Was Peter the first Pope?

[RR144]

The tradition that the Roman Catholic Church is the true church established by Jesus Christ is based on the following scripture, which we will need to examine in order to come to the correct conclusion.

Mat 16:15-19 (GNB)"What about you?" he asked them. "Who do you say I am?" (16) Simon Peter answered, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God." (17) "Good for you, Simon son of John!" answered Jesus. "For this truth did not come to you from any human being, but it was given to you directly by my Father in heaven. (18) And so I tell you, Peter: you are a rock, and on this rock foundation I will build my church, and not even death will ever be able to overcome it. (19) I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven; what you prohibit on earth will be prohibited in heaven, and what you permit on earth will be permitted in heaven."

Jesus says, “on this rock foundation I will build my church”. So we have to ask ourselves what is the “rock foundation”.

Is it Peter?

Is it Peter’s confession that Jesus is the Messiah?

It makes a huge difference.

God gave Jesus 12 Apostles. We know that John was Jesus’ favorite. We also know that Jesus had three favorites: Peter, James and John. We find out later that the Apostle Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles. The Apostle Paul is the one who started the Roman congregations as well as many in Asia Minor. Not Peter.

We know there are 12 Apostles to the Lamb. In Revelation 12 the woman (who is the church, the Bride of Christ) has 12 stars (the 12 Apostles). The New Jerusalem had 12 foundations, the names of the 12 Apostles.

Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Twelve is a very important number with God. Israel was made up of 12s as well. Revelation was written sixty years after Jesus’ crucifixion and ascension and still there only the twelve apostles, no more no less. There is no transference of apostleship, no apostolic succession.

To single out one Apostle as the most important, in my estimation would take away from the singleness of our Lord Jesus Christ. He is the foundation of the Church.

So we have to go back to the questions. Is Peter the Foundation or is it Jesus as the Messiah?

We cannot build a doctrine around one scripture. We are told in God’s Law that it is by two or three witnesses is a thing established. So we must find other scriptures.

Heb 12:2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

1Co 3:11 For God has already placed Jesus Christ as the one and only foundation, and no other foundation can be laid.

Isa 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Act 4:10-12 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. (11) This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. (12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Eph 2:20-22 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; (21) In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: (22) In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Eph 4:10-12 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) (11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; (12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

1Co 12:27-29 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. (28) And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. (29) Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

When I think about the scriptures I just posted, one thing sticks out very strikingly—Jesus is the foundation—the rock which the church is built on and next is the 12 Apostles, not just one. So if that is the case with these scriptures, certainly Jesus’ words must harmonize with the rest of the Word.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The name Peter which Jesus gave to him, means rock. Strong's G4074 ΠεÌτρος Petros pet'-ros. Apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than G3037); as a name, Petrus, an apostle: - Peter, rock. Compare G2786.

So he says, “That thou art Petros (a piece of rock), and upon this Petra (mass of rock) I will build my church.

G4073 ΠεÌτρα petra pet'-ra. Feminine of the same as G4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively): - rock.

It is interesting that Jesus doesn’t use the same word that is translated Rock. He made a difference. I think that is an important difference. Jesus is the massive rock.

Rom_9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

1Co_10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

1Pe_2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

It is interesting also that in each one of these scriptures that talks about Jesus as a rock—the word is Petra—the massive rock.

So, we can see that this scripture is in harmony with all the others that Jesus is the foundation which the Church is built on and not Peter.

Since this is the only scripture that I know of that the Roman Catholic Church uses to say they are the one and only true Church because Peter was the first pope, and we see what that scripture is actually saying, then we have to come to the conclusion that all 12 Apostles are important and so No, the Roman Catholic Church is not the True Church established by Jesus.

When the word “Church” is used in the scripture it is not talking about an organization, it is talking about the entire congregation of spirit-begotten members. There is no priests/laity taught by Jesus. All are brethren, all have the same standing before God.

 

[Jim B]

It doesn't matter if Peter was "the first Pope" or not. The office of the Pope is not Biblical. It is an invention of the Catholic denomination.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Peter is the "Rock" od Matt. 16:18 just as Abraham is the "Rock" of Isaiah 50:1-2
When in doubt - go to your own Protestant scholaarship on the matter . . .

W.F. Albright (Protestant) and C.S. Mann
“[Peter] is not a name, but an appellation and a play on words. There is no evidence of Peter or Kephas as a name before Christian times….Peter as Rock will be the foundation of the future community. Jesus, not quoting the Old Testament, here uses Aramaic, not Hebrew, and so uses the only Aramaic word that would serve his purpose. In view of the background of v. 19…one must dismiss as confessional interpretation any attempt to see this rock as meaning the faith, or the messianic confession, of Peter. To deny the pre-eminent position of Peter among the disciples or in the early Christian community is a denial of the evidence…The interest in Peter’s failures and vacillations does not detract from this pre-eminence; rather, it emphasizes it. Had Peter been a lesser figure his behavior would have been of far less consequence.”
(The Anchor Bible; Matthew [Garden City, N.Y.: Doubleday & Co., 1971], 195)

Albert Barnes (Nineteenth-Century Presbyterian)
"The meaning of this phrase may be thus expressed: ‘Thou, in saying that I am the Son of God, hast called me by a name expressive of my true character. I, also, have given to thee a name expressive of your character. I have called you Peter, a rock. . . . I see that you are worthy of the name and will be a distinguished support of my religion"
[Barnes’ Notes on the New Testament, 170].

John Broadus (Nineteenth-Century Calvinistic Baptist)
"As Peter means rock, the natural interpretation is that ‘upon this rock’ means upon thee. . . . It is an even more far-fetched and harsh play upon words if we understand the rock to be Christ and a very feeble and almost unmeaning play upon words if the rock is Peter’s confession" [Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew, 356].

Craig L. Blomberg (Baptist)
"The expression ‘this rock’ almost certainly refers to Peter, following immediately after his name, just as the words following ‘the Christ’ in verse 16 applied to Jesus. The play on words in the Greek between Peter’s name (Petros) and the word ‘rock’ (petra) makes sense only if Peter is the Rock and if Jesus is about to explain the significance of this identification" [New American Commentary: Matthew, 22:252].

J. Knox Chamblin (Contemporary Presbyterian)
"By the words ‘this rock’ Jesus means not himself, nor his teaching, nor God the Father, nor Peter’s confession, but Peter himself. The phrase is immediately preceded by a direct and emphatic reference to Peter. As Jesus identifies himself as the builder, the rock on which he builds is most naturally understood as someone (or something) other than Jesus himself"
["Matthew" in Evangelical Commentary on the Bible, 742].

R.T. France (Anglican)
“Jesus now sums up Peter's significance in a name, Peter . . . It describes not so much Peter's character (he did not prove to be 'rock-like' in terms of stability or reliability), but his function, as the foundation-stone of Jesus' church. The feminine word for 'rock', 'petra', is necessarily changed to the masculine 'petros' (stone) to give a man's name, but the word-play is unmistakable (and in Aramaic would be even more so, as the same form 'kepha' would occur in both places). It is only Protestant overreaction to the Catholic claim . . . that what is here said of Peter applies also to the later bishops of Rome, that has led some to claim that the 'rock' here is not Peter at all but the faith which he has just confessed. "The word-play, and the whole structure of the passage, demands that this verse is every bit as much Jesus’ declaration about Peter as verse 16 was Peter’s declaration about Jesus. Of course it is on the basis of Peter’s confession that Jesus declares his role as the Church’s foundation, but it is to Peter, not his confession, that the rock metaphor is applied. . . Peter is to be the foundation-stone of Jesus' new community . . . which will last forever.”
(Tyndale New Testament Commentaries, [Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1985], vol. 1: Matthew, 254, 256)

William Hendriksen (Reformed Christian Church, Professor of New Testament Literature at Calvin Seminary)
“The meaning is, “You are Peter, that is Rock, and upon this rock, that is, on you, Peter I will build my church.” Our Lord, speaking Aramaic, probably said, “And I say to you, you are Kepha, and on this kepha I will build my church.” Jesus, then, is promising Peter that he is going to build his church on him! I accept this view.”
(New Testament Commentary: Exposition of the Gospel According to Matthew [Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 1973], page 647JPK page 14]

Donald Hagner (Contemporary Evangelical)
"The frequent attempts that have been made, largely in the past, to deny [that Peter is the rock] in favor of the view that the confession itself is the rock . . . seem to be largely motivated by Protestant prejudice against a passage that is used by the Catholics to justify the papacy"
(Word Biblical Commentary 33b:470).

David Hill (Presbyterian)
“It is on Peter himself, the confessor of his Messiahship, that Jesus will build the Church…Attempts to interpret the ‘rock’ as something other than Peter in person (e.g., his faith, the truth revealed to him) are due to Protestant bias, and introduce to the statement a degree of subtlety which is highly unlikely.” (The Gospel of Matthew, New Century Bible Commentary [Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1972], 261)

Herman Ridderbos (Contemporary Dutch Reformed)
"It is well known that the Greek word petra translated ‘rock’ here is different from the proper name Peter. The slight difference between them has no special importance, however. The most likely explanation for the change from petros (‘Peter’) to petra is that petra was the normal word for ‘rock.’ . . . There is no good reason to think that Jesus switched from petros to petra to show that he was not speaking of the man Peter but of his confession as the foundation of the Church. The words ‘on this rock [petra]’ indeed refer to Peter"
[Bible Student’s Commentary: Matthew, 303].

Donald A. Carson (Baptist)
“On the basis of the distinction between 'petros' . . . and 'petra' . . . , many have attempted to avoid identifying Peter as the rock on which Jesus builds his church. Peter is a mere 'stone,' it is alleged; but Jesus himself is the 'rock' . . . Others adopt some other distinction . . . Yet if it were not for Protestant reactions against extremes of Catholic interpretation, it is doubtful whether many would have taken 'rock' to be anything or anyone other than Peter . . . The Greek makes the distinction between 'petros' and 'petra' simply because it is trying to preserve the pun, and in Greek the feminine 'petra' could not very well serve as a masculine name . . . Had Matthew wanted to say no more than that Peter was a stone in contrast with Jesus the Rock, the more common word would have been 'lithos' ('stone' of almost any size). Then there would have been no pun - and that is just the point! . . . In this passage Jesus is the builder of the church and it would be a strange mixture of metaphors that also sees him within the same clauses as its foundation . . .”
(Expositor's Bible Commentary, [Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1984], vol. 8: Matthew, Mark, Luke (Matthew: D.A. Carson), 368)

 

[ScottA]

The tradition that the Roman Catholic Church is the true church established by Jesus Christ is based on the following scripture, which we will need to examine in order to come to the correct conclusion.

Mat 16:15-19 (GNB)"What about you?" he asked them. "Who do you say I am?" (16) Simon Peter answered, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God." (17) "Good for you, Simon son of John!" answered Jesus. "For this truth did not come to you from any human being, but it was given to you directly by my Father in heaven. (18) And so I tell you, Peter: you are a rock, and on this rock foundation I will build my church, and not even death will ever be able to overcome it. (19) I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven; what you prohibit on earth will be prohibited in heaven, and what you permit on earth will be permitted in heaven."

Jesus says, “on this rock foundation I will build my church”. So we have to ask ourselves what is the “rock foundation”.

Is it Peter?

Is it Peter’s confession that Jesus is the Messiah?

It makes a huge difference.

God gave Jesus 12 Apostles. We know that John was Jesus’ favorite. We also know that Jesus had three favorites: Peter, James and John. We find out later that the Apostle Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles. The Apostle Paul is the one who started the Roman congregations as well as many in Asia Minor. Not Peter.

We know there are 12 Apostles to the Lamb. In Revelation 12 the woman (who is the church, the Bride of Christ) has 12 stars (the 12 Apostles). The New Jerusalem had 12 foundations, the names of the 12 Apostles.

Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Twelve is a very important number with God. Israel was made up of 12s as well. Revelation was written sixty years after Jesus’ crucifixion and ascension and still there only the twelve apostles, no more no less. There is no transference of apostleship, no apostolic succession.

To single out one Apostle as the most important, in my estimation would take away from the singleness of our Lord Jesus Christ. He is the foundation of the Church.

So we have to go back to the questions. Is Peter the Foundation or is it Jesus as the Messiah?

We cannot build a doctrine around one scripture. We are told in God’s Law that it is by two or three witnesses is a thing established. So we must find other scriptures.

Heb 12:2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

1Co 3:11 For God has already placed Jesus Christ as the one and only foundation, and no other foundation can be laid.

Isa 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Act 4:10-12 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. (11) This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. (12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Eph 2:20-22 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; (21) In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: (22) In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Eph 4:10-12 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) (11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; (12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

1Co 12:27-29 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. (28) And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. (29) Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

When I think about the scriptures I just posted, one thing sticks out very strikingly—Jesus is the foundation—the rock which the church is built on and next is the 12 Apostles, not just one. So if that is the case with these scriptures, certainly Jesus’ words must harmonize with the rest of the Word.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The name Peter which Jesus gave to him, means rock. Strong's G4074 ΠεÌτρος Petros pet'-ros. Apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than G3037); as a name, Petrus, an apostle: - Peter, rock. Compare G2786.

So he says, “That thou art Petros (a piece of rock), and upon this Petra (mass of rock) I will build my church.

G4073 ΠεÌτρα petra pet'-ra. Feminine of the same as G4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively): - rock.

It is interesting that Jesus doesn’t use the same word that is translated Rock. He made a difference. I think that is an important difference. Jesus is the massive rock.

Rom_9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

1Co_10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

1Pe_2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

It is interesting also that in each one of these scriptures that talks about Jesus as a rock—the word is Petra—the massive rock.

So, we can see that this scripture is in harmony with all the others that Jesus is the foundation which the Church is built on and not Peter.

Since this is the only scripture that I know of that the Roman Catholic Church uses to say they are the one and only true Church because Peter was the first pope, and we see what that scripture is actually saying, then we have to come to the conclusion that all 12 Apostles are important and so No, the Roman Catholic Church is not the True Church established by Jesus.

When the word “Church” is used in the scripture it is not talking about an organization, it is talking about the entire congregation of spirit-begotten members. There is no priests/laity taught by Jesus. All are brethren, all have the same standing before God.

In Mat 16:15-19 Jesus actually gave two would-be options of what He would build upon -- literally, like Moses, He set before them "life and death."

The first option was "flesh and blood" which He clearly stated was "not" the one to build upon. The second option was "my Father in heaven" and the means by which Peter came to know that Jesus was the Christ. Thus, the only correct choice was the Rock of ages--God, by means of the Holy Spirit. All of which was no "option" at all, but a statement confirming which He would build His church upon, and which He would "not."

To the contrary, Popes are "flesh and blood."

 

[Eternally Grateful]

peter was not even the pope of Jerusalem, who was made an apostle to. He was one of three elders, (peter John and James) who ran the church of Jerusalem.

God always sent out in two’s even paul did not go out alone..

 

[marks]

one thing sticks out very strikingly—Jesus is the foundation—the rock which the church is built on and next is the 12 Apostles, not just one.

I agree.

Much love!

 

[Patrick1966]

When in doubt - go to your own Protestant scholaarship on the matter . . .

Why do that when we can simply look to what Peter said.

1 Peter 2:7-9 ESV
So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, “The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do. But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

 

[Illuminator]

The great thing about the Catholic Church is that they don't need the Bible. They can just make up whatever they want, even if it contradicts the Bible. Arguing with a Catholic is like arguing with a Mormon.

You have every opportunity to prove contradictions by finding out what Catholics really believe, by following the one step instructions in my signature. Once you've done that you can quote alleged contradictions from the articles, explain why its a contradiction arguing from scripture, and I will attempt a reasonable reply. That's called fruitful dialogue, stupid baseless insults is not. It's persecution, not discussion.
I will discuss any topic with you when you start treating Catholics like we were human beings.

 

[Patrick1966]

...stupid baseless insults is not.

It's not an insult it's the truth. The Catholic Church invented their own dogma and much of it isn't Biblical and some of it even contradicts the Bible what God told us.

The Catholic Church tells us to "serve" Mary when Jesus told us that we must only serve God.

I can share more but I know that your love, loyalty, and devotion are to the Catholic Church so why bother?

 

[Illuminator]

It's not an insult it's the truth. The Catholic Church invented their own dogma and much of it isn't Biblical and some of it even contradicts the Bible what God told us.

The Catholic Church tells us to "serve" Mary when Jesus told us that we must only serve God.

I can share more but I know that your love, loyalty, and devotion are to the Catholic Church so why bother?

You should bother, and not be afraid to find out how much you've been LIED TO. Try and stay on topic.
One click of the mouse isn't too much to ask, is it?

 

[Patrick1966]

You should bother, and not be afraid to find out how much you've been LIED TO.

So the Catholic Church doesn't call on us to serve Mary?

 

[Illuminator]

So the Catholic Church doesn't call on us to serve Mary?

No.
Peter is the topic, not Mary. If all you can do is jump around inserting 1-15 different topics in every post, then we are done here. I think you are afraid to find out how badly you have been lied to.
If you want to discuss Mary, open a new thread in the debate forum, with a link to one of the articles as per my signature. That way everyone can see your quotes in context, and I will be sure you are not making anything up, as you just demonstrated.

I think you are afraid to find out how badly you have been lied to, and an analysis of such fear is found in #981 here.
The reason I think you are afraid of the truth is the fact that you ignored my answer, and asked the same question. I didn't mean to scare you or make you look stupid. If you are going to criticize something, have the integrity to at least get the minimum of facts from a reliable source and have a bare minimum to get on the right track.

So let's have an adult, civilized discussion on the topic at hand, minus the school yard taunts and hillbilly theology.
Peter was a father to God's people when Saul of Tarsus was persecuting Christians. Acts 9:4
Paul was a father to God's people 1 Cor. 4:15 – “I became your father in Christ Jesus.”

“I do not, as Peter and Paul, issue commandments unto you.”
Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Romans, 4 (c. A.D. 110). (John was alive at this time frame)

Peter and Paul were not competitors. They were both killed by pagan Romans. So were the following 37+ Peter's successors. You may not think there were any popes but the pagan Romans sure knew who they were. I can name them all, but you can't name ONE believer from the early church who believes as you do. You've got 3 centuries to mine from. You won't find any.

Why has no one replied to the detailed bibliography of respected Protestant sources in post #3?
This is a forum. You can run but you can't hide.

 

[Patrick1966]

No.

You are mistaken my friend. The Catholic Church teaches that Mary calls on us to serve her.

Rosary: 1. Whoever shall faithfully Rosary: 1. Whoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall receive signal graces.

Luke 4:8 And Jesus answered him, “It is written, you shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve."

 

[Philip James]

The tradition that the Roman Catholic Church is the true church established by Jesus Christ is based on the following scripture, which we will need to examine in order to come to the correct conclusion.

Hello RR,

You are incorrect. The 'tradition' is not based on any scripture but on the authority of Christ handed on through the apostles. The Church was active and growing before one letter of the NT was penned.

Try again.

Pax et Bonum

 

[Patrick1966]

Hello RR,

You are incorrect. The 'tradition' is not based on any scripture but on the authority of Christ handed on through the apostles. The Church was active and growing before one letter of the NT was penned.

Try again.

Pax et Bonum

At some point the church turned apostate and began teaching all sorts of false doctrines.

 

[David in NJ]

The tradition that the Roman Catholic Church is the true church established by Jesus Christ is based on the following scripture, which we will need to examine in order to come to the correct conclusion.

Mat 16:15-19 (GNB)"What about you?" he asked them. "Who do you say I am?" (16) Simon Peter answered, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God." (17) "Good for you, Simon son of John!" answered Jesus. "For this truth did not come to you from any human being, but it was given to you directly by my Father in heaven. (18) And so I tell you, Peter: you are a rock, and on this rock foundation I will build my church, and not even death will ever be able to overcome it. (19) I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven; what you prohibit on earth will be prohibited in heaven, and what you permit on earth will be permitted in heaven."

Jesus says, “on this rock foundation I will build my church”. So we have to ask ourselves what is the “rock foundation”.

Is it Peter?

Is it Peter’s confession that Jesus is the Messiah?

It makes a huge difference.

God gave Jesus 12 Apostles. We know that John was Jesus’ favorite. We also know that Jesus had three favorites: Peter, James and John. We find out later that the Apostle Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles. The Apostle Paul is the one who started the Roman congregations as well as many in Asia Minor. Not Peter.

We know there are 12 Apostles to the Lamb. In Revelation 12 the woman (who is the church, the Bride of Christ) has 12 stars (the 12 Apostles). The New Jerusalem had 12 foundations, the names of the 12 Apostles.

Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Twelve is a very important number with God. Israel was made up of 12s as well. Revelation was written sixty years after Jesus’ crucifixion and ascension and still there only the twelve apostles, no more no less. There is no transference of apostleship, no apostolic succession.

To single out one Apostle as the most important, in my estimation would take away from the singleness of our Lord Jesus Christ. He is the foundation of the Church.

So we have to go back to the questions. Is Peter the Foundation or is it Jesus as the Messiah?

We cannot build a doctrine around one scripture. We are told in God’s Law that it is by two or three witnesses is a thing established. So we must find other scriptures.

Heb 12:2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

1Co 3:11 For God has already placed Jesus Christ as the one and only foundation, and no other foundation can be laid.

Isa 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Act 4:10-12 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. (11) This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. (12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Eph 2:20-22 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; (21) In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: (22) In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Eph 4:10-12 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) (11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; (12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

1Co 12:27-29 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. (28) And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. (29) Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

When I think about the scriptures I just posted, one thing sticks out very strikingly—Jesus is the foundation—the rock which the church is built on and next is the 12 Apostles, not just one. So if that is the case with these scriptures, certainly Jesus’ words must harmonize with the rest of the Word.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The name Peter which Jesus gave to him, means rock. Strong's G4074 ΠεÌτρος Petros pet'-ros. Apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than G3037); as a name, Petrus, an apostle: - Peter, rock. Compare G2786.

So he says, “That thou art Petros (a piece of rock), and upon this Petra (mass of rock) I will build my church.

G4073 ΠεÌτρα petra pet'-ra. Feminine of the same as G4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively): - rock.

It is interesting that Jesus doesn’t use the same word that is translated Rock. He made a difference. I think that is an important difference. Jesus is the massive rock.

Rom_9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

1Co_10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

1Pe_2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

It is interesting also that in each one of these scriptures that talks about Jesus as a rock—the word is Petra—the massive rock.

So, we can see that this scripture is in harmony with all the others that Jesus is the foundation which the Church is built on and not Peter.

Since this is the only scripture that I know of that the Roman Catholic Church uses to say they are the one and only true Church because Peter was the first pope, and we see what that scripture is actually saying, then we have to come to the conclusion that all 12 Apostles are important and so No, the Roman Catholic Church is not the True Church established by Jesus.

When the word “Church” is used in the scripture it is not talking about an organization, it is talking about the entire congregation of spirit-begotten members. There is no priests/laity taught by Jesus. All are brethren, all have the same standing before God.

Yes, Peter opened the first Pizzeria called Poppe's Pizza

Paul opened up the famous Paul's Diner serving both Kosher and non-kosher foods.

John went rogue and opened up the first all inclusive gymnastics/workout/training facility called 'Overcomers'.

The Laeodecian church did their own thing and opened a resort near the island of Pompei and it "Island of No Need".

 

[BreadOfLife]

Why do that when we can simply look to what Peter said.

1 Peter 2:7-9 ESV
So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, “The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do. But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

Absolutely - but we're not discissoing 1 Pet. 2. Jesus is the Rock in that passage.
Peter is the Rock in Matt. 16:18.

In Rev. 21, we see the Church - the New Jerusalem coming down from Heaven. It is buit on 12 Foundations - each with the name of an Apostle.

It stands to reason that Peter is the first foundation because -

a. Jesus singled out Peter when He gave him the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19).

b. Jesus asked Peter and Peter alone to feed His lambs and tend His sheep (John 21:15-19).

c. Jesus said that He prayed for Peter ALONE to strengthen the others and bring them back to faith (Luke 22:31-32).

d. Peter is specified by an angel as the leader and representative of the Apostles (Mark 16:7).

e. Peter called "Protos" (First) in the Gospel (Matt. 10:2) and his name occurs first in all lists of apostles (Matt. 10:2; Mk 3:16; Luke 6:14; Acts 1:13) – even though he was NOT the first Apostle chosen.

 

[David in NJ]

Absolutely - but we're not discissoing 1 Pet. 2. Jesus is the Rock in that passage.
Peter is the Rock in Matt. 16:18.

In Rev. 21, we see the Church - the New Jerusalem coming down from Heaven. It is buit on 12 Foundations - each with the name of an Apostle.

It stands to reason that Peter is the first foundation because -

a. Jesus singled out Peter when He gave him the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19).

b. Jesus asked Peter and Peter alone to feed His lambs and tend His sheep (John 21:15-19).

c. Jesus said that He prayed for Peter ALONE to strengthen the others and bring them back to faith (Luke 22:31-32).

d. Peter is specified by an angel as the leader and representative of the Apostles (Mark 16:7).

e. Peter called "Protos" (First) in the Gospel (Matt. 10:2) and his name occurs first in all lists of apostles (Matt. 10:2; Mk 3:16; Luke 6:14; Acts 1:13) – even though he was NOT the first Apostle chosen.

Peter is the 'Rock" is a 'crock' that came from men of the earth who were VOID of the Holy Spirit of Truth.

 

[Patrick1966]

Absolutely - but we're not discissoing 1 Pet. 2. Jesus is the Rock in that passage.
Peter is the Rock in Matt. 16:18.

Jesus referred to Peter as a rock as well as to himself as the rock, or foundation, or cornerstone, a symbolic truth reserved for God alone.

Anyway, no, Peter was never a Catholic.

Next someone is going to claim that Moses was a Catholic.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Peter is the 'Rock" is a 'crock' that came from men of the earth who were VOID of the Holy Spirit of Truth.

That is what we inthe apologetics world call a "denial without substance".
Calling my positiona "crock" with nothing to back it up is sheer impotence.

I gave you a list of Protestant scholarship on the matter - and they ALL agree with ME.
Can you offer ANY evidence to the contrary?