.

"In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out." Luke 13:28