What about Hell ?

[Helen]

"God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself."

That is why Jesus came...that is why He died. To bridge the gap of separation that fell on all through Adam. Adam's sin broke the fellowship. He fell into spiritual darkness and death...we were born into spiritual darkness and death.
Jesus brought us life and light.

Rom. 5:10. "We are reconciled to God by the death of his Son," is the same as saying that we are drawn to God (or to Jesus, which is the same thing) by the cross of his Son; and this latter is exactly the way the apostle express this same in Eph 2:16: "That He might reconcile both [Jew and Gentile, i.e. the whole world] unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby." ( broken down the separation once and for all )

He died to bring man back to Himself.

 

[Grams]

29
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

9
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

 

[Helen]

29
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

9
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

People say that they believe the bible...but they don't really.

How many people do you know who have done just that?
Do you know many one eyed or one handed Christians?

I don't know any.
Talk is cheap...

 

[GodsGrace]

The New Testament does a better job of describing the abode of the wicked called hell. In the OT it's often the idea of the grave. But even in the New Testament the word "hell" (KJV) is mistranslated in some places.

Matt 5:22
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
KJV

hell there is the word Geenan, from the OT. It's about the Valley of Hinnom, a perpetual burning garbage pit outside the walls of Jerusalem. Jesus used it as a symbol for the "lake of fire" that's to happen after the future thousand years of Revelation 20.

Luke 10:15
15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
KJV

That word "hell" in Luke 10 is the Greek word Haides. It's about the the abode of the wicked in the heavenly, like where the rich man of Luke 16 was taken to in Paradise, to the side across a great fixed border between him and where Lazaraus and Abraham were on the other side. This abode of the wicked will eventually go into... the "lake of fire" at the end of the thousand years.

2 Peter 2:4
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
KJV

That "hell" is the Greek word tartaroo, and means the deepest abyss of Haides. It's a holding place for the angels that God put in chains awaiting the Judgement.


So most often, God's Word is pointing to either the half of Paradise where the rich man was taken, or to the future "lake of fire" which Haides will go into and be no more.

In the Psalms, we are told the wicked will consume away in final. In Rev.14 we are shown it's the smoke of the burning that rises forever and ever. So which is it? Do the wicked perish like a final destruction and no more, or do they burn continually like a piece of bacon in the "lake of fire"?

Ps 37:10-11
10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
KJV

Ps 37:20
20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
KJV

I believe there's more evidence for the idea of hell going into the "lake of fire" and being no more, like what that Psalms 37 shows. I do not believe they will ever make it to the new heavens and a new earth timing that begins after the thousand years of Rev.20.

Why do you call it Geenan instead of Gehenna?

 

[Dcopymope]

I only know of one "Annihilationists" here on Site...I didn't know there were more.
I don't hold it myself. But if I didn't already believe in the greater grace of God and restitution of all things...I probably would.

"Restitution of all things".

(Acts 3:19-26) "¶ Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; {20} And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: {21} Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. {22} For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. {23} And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. {24} Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. {25} Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. {26} Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities."

What the O.T prophets spoke about:

(Genesis 12:1-3) "Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, unto a land that I will shew thee: {2} And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: {3} And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."

(2 Samuel 7:12-17) "¶ And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. {13} He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. {14} I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: {15} But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. {16} And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever. {17} According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David."

(Romans 11:16-26) "For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. {17} And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; {18} Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. {19} Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. {20} Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: {21} For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. {22} Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. {23} And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. {24} For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? {25} For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. {26} And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:"

By the "restitution of all things", Peter was referring to the restoration of Gods kingdom on earth, which will last forever. Some may be grafted onto the olive tree of salvation, and others may be cast aside because of unbelief, but Israel will be saved and persist. At no point did the old testament prophets Peter referred to ever say anything about the wicked being "restored".

 

[Helen]

M'okay.

 

[GodsGrace]

So you dont agree, that's fine, but why all the hostility and inflammatory language.

Because most here like to believe the Lord Jesus instead of YouTube or weird books.

 

[evotell]

Truth comes in all different shapes and sizes. Weird can often be associated with something outside conventional wisdom or our comfort zone.

The Bible doesn't have an exclusive franchise on the truth.

 

[Grams]

The bible is all true!

 

[ScottA]

The Bible doesn't have an exclusive franchise on the truth.

Now there you go dropping another bomb again...

The bible may not have an exclusive franchise on the truth...but God does, and the word that goes out in His name, is His providence alone, not that of men. Granted, the bible is riddled with parable language, by design. But that does not mean every word is not absolutely true. God is no fool, and to think that His word has been hijacked...is not a fact, it's a symptom, a symptom of the intentional confounding of all language by God.

Meanwhile, while half of the people are saying this and half of the people are saying that, God is doing something that is going unnoticed.

 

[evotell]

The bible is all true!

You might wanna re think that

 

[Grams]

NO!!!!!!! IT'S GOD'S WORD............

 

[evotell]

NO!!!!!!! IT'S GOD'S WORD............

which part

 

[APAK]

which part

Hello evotell:

It is evident that you have deliberately ‘slow rolled’ some of your beliefs on this site thus far. I guess that is your style and of course your choice. I reckon you will reveal more as time moves forward.

I just want to at least loosely gauge how you value scripture and where does your truth come from? It's just a curiosity thing and also a basis for discussion.

Is your signature quote the source of your truth: "No man is free who is not a master of himself" Epictetus?

And if this is the case are you suggesting or even implying that most people, including believers, get carried away with their use of their source of truth by displaying excessive passion and emotion to where the carnal mind cannot control it? And if this is the case the ridden rub maybe, not to you, that you may not want anything or anyone controlling yourself and your natural nature. You prefer self-
governance.

APAK

 

[Grams]

which part

All of it ! It is what GOD had told man to write this down !

ALL!

 

[evotell]

Hello evotell:

It is evident that you have deliberately ‘slow rolled’ some of your beliefs on this site thus far. I guess that is your style and of course your choice. I reckon you will reveal more as time moves forward.

I just want to at least loosely gauge how you value scripture and where does your truth come from? It's just a curiosity thing and also a basis for discussion.

Is your signature quote the source of your truth: "No man is free who is not a master of himself" Epictetus?

And if this is the case are you suggesting or even implying that most people, including believers, get carried away with their use of their source of truth by displaying excessive passion and emotion to where the carnal mind cannot control it? And if this is the case the ridden rub maybe, not to you, that you may not want anything or anyone controlling yourself and your natural nature. You prefer self-
governance.

APAK

Do you believe that quote is true?
I think I've made my position clear, "I'm not a fundamentalist or litralist as I would imagine most are on this site. The lights came on for me when I started understanding Jewish culture and that the Bible is a spiritual book which means that the truth that it opens up to us, is revealed to us by the Spirit NOT the human mind. Jesus said to Peter that "Flesh & blood did not reveal this to you, but my father in Heaven. Sadly most of Christendom is trapped in word games. Truth is all around us it just so happens that the Bible contains some of it. Its true that my kids love me but its not in the Bible.

The largest percentage of people who are encountering Christ today are Muslim, mostly through dreams and reading the Quran, have you read it. do you believe there is truth in it. Sadly much of Christendom has idealized the Bible and as has been said in this forum many have substituted the worship of the Bible instead of a relationship with Yeshua.

Shalom

 

[APAK]

Do you believe that quote is true?
I think I've made my position clear, "I'm not a fundamentalist or litralist as I would imagine most are on this site. The lights came on for me when I started understanding Jewish culture and that the Bible is a spiritual book which means that the truth that it opens up to us, is revealed to us by the Spirit NOT the human mind. Jesus said to Peter that "Flesh & blood did not reveal this to you, but my father in Heaven. Sadly most of Christendom is trapped in word games. Truth is all around us it just so happens that the Bible contains some of it. Its true that my kids love me but its not in the Bible.

The largest percentage of people who are encountering Christ today are Muslim, mostly through dreams and reading the Quran, have you read it. do you believe there is truth in it. Sadly much of Christendom has idealized the Bible and as has been said in this forum many have substituted the worship of the Bible instead of a relationship with Yeshua.

Shalom

evotell: I now see your view now.

Of course the spirit unlocks the Bible to be sure. I've grown to know that this is definitely true. I seem to translate scripture more easily when I sense the spirit working in me. I have had to revise my meanings of scripture over time when I try to wing it myself. Without coming off as a scripture-only apologetic though, there are many religions supporting some form of Christianity. And even here on this site, some attempt to support their belief models by interpreting scripture from their outer mind rather that via their hearts. I for one use scripture a lot in my posts to provide a spirit-filled view of the meaning of scripture at-hand, whenever I believe scripture is misapplied. I believe many do the same on this site. The rub is that either party cannot know for sure if the other possesses the spirit of interpretation or not.

I have read the man-inspired Quran and I do not see it has a benefit for a true believer at all. It is at least a distraction and worse, it can redirect and cause err to an immature believer in Christ. They can easily become a 'many -paths' to salvation kind of Christian.

I have read the Kabbalah, the so-called Jewish mystic writings meant to provide a commentary of the OT. It is based on the Zohar - the studying of the occult and worship of evil. I would not recommend these writing as inspired by God either. I've read most of the Babylonian Talmud. It is fiercely anti-Christian. The truth is not to be found there either.

Yes, I do definitely sense the spirit in my personal relationship with Jesus the Christ. The truth is there in my life everyday. My direction in life has shown me the truth of God. I, personally would not believe and extend that this knowledge is in all other decent and 'good' people around me. And that they possess the truth of God as well....not saying you are believing this...this line of reasoning or inward sensing (with or without emotions/passion) could lead to the conclusion that the truth lies in everyone and everything. That I cannot believe in. The spirit of God within me says, definitely not.

Thanks for your response,

APAK

 

[Taken]

I believe in God,

The devils also believe in God.
James 2:19

I don't "believe in" hell.

I hope new learners reject leaning toward your confession and learn the truth instead.

2 Peter 2 speaks of hell; of who goes there; and why.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

2 Peter 2 speaks of hell; of who goes there; and why.

if you could only Quote that tho

i mean, note how Tartarus for angels becomes "chastisement" for evildoers by v9,
2 Peter 2:9 Lexicon: then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment,

Strong's Greek: 2849. κολάζω (kolazó) -- to chastise

which you gotta dig even for "chastise," see, after English Scribes get done with it anyway

"to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment" is essentially a retarded Translation, deliberately deceptive imo

 

[Taken]

if you could only Quote that tho

i mean, note how Tartarus for angels becomes "chastisement" for evildoers by v9,
2 Peter 2:9 Lexicon: then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment,

Strong's Greek: 2849. κολάζω (kolazó) -- to chastise

which you gotta dig even for "chastise," see, after English Scribes get done with it anyway

"to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment" is essentially a retarded Translation, deliberately deceptive imo

Not sure your point.
Where should the unrighteousness souls go and WAIT for judgement day? With God? Maybe a Super Bowl party? A tropical beach?

God Bless,
Taken