Was wine non-alcoholic in Jesus's time?

[Dropship]

There was quite a heated debate in a religious forum a while ago started by people who insisted that the wine of Jesus's time was non-alcoholic.
They insisted that when he turned water into wine and also drank wine at the last supper it must have been non-alcoholic.
What do CB members think?

 

[CadyandZoe]

There was quite a heated debate in a religious forum a while ago started by people who insisted that the wine of Jesus's time was non-alcoholic.
They insisted that when he turned water into wine and also drank wine at the last supper it must have been non-alcoholic.
What do CB members think?

It wouldn't be called "wine" if it was non-alcoholic.

 

[Space_Karen]

Wine was definitely alcoholic as indicated by Lott and his daughters.

However, consuming alcohol in moderation was culturally mandated.

Moderation was practiced by fasting and not consuming alcohol in excess.

Both of which are the opposite of culturally normalized today.

 

[ScottA]

Drink some wine, go buy a sword--Jesus was wrong, right?

Today everyone gets a trophy, there's no right from wrong, no male/female, and we have gun control too, because some people don't know or believe what Jesus said about where evil actually resides: It is not what one is outwardly, but inwardly, that is evil.

Alcoholic is not the problem. But hey, rewriting history is okay too, right?

 

[dev553344]

Wine was alcohol based. The fermentation of the grapes demands it. If it weren't so it would become moldy grape juice in time. But if it's wine then it lasts for a long time. It was a process to ensure it would last long after harvest season.

 

[dev553344]

Well there is fresh grape juice that is good for you. And people in Jesus time had to drink wine, like Noah got drunk off his vineyard. But I think it dehydrates a person and Jesus talked a lot about quenching thirst. Why is that in the middle east hot sun? Wine is probably not the best drink for them there. And I think that's a no brainer.

My question, how much alcohol content did the wine have in Jesus' time? What percent alcohol? They get up to 40 proof or 20%. I would think if you're about to be stoned to death, I would go for the 40 proof.

 

[MatthewG]

Surely there was fruits from time to time, unless famines hit the land.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Well there is fresh grape juice that is good for you.

Amen! The Bible calls that "New wine." But, just let is sit for SEVEN days, and what do you get?:
The Fermented stuff, for Which The Bible Says:

"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."
(Proverbs 20:1) Amen?

 

[Wrangler]

Today everyone gets a trophy, there's no right from wrong

Sometimes I question how you could be a Christian.

 

[Adam]

Jesus' enemies accused him of being a drunk

34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

And - if anyone has ever dealt with grapes before, they'll know you need to preserve them or they go bad. The easiest way to preserve grapes is to just mash them all up and put the juice in a barrel. Voila, you have wine. The idea that they hadn't invented alcohol in Jesus' day is just absurd. I would love to know what secret they used to stop the grape juice from fermenting without causing it to rot, because fermentation is a natural process.

 

[dev553344]

Amen! The Bible calls that "New wine." But, just let is sit for SEVEN days, and what do you get?:
The Fermented stuff, for Which The Bible Says:

"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."
(Proverbs 20:1) Amen?

Interesting as the same proverbs points out:

Proverbs 31:6 Give strong drink to him who is perishing, And wine to those who are bitter of heart. 7 Let him drink and forget his poverty,
And remember his misery no more.

I think that your reference is for not being a drunkard, which is taking alcohol too far. I would go as far as to say that people that support prohibition are evil.

 

[Adventageous]

There was quite a heated debate in a religious forum a while ago started by people who insisted that the wine of Jesus's time was non-alcoholic.
They insisted that when he turned water into wine and also drank wine at the last supper it must have been non-alcoholic.
What do CB members think?

Was wine non-alcoholic in Jesus's time?​

Answer in complete detail here -

Drink “UP” – These Are Not Drunken, As Ye Suppose Powerpoint : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Drink “UP” – These Are Not Drunken, As Ye Suppose PowerpointYOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCplWZcKcFd1tNbHYPS-5t9wINTERNET ARCHIVE: ...

archive.org

 

[Adventageous]

It wouldn't be called "wine" if it was non-alcoholic.

That's not actually true, as defined by scripture, historical use, and modern use. See my previous link which details the matter in a total powerpoint - Drink “UP” – These Are Not Drunken, As Ye Suppose Powerpoint : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

 

[CadyandZoe]

Well there is fresh grape juice that is good for you. And people in Jesus time had to drink wine, like Noah got drunk off his vineyard. But I think it dehydrates a person and Jesus talked a lot about quenching thirst. Why is that in the middle east hot sun? Wine is probably not the best drink for them there. And I think that's a no brainer.

My question, how much alcohol content did the wine have in Jesus' time? What percent alcohol? They get up to 40 proof or 20%. I would think if you're about to be stoned to death, I would go for the 40 proof.

As I understand it, the alcohol content of the wine varied, because it was used for different purposes. The wine with less alcohol was called "sweet wine." Even so, according to Acts 2:13, it was still possible to get drunk on sweet wine.

 

[CadyandZoe]

That's not actually true, as defined by scripture, historical use, and modern use. See my previous link which details the matter in a total powerpoint - Drink “UP” – These Are Not Drunken, As Ye Suppose Powerpoint : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

I'm sorry, I went to the link but I was a bit confused how to access the information you provided.

 

[Lambano]

The Last Supper was a Passover meal. My Jewish friends tell me they traditionally use alcoholic wine during the Seder. I fact-checked that against some Jewish sites. Here's one:

Note: Only children and people who will get sick if they drink alcohol are permitted to drink grape juice at seder. You may dilute the seder wine to a minimum of 4% alcohol.

So, our Jewish cousins use alcohol in the Seder now, and traditions being what they are, I strongly suspect Jesus and the Disciples used fermented (alcoholic) wine back then too.

 

[Stan B]

There was quite a heated debate in a religious forum a while ago started by people who insisted that the wine of Jesus's time was non-alcoholic.
They insisted that when he turned water into wine and also drank wine at the last supper it must have been non-alcoholic.
What do CB members think?

I am a wine maker. Grape juice would only be available in the autumn at harvest time. Without refrigeration systems, it would start to ferment within a couple months. The would be no grape juice at Passover time; and as for serving grape juice at a wedding celebration which often lasted for a week with most of the village present. At the Wedding at Cana, Jesus made about 120 gallons of wine. People who say that Jews served grape juice at a wedding are not familiar with Jewish culture; nor God’s culture.

BTW, fine wine is on the menu for The Marriage Supper of the Lamb.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Drink some wine, go buy a sword--Jesus was wrong, right?

Just so I’m not considered against wine. I’ll drink a glass. My question is how do we know in Jesus saying go drink wine that He wasn’t referring to “come all you who thirst, and drink.” What is “wine”?

Same as “drunkard” or “drunk” …as “be not drunk but sober”: is this “be awake” to be literally afraid to sleep in your bed because you might dose off and miss watching …but to be “awake” in “You that sleep, wake up to righteousness” drink could mean full of pride, high on yourself, in the high seat, drunk on power.

A member once mentioned being criticized for using their left hand to write. Whether we use Jesus words against a thing or to support a thing … “Jesus was for wine.” Or “Jesus was against wine.” “Jesus was for guns.” Or “Jesus was against guns.” Because of “go purchase a sword.” ?

 

[Lambano]

Ah, speaking of the wedding at Cana....

When the headwaiter tasted the water which had become wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter calls the bridegroom, and says to him, “Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have become drunk, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.” (John 2:10-11)

I think we know what was served at the wedding feast.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Just so I’m not considered against wine. I’ll drink a glass. My question is how do we know in Jesus saying go drink wine that He wasn’t referring to “come all you who thirst, and drink.” What is “wine”?

Same as “drunkard” or “drunk” …as “be not drunk but sober”: is this “be awake” not literally afraid to sleep in your bed because you might dose off and miss watching …but to be “awake” in “You that sleep, wake up to righteousness” drink could mean full of pride, high on yourself, in the high seat, drunk on power.

A member once mentioned being criticized for using their left hand to write. Whether we use Jesus words against a thing or to support a thing … “Jesus was for wine.” Or “Jesus was against wine.” “Jesus was for guns.” Or “Jesus was against guns.” Because of “go purchase a sword.” ?

What of
Matthew 26:27-29 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink you all of it; [28] For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. [29] But I say unto you, I will not drink hereforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Wine? Could be an argument to support that we will all drink wine with Him in the Kingdom.