What and when is the rapture Part 2

[Timtofly]

Revelation 17:4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. 5 The name written on her forehead was a mystery: Babylon the great, the mother of prostitutes, and of the abominations of the earth.

There are many religions acting as the state. There are nations claiming total atheism. Are you saying the woman is also the beast as well? Seems like the same outcome regardless.

Is this woman being destroyed; Armageddon?

 

[Timtofly]

In terms of a verse like Ephesians 2:6, that is talking about a current reality of spiritually being seated with Christ in the heavenly realms (not bodily, but spiritually). Do you understand that?

Those currently in heaven have permanent incorruptible physical bodies. I am sure they disagree with your assessment of their situation, as it is quite different than yours.

You may be there in spirit, but they serve God night and day per Revelation 7. The majority of the church has already exited this life during the last 1992 years of tribulation per Matthew 24:4-14. Unless you don't think the stoning of Stephen and James killed in the early church was enough tribulation?

"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

Enduring until the end did not mean they all had to live for 2 thousand years. Every generation had to be faithful until physical death freed their soul and allowed them to enter life with a permanent incorruptible physical body. That is the salvation of the first resurrection, for every one who chose life over death.

It is not just spiritual. It is physical because Jesus was the Resurrection and the Life in the first century, not some future expectation.

 

[Marty fox]

Scripture does not say the prostitute is the Babylonian kingdom. That is the beast she is riding on. The prostitute is religion.

The Babylonian Kingdom destroys religion, because religion failed humanity. There is only one battle with the Lamb as written in Revelation 17, and it is Armageddon.

"These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."

This army is the one gathered in the 6th vial:

"For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. And he (God Almighty) gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon."

God gathers all humanity left on earth to fight against the Lamb at Armageddon. Revelation 19 is the Lamb at Armageddon.

Jesus is God, so yes, Jesus is there in Revelation 16. Thought you knew that Jesus and God are one Lord? Satan is there at Armageddon and bound for 1,000 years in the pit, because his army lost the battle and all were killed.

"And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth."

Do you not see that religion is symbolized by a city riding the Babylonian Kingdom and using religion to rule the world? The beast cannot be both the woman and the beast. The beast represents human government. The woman represents religion that rules over human government. They go hand in hand until religion fails. When all humanity has the mark, religion is no longer necessary. The AoD is complete, and a religious moral code evaporated.

So instead of moving on and rambling on answer the yes or no questions please. You keep ignoring them how come?

 

[Timtofly]

So instead of moving on and rambling on answer the yes or no questions please. You keep ignoring them how come?

No.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.

 

[Marty fox]

No.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.

Thank you for answering these questions.

1-Sorrey but Revelation chapter 16 is the only chapter in the entire bible to mention Armageddon
2-Chapter 16 doesn't mention Jesus
3-Yes
4-Yes
5-Chapter 19 doesn't mention Babylon the great
6-Chapter 19 doesn't mention Armageddon
7-Yes
8-yes

You are incorrect 4 out of 8 of the questions but my point is to show that the bible describes these battels differently with different combatants and different outcome thus they cannot be the same battles. Here is more proof that they are not the same battle.


Rev 16:17-21
17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is done!” 18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth. 19 Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. 20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great.

Rev 19:17-21
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”

19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

If you see in chapter 16 it is only Babylon the great that is destroyed and there is also a great earthquake and hailstorm. People also survive this event.

Now in chapter 19 there is no mention of any earthquake or hailstorm. Also no one survives as all people are killed and this battle doesn't mention Babylon the great and the beast and the false prophet are also defeated.

Thus there is no way these are the same battles they are biblically described and named differently with different participance and different outcomes.

 

[Timtofly]

Thank you for answering these questions.

1-Sorrey but Revelation chapter 16 is the only chapter in the entire bible to mention Armageddon
2-Chapter 16 doesn't mention Jesus
3-Yes
4-Yes
5-Chapter 19 doesn't mention Babylon the great
6-Chapter 19 doesn't mention Armageddon
7-Yes
8-yes

You are incorrect 4 out of 8 of the questions but my point is to show that the bible describes these battels differently with different combatants and different outcome thus they cannot be the same battles. Here is more proof that they are not the same battle.


Rev 16:17-21
17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is done!” 18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth. 19 Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. 20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great.

Rev 19:17-21
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”

19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

If you see in chapter 16 it is only Babylon the great that is destroyed and there is also a great earthquake and hailstorm. People also survive this event.

Now in chapter 19 there is no mention of any earthquake or hailstorm. Also no one survives as all people are killed and this battle doesn't mention Babylon the great and the beast and the false prophet are also defeated.

Thus there is no way these are the same battles they are biblically described and named differently with different participance and different outcomes.

Obviously you don't interpret Scripture with Scripture.

You interpret according to your own opinion. You really cannot put Armageddon in any other chapter, based on your own rule of interpretation.

So Obviously there are 4 major battles in 16, 17, 18, and 19, and Jesus comes to earth 4 different times for each destruction of Satan's Kingdom. That seems to be your opinion of the end of those 42 month that start in Revelation 13.

Babylon the great is not a literal city. It is Satan's Kingdom. Jerusalem is the city that suffers the earthquake. The battle of Armageddon is in the valley of Megiddo 60 miles north east of Jerusalem. The battle in 16, 17, 18, and 19 against the Lamb, Jesus Christ is not about a literal city. It is about gathering all humanity into one place.

 

[Marty fox]

Obviously you don't interpret Scripture with Scripture.

You interpret according to your own opinion. You really cannot put Armageddon in any other chapter, based on your own rule of interpretation.

So Obviously there are 4 major battles in 16, 17, 18, and 19, and Jesus comes to earth 4 different times for each destruction of Satan's Kingdom. That seems to be your opinion of the end of those 42 month that start in Revelation 13.

Babylon the great is not a literal city. It is Satan's Kingdom. Jerusalem is the city that suffers the earthquake. The battle of Armageddon is in the valley of Megiddo 60 miles north east of Jerusalem. The battle in 16, 17, 18, and 19 against the Lamb, Jesus Christ is not about a literal city. It is about gathering all humanity into one place.

Actually, I did interpret scripture with scripture and I posted the scriptures to prove it.

The battle in chapters 16, 17 and 18 are the same because they have the same combatants and outcomes.

I believe that Babylon the great city is Jerusalem and scripture backs it up.

How can you still believe that the two battles are the same with what is below?

If you see in chapter 16 it is only Babylon the great that is destroyed and there is also a great earthquake and hailstorm. People also survive this event.

Now in chapter 19 there is no mention of any earthquake or hailstorm. Also no one survives as all people are killed and this battle doesn't mention Babylon the great and the beast and the false prophet are also defeated.

Thus there is no way these are the same battles they are biblically described and named differently with different participance and different outcomes.

I just interpreted scripture with scripture above.

 

[Timtofly]

Actually, I did interpret scripture with scripture and I posted the scriptures to prove it.

The battle in chapters 16, 17 and 18 are the same because they have the same combatants and outcomes.

I believe that Babylon the great city is Jerusalem and scripture backs it up.

How can you still believe that the two battles are the same with what is below?

If you see in chapter 16 it is only Babylon the great that is destroyed and there is also a great earthquake and hailstorm. People also survive this event.

Now in chapter 19 there is no mention of any earthquake or hailstorm. Also no one survives as all people are killed and this battle doesn't mention Babylon the great and the beast and the false prophet are also defeated.

Thus there is no way these are the same battles they are biblically described and named differently with different participance and different outcomes.

I just interpreted scripture with scripture above.

Because they are gathered at Megiddo for the battle of Armageddon. Armageddon is not fought at nor over Jerusalem.

An earthquake changes Jerusalem, not a battle. Jerusalem is not destroyed by the kings of the earth.

No you pointed out verses declaring your opinion. If you compare Scripture with Scripture there is only one Armageddon battle, and it is won by Jesus in chapter 19. Did you look up the Greek words for this term Armageddon? Or do you think it is just a battle term to make interesting movies around? It is a specific location. And not Jerusalem. And your battle in Revelation 17:16-18 is not a battle.

"As for the ten horns that you saw and the beast, they will hate the whore, bring her to ruin, leave her naked, eat her flesh and consume her with fire. For God put it in their hearts to do what will fulfill his purpose, that is, to be of one mind and give their kingdom to the beast until God’s words have accomplished their intent. And the woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

That is your opinion. My opinion is that they ate her flesh and did so by cooking her with fire. Is that symbolic of a battle? That is not warfare, that is a struggle over dominance. As I pointed out the woman represented religion, and the beast human government. The same symbolism in Revelation 13. The beast, human government produces a false prophet figure head. This FP is the herald of Satan. Satan is the land beast with lamb horns but speaking as a dragon. But this Babylonian Kingdom they concoct runs up against a harlot, religion, sitting in authority over the earth's kingdoms. Religion is hard to remove from society. The mark of the beast helps those 10 rulers, not the harlot. The harlot eventually looses her religious grasp, and after all have the mark of the beast, religion is finally dead. Except it takes all 42 months, and then God pouring out the 7 vials to complete this freedom from religion. That is why the two parenthetical chapters 17 and 18 explain how the vials bring a close to this ungodly mess. But only one battle at Megiddo brings all of earth to an end with the death of the rest of humanity in the valley of decision. Joel 3.

You can argue that these Scriptures cannot go together as your opinion against mine.

 

[Taken]

Yes, think!!

Does scripture teach that raptured believers will be returning with Christ from heaven? Absolutely not. It teaches that believers will be coming with Him just before the rapture occurs.

1 Thes 4:
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Do you believe Forever the Lord and those in Christ shall remain in the clouds, when the Son of Man returns to earth?....or as you say returning with Christ?


What Version of Scripture do you Use?
See a difference in the meaning of the two translations?

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

1 Thes 4: (KJV)
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

I'm sure you agree that this verse relates to the time of the rapture. It tells us that Jesus will be bringing with Him at that time "those who have fallen asleep in him"? Who are they? John references them in Revelation 6:9-11. They are the souls of the dead in Christ.

No, they are the souls, that died IN BELIEF IN Jesus, (is the Christ, the Son of the Living God), but were NOT CONVERTED “IN” Christ.

Do you believe.......“IN Jesus”, is the same as “IN Christ”?

 

[Marty fox]

Because they are gathered at Megiddo for the battle of Armageddon. Armageddon is not fought at nor over Jerusalem.

An earthquake changes Jerusalem, not a battle. Jerusalem is not destroyed by the kings of the earth.

No you pointed out verses declaring your opinion. If you compare Scripture with Scripture there is only one Armageddon battle, and it is won by Jesus in chapter 19. Did you look up the Greek words for this term Armageddon? Or do you think it is just a battle term to make interesting movies around? It is a specific location. And not Jerusalem. And your battle in Revelation 17:16-18 is not a battle.

"As for the ten horns that you saw and the beast, they will hate the whore, bring her to ruin, leave her naked, eat her flesh and consume her with fire. For God put it in their hearts to do what will fulfill his purpose, that is, to be of one mind and give their kingdom to the beast until God’s words have accomplished their intent. And the woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

That is your opinion. My opinion is that they ate her flesh and did so by cooking her with fire. Is that symbolic of a battle? That is not warfare, that is a struggle over dominance. As I pointed out the woman represented religion, and the beast human government. The same symbolism in Revelation 13. The beast, human government produces a false prophet figure head. This FP is the herald of Satan. Satan is the land beast with lamb horns but speaking as a dragon. But this Babylonian Kingdom they concoct runs up against a harlot, religion, sitting in authority over the earth's kingdoms. Religion is hard to remove from society. The mark of the beast helps those 10 rulers, not the harlot. The harlot eventually looses her religious grasp, and after all have the mark of the beast, religion is finally dead. Except it takes all 42 months, and then God pouring out the 7 vials to complete this freedom from religion. That is why the two parenthetical chapters 17 and 18 explain how the vials bring a close to this ungodly mess. But only one battle at Megiddo brings all of earth to an end with the death of the rest of humanity in the valley of decision. Joel 3.

You can argue that these Scriptures cannot go together as your opinion against mine.

Lets focus on one thing at a time. You said that I didn’t interpret scripture with scripture and that is exactly what I did so here it is again.

Rev 16
16 Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

17 The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, “It is done!” 18 Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. 19 The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath. 20 Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found. 21 From the sky huge hailstones, each weighing about a hundred pounds, fell on people. And they cursed God on account of the plague of hail, because the plague was so terrible.

Babylon the great is destroyed at the battle at Armageddon she is called a city and she is destroyed as rev 17 shows by the beast and the 10 kings. Jesus isn’t mentioned here but scripture shows us that God uses the beast and 10 kings to do it.

Revelation 17
16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled

Revelation 19
19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf.With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh
After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting:

So once again a different battle with different combatants and a different outcome.

Revelation 16 is the destruction of Babylon the great not the beast and revelation 17 shows us that the beast and 10 kings do it. Revelation 19 is the defeat of the beast and the false prophet by Jesus and everyone dies but not everyone dies in revelation 16.

Now unlike what you accused me of I used scripture to interpret scripture.

Now here more proof that they are not the same battle

Revelation 19
“Hallelujah!
Salvation and glory and power belong to our God,
2 for true and just are his judgments.
He has condemned the great prostitute
who corrupted the earth by her adulteries.
He has avenged on her the blood of his servants.”

3 And again they shouted:

“Hallelujah!
The smoke from her goes up for ever and ever.”

The beginning of Revelation 19 clearly shows that Babylon the great is destroyed before the battle at the end of revelation 19.

Here’s another question do you believe that no one knows when the second coming is?

 

[ewq1938]

I believe that Babylon the great city is Jerusalem and scripture backs it up.

There is no scriptural support for that. Babylon is described as a port city, Jerusalem is not.

 

[Marty fox]

There is no scriptural support for that. Babylon is described as a port city, Jerusalem is not.

Scripture does back it

Below are 10 points from the bible that show us that first century Jerusalem is the Babylon the great of the book of Revelation.

1) Ezekiel 16 and Revelation 18

If you read Ezekiel chapter 16 you will see that God mentions that Jerusalem prostituted herself to the nations. See how it resembles Revelation chapter 18 as God judges that great prostitute who the kings of the earth commit adultery with. There are many similarities between Ezekiel 16 and Revelation 18.

2) The woman in the wilderness.

In Revelation 12:6 & 12:14 the woman Israel is taken into the wilderness for protection for a set time. We then find a women in the wilderness in Revelation 17:3 sitting on a beast as John is taken into the wilderness to see her. This woman is called the great prostitute. The name on her forehead is

Babylon the great
the mother of prostitutes
and of the abominations of the earth.

If this wasn’t the same woman in Revelation 12 then what happened to the woman in Revelation 12 after the set time?

3) The great city

Babylon the great is called the great city in Revelation 17:18 and Revelation 18:21. Not a great city but the great city. A great city could be one of many cities but the great city could only be one city. Revelation 11:8 says that the great city is the city where our lord was crucified. Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem.

4) 1 Peter 5:13 states she who is in Babylon greets you.

This shows that the saints knew who Babylon was at that time. It has been said that the she in Babylon was the church in Jerusalem where it is believed that Peter lived at that time.

5) The woman dressed in scarlet and gold.

In Revelation 17:4 the woman is dressed in scarlet, gold and precious stones. Jeremiah 4:30 also says that Jerusalem is dressed in scarlet jewels and gold.

6) Your lovers will despise and kill you.

Both Jerusalem in Jeremiah 4:30-31 and Babylon the great in Revelation 17 are killed by her lovers.

Some people believe that Babylon the great will be the city that a future antichrist
known as the beast will rule from. In Revelation 17:16-17 it says that the beast and
the 10 horns will hate the prostitute and bring her to ruin because God had put it into
their hearts to accomplish his purpose. Why would the beast destroy the city or
empire that he rules from? Rome who I believe to be the beast did destroy Jerusalem.

In 70AD Rome did destroy Jerusalem for Gods purpose.

7) The nations will mourn

Jeremiah 4:28 says the earth will mourn at the destruction of Jerusalem. Revelation 18:9,11,15 and 19 all say that the kings, merchants and all who work on the seas will mourn at the destruction of Babylon the great.

8) The cup of Gods wrath

Both Jerusalem and Babylon the great drink the cup of Gods wrath. Isaiah 51:17 & Revelation 16:19

9) A queen and a widow.

In Revelation 18:7 Babylon the great says I sit as queen I will never be a widow. n Jerusalem in Lamentations 1:1-2 is described as a queen who is now a widow. Both Babylon the great and Jerusalem’s friends betray and destroy them.

10) All who have been killed on the earth. This is the most important point.

Revelation 18:20
20 “Rejoice over her, you heavens!
Rejoice, you people of God!
Rejoice, apostles and prophets!
For God has judged her
with the judgment she imposed on you.”

Revelation 18:24
24 In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people,
of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

Revelation 18:20 says that Babylon the great killed both the saints and the prophets. Revelation 18:24 says Babylon the great is responsible for all of the blood of the saints and prophets and all that have been killed on the earth.

Only Israel is responsible for killing both the prophets and the saints.

Now read what Jesus said in Matthew 23:35 as he was prophesying about the destruction of Jerusalem

35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

Jesus was saying that Jerusalem just like Babylon the great is responsible for and will be judged of all the blood that has been shed on the earth. They must be one and the same. This is prophecy fulfilled.

 

[ewq1938]

Babylon is described as a port city, Jerusalem is not. No one is saying Jerusalem is innocent or perfect but Babylon is not Jerusalem.

Scripture does back it

Below are 10 points from the bible that show us that first century Jerusalem is the Babylon the great of the book of Revelation.

1) Ezekiel 16 and Revelation 18

If you read Ezekiel chapter 16 you will see that God mentions that Jerusalem prostituted herself to the nations. See how it resembles Revelation chapter 18 as God judges that great prostitute who the kings of the earth commit adultery with. There are many similarities between Ezekiel 16 and Revelation 18.

2) The woman in the wilderness.

In Revelation 12:6 & 12:14 the woman Israel is taken into the wilderness for protection for a set time. We then find a women in the wilderness in Revelation 17:3 sitting on a beast as John is taken into the wilderness to see her. This woman is called the great prostitute. The name on her forehead is

Babylon the great
the mother of prostitutes
and of the abominations of the earth.

If this wasn’t the same woman in Revelation 12 then what happened to the woman in Revelation 12 after the set time?

3) The great city

Babylon the great is called the great city in Revelation 17:18 and Revelation 18:21. Not a great city but the great city. A great city could be one of many cities but the great city could only be one city. Revelation 11:8 says that the great city is the city where our lord was crucified. Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem.

4) 1 Peter 5:13 states she who is in Babylon greets you.

This shows that the saints knew who Babylon was at that time. It has been said that the she in Babylon was the church in Jerusalem where it is believed that Peter lived at that time.

5) The woman dressed in scarlet and gold.

In Revelation 17:4 the woman is dressed in scarlet, gold and precious stones. Jeremiah 4:30 also says that Jerusalem is dressed in scarlet jewels and gold.

6) Your lovers will despise and kill you.

Both Jerusalem in Jeremiah 4:30-31 and Babylon the great in Revelation 17 are killed by her lovers.

Some people believe that Babylon the great will be the city that a future antichrist
known as the beast will rule from. In Revelation 17:16-17 it says that the beast and
the 10 horns will hate the prostitute and bring her to ruin because God had put it into
their hearts to accomplish his purpose. Why would the beast destroy the city or
empire that he rules from? Rome who I believe to be the beast did destroy Jerusalem.

In 70AD Rome did destroy Jerusalem for Gods purpose.

7) The nations will mourn

Jeremiah 4:28 says the earth will mourn at the destruction of Jerusalem. Revelation 18:9,11,15 and 19 all say that the kings, merchants and all who work on the seas will mourn at the destruction of Babylon the great.

8) The cup of Gods wrath

Both Jerusalem and Babylon the great drink the cup of Gods wrath. Isaiah 51:17 & Revelation 16:19

9) A queen and a widow.

In Revelation 18:7 Babylon the great says I sit as queen I will never be a widow. n Jerusalem in Lamentations 1:1-2 is described as a queen who is now a widow. Both Babylon the great and Jerusalem’s friends betray and destroy them.

10) All who have been killed on the earth. This is the most important point.

Revelation 18:20
20 “Rejoice over her, you heavens!
Rejoice, you people of God!
Rejoice, apostles and prophets!
For God has judged her
with the judgment she imposed on you.”

Revelation 18:24
24 In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people,
of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

Revelation 18:20 says that Babylon the great killed both the saints and the prophets. Revelation 18:24 says Babylon the great is responsible for all of the blood of the saints and prophets and all that have been killed on the earth.

Only Israel is responsible for killing both the prophets and the saints.

Now read what Jesus said in Matthew 23:35 as he was prophesying about the destruction of Jerusalem

35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

Jesus was saying that Jerusalem just like Babylon the great is responsible for and will be judged of all the blood that has been shed on the earth. They must be one and the same. This is prophecy fulfilled.

 

[Marty fox]

Babylon is described as a port city, Jerusalem is not. No one is saying Jerusalem is innocent or perfect but Babylon is not Jerusalem.

What verse exactly are you talking about?

The point is that Jerusalem was a major trading city we’re goods were brought in from ports to trade and sell. But you just disregarded 10 biblical references that tie Babylon the great city directly to Jerusalem isn’t that more important and has more authority? Shouldn’t we let scripture interpret scripture?

 

[ewq1938]

What verse exactly are you talking about?

All of Rev 18

But you just disregarded 10 biblical references

No, I reminded you of what I had posted, which YOU ignored or disregarded. Once we finish with that, then I can comment on the things you posted.

 

[Marty fox]

All of Rev 18




No, I reminded you of what I had posted, which YOU ignored or disregarded. Once we finish with that, then I can comment on the things you posted.

Not one verse in revelation chapter 18 states that Jerusalem was a port city or even describes it as one it only says that merchants and sea captains became rich from her. All that is saying is that it was a large trading city like Jerusalem was and like I said.

Now on the other hand I posted 10 biblical references that tie Babylon the great city to Jerusalem which is morning biblical authoritative

 

[ewq1938]

Not one verse in revelation chapter 18 states that Jerusalem was a port city or even describes it as one it only says that merchants and sea captains became rich from her. All that is saying is that it was a large trading city like Jerusalem was and like I said.

The context is that ships traded with Babylon making her a port city near open water. Jerusalem is land locked and is never described in such a way. Jerusalem is also called the Holy city. Babylon could never be called holy, ever.

 

[Marty fox]

The context is that ships traded with Babylon making her a port city near open water. Jerusalem is land locked and is never described in such a way. Jerusalem is also called the Holy city. Babylon could never be called holy, ever.

No the context is that sea merchants traded with her and yes that happened.

The point is that Jerusalem was the holy city until she prostituted herself, God even call her a prostitute and had her destroyed. She became Babylon after she became a hore like when she called Cesar her king and then rejected and killed her God and messiah.

I posted ten biblical references to tie Babylon to Jerusalem that isn’t a coincidence.

 

[ewq1938]

No the context is that sea merchants traded with her and yes that happened.

The point is that Jerusalem was the holy city until she prostituted herself, God even call her a prostitute and had her destroyed.

Yet God also calls her Holy in the end times during the GT. It is a fact Babylon was never called Holy. That alone proves they are not one and the same.

She became Babylon after she became a hore like when she called Cesar her king and then rejected and killed her God and messiah.

No city can just "become" Babylon. Babylon is Babylon from it's beginnings, and was never called Holy like Jerusalem, Rev 11.

 

[No Pre-TB]

No city can just "become" Babylon. Babylon is Babylon from its beginnings, and was never called Holy like Jerusalem, Rev 11.

With that same logic, no city can ever be called Sodom. Sodom is Sodom from its beginnings. Oh, except: Isaiah 1:10

10Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.