We are dropping the pentagram.

[amigo de christo]

The "Spirit of God" is saying we all need to fall in line with Satanist and occult theology. Now there's a revelation.

Answer Post #75, APAK.

Yeah , that sounds just like the revelation according to anti christ , not Christ . Dangerous and deadly times are upon the church .
We must stand and defend the one true faith .

 

[amigo de christo]

Are you that blind..... You might want to consider shutting your engines off for a bit and examine yourself and see where you are going first ...

That man is dangerous and you cant see it . The blind lead the blind right into a ditch , those who have eyes warn .

 

[Hidden In Him]

Sometimes, I am shocked at how little self-professed Christians understand the Good News.

Are you that blind.....

Post #75, Gentlemen. Let me repost it.

Monism is the the premise of the occult, which I have been saying from the beginning is what Edward really teaches. I'll be back later with your responses.

The Worldview And Practices Of The Occult – Introduction
Ideas have consequences. —Francis Schaeffer
The basic philosophy and premise of the occult is described by a specific term: “monism.” Monism is defined as a “philosophical theory that everything consists of or is reducible to one substance.” [1] The Encyclopedia of Philosophy observes that monism “is a name for a group of views in metaphysics that stress the oneness or unity of reality in some sense.” [2]

There are different forms of monism. The occult may be described as a mystical form of monistic belief that characteristically accepts some form of pantheism. Pantheism teaches that everything is God. For example, as one magical text teaches, “God and the universe… have always existed: visible and invisible, both make up the divine being.” [3] The modern influence of monism can be seen in that several major world religions are monistic. Hinduism and Buddhism are examples of world religions that reflect monistic teaching. In monistic (advaita) Hinduism, the one ultimate reality is defined as “Nirguna Brahman.” In monistic Buddhism, the one ultimate reality is defined as an indescribable state of impersonal existence termed “Nirvana.”

Christianity, on the other hand, is not monistic. Christianity teaches that an infinite-personal Triune God, who is Spirit (John 4:24), created the physical world distinct from Himself. (For an excellent study, see Francis Schaeffer’s He Is There and He Is Not Silent.) This idea that God made the universe apart from Himself is known as “religious dualism,” and it stands in contrast with occultic monistic philosophy. Thus, Christianity does not teach that reality is only one thing, but rather that reality is composed of both an eternal spiritual reality (a personal God) and the created universe (itself involving a material and spiritual realm of existence).

Occult monism claims, in contrast to Christian teaching, that “God” and the “creation” are ultimately the same thing—they are one in essence. Christianity maintains that because God created the world apart from Himself, God and the creation are not the same thing. Thus, the basic Christian doctrine which rejects monistic teaching is the biblical doctrine of creation.

In essence then, the occult (which is monistic) and Christianity (which is not monistic) are based on entirely different and opposing beliefs. The underlying premise of each system powerfully conditions how their proponents view God, man’s relationship to God, the world, and man’s place in the world. So let us further compare and contrast Christianity and the occult to understand how fully in opposition these worldviews are.

In Christianity, God is personal. The material world is a real place created by God and distinct from Him. Man is a creation of God, made in His image, having as his ultimate purpose in life a loving, personal, and eternal relationship with His Creator.

But in the world of the occult, all of this is rejected. God is ultimately impersonal and/or personal only in a provisional sense. The material world is ultimately a secondary or illusory manifestation of God. Inwardly, all men are part of God, currently existing in ignorance of their divinity, and whose ultimate purpose is a merging of their true nature back into impersonal reality.

This is why the final goal of occult practice is to experience a condition of alleged spiritual “enlightenment” where a person supposedly understands the true nature of reality (“All is One”) and his proper place in the world (seeking a final “reuniting” with the One).

The alleged truth of occult monism is supposedly “confirmed” through occult practices such as altered states of consciousness, magic ritual, spirit possession, drug use, meditation, or other means whereby monistic consciousness (the feeling that “All is One”) is directly “experienced” and interpreted as “evidence” for the truth of one’s occult philosophy.

It is the monistic premise of occultism that makes its philosophy so fundamentally anti-Christian. Dr. Gary North observes in his excellent evaluation Unholy Spirits: Occultism and New Age Humanism:

Because God created the universe, there is a permanent, unbridgeable gap between the ultimate being of God and the derivative being of creatures. There is a Creator-creature distinction. Though men are made in the image of God (Genesis 1:27), they do not partake of God’s being. They are like God, but they are not of the same substance as God. There is no more fundamental doctrine than this one. Significantly, in every form of occultism this principle is denied, sometimes implicitly and usually explicitly. Satan’s old temptation to man hinges on his denial and man’s denial of the Creator-creature distinction…. In direct contrast to the biblical view of man and God, the occult systems, from the magical sects of the East to the gnostics of the early church period, and from there unto today’s preachers of the cosmic evolution and irresistible karma, one theme stands out— monism. There is no Creator-creature distinction. We are all gods in the making. Out of One has proceeded the many, and back into One are the many traveling… It is such a convenient doctrine, for it denies any eternal separation of God and His creation and therefore it denies any eternal separation of saved and lost. It denies any ultimate distinction between good and evil, past and present, structure and change…. [It] leads to rampant immorality, and… to a dismissal of earthly affairs and earthly responsibility. The result… is moral nihilism. [4]

Of course, if one can indeed be a god, then to be as God and exercise one’s divinity demands above all else the exercise of power—power over personal limitations, power over others (human and nonhuman), power over the creation, etc. Thus, personal “realization” of one’s godhood finds “confirmation” through the development of supernatural mastery over one’s environment. In other words, occult practice develops occult abilities which “confirm” personal divinity outwardly in the acts of supernatural power:

The power that is used in magic is derived from the forces we have been describing and so comes from both within and outside ourselves. It is formed by linking one aspect of the magician’s personality with the corresponding aspect of the cosmic mind. This at once sets up a current of power which the magician can draw upon for his own purposes. [5]

The above brief discussion of the differences between Christian and occult philosophy reveals why occultism in all its forms is so fundamentally hostile to Christian faith.

For the full article, read here:
Worldview and Practices of the Occult - Introduction - JA Show Articles

 

[APAK]

Yeah , that sounds just like the revelation according to anti christ , not Christ . Dangerous and deadly times are upon the church .
We must stand and defend the one true faith .

Do you really know what you are saying amigo, I wonder? You are being very hyperbolic in your thinking that causes strife within the Body and you are not the only one here that is bent on twisting and mangling anything in your way that you do not understand. You are acting like part of a mob looking for blood.
Shame on you for what I see you being very immature and impulsive. Do you ordinarily act this way, every day?

 

[TLHKAJ]

There are many Scriptures that say we are to be in Christ, and many that say He is in us as believers ....but NONE support the idea that we are to become Christ. We are to be like Him but we never will be Him.

John 14:15-18
[15]If ye love me, keep my commandments.
[16]And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[17]Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
[18]I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 15:4-9
[4]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[5]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[6]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
[7]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
[8]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
[9]As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

Galatians 2:20
[20]I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Colossians 1:27
[27]To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Romans 8:9-10
[9]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[10]And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

1 John 3:1-2
[1]Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
[2]Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[DuckieLady]

Yeah , that sounds just like the revelation according to anti christ , not Christ . Dangerous and deadly times are upon the church .
We must stand and defend the one true faith .

I'm not ready to give up on him yet.

These delusions are strong and it is easy to say to ourselves "there's no hope for this one."

Jesus did not.

Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Matthew 19:26

And that verse is about those cases of no hope for salvation being given hope by God's power.

So lets not rely on our own words, but by faith and perseverance in prayer.

 

[lforrest]

We are in-Christ.

Galatians 3:26-28 gives us insight into the phrase “in Christ” and what it means. "In Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Paul is speaking to the Christians in Galatia, reminding them of their new identity since they placed their faith in Jesus Christ. To be "baptized into Christ" means that they were identified with Christ, having left their old sinful lives and fully embracing the new life in Christ (Mark 8:34; Luke 9:23). When we respond to the Holy Spirit’s drawing, He "baptizes" us into the family of God. First Corinthians 12:13 says, "For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink."

This gets me thinking about Christ as the atonement, to which the Spirit has lead me to add the word cover.

So it follows to put on Christ is to put on his blood as a covering. This is alluded to in the temple sacrifice and associated rites.

Also in Egypt when the death of the first born happened there was another allusion to Jesus' sacrifice, and the covering.

The meaning is clear, all who do not have the blood covering of Jesus Christ will die in their sins.

Does this doctrine affect the symbolic meaning of atonement?

 

[TLHKAJ]

Who has said this on this site?

Brother, I know what you're trying to say and you want to think this man is speaking truth. But I can't condone or go along with the spreading of a doctrine that says "we are Christ." We are not Him. We are in Him if we abide in His Word, and His Spirit is in us. But we will never BE Christ. And that's what Edward has been claiming. It's a subtle twisting and adding to the Word of God. We will not literally be Him ...Christ. We will be LIKE HIM. It's an elevation of self .....that same old lie that satan sold to Adam and Eve in the garden..... "You will be as gods." Edward has stated that he is God. That's NOT TRUTH.

 

[amigo de christo]

Do you really know what you are saying amigo, I wonder? You are being very hyperbolic in your thinking that causes strife within the Body and you are not the only one here that is bent on twisting and mangling anything in your way that you do not understand. You are acting like part of a mob looking for blood.
Shame on you for what I see you being very immature and impulsive. Do you ordinarily act this way, every day?

Bring proof through scripture .

 

[amigo de christo]

I'm not ready to give up on him yet.

These delusions are strong and it is easy to say to ourselves "there's no hope for this one."

Jesus did not.

Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Matthew 19:26

And that verse is about those cases of no hope for salvation being given hope by God's power.

So lets not rely on our own words, but by faith and perseverance in prayer.

He is dangerous and not listening .

 

[TEXBOW]

I have a wonderful Dad his name is Johnny (82 years young). He is responsible for bringing me into this world and has been a loving father. It's obvious I'm of Johnny but I'm not Johnny. I can never be Johnny. I could never provide life to myself. I really desire to be like my Dad and because of my close relationship I emulate him without sometimes even realizing it. I love my Dad and always wanted to grow up and be just like him.

Sometimes we are guilty of making some of the most pure and simple concepts complicated.

 

[DuckieLady]

He is dangerous and not listening .

I know, but this is love, and I wasn't listening either, but sometimes the right words will stick in the back of the mind and eventually come fully forward and bring the heart to repentance- even it takes years in that person, only God knows.

 

[Waiting on him]

YEAH i used to make the same claim too . In words they claim HIM but in heart are far from HIM . LET THAT ONE SINK IN REAL DEEP .
cause i used tobe the same nasty thing .

Your being a real drama princess,,,,, as usual

 

[Wrangler]

And since I have answered your trick question, how about if you answer one for me:

It wasn't a trick question, just a clarifying & revealing question.

Do you sympathize with Satanist theology? Because that's what Monism is fully compatible with. Respond to post #75, Wrangler.

No, I don't sympathize with Satanist theology? I just don't feel the need to deny all things I don't agree or sympathize with.

Monism is the the premise of the occult, Edward, and I have been telling you from the beginning that is what you really teach.

My response to post #75 is your lack of humility in telling someone what they really teach. It seems like our friend, @Edward Gordon, believes in pantheism or monism, the idea that everything is God. I don't share that belief but doubt anything I say here is going to convince Edward. I think Edward is lost and pray for him as I do for all of God's children - including you.

I find his duality on being a Christian disturbing. And this is his thread, not yours. My suggestion is to tone down your rhetoric (premise of the occult) if you wish to reach our friend @Edward Gordon. (I trust that is your motivation and not to seem tough on this thread). I tend not to study ideas, such as monism, that I reject out of hand. So, while you may want me to respond further, I can with an actual specific question from you but hope you respond by first thanking me for taking the time to respond to post #75 as you requested. Make a blessed day!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

We already did drop astral projection, but the bottom line is this: either you are Christ, or you perish. If you have a problem with that, take it up with Jesus. Cuz that's where I got it from. And we still practice astrology, and we still limit the canon to the Gospels, and we still canonize the Veridican Gospel of Jesus Christ, and we still practice our spiritual gifts, and we are still monists. If you don't like it, it's because you're too ignorant to see the truth. That's the bottom line.

Honestly, despite the fact that your theology is lacking, you should not be in the ministry. Your skin is not thick enough. You get horribly offended right off the bat.

 

[Edward Gordon]

Quick question. When we say “We are Christ”, what does that mean?
That we are God?

We are always God. Everything is God. There is nothing that isn't God. But if we are fully developed as Christ, then we are fully conscious of being God.

 

[Waiting on him]

We are always God. Everything is God. There is nothing that isn't God. But if we are fully developed as Christ, then we are fully conscious of being God.

Can’t agree with this statement.
John 14:30 KJV
[30] Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We are always God. Everything is God. There is nothing that isn't God. But if we are fully developed as Christ, then we are fully conscious of being God.

what makes someone God?

 

[APAK]

There are many Scriptures that say we are to be in Christ, and many that say He is in us as believers ....but NONE support the idea that we are to become Christ. We are to be like Him but we never will be Him.

John 14:15-18
[15]If ye love me, keep my commandments.
[16]And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[17]Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
[18]I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 15:4-9
[4]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[5]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[6]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
[7]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
[8]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
[9]As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

Galatians 2:20
[20]I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Colossians 1:27
[27]To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Romans 8:9-10
[9]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[10]And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

1 John 3:1-2
[1]Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
[2]Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

AJ, when you become immortal you will be as Christ and later the same, truly. When Christ returns the Kingdom back to the Father when the new heavens and earth occur, we will be in all, the Father will be in all of us in complete communique and as one whole. We will be the exact same as Christ. It sounds far out today and there are glimpses of this thought in scripture. We have to look not just at our condition and salvation, we must look beyond that point. Edward is presenting his case for it.

You are thinking in terms of this world only. Robert and I and others in fact are looking at the BIGGER picture, the long term effect of our beliefs and salvation and growing INTO Christ today as a plant.

You know EPI right, he spoke/speaks similarly as walking into Christ and staying there...etc...and he never got this amount of flack and crucifixion. I listened to Epi and I actually thought some of his beliefs were sound. I did not cause a riot over them and pulling others in...that is not called for....and calling him a fake or a non-believer. Epi presented it that ensured it stayed in the MS thought of Christianity, and yet it is not MS at all.

You know that @Hidden In Him always loves to make a memorable scene. And he flubbed it up again. He is currently making hay of something Robert never stated or believes in. He made it up again. He posted twice if you did not miss it the first time a definition of Monism according to him. All one-sided as usual to suit his own needs. He presented an outliner, one of a dozen or more definitions that just so happens to appeal to him because it reads OCCULTISM all over it.

Now what Robert said if I'm not mistaken is that his definition of Monism even though I do not agree with it entirely, is the Spinoza version. It has no ties to Occultism.

From a source I had that introduces Spinoza's view on monism.
Spinoza’s idea was that everything we know to exist is God or rather within God, and has appeared because there is no choice in the matter. There is no intent or purpose behind it, it’s just the nature of ‘God’ to be the universe. And so Nature, being God, just acts. He thought that what others call God is Nature acting because that is the inherent quality of Nature, with no personal aspect. The existence of the universe is not a manifestation of ‘God’s’ potency, but is the manifestation of ‘God’ and the two can’t be separated.

Because of the speculative nature of modern philosophy it’s hard to pin down all of what Spinoza believed without a serious study of his writings, which I haven’t done. I know he didn’t believe in free will, so he was compelled to write what he did and act as he did, but he also kept a loophole for man to improve himself by better understanding the nature of Nature (God to him). I believe he had some idea of ‘natural perfection’ and man should endeavor to achieve that through reason.


Now do these words mean Occultism? No

 

[Waiting on him]

John 6:46 KJV
[46] Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
You said you accepted the gospels only for doctrine

 

[Hidden In Him]

It seems like our friend, @Edward Gordon, believes in pantheism or monism, the idea that everything is God.

It doesn't "seem" like Edward believes in Monism. He very clearly stated he does in Post #40.

I think Edward is lost and pray for him as I do for all of God's children - including you.

And I think Edward Gordon has been blatantly promoting occultism from the moment he stepped foot on this forum, and have been saying so repeatedly, and his every response has only continued to confirm it. Meanwhile, you and a few others naively think we should simply be praying for poor Edward rather than opposing his doctrines. In fact, until pressed, your response was to come out in full favor of what he teaches while telling me I have no idea what the gospel is.

It makes me ask you the same question I asked APAK, and this question is specific: Where do your sympathies lie?