What about Hell ?

[Taken]

Sorry but as Barney stated the "breath of life" is not the soul, it is simply the power of life which comes from the source of all life.

Agree.

“And so it is written, the first man Adam WAS MADE a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.” 1 Cor 15:45

Adam, body, man, form, was CREATED.

The CREATION is one thing.
The MAKING is another thing.

What God DOES to MAKE the CREATION "HAVE" something MORE...IS always BY and THROUGH Gods POWER.

The Earth was created.
Earth is called DRY LAND.
Dust is simply an element OF the Created
Earth.

God put HIS HANDS in the DUST of the EARTH and FORMED a KIND of something.
God called This KIND of thing, a MAN.

It was neither ALIVE or DEAD.

God MADE the man ALIVE, by GIVING the MAN, body, form, He created and formed from DUST...........LIFE FROM HIM (God).

THAT LIFE, God Gave to a MAN (body, form, dust)....is A SOUL, with GODS LIFE IN IT, thus called a LIVING SOUL.

How GOD IMPARTS LIFE INTO the KIND of thing He CALLED MAN, is via HIS Breath.

Now the man IS ALIVE, and that mans LIFE, (blood), IS ALIVE.

And when that mans LIFE (blood) is dying, God departs HIS LIFE, ie the Living soul, OUT OF THE DYING MAN. (Body).

Both the Man (body) and the imparted LIVING SOUL, are called by the same NAME. Called a man, called a soul, called living, called dead, called Moses, Abraham, Jacob, George, Herman, whatever the NAME is given to the BODY, it is also the SAME NAME that is given to the SOUL that was imparted INTO the body.

God NAMED the first man, male and female....ADAM.

Thereafter, MEN name men.
Adam Named Eve.

God SHALL give ALL MEN, "WITH" Him a New Name....evidenced by Scirpture so told us. Evidence by Scirpture of God Changing Mens Names...for examples.

Abram to Abraham..
Jacob to Israel..
Peter to Simon...

This scripture also, clearly states that the first man WAS MADE or BECAME a living soul, no mention is made of a soul (some sort of separate entity) being placed into the man.

The first man WAS created.
And then MADE to be called man & living soul.

You were created a man, formed by the Hand of God, from dust.

If God gives you life, that MAKES you living...okay, you are still a man of dust.

If you MAKE yourself CEO of your company ...
Okay, you are still a man of dust.

If you and woman MAKE yourself together in marriage...Okay, you are still a man of dust.

If you willingly GIVE your life (blood, body) TO Chirst....the Lord, will MAKE your body of dust, changed to forever Living, your soul to restored MADE to forever Living, your spirit to quickened MADE to forever Living.

God does not CREATE an individual man, BUT ONCE.

Thereafter God MAKES the individual man, ALIVE, temporarily, (imparting and departing) Life from Him...IN and OUT of the the Created thing.

IF the Created "thing", follows HIS Way, the created thing, can BE MADE to have forever LIFE from God, IN the created thing.

The confusion with many, seems to be that some have misinterpreted the “breath of life” as representing the [soul] that was communicated to man, however you need to read Genesis 2:7 over and over again several times, to get the proper thought.

Agree.

The “breath of life” was infused into the lifeless form of dust, and the two united produced a living sentient being, a living SOUL.

I would not say "infused". Just simply IMPARTED....since the same CAN and WILL be DEPARTED.

Does the Man (body) and soul WHILE separated things, SHARE things? Yes.

They share knowledge, understanding, wisdom, ......... and SIN!!

Is their understanding ALWAYS the same?
Knowledge, understanding, wisdom ALWAYS the same, IN AGREEMENT? No.

A mans MIND, can say trick, deceive, lie, cheat....
While a mans SOUL, is saying, eh, that's wrong...is that really what the MIND of man wants to do?....yes, it does?
Dang....now since the SOUL is IN the man, what the MANS MIND decides to DO...the SOUL, becomes SUBJECT TO what the man DOES.....

When the mans MIND decides to DO EVIL...and DOES IT....It is SIN....and oops,
The SOUL is NOW subject TO the same SIN.

And Presisely, APART from the BODY, the SOUL, REQUIRES forgiveness and SAVING.

THE BODY too, requires forgiveness and saving? Nope it shall die. Crucified with Christ....THEN washed, sanctified, Kept with Christ.........IT IS MADE sanctified, It is MADE justified...It is still a body of dust; until it is raised and MADE Glorified.

In the meantime...the body, that continues to LIVE physically....LIVES IN Christ's already glorified BODY.

Let us now break it down and examine some of the words and their particular meanings as they are used in our text of scripture.
(Also compare Gen 6:17; 7:15, 22, 23)

Agree...the step by step of what occurs must be divided step by step.

The difference between Adam and the other creatures is not in the breath, or spirit of lives. Man has the same kind of spirit of life. However, the difference is in that man has a finer organism.

The difference between ADAM, and other men, is Adam was NOT formed in a womb.
All other things are the same.
Men, body's are dust, formed by God, are MADE alive "temporarily", with Gods Life imparted into a soul, into the man.
All men have blood, their own Life of their body, that is brought into "temporary" living, via Gods Life.
All men have a natural spirit, which is their truth in their heart.
All men have a co-mingling of thoughts from their Natural MIND, their Natural TRUTH, and their Living Soul, from God.

WHEN God CONVERTS a man....the Conversion IS Spiritual, and specifically designed, to MAKE an alive man, Acceptable to BE WITH God...
Forgiving and covering the mans body with HIS Light.
Killing his body of SIN.
Justifying his body of SIN, with washing and sanctification.
Restoring his living soul of SIN, back to good.
Quickening his natural spirit (his truth), with Gods Truth, via Gods SEED...ie Gods Truth.
Making the man a NEW HEART, for Gods TRUTH to dwell along with the mans NEW quickened, reborn spirit.

What was "created" NATURAL, has become "made" SPIRITUAL.

God accomplishes, according TO HIS WAY.
Man WAITS to "SEE" all God has "accomplished" ... once our body is glorified.

In the meantime....MEN simply SEE, feel, notice, experience ...the "results" of Gods accomplishments within the man.

First you have the creation of the organism, “Thy hands (power) have made me, and fashioned me together roundabout; thou has made me as the clay.” Job 10:8, 9 and secondly upon birth you have infusion of “wind”, “breath” of life, thus we have a soul.

For a carnal analogy...
God creates a man and calls the man Adam.
Man buys a car and calls the car his sons.

God fills the man with blood.
Man fills the tank with gas.

God says this is you.
Man says this is yours.

God makes the blood living, with his life, in a soul.
Man makes the car functional with a key.

Gods gives the man, a living soul, the man functions.
Man gives the son, a key, the car functions.

Oh...BTW...
The Soul from God....it belongs to God.
The Life in the SOUL...belongs to God.
The Key to the Car...belongs to daddy.

Anytime....God can take....His soul, and His life OUT of the man (body).

Anytime...Daddy can take his Key from the son.

When God Takes His soul, His Life out of the body (man)....the man ceases to function, and we say, the man died.

When Daddy takes the Key from the son...
The car ceases functioning.

It is WHAT God does with the souls and life that continues the understanding...ACCORDING TO GOD.

Just as it is what the dad does with the KEY, that would continue the understanding....according to the dad.

Perhaps, God will restore the SOUL, fill it with HIS breath again? Or perhaps fill it with HIS SPIRIT and impart it BACK into the man.
Perhaps not, dependent upon the man.

Perhaps, the dad will restore the car, fill it with gas, and give the key back to the son.
Perhaps not, dependent upon the son.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

A man has an identity (name).
A man has his own life (blood).
A mans life is brought into living (mans blood),
Via Gods Life.
God IS Life. Vessels He imparts LIFE into, the vessel becomes Living.

God created and formed (vessels) from Dust.
God makes SOULS (vessels).

God IMPARTS a vessel (soul) with His Life in it............INTO a vessel (man)....and the man becomes ALIVE, with His own life (Blood).

When the vessel (man), becomes physically DEAD, the mans BLOOD (life) is DEAD.

Gods LIFE in the vessel (soul), is a living soul, that departs the DEAD BODY.

The mans dead body (vessel), called by the mans identity (NAME), returns to the ground, returns to dust.

The dead body (vessel), IS still called by the mans NAME. That vessel (body) WAITS to be resurrected, TO "as" it was, or TO "a" glorious body.

The Living Soul (vessel), departs out of the dead body, and IS STILL called by the mans NAME.

The Living Soul (vessel) with Life IN IT, waits WITH GOD, or SEPARATED FROM GOD, WAITING FOR Judgement.

If the Living soul (vessel) IS WITH GOD, it shall retain its LIVING state for ever, and once again Be imparted INTO it's Glorious Body.

If the Living soul (vessel) IS SEPARATED from God, it shall Have Life from God, Departed out of the vessel (soul) and Both the body and soul (without Life), shall be destroyed.

Two vessels, One created from Dust, One made by God. Both vessels, body & soul, given the ONE same NAME.
Each vessel with Life...
The Bodys life is Blood.
The Souls life is Gods Breath.

ALL blood life, SHALL Die.
Some souls SHALL Die.
Some souls SHALL live forever.
Some bodies SHALL be glorified and live forever.
Some bodies SHALL be destroyed thus, NOT live forever.

Gen 5:1
....which God CREATED and MADE..

Gen 5:2
...God "created" man....in the likeness of God
"MADE" he (God) him (man)

Gen 5:1
..MALE and FEMALE, Created he (God) them, and called their NAME Adam.

Man BODY is "CREATED" from Dust.
Man Body, is "MADE" in Gods likeness via a "LIVING SOUL".

Man WITH a living soul "IN" the body, "IS" in Gods "likeness".

Man WITHOUT a living soul "IN" the body, "IS DEAD", and NOT in Gods Likeness.

God Bless,
Taken

I disagree, as I said the scriptures in its use of the word 'soul' never in any context is talking about anything that departs the human body. The word 'soul' basically is talking about a breather, meaning a breather of oxygen whether you are talking about an animal or human. When God breathed the breath of life into Adam. I believe God instantly breathed oxygen into every cell of Adams body gave the body a spark starting his heart and lungs to continue that oxygen to be supplied to all his cells thus becoming a living soul (breathing creature).

 

[Taken]

I disagree, as I said the scriptures in its use of the word 'soul' never in any context is talking about anything that departs the human body.

I disagree.
Scripture disagrees.

1 Kings 17:
17 ~ 24

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I disagree.
Scripture disagrees.

1 Kings 17:
17 ~ 24

God Bless,
Taken

why is it then that I can't find a scripture in the bible in the context in which that scripture is written that the word soul is shown to be something invisible that separates from the body at death.

 

[Taken]

why is it then that I can't find a scripture in the bible in the context in which that scripture is written that the word soul is shown to be something invisible that separates from the body at death.

Perhaps because you did not go read the Scriptural reference I gave you.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Perhaps because you did not go read the Scriptural reference I gave you.

God Bless,
Taken

1 Kings 17:17-24
What the prophet Elijah prayed for was, not for a departed soul to return from the spirit world into the child’s body, but for the child’s life to return by God’s power that his dead body might become alive again and the child might come to be a living human soul again. In agreement with this, An American Translation reads here: “May this child’s life return into him again;" The New American Standard Bible reads: “The life of the child returned to him and he revived.” Yes, it was life, not some shadowy form from the spirit world, that returned to the boy.
where in this scripture does the Bible here say the child’s soul was alive in an invisible, spirit world and left and came back into the boy's body?

 

[Taken]

1 Kings 17:17-24
What the prophet Elijah prayed for was, not for a departed soul to return from the spirit world into the child’s body, but for the child’s life to return by God’s power that his dead body might become alive again and the child might come to be a living human soul again. In agreement with this, An American Translation reads here: “May this child’s life return into him again;" The New American Standard Bible reads: “The life of the child returned to him and he revived.” Yes, it was life, not some shadowy form from the spirit world, that returned to the boy.

where in this scripture does the Bible here say the child’s soul was alive in an invisible, spirit world and left and came back into the boy's body?

You are not the author of Gods Word; thus I don't expect the Word of God is conformed to your words.

God IS Spirit. God is Life. God is Invisible. Nothing has Life in it without God giving the thing Life.

God Created and formed MAN from the dust.
That form is a body. It's Life is it's BLOOD.

The formed body, is brought into a Living state BY that body receiving a Living soul.

The living soul is imparted into the body VIA, Gods BREATH.

We know, God requires the LIFE, ie the Blood of all men. Thus we know All men, all bodies, shall die.

There is no sentence for ALL souls to die.
However All souls separated from God SHALL die.
And God provided a WAY, for souls to be SAVED from Death.

The body of man, also has lungs which Breath. When a mans body is dying, it breathes it's last breath, and the living soul Departs the dying body.

The body becomes dead, and returns to dust.

The living soul....Belonged to God when He imparted it into the body, and Belongs to God when it departs out of the dead body.

Departed Living souls, Saved, are WITH God.
Departed Living souls, NOT Saved, are Separated from, and WITHOUT God.

There has not YET, been any Living souls standing before the JUDGE, receiving "their" Judgement, nor has their "Sentence" YET been carried out.
They are IN WAITING for Judgement.
Some are in WAITING in Heaven with God.
Some are in WAITING in Hell without God.

I specifically gave you the Scripture
1 Kings 17:17-24
Which reveals a dead body, a departed soul, an imparted soul, the body revived, effected by the Power of God.

Forward there are several other cases of Dead body's revived.

You should have learned from 1 Kings 17;
The How is by the Power of God returning the Living soul to the Body.

2 Kings 13: 20-21
Luke 7:11-17
Luke 8: 52-56
John 11
Matt 27:50-53
Acts 9:36-43
Acts 20: 7-12
Mark 16: 1-8

You should have also learned;
Things Jesus revealed about Living souls that departed Dead body's.

Whether WITH God or Separated from God;
Living souls departed out of dead bodys..
(The dead body's know nothing.)
The Living souls, continue, hearing, talking, seeing, feeling, smelling. And have memory of life on earth, when in was the body.

Luke 16: 19-31

Both the Body and the Living Soul, have the same identity and Name. So also, does any man whose spirit is born again have the same identity and Name.

A natural born man receiving a Living "soul" from God, is specificially to bring the natural born man into a LIVING STATE, is specifically a Quickening of the mans BODY.
This is specifically, the man receiving the BREATH OF LIFE of the Holy Ghost.

A natural born man receiving A Living "spirit" from God, is specifically to bring the natural born mans "spirit" into a FOREVER LIVING STATE, is specifically a Quickening of the mans SPIRIT.
This is specifically, the man receiving the INCORRUPTABLE SEED of the Holy Spirit.

The body's life is blood.
The body begins it's life, when it receives the breath of Life from the Holy Ghost, ie a living soul.
The born again spirit of man, begins it's born again life, when it receivies the Seed of God from the Holy Spirit, ie a born again spirit.

Upon bodily physical dead of such a man;
The living soul departs, and goes to God.
The living spirit departs, and goes to God.
The body is justified to be raised later.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

1 Kings 17:17-24
What the prophet Elijah prayed for was, not for a departed soul to return from the spirit world into the child’s body, but for the child’s life to return by God’s power that his dead body might become alive again and the child might come to be a living human soul again.

What you're missing is the understanding.

Elijah praying for the boys life to return...
IS returned, VIA God returning the LIVING soul to the boys body, which brought the boys LIFE (blood) back into functioning.

A body without a living soul IN The Body, is a non living body.

Adams body was not created LIVING.
It was given Life via a living soul, imparted into the body, via, Gods breath.

Every body that is ALIVE, Has life via a living soul.

Every dead Body, is VOID of a Living soul.
The Living soul, departs out of a dying body.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

What you're missing is the understanding.

Elijah praying for the boys life to return...
IS returned, VIA God returning the LIVING soul to the boys body, which brought the boys LIFE (blood) back into functioning.

A body without a living soul IN The Body, is a non living body.

Adams body was not created LIVING.
It was given Life via a living soul, imparted into the body, via, Gods breath.

Every body that is ALIVE, Has life via a living soul.

Every dead Body, is VOID of a Living soul.
The Living soul, departs out of a dying body.

God Bless,
Taken

I believe I understand very well. The word Soul ( breather of oxygen; the breath of life), when used in scripture, is either talking about an animal or human that breathes oxygen, both animals and humans have that same breath of life, both animals and humans are souls, they don't have Souls they are Souls. In scripture, the word Soul is used to speak of that life that animal or human enjoys.

The Jewish Publication Society of America issued a new translation of the Torah, or first five books of the Bible, the editor-in-chief, H. M. Orlinsky of Hebrew Union College, stated that the word “soul” had been virtually eliminated from this translation because “the Hebrew word in question here is ‘Nefesh.’” He added: “Other translators have interpreted it to mean ‘soul,’ which is completely inaccurate. The Bible does not say we have a soul. ‘Nefesh’ is the person himself, his need for food, the very blood in his veins, his being.”—The New York Times, October 12, 1962.

 

[Taken]

I believe I understand very well. The word Soul ( breather of oxygen; the breath of life), when used in scripture, is either talking about an animal or human that breathes oxygen, both animals and humans have that same breath of life, both animals and humans are souls, they don't have Souls they are Souls. In scripture, the word Soul is used to speak of that life that animal or human enjoys.

The Jewish Publication Society of America issued a new translation of the Torah, or first five books of the Bible, the editor-in-chief, H. M. Orlinsky of Hebrew Union College, stated that the word “soul” had been virtually eliminated from this translation because “the Hebrew word in question here is ‘Nefesh.’” He added: “Other translators have interpreted it to mean ‘soul,’ which is completely inaccurate. The Bible does not say we have a soul. ‘Nefesh’ is the person himself, his need for food, the very blood in his veins, his being.”—The New York Times, October 12, 1962.

No issue with me.

I have life of my body. It is my blood, and God requires my life of my body, thus my body shall die.

Gen 9:1

And when the life (blood) of my body is dying, my living soul shall depart my dying body, same as Rachel's did.

Gen 35:18

And when the life of my body dies, my body shall be buried, my Living soul shall go to Heaven, and my eternally born again spirit shall be received unto God, same as Stephen.

Acts 7:59

And when Jesus, with His Power and Glory calls up my body, it shall be glorified and go unto the Lord, who shall have with Him, His reward, to me.

Luke 21:27
Rev 22:12
Rom 8:7

Scripture is clear what is natural and what is spiritual pertaining to one WHOLE man.
Body, Soul, Spirit...of mankind.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Helen]

Not until the sixth century, did the belief in endless hell become prevalent within the Christian church.
It is true that modern Greeks use “the ages of the ages” to denote an endless succession of ages, but this is due to the influence of the Greek Orthodox Church. That this expression “the eons of the eons” does not mean an endless succession of ages is established beyond doubt by comparing Revelation 11:14,15 with 1 Corinthians 15:22-28. In Revelation 11, Christ is said to reign “for the eons of the eons.”
In 1 Corinthians 15, the reign of Christ is said to end. Therefore, if He reigns for the eons of the eons and His reign ends, the eons of the eons cannot be endless!
Hebrews 9:26 says that the eons, collectively, end, so regardless of their number, they will collectively end.

To be sure there will be judgement. Wrongs will be righted.
To those who have sinned much it will mean much sorrow , affliction and distress, Romans 2:8-9. But God corrects and disciplines only for good.
Even hardened sinners who have often cursed Him, will be thankful for the strokes that bring them back to God.
Each one gets only what is good for them in the judgement, not to damn them forever, but to prepare them for God’s salvation.
If necessary, God will use a negative manifestation of His love, but negative or positive, He will keep loving, and keep loving until He has elicited a loving response from everyone.
Love always wins

 

[Nancy]

The word Hell is used a lot here it seems…so I thought it may be interesting to chat about it.
I am sure we have many different takes on it between us all. :)

I’ll kick it of with this.....

Those of us who have done a lot of witnessing , outreach , and trying to share our faith with unbelievers know that we are often confronted with many questions, especially on the subject of Hell and eternal punishment. We’ve been there, done that haven’t we.
We have found that many people have a real problem with Orthodox Christianity's belief that non-Christians will be punished eternally because they are not Christians.
We have found that this is one of the main reasons many Christians do NOT enjoy sharing their faith with the unsaved! They find themselves coming up short of good answers to questions or statements like these few below…..all viable questions from the unsaved point of view....but an answer has to be given when in a conversation.

"If my daughter is in Hell because she did not get "born again" then I'd rather go to Hell and be with her than to be with your God, because there would be more love in Hell than near your vindictive God."
Or….
"How can you believe that burning someone alive forever is "just" or "fair” God. Even we humans fit the punishment to the crime……..but according to Christians, unsaved people are destined to be burned in Hell whether we are bad or not."

"Just being born into this world is grounds for being endlessly tortured!!"

"You say the punishment is the same regardless of the number of sins committed or how bad they were. That does not sound like justice….it sounds like insanity!"

"Infinite punishment for finite crimes ….does that sound just doesn't seem to be for me..worldly judges do better than that!"

"I could never torture people endlessly, especially my own children. How can you say that God will do that to His children? You make God look like a monster even worse than Hitler but not a loving Father Who would die for His enemies!"

"If Hell is real and the greatest part of humanity will go there, how can you say that - 'Love NEVER fails?’ Seems like Love fails most of the time according to your understanding of things."

"If the wages of sin is eternal punishment in Hell, then Jesus would have to be eternally punished in Hell "

Sadly THIS is the understanding that ‘the church’ has given to them over the decades…and we wonder why people aren’t flooding to the churches!?

Why don't the Jews…. many who know the Old Testament much better than we Christians do,... don’t believe in the modern Christian concept of Hell?

They say they don't believe it because it is not in their Scriptures.
Most scholars can't find Hell in the Old Testament. Most leading Bible translations no longer contain the word Hell in the entire Old Testament.

If Hell doesn't exist in the Old Testament, how could Jesus and his disciples teach that salvation was deliverance from a place that is not even found in their Scriptures? (There was only the Old Testament at that time.) Does that make Him ‘ ppear' like a false teacher?

Or could it be that Jesus never taught such a concept like that in the first place? Could it be that this concept has been added by the church and to some Bibles translations, through "traditions of men?"

Excellent questions Helen. They are not easy to answer because I think most Christians just believe Christ=eternity with Him. No Christ= burning in torture for-ever. There has to be so much more to all of this, I know there is as there are several name 's people use for "hell" like, Gehana, Hades....Good post, can't wait to see what people will say ;)

 

[Nancy]

The word Hell is used a lot here it seems…so I thought it may be interesting to chat about it.
I am sure we have many different takes on it between us all. :)

I’ll kick it of with this.....

Those of us who have done a lot of witnessing , outreach , and trying to share our faith with unbelievers know that we are often confronted with many questions, especially on the subject of Hell and eternal punishment. We’ve been there, done that haven’t we.
We have found that many people have a real problem with Orthodox Christianity's belief that non-Christians will be punished eternally because they are not Christians.
We have found that this is one of the main reasons many Christians do NOT enjoy sharing their faith with the unsaved! They find themselves coming up short of good answers to questions or statements like these few below…..all viable questions from the unsaved point of view....but an answer has to be given when in a conversation.

"If my daughter is in Hell because she did not get "born again" then I'd rather go to Hell and be with her than to be with your God, because there would be more love in Hell than near your vindictive God."
Or….
"How can you believe that burning someone alive forever is "just" or "fair” God. Even we humans fit the punishment to the crime……..but according to Christians, unsaved people are destined to be burned in Hell whether we are bad or not."

"Just being born into this world is grounds for being endlessly tortured!!"

"You say the punishment is the same regardless of the number of sins committed or how bad they were. That does not sound like justice….it sounds like insanity!"

"Infinite punishment for finite crimes ….does that sound just doesn't seem to be for me..worldly judges do better than that!"

"I could never torture people endlessly, especially my own children. How can you say that God will do that to His children? You make God look like a monster even worse than Hitler but not a loving Father Who would die for His enemies!"

"If Hell is real and the greatest part of humanity will go there, how can you say that - 'Love NEVER fails?’ Seems like Love fails most of the time according to your understanding of things."

"If the wages of sin is eternal punishment in Hell, then Jesus would have to be eternally punished in Hell "

Sadly THIS is the understanding that ‘the church’ has given to them over the decades…and we wonder why people aren’t flooding to the churches!?

Why don't the Jews…. many who know the Old Testament much better than we Christians do,... don’t believe in the modern Christian concept of Hell?

They say they don't believe it because it is not in their Scriptures.
Most scholars can't find Hell in the Old Testament. Most leading Bible translations no longer contain the word Hell in the entire Old Testament.

If Hell doesn't exist in the Old Testament, how could Jesus and his disciples teach that salvation was deliverance from a place that is not even found in their Scriptures? (There was only the Old Testament at that time.) Does that make Him ‘ ppear' like a false teacher?

Or could it be that Jesus never taught such a concept like that in the first place? Could it be that this concept has been added by the church and to some Bibles translations, through "traditions of men?"

Oops...just saw how old this thread is, lol.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

The Lake of Fire was the hell I was referring to.

One thing that I believe everyone should understand is that the word, "hell", is a english word that translates a Greek word, "Hades", which was the original word in the Greek scriptures ( New Testament). Also when the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) were being translated into Greek the original hebrew word, "Sheol" was replaced with the Greek word,
"Hades". When the time came that the scriptures were being translated into English the word "Hell" replaced, "Hades".

But when I'm thinking on things as, "Lake of Fire", "Sheol", "Hades", "Hell", Gehenna, because I don't believe i have a soul but instead I believe i as the scriptures teach me that i am a soul, then such things as, lake of fire, Sheol, Hades, Gehenna and Hell i believe should be viewed symbolically not literally. What i see is that when the scriptures say when a person goes to a place like Hades, Sheol, Hell after they die no matter they are righteous or unrighteous they will be resurrected while those who go to places like, lake of fire or Gehenna will be destroyed forever (annihilated out of existence forever). The Bible doesn't say the lake of fire is Sheol or Hades or Hell, the Bible says the lake of fire is the second death. You believe that or you don't. The Bible also says that death and hell or Hades is thrown into the lake of fire, why? Isn't it because death and he'll or Hades are destroyed out of existence forever or do we believeThat's impossible for The True God to do.

 

[Helen]

Oops...just saw how old this thread is, lol.

Yes, I started it a long time ago...but I posted a new post on it today.
Not sure if you saw todays post.
Anyway..you are okay in responding..todays was a new post! :)

 

[Frank Lee]

What I know about hell is fore most what the Holy Spirit showed me in a vision after a fast.

The Great Iron Jaws
by Frank Lee Jennings

(as shown by the Lord
to me one night 30+ years ago)


There was a time earlier in my Christian journey when God dealt more with me in dreams and visions than He does now, though He still does from time to time. After a fast He would give me a dream or vision while I was asleep, that was very realistic, just as if it was real and I was a witness or a participant.

Matthew 6:3-4 KJVS
But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: [4] That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

and,

Acts 2:17 KJVS
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

and,

Job 33:14-17 KJVS
For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not.
[15] In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed;
[16] Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction,
[17] That he may withdraw man from his purpose, and hide pride from man.

I had ended a fast that day and went to sleep that night. As I slept God sent a terribly vivid vision or dream. In this I was an observer but not a participant. I was watching two men on the ground wrestling, struggling and fighting against each other. They were stereotypical of men in the world, each trying to get an advantage over the other. To climb higher, be better, make more money and all of the rest that's part of the ways of the world. It wasn't black there but was very dark and shadowy.

Behind these men and not noticed by them was an imposing, dreadful apparatus. Imagine if you will a massive set of jaws similar to those we have. Both the top and bottom jaws were lined with massive rectangular teeth, each tooth being say fifteen feet in height and ten feet in width. These "teeth" were in a straight line top and bottom, not curved as a human jaw. The entire structure appeared to be made of old, massive pieces of steel or iron.

The impressive thing about the teeth was that each one was hinged where it met the solid iron jaw. The top teeth hinged at the tops and the bottom teeth hinged at the bottoms. As the jaws opened vertically (like a freight elevator) each of these teeth would begin to hinge back and forth at random and in so doing would make a sort of gobbling action. And one more thing, it seems that all that hinging back and forth of all those iron teeth made a terrible squealing noise as unlubricated iron on iron is apt to do. With this sort of motion anything close to those fearful jaws would be gobbled to the inside. What lay on the other side of those jaws I did not jknow nor did I want to think about.

Now, I'd always considered that the gates of hell, what few times I did think of them, were set side by side like all the gates we are familiar with. What the Spirit of God was showing me here was a massive, terrible gate that opened like some freight elevators, top gate goes up, bottom jaw goes down, but the mating edges were lined with those hinging teeth.

These were the gates of hell that these two ignorant men were were next to. So close to being gobbled up and not even aware of it. As they wrestled, rolling back and forth on the ground, they moved against those horrible gobbling teeth, gobbling, hinging back and forth. They were quickly consumed, swept inside by the jaws and delivered to the darkness on the other side.

After they were eaten, the teeth ceased their gobbling and were still. Those naive jaws closed so that the top and bottom teeth met. It was quiet after Jaws and teeth stopped their actions. The jaws were closed and the teeth were together, similar to our jaws when shut with teeth resting together. All the while I had been standing off to one side, away from the jaws, quietly, fearfully witnessing the whole thing.

After some unknown period of time had passed, years or minutes I know not, the jaws opened again and spat out those same two men. Immediately I saw them as they were both laboring in a large, busy restaurant. They were joyfully rushing from table to table and at one point actually dove together to catch a small crumb that had fallen from one of the tables.

As this scene played the Lord began a narrative about these men and their labors. Though I was deep in sleep it was as if i were watching a movie, He said; "these two men after experiencing these gates, and what awaited them on the other side of them, would do anything to avoid returning there. No job would be to hard, dirty or difficult, no hours would be too long, no conditions too harsh or adverse. They would cheerfully do any and every task and praise God all the while they worked. They would never again complain. But in reality this cannot happen. Once a person, man or woman, passes through those jaws they can never return. Hell is a one way ticket. They have entered forever. This is the message that came with the terrible scenes and emotions. I was like Job who lamented;

Job 7:13-14 KJVS
When I say, My bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaint;
[14] Then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions:

That was the end of the Lord's message and after that I awoke. My heart and my mind were racing and a fear gripped me that I will not even attempt to describe. "Lord, is that me"!? I didn't know what to say or do. As I lie there a verse of scripture was very strongly impressed to my heart and mind. With the bed side lamp on, I grabbed my bible and turned as quickly as I could to it. Hebrews 10:35;


Hebrews 10:35 KJVS
Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.

We're this not an actual place certainly God would not have shown it to me.

A great wave of relief and Thanksgiving replaced my fear and apprehension. He has given me dreams of great beauty, peace and encouragement from time to time but this dream was a warning for all.
So let us all be advised. God does not give such things just to pass the time. Even though this was three decades or more ago the spiritual impression it made on me is like a branded mark. I'll never forget it.

Hebrews 10:31 KJVS
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

2 Corinthians 5:11 KJVS
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Paul knew the terror of the Lord. Pray God that you escape those Jaws. If you are a Christian, a person that has been born again and is a dedicated disciple of Jesus then rejoice. You have escaped the damnation of hell. I post this for me and for all who believe and all who will come to believe. Any peace, comfort, quietness of spirit you are presently enjoying is because God has graciously granted it. I can get still and quiet at any time and realize that the peace of God and His wonderful presence surrounds me. The Holy Spirit of God is wonderfully here! Praise be for His gift of peace. Try to imagine what it would be like without His presence and peace. You cannot because even as a sinner He allowed us all to have a measure of His presence. I doubt if you can imagine his absence unless He has allowed you to briefly experience it. The absence of the peace of God is the eternal atmosphere of hell. He is Lord of all.

That's what it's like on the far side of those gates. He did not give me this just for myself but for whosoever will. He that has ears to hear let him hear. I have been chastened and scourged by God and I praise Him for it, for He still is dealing with me as a son. A blow from the correcting hand of God is better than any kind embrace from others, since He is directing us in His ways.

Hebrews 5:8 KJVS
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Mark 7:16 KJVS
If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

Though I've been saved 40 years, in the last two years friends God has yanked me out of one life and thrust me into another more serious, sober one. God never stops working in us. Never. Think that since you've been saved and then baptized in His Holy Spirit that the work's all done? Wrong, way wrong. You will be amazed to find that God will find plenty of wrinkles in your spiritual garments that need a good ironing.

Philippians 1:6 KJVS
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

It's for our good and training that the Holy Spirit shapes us and for the good and teaching of everyone that listens. I do not pretend to know everything and there are no experts on God. Like the disciples we can only speak the things we've seen, heard and experienced that align with the word of God. In sharing this I am relaying the portion of the Bible he wanted be to share. I've done that. Refer all questions to the Lord.

May the Lord settle and comfort you, cause you to see that though the path be hard and narrow, hedged with briars, He always walks with you.

In His service,

Frank Lee Jennings

 

[Taken]

OP ~ What about Hell?

Helen ~ Nancy ~ Frank

Do not overlook the basic information, before delving into the deep.

God...Creates things and Makes things.
The things God "creates" do not disappear...
The "making", is God "making a Change" to the THINGS, He has "Created".

God does not Change, however the things He has created, do change.

In the beginning we get simplistic knowledge,
As a babe does. As time passes, we get more knowledge. As effort to learn the knowledge passes, we can receive the understanding of the knowledge, which is hidden in thee Lord God Himself.

Much knowledge was given men over 4,000 years of the OT, and yet there was knowledge AND understanding hidden from them.

The knowledge comes from God. So also does the change "making" come from God.
So also does the "understanding" come from God.

Gods Word, is paramount; (regardless of the MANNER, God has elected to GIVE HIS WORD to His creations) It is the most basic form of HOW God Communicates to and with His Creations, that can and can not See Him.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

OP ~ What about hell?

Helen, Nancy, Frank

Worlds ~ Estates ~ Places ~ Habitats
Whatever the preferred term, have to do with "things" God has Created ~
From out of WHAT He Created Them.
And From out of WHAT is their First Place to exist.

Gen 1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Things ^ first. Places, Worlds, Estates.
Very simple knowledge.

It is via delving into the Word of God, we learn more about these Creations...

Heaven has "levels"...called Heaven(S)

Gen 2
Thus the Heaven(S) and earth were finished AND ALL the host (occupants) of them.

Paramount knowledge....."ALL" the "hosts" of the Heaven(s) and earth were created.

Astounding information...!!
All angels were created in the beginning.
All humans were created in the beginning.

ALL have a BODY.
1 Cor 15:40
Celestrial bodies
Terrestrial bodies

(Notice, this Knowledge is not Revealed in the beginning).

And notice, briefly there is mention of "sons of God" mating with "daughters of men"....

Who IS a son of God, Who they were, is not revealed until later.

Every Terrestrial Body has a "Destiny"...and Final "Destination"...

How so....Before a man IS BORN?
Because He was "created" eons ago, in the beginning.
And God who knows ALL things, knows What ALL Terrestrial (mankind) shall freely Choose,
BEFORE the man is ever revealed (BORN), grows, and even understand himself, that he is a Human person.

(Considering a person does not remember being in his mothers womb, nor being born, nor being an infant. Nor does he remember being created in the beginning, when ALL the host of the earth was created.)

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

OP ~ What about hell?

Helen ~ Nancy ~ Frank

Levels of the Heaven(s) ~

High Heaven ~ Gods Estate, yet ALL of Heaven is His Throne.

Mid Heaven ~ Estate of Holy Angels.

Lower Heaven ~ Earths Visible Sky's. A "glimpse" of Heaven, if you will, that Human eyes can see.

Heaven is and has a firmament.
The firmament is "waters"....
A "separation" of sorts....that does not allow Human eyes to SEE the whole of Heaven.

Gen 1: 6, 7, 8

Earth routinely receives Water from the firmament, that separates, the lower heavens from the mid heavens.
The Waters falling....caused by the Same One God....may be a blessing...or a curse....as men on earth have experienced the results of waters coming down from the lower heaven.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

OP ~ What about Hell?

Helen ~ Nancy ~ Frank

Earth has a surface, called Dust. It is the intended Place for bodies born upON the earth to occupy, as their Estate.

Earth also has a "layer" below the surface.
Called, soil. The soil is where God scattered SEEDS, to bring forth FOOD, herbs, plants, and building materials, (trees), and shade (trees) and fruit (trees) ...for the terrestrial bodys (hosts)...to maintain their Existence.
Gen 1:11

Also below the surface, deeper in the soil, is a place, for men to bury, the dead, stinking, rotting flesh of a dead mans body.

The body of a terrestrial, came forth out of the earth, lived on the surface of the earth, returns to earth, buried, because ALL things separated from God, is dark, stinks, unpleasant, called dead.

In the DEEPEST part / level of the Earth, also called the Heart of the Earth...
Matt 12:40

IS a place....FOR living souls.
IS a place....Called by several NAMES.

God Bless,
Taken