Water Baptism

[H. Richard]

And not your writings of a man...are they not? Or are you a God?

Why should I believe what you say and not believe them???

The Church decided what is in your bible (table of contents) and that Church is of man. Did those men get the contents of the Bible wrong?

You didn’t have enough time to read the link i sent you so I am guessing you still don’t know your Christian history.

Curious Mary

***

So in your opinion God (the Holy Spirit) didn't have anything to do with what went in the Bible. For your information it is God that has given us the Bible, not men. You really ought to read what the Bible says about putting your trust in man. There is a reason that writings from the RCC are not in the Bible. Other than the O.T. all the writers in the N.T. personal knew Jesus and that includes Paul who met Jesus on the road to Damascus. None of your RCC writer ever met Jesus.

Come on Mary. Of course I know about the RCC history. The history books are full of it and it isn't what you want me to know.

As far as your RCC LINKS are concerned why should I believe them you don't believe what I wrote and it is based on the Bible scriptures given in the study.. But I see that you want to drive your opinions about this down my throat. You would have made a great Pharisee in the time of Jesus.

If Jesus Himself, said what I wrote you would not believe Him any more than the Jews believed Him. Why, because you are blinded by the traditions of men (The RCC). See if you can write a study about water baptism. I bet it would have mostly RCC Priests writings.

 

[Marymog]

Jesus, you should read my posts. i doubt there is anyone here who could say anything else.

And the men of the Catholic Church don’t promote Jesus?

Your doubt is wrong......I could say you are promoting YOURSELF. You promote your interpretation of scripture.

The men of the Catholic Church (the magisterium) promotes their interpretation of scripture.

What makes you different than them?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

***

So in your opinion God (the Holy Spirit) didn't have anything to do with what went in the Bible. For your information it is God that has given us the Bible, not men. You really ought to read what the Bible says about putting your trust in man. There is a reason that writings from the RCC are not in the Bible. Other than the O.T. all the writers in the N.T. personal knew Jesus and that includes Paul who met Jesus on the road to Damascus. None of your RCC writer ever met Jesus.

Come on Mary. Of course I know about the RCC history. The history books are full of it and it isn't what you want me to know.

As far as your RCC LINKS are concerned why should I believe them you don't believe what I wrote and it is based on the Bible scriptures given in the study.. But I see that you want to drive your opinions about this down my throat. You would have made a great Pharisee in the time of Jesus.

If Jesus Himself, said what I wrote you would not believe Him any more than the Jews believed Him. Why, because you are blinded by the traditions of men (The RCC). See if you can write a study about water baptism. I bet it would have mostly RCC Priests writings.

It is not my opinion that the Holy Spirit didn’t have anything to do with what went into the Bible. Men, guided by the Holy Spirit, decided what would make up our bible.

I never said that the people i quote were RCC writers that met Jesus. I asked you what writers you rely on. YOU NEVER ANSWERED. I would love to compare my writers to yours. Please, give me names, so we can compare notes.

The link I provided you is not a RCC link. If you accessed it you would know that. It is a link to historical Christian writings with commentary by Protestants.

Are you not blinded by the traditions of the men you follow? At least I am willing to list the men who’s interpretation of scripture I agree with. You are to scared, or can’t, list the men you quote.

I will give you a “study” on water baptism. None of it will include RCC priest writings.

Love Mary

 

[Marymog]

***

See if you can write a study about water baptism. I bet it would have mostly RCC Priests writings.

In Genesis God used water to destroy or wash away the wicked people and saved Noah and his family: Salvation thru water and a prefiguration of water baptism (1 Peter 3:20-21)


In Genesis and Exodus circumcision is given on the 8th day as a sign of a covenant with God and His people. That Old Covenant is then changed to a New Covenant in the NT by water baptism (Colossians 2:11-12).


In Exodus water is used to save the Israelites and destroy those that were trying to enslave. This was equated as baptism in the NT (1 Corinthians 10:2).


Ezekiel 36:22-27 talks of sprinkling water upon us and being cleansed by that water. Zechariah talks of a fountain that will be opened for the house of David so that we may be cleansed.

John the Baptist said he baptizes with water but the one that comes after him will baptize with the Holy Spirit. It goes from symbolic to a sacrament after Jesus is baptized with water. The Holy Spirit descends (comes upon him from above) upon Jesus as he is baptized. Jesus later tells Nicodemus one must be born of water and spirit and if you aren’t you CAN NOT enter the kingdom of God. This is not an either or option and this mirrors Mark 16:16 which says The one who believes and is baptized will be saved; but the one who does not believe will be condemned. Peter later says repent AND be baptized. Notice, once again, it is not a do one or the other option.

There is more in the NT about water baptism, however, that covers several hundred years from the OT to the NT. Let us delve into historical Christian writings.

The Didache was written before some NT letters: It tells the NT Christians HOW to baptize using water and that one cannot participate in the Eucharist UNTIL they are baptized. CLEARELY the disciples who walked and talked with the Apostles believed baptism DID something; it was not just a symbol.

Epistle of Barnabas, which was written 70-100 AD, talks about water baptism being used as a remission of sin which mirrors what scripture says (Acts 22:16, 1 Peter 3:21).

Ignatius of Antioch around the year 100 AD said not to conduct baptisms without the bishop being present. He also said where the bishop is there Jesus is also. If it is just a symbol, why does the bishop need to be present?

Eusebious in a story about the Apostle John talks about Baptism being the seal of grace. The Sheppard of Hermas written in the early 1st Century talks of water baptism being used as a remission of sin.

I could go on and on and on for the next 200 years, however, you get my point. Baptism, from the beginning of Christianity, was NOT symbolic.

Now dear sir, would you please reveal the earliest writings from the men you trust about baptism being symbolic?

NOTICE....Not one priest was quoted;)

Historical Mary

 

[bbyrd009]

See if you can write a study about water baptism.

the baptism of fire, who can find it?
no ritual for that one, huh

 

[Triumph1300]

the baptism of fire, who can find it?

For some reason I think she does not know about it.

 

[bbyrd009]

For some reason I think she does not know about it.

not sure i do either, tbh :)

 

[Helen]

Paul, by the Holy Spirit, probably started close to 20 churches, with many more born out of those by his apprentice leaders.

In Asia alone the NT mentions Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, Laodicea, Colossae, and Hieropolis. Ephesus was really a city full of churches meeting in homes and from that work all the others were started.

So while starting upwards of 20 churches in one’s life is impressive, what is far more impressive is how many daughters, grand-daughters and great-grand-daughters were birthed from those.

When Paul left earth in the end of his life he not only left some church plants, he left the DNA of a movement that would eventually spread to the extent that even the Roman Empire itself would surrender to Christianity (for better or worse).
History was changed in dramatic fashion through this one man’s obedience.

He established the first European Church in Lydia's house.

Amen...well said!
If we all know each other in the kingdom...( which I am not sure about) Paul is one person I hope I will have time to talk to...if talking is at all still a relevant Thing at that time!! Ha!

BTW.. @H. Richard Very good opening post. Thank you. Agree.

 

[Triumph1300]

Yes, I'll ask him about that snake at the campfire. :-)
We do a lot of camping.

 

[H. Richard]

It is not my opinion that the Holy Spirit didn’t have anything to do with what went into the Bible. Men, guided by the Holy Spirit, decided what would make up our bible.

I never said that the people i quote were RCC writers that met Jesus. I asked you what writers you rely on. YOU NEVER ANSWERED. I would love to compare my writers to yours. Please, give me names, so we can compare notes.

The link I provided you is not a RCC link. If you accessed it you would know that. It is a link to historical Christian writings with commentary by Protestants.

Are you not blinded by the traditions of the men you follow? At least I am willing to list the men who’s interpretation of scripture I agree with. You are to scared, or can’t, list the men you quote.

I will give you a “study” on water baptism. None of it will include RCC priest writings.

Love Mary

***

Foolish reply. I have not relied on any of man's interpretations of scripture other than my own and I truly believe that as a child of God I am taught by the Holy Spirit just as are all the children of God. Show me where I have quoted anyone other than the writers in the Bible. But you seem to rely on the writings of men outside of the Bible. I do not.

 

[H. Richard]

And the men of the Catholic Church don’t promote Jesus?

Your doubt is wrong......I could say you are promoting YOURSELF. You promote your interpretation of scripture.

The men of the Catholic Church (the magisterium) promotes their interpretation of scripture.

What makes you different than them?

Curious Mary

***
I am different because I trust in God's work on the cross where as you trust in the men who run your church and therefore promote their religion.

I am not a religious person. I bet that is hard for you to see. I believe in Jesus' work on the cross where He atoned (PAID) for all the sins of the world. Everyone has a pardon under the gospel of God's grace. But if a person does not believe God then they are refusing their pardon. Very simple and not what religion teaches. Refusing Jesus' work on the cross is the same as refusing Him.

Religion teaches that Jesus set up, just another religion of what men do to get God to save them. I my opinion that is a slap in the face of God when He, Himself, paid for their sins and has provided salvation to all who believe Him.

 

[Helen]

***
I am different because I trust in God's work on the cross where as you trust in the men who run your church and therefore promote their religion.

I am not a religious person. I bet that is hard for you to see. I believe in Jesus' work on the cross where He atoned (PAID) for all the sins of the world. Everyone has a pardon under the gospel of God's grace. But if a person does not believe God then they are refusing their pardon. Very simple and not what religion teaches. Refusing Jesus' work on the cross is the same as refusing Him.

Religion teaches that Jesus set up, just another religion of what men do to get God to save them. I my opinion that is a slap in the face of God when He, Himself, paid for their sins and has provided salvation to all who believe Him.

Another excellent post...well put and nice and clear. Amen.
You are 'on a roll' today. For me anyway... :)

 

[H. Richard]

In Genesis God used water to destroy or wash away the wicked people and saved Noah and his family: Salvation thru water and a prefiguration of water baptism (1 Peter 3:20-21)


In Genesis and Exodus circumcision is given on the 8th day as a sign of a covenant with God and His people. That Old Covenant is then changed to a New Covenant in the NT by water baptism (Colossians 2:11-12).


In Exodus water is used to save the Israelites and destroy those that were trying to enslave. This was equated as baptism in the NT (1 Corinthians 10:2).


Ezekiel 36:22-27 talks of sprinkling water upon us and being cleansed by that water. Zechariah talks of a fountain that will be opened for the house of David so that we may be cleansed.

John the Baptist said he baptizes with water but the one that comes after him will baptize with the Holy Spirit. It goes from symbolic to a sacrament after Jesus is baptized with water. The Holy Spirit descends (comes upon him from above) upon Jesus as he is baptized. Jesus later tells Nicodemus one must be born of water and spirit and if you aren’t you CAN NOT enter the kingdom of God. This is not an either or option and this mirrors Mark 16:16 which says The one who believes and is baptized will be saved; but the one who does not believe will be condemned. Peter later says repent AND be baptized. Notice, once again, it is not a do one or the other option.

There is more in the NT about water baptism, however, that covers several hundred years from the OT to the NT. Let us delve into historical Christian writings.

The Didache was written before some NT letters: It tells the NT Christians HOW to baptize using water and that one cannot participate in the Eucharist UNTIL they are baptized. CLEARELY the disciples who walked and talked with the Apostles believed baptism DID something; it was not just a symbol.

Epistle of Barnabas, which was written 70-100 AD, talks about water baptism being used as a remission of sin which mirrors what scripture says (Acts 22:16, 1 Peter 3:21).

Ignatius of Antioch around the year 100 AD said not to conduct baptisms without the bishop being present. He also said where the bishop is there Jesus is also. If it is just a symbol, why does the bishop need to be present?

Eusebious in a story about the Apostle John talks about Baptism being the seal of grace. The Sheppard of Hermas written in the early 1st Century talks of water baptism being used as a remission of sin.

I could go on and on and on for the next 200 years, however, you get my point. Baptism, from the beginning of Christianity, was NOT symbolic.

Now dear sir, would you please reveal the earliest writings from the men you trust about baptism being symbolic?

NOTICE....Not one priest was quoted;)

Historical Mary

***

What is obvious is that you have not used anything that Paul wrote. None of the historical writers you gave have anything in my Bible. Explain to me why I should believe anything they have written?

 

[mjrhealth]

And the men of the Catholic Church don’t promote Jesus?

Your doubt is wrong......I could say you are promoting YOURSELF. You promote your interpretation of scripture.

The men of the Catholic Church (the magisterium) promotes their interpretation of scripture.

What makes you different than them?

im not a catholic, i dont belong to teh catholic church, I belong to Jesus, as you should, and when you do, than you might get revelation from Him, and you eyes might be opened and you might see.

Have a blessed day.

 

[Marymog]

***

Foolish reply. I have not relied on any of man's interpretations of scripture other than my own and I truly believe that as a child of God I am taught by the Holy Spirit just as are all the children of God. Show me where I have quoted anyone other than the writers in the Bible. But you seem to rely on the writings of men outside of the Bible. I do not.

Foolish??? Really? You are infallible but everyone else is fallible???? Who is truly fooling themselves? You, who relies on yourself, or me who relies on the Apostolic and the Early Church Fathers? Men who walked and talked with the Apostles. Hmmmmm....tough decision here.

Your think your interpretation of scripture is more reliable than the Apostolic Fathers and the Early Church Fathers??? Fascinating....

I can quote the bible all day long also...Just like you. Any person that can read scripture just like the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8 and you. Please stop fooling yourself into thinking that you are special. Scripture warns against this: 2 Peter 3:16, 2 Timothy 4:3-4


Love...Mary

 

[Marymog]

***

What is obvious is that you have not used anything that Paul wrote. None of the historical writers you gave have anything in my Bible. Explain to me why I should believe anything they have written?

Are you of Paul or Appolos?

And since @bygrace and @Triumph1300 liked your post I ask them the same question...

Mary

 

[Marymog]

im not a catholic, i dont belong to teh catholic church, I belong to Jesus, as you should, and when you do, than you might get revelation from Him, and you eyes might be opened and you might see.

Have a blessed day.

Are you going to at least TRY and answer the question??? (I say no because you can't answer with logic)

Here is the question ONE MORE TIME: The men of the Catholic Church (the magisterium) promotes their interpretation of scripture, just like you do. What makes you different than them?

Mary

 

[mjrhealth]

Are you going to at least TRY and answer the question??? (I say no because you can't answer with logic)

Here is the question ONE MORE TIME: The men of the Catholic Church (the magisterium) promotes their interpretation of scripture, just like you do. What makes you different than them?

Mary

1. I'm not them
2. I dont belong to any religion, i like some wold rather belong to Christ.
3. I am no associated with any religious organization, and therefore am not bound but its rules, policies, doctrines, hierarchy, teachings, traditions etc etc as they are
4. I care not for what men think as they must see 3 above.
5. Joh_10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh_10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
they are not His sheep and dont follow Him. like you they are bound by "catholism: and see 3 above. Just as you are.
6. God gives all those who believe Him His spirit so,
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
but if you have not received teh Holy Spirit or you could care less for Gods best, than of course you like many will follow after men and there teaching, Itchy ears.
7. Revelation. Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
it is what Christ is building His church on, they have none because it is not His church neither are they subject to teh Rules of heaven or Christ but "catholism" that sad religion that hhas blinded so many.
Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Mat 11:26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

and they are too smart for God.

See Mary you too could have His best but you have chosen teh world. God luck with it.

 

[Marymog]

1. I'm not them
2. I dont belong to any religion, i like some wold rather belong to Christ.
3. I am no associated with any religious organization, and therefore am not bound but its rules, policies, doctrines, hierarchy, teachings, traditions etc etc as they are
4. I care not for what men think as they must see 3 above.
5. Joh_10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh_10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
they are not His sheep and dont follow Him. like you they are bound by "catholism: and see 3 above. Just as you are.
6. God gives all those who believe Him His spirit so,
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
but if you have not received teh Holy Spirit or you could care less for Gods best, than of course you like many will follow after men and there teaching, Itchy ears.
7. Revelation. Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
it is what Christ is building His church on, they have none because it is not His church neither are they subject to teh Rules of heaven or Christ but "catholism" that sad religion that hhas blinded so many.
Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Mat 11:26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

and they are too smart for God.

See Mary you too could have His best but you have chosen teh world. God luck with it.

Thank you for promoting your doctrine using scripture....JUST LIKE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DOES.

Are you sure your not Catholic????

 

[mjrhealth]

Thank you for promoting your doctrine using scripture....JUST LIKE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DOES.

Are you sure your not Catholic????

Well you see, Mary so many dont care for Christ nor the spirit of God, so it is not that I choose to use teh bible, its just that carnal christians demand it.

And why on earth would I want to be a ctac, I was for 17 years untill Jesus found me, sad isnt it all those years and I didnt know who Jesus was, nor God for that matter as you dont, Even sat through a latin mass once, why ill never know, complete and utter wast of our time, by teh time I was 7 i could do teh whole mass without a priest, even remember that time many years a go when they changed the our father, so Mary being in that religion, you know that bit about dogs and vomit.