Was Peter the first Pope?

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rockytopva

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I have kinfolk from Saginaw Michigan and I used to love visiting the Catholic church there. Walking up the steps as a boy and through them big doors into a magnificent sanctuary was a real treat. But... I believe the Catholic church will have company in heaven... Namely...

Messianic
Oriental Orthodox
Greek Orthodox
Protestant
Methodist
Charismatic

st-marys-main-photo.jpg
 
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BreadOfLife

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I have kinfolk from Saginaw Michigan and I used to love visiting the Catholic church there. Walking up the steps as a boy and through them big doors into a magnificent sanctuary was a real treat. But... I believe the Catholic church will have company in heaven... Namely...

Messianic
Oriental Orthodox
Greek Orthodox
Protestant
Methodist
Charismatic

st-marys-main-photo.jpg
I don't doubt that.
The Church doesn't teach that ONLY Catholics will be saved.
 

rockytopva

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I don't doubt that.
The Church doesn't teach that ONLY Catholics will be saved.
I also don't elevate any denominations here knowing we all have issues to contend with. I am a member Appalachian Conference Pentecostal Holiness, but the glory days of revival are long gone.
 

ScottA

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Next they'll tell us that Christopher Columbus was an American because he discovered (allegedly) the new world.

Perhaps not...but he was of the namesake of Christ, came forth of Saint Mary (Santa Maria) unto the new world, One of three. ;)
 

BreadOfLife

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You came to a false conclusion:
"What we have in EVERY case here is ONE metaphor being used for TWO different things.
The SAME is true for Peter being the Rock of Matt. 16:18."
Can you elaborate?
HOW is this a false conclusion?

I have you THREE Scriptural exanples of how a single metaphor can be used for two thngs.
Where did I go wrong?
 

David in NJ

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Can you elaborate?
HOW is this a false conclusion?

I have you THREE Scriptural exanples of how a single metaphor can be used for two thngs.
Where did I go wrong?
Peter is not the Rock.

Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” = Is the Rock

Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Notice JESUS did not say 'on you Peter I will build My church.

JESUS said to Peter = "on this Rock(Petra)" = Himself
 

Enoch111

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It doesn't matter if Peter was "the first Pope" or not. The office of the Pope is not Biblical. It is an invention of the Catholic denomination.
Even the Orthodox churches reject the idea of the supremacy of the pope. But that will not change the position of the Vatican or the CC. As to Pope Francis, he is a TOTAL FRAUD. Yet no one has asked him to step down and go home. I believe the replacement of Benedict was pure politics.
 
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David in NJ

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A pebble can feel like a rock under certain circumstances.
Not sure what you mean by this?

Maybe, we as Living Stones can sense the Power of the Holy Spirit as those Saints who face hardship and pressure even to the point of death yet they are strengthened by the LORD and they overcome - thus feeling the Presence of the Rock upon which they stand.

"Not by might nor by power but by My Spirit says the LORD"
 
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amigo de christo

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Not sure what you mean by this?

Maybe, we as Living Stones can sense the Power of the Holy Spirit as those Saints who face hardship and pressure even to the point of death yet they are strengthened by the LORD and they overcome - thus feeling the Presence of the Rock upon which they stand.

"Not by might nor by power but by My Spirit says the LORD"
This is me singing to the choir again , but never bow to the RCC . We shall follow Christ . Let the LORD be praised .
 

Illuminator

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You are mistaken my friend. The Catholic Church teaches that Mary calls on us to serve her.
That's 3 times you've been off topic. Trying to explain a rosary to hostile anti-Catholics is like trying to teach calculus to a 2 year old. For the 3rd time, the topic is Peter, not Mary. Besides, the 12 promises given by Mary to a saint is PRIVATE REVELATION, and no Catholic is obligated to accept them as official teaching, even the miracles at Lourdes or Fatima, another indicator of your profound ignorance. You confuse devotion with doctrine.
What is deemed worthy of belief by the Church does not mean it must be believed. Again, the topic is Peter, not Mary. You have no forum manners.
 
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Illuminator

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Where is "Pope" mentioned in the Bible?
"Pope" is an English word, it's transliterated from the Italian "pappa", which comes from the Greek word πατήρ.
"Trinity" and "Incarnation" is not mentioned in the Bible either, because they are English words.

Strong's Number: G3962 Greek Base Word: πατήρ Usage: Father, parent Definition: A "father" (literally or figuratively, near or more remote).

The office of pope is referred to in several places in the Bible. Let's start with Isaiah.

Isa. 22: 19 I will thrust you from your office, and you will be pulled down from your station.

Shebna is described as having an "office" and a "station." An office, in order for it to be an office, has successors. In order for an earthly kingdom to last, a succession of representatives is required. This was the case in the Old Covenant kingdom, and it is the case in the New Covenant kingdom which fulfills the Old Covenant. Jesus our King is in heaven, but He has appointed a chief steward over His household with a plan for a succession of representatives.

Isa.22:20 In that day I will call my servant Eli'akim the son of Hilki'ah,
Isa. 22:20 - in the old Davidic kingdom, Eliakim succeeds Shebna as the chief steward of the household of God. The kingdom employs a mechanism of dynastic succession. King David was dead for centuries, but his kingdom is preserved through a succession of representatives.

Isa.22:21 and I will clothe him with your robe, and will bind your girdle on him, and will commit your authority to his hand; and he shall be a father (πατήρto) the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah.
Isa. 22:21 - Eliakim is called “father” or “papa” of God's people. The word Pope used by Catholics to describe the chief steward of the earthly kingdom simply means papa or father in Italian. This is why Catholics call the leader of the Church "Pope." The Pope is the father of God's people, the chief steward of the earthly kingdom and Christ's representative on earth.

Isa.22:22 And I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David; he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
Isa. 22:22 - we see that the keys of the kingdom pass from Shebna to Eliakim. Thus, the keys are used not only as a symbol of authority, but also to facilitate succession. The keys of Christ's kingdom have passed from Peter to Linus all the way to our current Pope with an unbroken lineage for almost 2,000 years.

23: And I will fasten him, and he will become a throne of honor to his father's house.
"like a peg in a sure place" is analogous to tent pegs to secure a tent to keep the wind from blowing it down. Tents were common at the time so everyone understood what this meant. Jesus established 12 thrones of honor in Matthew 28:19. They didn't vanish.

Rev. 1:18; 3:7; 9:1; 20:1 - Jesus' "keys" undeniably represent authority. By using the word "keys," Jesus gives Peter authority on earth over the new Davidic kingdom, and this was not seriously questioned by anyone until the Protestant revolt 1,500 years later after Peter’s investiture.

Revelation 3:7 "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: `The words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David, who opens and no one shall shut, who shuts and no one opens.

The key of David, a sign of authority, didn't die with Peter.

Matthew 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Isa. 22:22 - we see that the keys of the kingdom pass from Shebna to Eliakim. Thus, the keys are used not only as a symbol of authority, but also to facilitate succession. The keys of Christ's kingdom have passed from Peter to Linus all the way to our current Pope with an unbroken lineage for almost 2,000 years.

23: And I will fasten him like a peg in a sure place, and he will become a throne of honor to his father's house.
Tents were common in those days, and everyone understood what pegs were for. It's an analogy. Jesus established 12 thrones of honor in Matthew 19:28. They are not analogies.

Rev. 1:18; 3:7; 9:1; 20:1 - Jesus' "keys" undeniably represent authority. By using the word "keys," Jesus gives Peter authority on earth over the new Davidic kingdom, and this was not seriously questioned by anyone until the Protestant reformation 1,500 years later after Peter’s investiture.

Revelation 3:7 "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: `The words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David, who opens and no one shall shut, who shuts and no one opens.
The key of David is not temporary or disposable.

Matthew 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Matt. 16:19 - whatever Peter binds or looses on earth is bound or loosed in heaven / when the Prime Minister to the King opens, no one shuts. This "binding and loosing" authority allows the keeper of the keys to establish "halakah," or rules of conduct for the members of the kingdom he serves.

Jer. 33:17 For thus saith the Lord: There shall not be cut off from David a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel.
Jeremiah prophesies that David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the earthly House of Israel. Either this is a false prophecy, or David has a successor of representatives throughout history.

Dan. 2:44 But in the days of those kingdoms the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, and his kingdom shall not be delivered up to another people, and it shall break in pieces, and shall consume all these kingdoms, and itself shall stand for ever.
Daniel prophesies an earthly kingdom that will never be destroyed. Either this is a false prophecy, or the earthly kingdom requires succession.
 

Illuminator

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Peter is the "Rock" od Matt. 16:18 just as Abraham is the "Rock" of Isaiah 50:1-2
When in doubt - go to your own Protestant scholaarship on the matter . . .


W.F. Albright (Protestant) and C.S. Mann
“[Peter] is not a name, but an appellation and a play on words. There is no evidence of Peter or Kephas as a name before Christian times….Peter as Rock will be the foundation of the future community. Jesus, not quoting the Old Testament, here uses Aramaic, not Hebrew, and so uses the only Aramaic word that would serve his purpose. In view of the background of v. 19…one must dismiss as confessional interpretation any attempt to see this rock as meaning the faith, or the messianic confession, of Peter. To deny the pre-eminent position of Peter among the disciples or in the early Christian community is a denial of the evidence…The interest in Peter’s failures and vacillations does not detract from this pre-eminence; rather, it emphasizes it. Had Peter been a lesser figure his behavior would have been of far less consequence.”
(The Anchor Bible; Matthew [Garden City, N.Y.: Doubleday & Co., 1971], 195)

Albert Barnes (Nineteenth-Century Presbyterian)
"The meaning of this phrase may be thus expressed: ‘Thou, in saying that I am the Son of God, hast called me by a name expressive of my true character. I, also, have given to thee a name expressive of your character. I have called you Peter, a rock. . . . I see that you are worthy of the name and will be a distinguished support of my religion"
[Barnes’ Notes on the New Testament, 170].

John Broadus (Nineteenth-Century Calvinistic Baptist)
"As Peter means rock, the natural interpretation is that ‘upon this rock’ means upon thee. . . . It is an even more far-fetched and harsh play upon words if we understand the rock to be Christ and a very feeble and almost unmeaning play upon words if the rock is Peter’s confession" [Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew, 356].

Craig L. Blomberg (Baptist)
"The expression ‘this rock’ almost certainly refers to Peter, following immediately after his name, just as the words following ‘the Christ’ in verse 16 applied to Jesus. The play on words in the Greek between Peter’s name (Petros) and the word ‘rock’ (petra) makes sense only if Peter is the Rock and if Jesus is about to explain the significance of this identification" [New American Commentary: Matthew, 22:252].

J. Knox Chamblin (Contemporary Presbyterian)
"By the words ‘this rock’ Jesus means not himself, nor his teaching, nor God the Father, nor Peter’s confession, but Peter himself. The phrase is immediately preceded by a direct and emphatic reference to Peter. As Jesus identifies himself as the builder, the rock on which he builds is most naturally understood as someone (or something) other than Jesus himself"
["Matthew" in Evangelical Commentary on the Bible, 742].

R.T. France (Anglican)
“Jesus now sums up Peter's significance in a name, Peter . . . It describes not so much Peter's character (he did not prove to be 'rock-like' in terms of stability or reliability), but his function, as the foundation-stone of Jesus' church. The feminine word for 'rock', 'petra', is necessarily changed to the masculine 'petros' (stone) to give a man's name, but the word-play is unmistakable (and in Aramaic would be even more so, as the same form 'kepha' would occur in both places). It is only Protestant overreaction to the Catholic claim . . . that what is here said of Peter applies also to the later bishops of Rome, that has led some to claim that the 'rock' here is not Peter at all but the faith which he has just confessed. "The word-play, and the whole structure of the passage, demands that this verse is every bit as much Jesus’ declaration about Peter as verse 16 was Peter’s declaration about Jesus. Of course it is on the basis of Peter’s confession that Jesus declares his role as the Church’s foundation, but it is to Peter, not his confession, that the rock metaphor is applied. . . Peter is to be the foundation-stone of Jesus' new community . . . which will last forever.”
(Tyndale New Testament Commentaries, [Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1985], vol. 1: Matthew, 254, 256)

William Hendriksen (Reformed Christian Church, Professor of New Testament Literature at Calvin Seminary)
“The meaning is, “You are Peter, that is Rock, and upon this rock, that is, on you, Peter I will build my church.” Our Lord, speaking Aramaic, probably said, “And I say to you, you are Kepha, and on this kepha I will build my church.” Jesus, then, is promising Peter that he is going to build his church on him! I accept this view.”
(New Testament Commentary: Exposition of the Gospel According to Matthew [Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 1973], page 647JPK page 14]

Donald Hagner (Contemporary Evangelical)
"The frequent attempts that have been made, largely in the past, to deny [that Peter is the rock] in favor of the view that the confession itself is the rock . . . seem to be largely motivated by Protestant prejudice against a passage that is used by the Catholics to justify the papacy"
(Word Biblical Commentary 33b:470).

David Hill (Presbyterian)
“It is on Peter himself, the confessor of his Messiahship, that Jesus will build the Church…Attempts to interpret the ‘rock’ as something other than Peter in person (e.g., his faith, the truth revealed to him) are due to Protestant bias, and introduce to the statement a degree of subtlety which is highly unlikely.” (The Gospel of Matthew, New Century Bible Commentary [Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1972], 261)

Herman Ridderbos (Contemporary Dutch Reformed)
"It is well known that the Greek word petra translated ‘rock’ here is different from the proper name Peter. The slight difference between them has no special importance, however. The most likely explanation for the change from petros (‘Peter’) to petra is that petra was the normal word for ‘rock.’ . . . There is no good reason to think that Jesus switched from petros to petra to show that he was not speaking of the man Peter but of his confession as the foundation of the Church. The words ‘on this rock [petra]’ indeed refer to Peter"
[Bible Student’s Commentary: Matthew, 303].


Donald A. Carson (Baptist)
“On the basis of the distinction between 'petros' . . . and 'petra' . . . , many have attempted to avoid identifying Peter as the rock on which Jesus builds his church. Peter is a mere 'stone,' it is alleged; but Jesus himself is the 'rock' . . . Others adopt some other distinction . . . Yet if it were not for Protestant reactions against extremes of Catholic interpretation, it is doubtful whether many would have taken 'rock' to be anything or anyone other than Peter . . . The Greek makes the distinction between 'petros' and 'petra' simply because it is trying to preserve the pun, and in Greek the feminine 'petra' could not very well serve as a masculine name . . . Had Matthew wanted to say no more than that Peter was a stone in contrast with Jesus the Rock, the more common word would have been 'lithos' ('stone' of almost any size). Then there would have been no pun - and that is just the point! . . . In this passage Jesus is the builder of the church and it would be a strange mixture of metaphors that also sees him within the same clauses as its foundation . . .”

(Expositor's Bible Commentary, [Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1984], vol. 8: Matthew, Mark, Luke (Matthew: D.A. Carson), 368)
For the Protestant Reformers to rationalize breaking away from what was universally acknowledged in their culture as the Christian Church, it was necessary for them to deny the Catholic Church’s authority. To maintain their positions, they were forced to portray it as a kind of “anti-Church” that was unjustly claiming the prerogatives of Christ’s true (but invisible) Church.

Their chief target was, of course, the pope. To justify breaking away from the successor of Peter, they had to undercut the Petrine office itself. They were forced to deny the plain reading of Matthew 16:18—that Jesus made Peter the rock on which he would build his Church.

More recent Protestants have been able to back away from the position that early Protestants felt forced to make and have been able to admit that Peter is, indeed, the rock. It remains to be seen whether they will start drawing the necessary inferences from this fact.
 
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