WE ARE NOT SAVED BY WORKS...WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

[mailmandan]

We are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

 

[Truman]

Works include walking out Luke 9:23

 

[Levind]

People say that we are not saved by works.
That there is nothing that we do on our own that can save us.
People say this all the time...but is it true...or does the statement mean something that is misunderstood. Lets put in motion.

Billy is not a Christian. He is sitting on his couch watching a football game. Happy go luck and he is not thinking about Christianity and the only thing he is doing is eating chips and drinking tea.

So the question is, how does Billy get saved without works?...He is not thinking anything in particular and not doing anything. So how does it happen?

I'm sure that is simply metaphorical words. I have another point of view for that phrase. The phrase intend to make us humble. How great we are we may get failed. And it doesn't mean we don't work at all.

Even if get work there is no guarantee we will get save, just imagine if we don't work at all.

 

[Pearl]

• Works are required for salvation—but Scripture is clear that those works are Christ’s, not ours. Jesus fulfilled the law (Matthew 5:17). In fact, “the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith” (Galatians 3:24). Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross reconciled us to God (Romans 5:10), and as He died, Jesus proclaimed that the work was finished (John 19:30). Now we are invited to enter into God’s rest by faith: “Anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works” (Hebrews 4:10).

• Our works do nothing to earn or maintain salvation. It was the once-for-all sacrifice of Christ that justifies sinners (Romans 3:24). “Know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, . . . because by the works of the law no one will be justified” (Galatians 2:16). We begin by faith, and we continue in faith: “Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?” (Galatians 3:2–3).

 

[Renniks]

There is nothing about this thread that is about work oriented salvation.
It is about the fact that you have to do something to be saved.
Sit on your couch and do nothing until you die...you will die unsaved.

Unless you are incapable of getting off the couch due to disabilities. At any rate, it's your faith that saves you, not whatever works your faith produces. Saying a decision is a work is absurd. The Bible makes a clear distinction between faith and works. Lots of people have been saved and never had the opportunity to do anything physically for God before going to meet him.

 

[Amazed@grace]

So you do not agree that this a do, a work, that He did something to move in the direction of Salvation.
If your answer is no, then the next question is
Could Billy be saved if he continued to sit on the couch and not give Christianity a thought and did not decided to believe.

I believe it tells us we can't simply do good and be saved. We must be born again. Repenting, leaving that shell and spirit of our worldly self and ways in the grave.
To resurrect from that death of old self in the new birth as a new spectacular creation blessed and redeemed by God.

"If you have pain he's the pain taker. If you have chains he's the chain breaker." Praise the Lord and his mercies.

 

[Amazed@grace]

So is this a work? An action by Billy that is required for salvation? So if it is not a work, what would you classify it as.

Keep in mind the question is it true that we are not saved by works.
This can be a matter of opinion so it is an open discussion among Christians.

Among Christians yes. However, I think what is priority is what does it say in God's own words?

Ephesians 2
Phillipians 2:13

 

[Grailhunter]

No, a decision is a thought, not work. Work is an act, a demonstration of thoughts.
IF YOU think the thief nailed to the cross next to Christ was working that is wrong. Beliefs aren't work nor are they deeds. If you encouraged someone, prayed for them, informed them of something just verbally on the phone, sitting on the couch, that would be a demonstration of love and thoughts and therefore good deeds. The thoughts by themselves are not until you put them into action.
Belief holds a lot of weight. You must demonstrate your belief. At least confessing your sins, asking for forgiveness and talking to God validates your belief. Baptism and Communion demonstrates your belief and obedience. Fruit comes later.
Jesus is the life, the light of the world. You dont produce that life in any way. You dont turn on the light either. He lifts you blindnes so you can see. You can do nothing without Him. IT IS ALL ABOUT JESUS WORK ON THW CROSS, HIS POWER THAT TRANSFORMS YOU.
My Mom just got saved in her dying bed a few days ago, unable to move and Jesus revealed Himself to her - she died yesterday in peace. She did not work for that gift.

Your defining a word from the Bruno Dictionary. Which I am sure it is a good Dictionary but has nothing to do with the Bible.
Works in relation to observing a religious process or rules is used in the Bible. Paul talks about the the Law and works of the Law.
The Law was the Mosaic Law, 613 Laws which did in fact rule thought and praise and pray. So a religious decision by definition on the subject that Paul was talking about is considered works.

If you want to put it in a modern dictionary context, how may people make a living by working with their minds.

Sorry about your mom.

Salvation is a gift. Thank for your testimony about Yeshua on the cross...no "J's" in that time period.

 

[Grailhunter]

Among Christians yes. However, I think what is priority is what does it say in God's own words?

Ephesians 2
Phillipians 2:13

Do you want to expand on that?

 

[Grailhunter]

I believe it tells us we can't simply do good and be saved. We must be born again. Repenting, leaving that shell and spirit of our worldly self and ways in the grave.
To resurrect from that death of old self in the new birth as a new spectacular creation blessed and redeemed by God.

"If you have pain he's the pain taker. If you have chains he's the chain breaker." Praise the Lord and his mercies.

See you in heaven.

 

[Amazed@grace]

See you in heaven.

Yes. We'll have tea and talk awhile.

 

[Nancy]

No, a decision is a thought, not work. Work is an act, a demonstration of thoughts.
IF YOU think the thief nailed to the cross next to Christ was working that is wrong. Beliefs aren't work nor are they deeds. If you encouraged someone, prayed for them, informed them of something just verbally on the phone, sitting on the couch, that would be a demonstration of love and thoughts and therefore good deeds. The thoughts by themselves are not until you put them into action.
Belief holds a lot of weight. You must demonstrate your belief. At least confessing your sins, asking for forgiveness and talking to God validates your belief. Baptism and Communion demonstrates your belief and obedience. Fruit comes later.
Jesus is the life, the light of the world. You dont produce that life in any way. You dont turn on the light either. He lifts you blindnes so you can see. You can do nothing without Him. IT IS ALL ABOUT JESUS WORK ON THW CROSS, HIS POWER THAT TRANSFORMS YOU.
My Mom just got saved in her dying bed a few days ago, unable to move and Jesus revealed Himself to her - she died yesterday in peace. She did not work for that gift.

I am sorry to hear about your mom brother yet, joyful that she responded to Christ before her last breath, may God comfort you and yours.

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes. We'll have tea and talk awhile.

Should be interesting.

 

[Curtis]

People say that we are not saved by works.
That there is nothing that we do on our own that can save us.
People say this all the time...but is it true...or does the statement mean something that is misunderstood. Lets put in motion.

Billy is not a Christian. He is sitting on his couch watching a football game. Happy go luck and he is not thinking about Christianity and the only thing he is doing is eating chips and drinking tea.

So the question is, how does Billy get saved without works?...He is not thinking anything in particular and not doing anything. So how does it happen?

He turns on the TV, comes across someone preaching salvation, and since faith comes from hearing the word of God, Romans 10:17, he now has enough faith to make the choice to either receive Jesus and become a child of God, John 1:12, or reject Jesus, as His own, that He came for, did in John 1:11.

And he has the choice to repent of his sins so they are forgiven, Acts 3:19, or not repent, as that tv preachers sermon informed him that he needs to do.

As to works, Most people have zero clue about works, or what the term means to Paul.

When Paul said we are saved by grace, via faith, not by works, he was specifically talking about works of the law of Moses.

Anytime in his epistles Paul mentions the law, it’s always about the body of law with its 613 regulations, called the law of Moses.

We’re not saved by works of the law of Moses, therefore we don’t have to eat kosher foods, sacrifice animals, or any of the other 611 rules that are in it.

People ignorantly think anything a believer must do is a work, then cite Ephesians 2:8-9 and claim there’s nothing at all a believer is required to do.

James on the other hand, talks about works, but not works of the law of Moses.

That there are two different kinds of works explains the apparent contradiction between Paul writing that Abraham was justified apart from works, and James writing that Abraham WAS justified by works, as are ALL MEN.

In fact works were part of Abraham’s justification and perfected his faith.


Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?


Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father JUSTIFIED BY WORKS, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?


Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by WORKS WAS FAITH MADE PERFECT?


Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.


Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by WORKS a man is JUSTIFIED and NOT by faith ONLY.


Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?


Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


Above, it states that though Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him as righteousness, his works of obedience in sacrificing his son Isaac (as a test, before God stopped him), was an integral part of his justification, and his works perfected his faith.

There are works of obedience we are to do, as believers, (apart from the law of Moses), as part of justification.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I am sorry to hear about your mom brother yet, joyful that she responded to Christ before her last breath, may God comfort you and yours.

Thank you, oddly I am happy - she made it - I had my doubts.

 

[Amazed@grace]

Should be interesting.

Especially if you bring the blueberry muffins.

 

[Grailhunter]

Especially if you bring the blueberry muffins.

Ya! Blueberry everything!

 

[Taodeching]

Likewise for sure.
Billy is going to decide that the Gospel is true and he believes in Christ.
Billy goes to a local church and goes down to the front of the church and kneels and talks with the minster and explains he wants to give his life to Christ and the preacher and him have a good talk about repentance and Billy understands the failures of his life and wants to be a good Christian.
Billy goes to church the following Sunday and gets baptized.
Billy then goes to a church dinner where they perform the ritual of communion.

Well the works refereed to were the works of the law, so Billy needs to repent and be baptized to start his journey of Salvation.
So how does the above example have anything to do with the Mosaic Law or the need to repent.

Well Works talked about in the verse is the law, but if you explained better than I would have known what your talking about. To me none of that would be valid but maybe for evangelicals it is. Billy needs to go to Church when he decides to repent, he would get baptized, then be confirmed to receive the Holy Spirit and that is it. Billy than starts his salvation journey only to be complete upon death. Then Billy can partake of the elements when they are consecrated by the Priest.

 

[Taodeching]

He's in search of the Holy Grail.

 

[Amazed@grace]

Ya! Blueberry everything!

Yes. It is heaven.