Was Peter the first Pope?

[BreadOfLife]

Jesus referred to Peter as a rock as well as to himself as the rock, or foundation, or cornerstone, a symbolic truth reserved for God alone.

Anyway, no, Peter was never a Catholic.

Next someone is going to claim that Moses was a Catholic.

You guys are BIG on denial - but NO substance.
Can you refute ANY of the Protestant scholarship I provided?

 

[Patrick1966]

Next they'll tell us that Christopher Columbus was an American because he discovered (allegedly) the new world.

 

[David in NJ]

That is what we inthe apologetics world call a "denial without substance".
Calling my positiona "crock" with nothing to back it up is sheer impotence.

I gave you a list of Protestant scholarship on the matter - and they ALL agree with ME.
Can you offer ANY evidence to the contrary?

OK - i meet your 'catholic error' with the Sword of the Holy Spirit which is the WORD of God.

Revelation 21:10-14 - And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the holy city of Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, shining with the glory of God. Its radiance was like a most precious jewel, like a jasper, as clear as crystal. The city had a great and high wall with twelve gates inscribed with the names of the twelve tribes of Israel, and twelve angels at the gates. There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south, and three on the west. The wall of the city had twelve foundations bearing the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

You have fallen on the Sword of Truth and shall not Rise unless you repent, forsake idolatry and turn to Christ.

Just as 'father' Abraham did when he heard the Voice of God.

 

[Wrangler]

Getting back to the OP, the case for Peter being the 1st Pope is specious. Ex post facto, several centuries later they deemed a sucession starting with the Apostle. Peter's credentials for being the ambassador to the Roman Gentiles cannot compare to Paul. However, the "this is the rock I build my church on" comment was said to Peter. Catholics make the claim the rock is the man Peter.

This, as opposed to the confession Peter just made - that Christ is the Messiah, has to be considered. Also, consider the implausibility that the all-powerful Creator of the Universe, who brought Jesus back from the dead, would not rely on his own infinite might to achieve his will but the strength of a single, fisherman in the back waters of a remote Roman province.

To say the Catholic claim does not hold up to scrutiny is a cosmic understatement. We are not Peterians for the simple reason that our faith does not depend on Peter. Our faith depends on the man he denied thrice.

 

[David in NJ]

Getting back to the OP, the case for Peter being the 1st Pope is specious. Ex post facto, several centuries later they deemed a sucession starting with the Apostle. Peter's credentials for being the ambassador to the Roman Gentiles cannot compare to Paul. However, the "this is the rock I build my church on" comment was said to Peter. Catholics make the claim the rock is the man Peter.

This, as opposed to the confession Peter just made - that Christ is the Messiah, has to be considered. Also, consider the implausibility that the all-powerful Creator of the Universe, who brought Jesus back from the dead, would not rely on his own infinite might to achieve his will but the strength of a single, fisherman in the back waters of a remote Roman province.

To say the Catholic claim does not hold up to scrutiny is a cosmic understatement. We are not Peterians for the simple reason that our faith does not depend on Peter. Our faith depends on the man he denied thrice.

the ALL Powerful Creator is the WORD that became flesh.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself.
I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.
This command I have received from My Father.”

 

[BreadOfLife]

OK - i meet your 'catholic error' with the Sword of the Holy Spirit which is the WORD of God.

Revelation 21:10-14 - And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the holy city of Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, shining with the glory of God. Its radiance was like a most precious jewel, like a jasper, as clear as crystal. The city had a great and high wall with twelve gates inscribed with the names of the twelve tribes of Israel, and twelve angels at the gates. There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south, and three on the west. The wall of the city had twelve foundations bearing the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

You have fallen on the Sword of Truth and shall not Rise unless you repent, forsake idolatry and turn to Christ.

Just as 'father' Abraham did when he heard the Voice of God.

Ummmm, you besically pasted the verse I was referring to.

Soooooo, can you tell me where I got it wrong??

 

[BreadOfLife]

Getting back to the OP, the case for Peter being the 1st Pope is specious. Ex post facto, several centuries later they deemed a sucession starting with the Apostle. Peter's credentials for being the ambassador to the Roman Gentiles cannot compare to Paul. However, the "this is the rock I build my church on" comment was said to Peter. Catholics make the claim the rock is the man Peter.

This, as opposed to the confession Peter just made - that Christ is the Messiah, has to be considered. Also, consider the implausibility that the all-powerful Creator of the Universe, who brought Jesus back from the dead, would not rely on his own infinite might to achieve his will but the strength of a single, fisherman in the back waters of a remote Roman province.

To say the Catholic claim does not hold up to scrutiny is a cosmic understatement. We are not Peterians for the simple reason that our faith does not depend on Peter. Our faith depends on the man he denied thrice.

You’re NOT a student of history - ARE you?

In his treatise, Against Heresies in the SECOND century - Irenaeus lists all of the Popes from his own time all the way back to Peter.

This isn’t “centuries later” – but then ay least you got to use a cool phrase like “ex post facto” . . .

 

[David in NJ]

Ummmm, you besically pasted the verse I was referring to.

Soooooo, can you tell me where I got it wrong??

The Twelve Apostles are twelve separate foundations that are built upon 'the Foundation' which is CHRIST.

For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it.
For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. - 1 Cor 3:9-11

Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets,
Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. - Ephesians 2:19-22


The Apostle Peter removed himself from any confusion as to Who the Foundation IS - 1 Peter ch2

“See, I lay in Zion a stone,
a chosen and precious cornerstone;
and the one who believes in Him
will never be put to shame.”
To you who believe, then, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
“The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”

Apostle Peter says: "For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God."

 

[amigo de christo]

Peter is the 'Rock" is a 'crock' that came from men of the earth who were VOID of the Holy Spirit of Truth.

Peter and all the saints through all ages will one day JUDGE those popes who lied to the masses big time .
Many popes will wail on that day as will many of their followers .
Mary with all saints will one day judge that hole for all the darkness it produced .
And CHRIST will say to many , I NEVER KNEW YOU , depart from me into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels .
Peter would have rebuked that place and them popes . Mary would have rebuked it , heck
all those angels they pray too would have rebuked them all .
That place is a mad house and i pray to GOD that every single person comes out from IT before its too late .
And the ol protestant realm aint looking any better as the all inclusive delusion has fast taken hold of it too .
WE must stick to our bible and continue to exhort one another daily and exhort all . While there still be time to do so .

 

[David in NJ]

Ummmm, you besically pasted the verse I was referring to.

Soooooo, can you tell me where I got it wrong??

SEE Post #28

Place Post #28 in your heart along with this Truth:

Every house has foundations called walls, and those walls sit on a foundation called footings and those footings sit upon the FIRST Foundation.

“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them,
I will show you whom he is like: He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock.
And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock.
But he who heard and did nothing is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, against which the stream beat vehemently; and immediately it fell. And the ruin of that house was great.”
Luke 6:46-49

 

[David in NJ]

Peter and all the saints through all ages will one day JUDGE those popes who lied to the masses big time .
Many popes will wail on that day as will many of their followers .
Mary with all saints will one day judge that hole for all the darkness it produced .
And CHRIST will say to many , I NEVER KNEW YOU , depart from me into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels .
Peter would have rebuked that place and them popes . Mary would have rebuked it , heck
all those angels they pray too would have rebuked them all .
That place is a mad house and i pray to GOD that every single person comes out from IT before its too late .
And the ol protestant realm aint looking any better as the all inclusive delusion has fast taken hold of it too .
WE must stick to our bible and continue to exhort one another daily and exhort all . While there still be time to do so .

If Peter and ALL Twelve Apostle were in Rome today = they would rebuke and condemn the Harlot and then She would do what Jezebel does:
"Off with their heads"

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS
OF THE EARTH.

I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.
And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.

 

[amigo de christo]

If Peter and ALL Twelve Apostle were in Rome today = they would rebuke and condemn the Harlot and then She would do what Jezebel does:
"Off with their heads"

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS
OF THE EARTH.

I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.
And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.

Get ready my friend for the harlot has long led in this mystery all inclusive lie .
Her cup of fornication is increasing and so too will the blood of the lambs who would not join her and the world and all religions .
ITS COMING DAVID . SOON as the all inclusive ecumincal lie has ran its course
it will be time for the next round of massive crusades against all who rejected the lie .
ONLY THIS TIME ITS GONNA BE MASSIVE My friend . VERY massive , very quick and world wide .
The govts , education systems , churches and other religoins have all now made a convenant to be as one
WITH THE HARLOT . And she eats , she drinks and wipes her mouth and says alas i have done nothing wrong .
I am no widow she cries .
She sits on the corner and cries , all who desire wisdom , all who desire this unity
come and sit at my table of love and tolerance . But those who go unto her know not
that the dead are there and that her chambers lead right to hell . THEY DONT know david .
The peoples that are blinded by her call have no idea that the very GOD she claims she knows
IS GONNA JUDGE HER and all her children on the DAY OF THE LORD .
But the lambs know and they have heeded the call , COME YE OUT FROM AMONGST HER
partake not of her sins , FOR STRONG IS THE LORD GOD WHO SHALL JUDGE HER .

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Twelve Apostles are twelve separate foundations that are built upon 'the Foundation' which is CHRIST.

For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it.
For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. - 1 Cor 3:9-11

Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets,
Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. - Ephesians 2:19-22


The Apostle Peter removed himself from any confusion as to Who the Foundation IS - 1 Peter ch2

“See, I lay in Zion a stone,
a chosen and precious cornerstone;
and the one who believes in Him
will never be put to shame.”
To you who believe, then, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
“The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”

Apostle Peter says: "For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God."

Sooooo tell me – in 1 Peter 2:4, Peter says that Jesus is “the living stone rejected by men”. However – in the next verse – he says that we’re ALL “living stones built into a spiritual house”.
Is Peter LYING?

In Matt. 16:18. Jesus states emphatically: “I will build my church.”
However, in 1 Cor. 3:10, Paul says that other people are building on the one foundation who is Jesus.
Is Paul LYING?

In John 10:1, we read that Jesus is the Good Shepherd.
BUT, in John 21:15-17, we clearly see that Jesus has appointed Peter to shepherd His flock.
Is John LYING?

What we have in EVERY case here is ONE metaphor being used for TWO different things.
The SAME is true for Peter being the Rock of Matt. 16:18.

Jesus spoke Aramaic to His Apostles. The ONLY word for “Rock” in Aramaic is Kepha.
He told Simon:
“You are Kepha and on this Kepha I will build my church.”
This is why Paul refers to him – NOT as “Peter” in his letters – but as “Cephas”.

 

[amigo de christo]

If Peter and ALL Twelve Apostle were in Rome today = they would rebuke and condemn the Harlot and then She would do what Jezebel does:
"Off with their heads"

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS
OF THE EARTH.

I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.
And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.

She now sits over jerusalem too my friend . Her all inclusive broad way to GOD , her religion of lies
has overtaken the nations of the world . Its why we seeing even muslim countries building these so called
houses of GOD and all religoins joining to be as one . AND it is being centered RIGHT IN JERUSALEM TOO .
SOON many lambs will bleed for the prescious faith of our LORD . But we must not fear man nor what he can do .
Expose the harlot and her lies , point only to CHRIST , only to FAITH IN HIM
and all things HE did teach and later the apostels left us in that bible . ITS a war for the souls of men
and the HARLOT has hindered many from entering into the KINGDOM , of which SHE CLIAMS SHE HOLDS THE KEYS .
But she LIES . The only kindgom she holds the keys too , IS THE KINGDOM OF THIS WORLD and of the mystery
of INQUITY . march onwards my friend till the last breath . Faithful to CHRIST and loving not our lives
even unto death .

 

[BreadOfLife]

If Peter and ALL Twelve Apostle were in Rome today = they would rebuke and condemn the Harlot and then She would do what Jezebel does:
"Off with their heads"

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS
OF THE EARTH.

I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.
And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.

Timne for a Bible Lesson . . .

The Whore of Babylon is not a Church - but a city, a people.
Apostate Jerusalem is the most likey candidate . . .

1. She "sits on 7 HILLS" (Rev. 17:9)
- Vatican Hill is NOT one of the 7 hills of Rome: Aventine Hill, Caelian Hill, Capitoline Hill, Esquiline Hill, Palatine Hill, Quirinal Hill, Viminal Hill
- Jerusalem DOES sit on 7 hills: Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet, Mount of Corruption, Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built

2. She is called "The Great City" (Rev. 17:18)
- Jerusalem is called the "Great City" - “where also their Lord was crucified” (Rev. 11:8).

3. She is "Drunk on the blood of God's Holy people" (Rev 17:6)
- Not ONLY did Jerusalem kill the prophets (Matt. 23:37, Luke 13:34) - she persecuted the Early Church (Gal. 4:9, 2 Cor 11:23-26).

4. "Jerusalem is the "Faithful City" has become a Whore.
- Isaiah 1:21 laments, "How the FAITHFUL CITY HAS BECOME A WHORE, she who was full of justice! Righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers."

We read that the “ten horns” and the beast will hate the prostitute. “They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire” (Rev. 17:16).

What happened in 70 AD?
Rome destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple.

 

[David in NJ]

Get ready my friend for the harlot has long led in this mystery all inclusive lie .
Her cup of fornication is increasing and so too will the blood of the lambs who would not join her and the world and all religions .
ITS COMING DAVID . SOON as the all inclusive ecumincal lie has ran its course
it will be time for the next round of massive crusades against all who rejected the lie .
ONLY THIS TIME ITS GONNA BE MASSIVE My friend . VERY massive , very quick and world wide .
The govts , education systems , churches and other religoins have all now made a convenant to be as one
WITH THE HARLOT . And she eats , she drinks and wipes her mouth and says alas i have done nothing wrong .
I am no widow she cries .
She sits on the corner and cries , all who desire wisdom , all who desire this unity
come and sit at my table of love and tolerance . But those who go unto her know not
that the dead are there and that her chambers lead right to hell . THEY DONT know david .
The peoples that are blinded by her call have no idea that the very GOD she claims she knows
IS GONNA JUDGE HER and all her children on the DAY OF THE LORD .
But the lambs know and they have heeded the call , COME YE OUT FROM AMONGST HER
partake not of her sins , FOR STRONG IS THE LORD GOD WHO SHALL JUDGE HER .

The Harlot has many children who have rejoined Her and have their part in the 'Lie'.
Her children will join in on the unanimous condemnation of the Saints whereby they will hand over the Saints to the 'authorities'.
Just as the did to Jesus.

 

[BreadOfLife]

SEE Post #28

Place Post #28 in your heart along with this Truth:

Every house has foundations called walls, and those walls sit on a foundation called footings and those footings sit upon the FIRST Foundation.

“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them,
I will show you whom he is like: He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock.
And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock.
But he who heard and did nothing is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, against which the stream beat vehemently; and immediately it fell. And the ruin of that house was great.”
Luke 6:46-49

See post #33.

 

[David in NJ]

Timne for a Bible Lesson . . .

The Whore of Babylon is not a Church - but a city, a people.
Apostate Jerusalem is the most likey candidate . . .

1. She "sits on 7 HILLS" (Rev. 17:9)
- Vatican Hill is NOT one of the 7 hills of Rome: Aventine Hill, Caelian Hill, Capitoline Hill, Esquiline Hill, Palatine Hill, Quirinal Hill, Viminal Hill
- Jerusalem DOES sit on 7 hills: Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet, Mount of Corruption, Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built

2. She is called "The Great City" (Rev. 17:18)
- Jerusalem is called the "Great City" - “where also their Lord was crucified” (Rev. 11:8).

3. She is "Drunk on the blood of God's Holy people" (Rev 17:6)
- Not ONLY did Jerusalem kill the prophets (Matt. 23:37, Luke 13:34) - she persecuted the Early Church (Gal. 4:9, 2 Cor 11:23-26).

4. "Jerusalem is the "Faithful City" has become a Whore.
- Isaiah 1:21 laments, "How the FAITHFUL CITY HAS BECOME A WHORE, she who was full of justice! Righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers."

We read that the “ten horns” and the beast will hate the prostitute. “They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire” (Rev. 17:16).

What happened in 70 AD?
Rome destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple.

Excellent Post!

I'm stepping out the door now but i will address this when i get back.

 

[David in NJ]

See post #33.

See Post #38

 

[amigo de christo]

The Harlot has many children who have rejoined Her and have their part in the 'Lie'.
Her children will join in on the unanimous condemnation of the Saints whereby they will hand over the Saints to the 'authorities'.
Just as the did to Jesus.

And they will do it just as it was done to Christ . The religoious could not put him to death
so they delivered him over unto the gentile ruler .
THIS pattern has been the same . the harlot had many killed . but she herself turned them over
unto the gentile kings . THIS aint no new pattern , BUT IT WILL BE MUCH WORSE. by worse i mean a much larger number .
The laws are coming in my friend . Churches are already being groomed
to be on the lookout for those who dont conform . AND SOON enough
many will be reported to the authorities by these so called sold out churches and nations . ITS COMING DAVID .
And the lambs shall not fear man or what he can do . Faithful to CHRIST no matter the cost . BUT IT IS COMING DAVID .
As you WELL KNOW IT IS . and the religions of the world will believe they are doing the will of GOD
when folks like us get rounded up and even killed . ITS Not a new pattern EITHER .
ONLY again this one will be HUGE . THE LORD WILL END the harlot on HIS DAY .
TILL then we had better be ready to suffer and die for HIS NAME sake .