Gospel Believer
Well-Known Member
Neither of those two verses say one must believe Jesus is God to be saved.
If one can * not* say with their mouth that “ Jesus is Lord” they are “ none of His” so I will leave it to you to figure it out....
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Neither of those two verses say one must believe Jesus is God to be saved.
I'll let Scripture spell that thought out for us ... Romans 10:9-10 CEV 9 So you will be saved, if you honestly say, “Jesus is Lord,” and if you believe with all your heart that God raised him from death. 10 God will accept you and save you, if you truly believe this and tell it to others.If one can * not* say with their mouth that “ Jesus is Lord” they are “ none of His” so I will leave it to you to figure it out....
Amen, Precious brother In Christ! Overwhelming (500 Passages) and increasing (now 556), with More Diligent study!In any case, the Lord Jesus was not made God; He - Scripturally - is God, with overwhelming proof in the Word.
LOL Just one passage that explicitly says Jesus is God would do. Should be easy with 556 at your finger tips.Amen, Precious brother In Christ! Overwhelming (500 Passages) and increasing (now 556), with More Diligent study!
A little short of ‘Jesus is God.’ The speaker of these words said a few verses earlier, at verse 9 that he is not God. (If not, it is at least ambiguous and not definite)12 “Behold, I (Jesus) am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to the merit of his deeds (earthly works, faithfulness). 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End [the Eternal One].”
Amen!8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega [the Beginning and the End],” says the Lord God, “Who is [existing forever] and Who was [continually existing in the past] and Who is to come, the Almighty [the Omnipotent, the Ruler of all].”
If one can * not* say with their mouth that “ Jesus is Lord” they are “ none of His” so I will leave it to you to figure it out....
I'll let Scripture spell that thought out for us ... Romans 10:9-10 CEV 9 So you will be saved, if you honestly say, “Jesus is Lord,” and if you believe with all your heart that God raised him from death. 10 God will accept you and save you, if you truly believe this and tell it to others.
See that? God - in his unitarian nature - raised Jesus from the dead. And, not Jesus, but God - in his unitarian nature will save us. See that? That's the other part of the Scripture you referenced. In the opinion of non-trinitarians, it is just as important as the first part.
Agree: The LORD Jesus Christ Is The LORD God Almighty! is no problem with:If I say "The preacher is the man" I use the definite article before both preacher and man, and I thereby identify the preacher with some quite definite individual man whom I have in mind. But if I say "The preacher is man" I have omitted the definite article before man, and what I mean is that the preacher must be classified as a man, he is in the sphere of manhood, he is a human being.
Succinct and undeniable analysis.Although context is the final arbiter, it's almost always the case in the New Testament that when "God" refers to the Father, the definite article appears in the Greek text (this article can be seen only in the Greek text, it's never translated into English). Translators are normally very sensitive to this (see John 10:33). The difference between theos with and without the article occurs in John 1:1. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the "theos" and the Word was "theos." Since the definite article is missing from the second occurrence of "theos" (God) the usual meaning would be "god" or "divine."
Then, there is the willfully ignorant who have no problem altering the word of God to falsely support their doctrine.Agree: The LORD Jesus Christ Is The LORD God Almighty!
With all the definitions and ways logos can be translated, how can we decide which meaning of logos to choose for any one verse? How can it be determined what the logos in John 1:1 is? Any occurrence of logos has to be carefully studied in its context in order to get the proper meaning. We assert that the logos in John 1:1 cannot be Jesus. Please notice that "Jesus Christ" is not a lexical definition of logos. The verse does not say "In the beginning was Jesus." The "Word" is not synonymous with Jesus, or even the "Messiah." The word logos in John 1:1 refers to God's creative self-expression... His reason, purpose and plans, especially as they are brought into action. It refers to God's self-expression or communication of Himself. This has come to pass through His creation and especially the heavens. It has come through the spoken word of the prophets and through Scripture. Most notably it has come into being through His Son.
The renowned Trinitarian scholar, John Lightfoot, writes...
The word logos then, denoting both: "reason" and "speech," was a philosophical term adopted by Alexandrian Judaism before St. Paul wrote, to express the manifestation of the Unseen God in the creation and government of the World. It included all modes by which God makes Himself known to man. As His reason, it denoted His purpose or design; as His speech, it implied His revelation. Christian teachers, when they adopted this term, exalted and fixed its meaning by attaching to it two precise and definite ideas: (1) "The Word is a Divine Person," (2) "The Word became incarnate in Jesus Christ." It is obvious that these two propositions must have altered materially the significance of all the subordinate terms connected with the idea of the logos.
It is important to note that it was "Christian teachers" who attached the idea of a "divine person" to the word logos. It's certainly true that when the word logos came to be understood as being Jesus Christ, the understanding of John 1:1 was altered substantially. Lightfoot correctly understands that the early meaning of logos concerned reason and speech, not "Jesus Christ." Morton develops the concept of logos as "reason" and writes:
There is no word in English answering to the Greek word logos, as used here [in John 1:1]. It was employed to denote a mode of conception concerning the Deity, familiar at the time when St. John wrote and intimately blended with the philosophy of his age, but long since obsolete, and so foreign from our habits of thinking that it is not easy for us to conform our minds to its apprehension. The Greek word logos, in one of its primary senses, answered nearly to our word Reason. The logos of God was regarded, not in its strictest sense, as merely the Reason of God; but, under certain aspects, as the Wisdom, the Mind, the Intellect of God.
Norton postulates that perhaps "the power of God" would be a good translation for logos. Buzzard sets forth "plan," "purpose" or "promise" as three acceptable translations. Broughton and Southgate say "thoughts, plan or purpose of God, particularly in action." Many scholars identify logos with God's wisdom and reason.
If one can * not* say with their mouth that “ Jesus is Lord” they are “ none of His” so I will leave it to you to figure it out....
Of course you are absolutely right, Kermos.Hello Gospel Believer,
@Peterlag does not believe that Jesus is I AM.
All people, such as you Peterlag, that deny the Spiritually true bond between the Word of God "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and "I AM Who I AM" (Exodus 3:14) passages effectively deny Jesus Christ thus all such people are under the wrath of God for the Word of God says "unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins" (John 8:24).
Hi Grace.Agree: The LORD Jesus Christ Is The LORD God Almighty! is no problem with:
The LORD Jesus Christ Is LORD God Almighty!! Amen.
Now, IF only we could humbly trust Him As Such, we might be forgiven, eh?
Grace, Peace, And JOY!
Dead-on, Jeff.7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes (nations) of the earth will mourn over Him [realizing their sin and guilt, and anticipating the coming wrath]. So it is to be. Amen.
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega [the Beginning and the End],” says the Lord God, “Who is [existing forever] and Who was [continually existing in the past] and Who is to come, the Almighty [the Omnipotent, the Ruler of all].”
9 I, John, your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patient endurance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos, [exiled there] because of [my preaching of] the word of God [regarding eternal salvation] and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit [in special communication with the Holy Spirit and empowered to receive and record the revelation from Jesus Christ] on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet, 11 saying, “Write on a scroll what you see [in this revelation], and send it to the seven churches—to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”
12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And after turning I saw seven golden lampstands; 13 and in the midst of the lampstands I saw someone like the Son of Man, dressed in a robe reaching to His feet, and with a golden sash wrapped around His chest. 14 His head and His hair were white like white wool, [glistening white] like snow; and His [all-seeing] eyes were [flashing] like a flame of fire [piercing into my being]. 15 His feet were like burnished [white-hot] bronze, refined in a furnace, and His voice was [powerful] like the sound of many waters. 16 In His right hand He held seven stars, and from His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword [of judgment]; and His face [reflecting His majesty and the [r]Shekinah glory] was like the sun shining in [all] its power [at midday].
17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet as though dead. And He placed His right hand on me and said, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last [absolute Deity, the Son of God], 18 and the Ever-living One [living in and beyond all time and space]. I died, but see, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of [absolute control and victory over] death and of Hades (the realm of the dead).
Who do you say I am guys.? He is the one to come the almighty v8
15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed), the Son of the living God.” 17 Then Jesus answered him, “Blessed [happy, spiritually secure, favored by God] are you, Simon son of Jonah, because flesh and blood (mortal man) did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades (death) will not overpower it [by preventing the resurrection of the Christ].
Rev 22
12 “Behold, I (Jesus) am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to the merit of his deeds (earthly works, faithfulness). 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End [the Eternal One].”
You are correct, farouk.Hi @Gospel Believer In any case, the Lord Jesus was not made God; He - Scripturally - is God, with overwhelming proof in the Word.