WE ARE NOT SAVED BY WORKS...WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

[Grailhunter]

I've taken communion. But it doesn't save and Jesus doesn't claim it does. It's a symbolic ritual to commemorate his death for us.

I nor anybody else I know thinks that Communion saves...We are straight on that...but what is like...if you are saved and you do not abide in Christ nor He in you and there is no life in you and He does not raise you on the last day...Saved soul with nowhere to go?

 

[FHII]

People say that we are not saved by works.
That there is nothing that we do on our own that can save us.
People say this all the time...but is it true...or does the statement mean something that is misunderstood. Lets put in motion.

People say it, but the Bible says it also. Yes, it is a misunderstood statement. I will get into that shortly.

Billy is not a Christian. He is sitting on his couch watching a football game. Happy go luck and he is not thinking about Christianity and the only thing he is doing is eating chips and drinking tea.

If you read the Bible, you will understand that Jesus doesn't expect you to follow the law. It sinply can't and never has been done. The law has been abolished. Works of the flesh are no longer required.

He now just requires your life.

 

[Grailhunter]

I've taken communion. But it doesn't save and Jesus doesn't claim it does. It's a symbolic ritual to commemorate his death for us.

And you would do scholars a favor if you could find in the scriptures gave any indication that Christ said this was symbolic. You are thinking that the Apostle and His disciples reacted like they did over something that was symbolic. This came close to tearing His ministry apart....Be careful in denying Christ Words...what higher authority are you going to turn to get it right...a Protestant preacher....

 

[Grailhunter]

If you read the Bible, you will understand that Jesus doesn't expect you to follow the law.

FHll,
If you read this thread you will find that there is nothing here about the Law.

 

[Grailhunter]

Thoughts and even actions such as praying are not what is meant by works biblically.

Scripture please

 

[FHII]

FHll,
If you read this thread you will find that there is nothing here about the Law.

Is there talks about works? If so, then its talking about the laws. Unless we must do a bunch of stuff man made up.

 

[Grailhunter]

Next we have Good Deeds...now the Greek word for works can be translated as works or Good Deeds.
A lot of times when Paul is talking about works, it is about the works of the 613 Mosaic Laws and that they have nothing to do with salvation.
But there is some discussion on the rewards of Good Deeds by Christ and the Apostles...rewards, not Salvation.
And James said this about doing good.
James 2:14-26
14 What use is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone says he has faith, but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17 In the same way, faith also, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. 18 But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20 But are you willing to acknowledge, you foolish person, that faith without works is useless? 21 Was our father Abraham not justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was Rahab the prostitute not justified by works also when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Now this is serious enough because, what good is a Christian that is not in the service Christ. "I am just sitting here waiting to go to heaven." Who should not use Christ as an exemplary model. But still even if you are a bump on a log Christian and do nothing....You are still saved because Good Deeds or what some prefer works, do not save you....

 

[Grailhunter]

Is there talks about works? If so, then its talking about the laws. Unless we must do a bunch of stuff man made up.[/QU
Read post 87.

Now just as matter of facts, work can be harvesting the vineyard...it can be doing Good Deeds...and it can be observing the 613 Mosaic Laws that have no positive affect on Salvation.

 

[Renniks]

And you would do scholars a favor if you could find in the scriptures gave any indication that Christ said this was symbolic. You are thinking that the Apostle and His disciples reacted like they did over something that was symbolic. This came close to tearing His ministry apart....Be careful in denying Christ Words...what higher authority are you going to turn to get it right...a Protestant preacher....

That's not all they were reacting to. The Jews didn't get that, but if you really read the passage they were reacting to him saying he came down from heaven.

 

[Renniks]

Scripture please

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

And of course we must abide In him. Of course we will do good. We aren't saved by works but to do good works...

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I haven't the slightest clue what your on about

He's in search of the Holy Grail.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Well, its a little after 5:30 where I am at, so let me move this along a little.
So is the statement "We are not saved by works" accurate...ambiguous...equivocal...or irrelevant?
Billy is going to decide that the Gospel is true and he believes in Christ.
Billy goes to a local church and goes down to the front of the church and kneels and talks with the minster and explains he wants to give his life to Christ and the preacher and him have a good talk about repentance and Billy understands the failures of his life and wants to be a good Christian.
Billy goes to church the following Sunday and gets baptized.
Billy then goes to a church dinner where they perform the ritual of communion.

Now I am saying that everything Billy did here was religious in nature...with a religious goal...an action on his part that qualifies as "works" in the most truest sense and it ended up with him being saved. Point number two, is if he had not done these "works" and remained on the couch and never gave Christianity a thought, he would not have been saved.

So his works lead to him being saved even though that power did not come from him. He was saved by Christ. But if he did no works he would not have been saved. So the statement that We are not saved "by" works is accurate but ambiguous. Because you cannot be saved without works. In this case he was actually performing religious rituals...with the goal of being saved.

So you can say that we are not saved by works...but you cannot be saved without works. This makes the point much more accurate.

Now we discuss this....

And the next topic is good deeds.

Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the Law because man could not. So stop with this works orientated salvation. We are saved by Grace through faith alone. You don't seem to want to accept scripture that plainly tells you that it is not by works. We demonstrate our love to God and one another but that does not save us. CHRIST'S BLOOD SAVES US.
IF YOU BELIEVE that Christ died for our sins and rose on the third day you will be saved. The man next to Jesus did not get baptized. Baptism does not save. Rituals don't save. Communion does not save. Christ saves.

 

[Grailhunter]

That's not all they were reacting to. The Jews didn't get that, but if you really read the passage they were reacting to him saying he came down from heaven.

No completely wrong.

 

[Grailhunter]

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

And of course we must abide In him. Of course we will do good. We aren't saved by works but to do good works...

What does this have to do with thoughts and prayers not part of works?

 

[Grailhunter]

Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the Law because man could not. So stop with this works orientated salvation. We are saved by Grace through faith alone. You don't seem to want to accept scripture that plainly tells you that it is not by works. We demonstrate our love to God and one another but that does not save us. CHRIST'S BLOOD SAVES US.
IF YOU BELIEVE that Christ died for our sins and rose on the third day you will be saved. The man next to Jesus did not get baptized. Baptism does not save. Rituals don't save. Communion does not save. Christ saves.

There is nothing about this thread that is about work oriented salvation.
It is about the fact that you have to do something to be saved.
Sit on your couch and do nothing until you die...you will die unsaved.

 

[Behold]

People say that we are not saved by works.

Salvation is God on The Cross as : John 3:16

If you can do that "work" then you can save yourself, and keep yourself saved.
If you can't, then you just understood Salvation.

Salvation is God saving you using The Cross and Death, and Resurrection of JESUS.
God caused all this as the means to SAVE YOU.

There is no other way, John 14:6 and as you can see, you dont do that work.
Look at your hands. Do you see nail prints?
Do you remember walking out of the Tomb 2000 yrs ago as THE SAVIOR?

That "work" is SALVATION, and its God's work, that has been completed 2000 yrs ago= and offered to you for FREE as "the GIFT of Salvation".

Do you have this work of God, this GIFT applied to you = The Blood Atonement?
If you do, then you are SAVED and will go to Heaven.
If not, you are this : John 3:36

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

There is nothing about this thread that is about work oriented salvation.
It is about the fact that you have to do something to be saved.
Sit on your couch and do nothing until you die...you will die unsaved.

You can sit on your couch and believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose on the third day according to the scriptures ... and then die and go to heaven.
A gift is given to you and all you have to do is receive it. A gift is not a gift if you have to work for it.

 

[Grailhunter]

Salvation is God on The Cross as : John 3:16

If you can do that "work" then you can save yourself, and keep yourself saved.
If you can't, then you just understood Salvation.

Salvation is God saving you using The Cross and Death, and Resurrection of JESUS.
God caused all this as the means to SAVE YOU.

There is no other way, John 14:6 and as you can see, you dont do that work.
Look at your hands. Do you see nail prints?
Do you remember walking out of the Tomb 2000 yrs ago as THE SAVIOR?

That "work" is SALVATION, and its God's work, that has been completed 2000 yrs ago= and offered to you for FREE as "the GIFT of Salvation".

Do you have this work of God, this GIFT applied to you = The Blood Atonement?
If you do, then you are SAVED and will go to Heaven.
If not, you are this : John 3:36

This is really not about works saving you. Only Christ can save you...I have made that point several times.
It is about what the Bible is calling works.
And the fact that Christ is not running around with a water balloon of salvation and throwing it at people.
People actually have to do something to be saved and that something can be classified as a religious action and thus falls into the category of what the Bible refers to as works.

Works do not save you...but you cannot be saved without works. Works being, you decide to believe... repent...be baptized and perform communion. Good Deeds are good but they are not what saves you.

 

[Grailhunter]

You can sit on your couch and believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose on the third day according to the scriptures ... and then die and go to heaven.
A gift is given to you and all you have to do is receive it. A gift is not a gift if you have to work for it.

I do not agree with that approach to salvation...but the decision to believe is a work. Christ does not force you to be saved, you have to decide.

Your belief regarding the process of salvation is your right. If you want to debate it, please start a thread.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I do not agree with that approach to salvation...but the decision to believe is a work.

No, a decision is a thought, not work. Work is an act, a demonstration of thoughts.
IF YOU think the thief nailed to the cross next to Christ was working that is wrong. Beliefs aren't work nor are they deeds. If you encouraged someone, prayed for them, informed them of something just verbally on the phone, sitting on the couch, that would be a demonstration of love and thoughts and therefore good deeds. The thoughts by themselves are not until you put them into action.
Belief holds a lot of weight. You must demonstrate your belief. At least confessing your sins, asking for forgiveness and talking to God validates your belief. Baptism and Communion demonstrates your belief and obedience. Fruit comes later.
Jesus is the life, the light of the world. You dont produce that life in any way. You dont turn on the light either. He lifts you blindnes so you can see. You can do nothing without Him. IT IS ALL ABOUT JESUS WORK ON THW CROSS, HIS POWER THAT TRANSFORMS YOU.
My Mom just got saved in her dying bed a few days ago, unable to move and Jesus revealed Himself to her - she died yesterday in peace. She did not work for that gift.