What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[GEN2REV]

That's probably true.

It is true.

Did you have a point with it?

Does God care if those He has not given the Spirit, to teach and guide them into all Truth, don't understand it?

Matthew 13:11
“He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.”

Matthew 13:15
“For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.”

 

[Peterlag]

Isn't it interesting that the devils never asked a single man-prophet prior why they had come?

Why do you suppose that is?

Scripture makes clear that the devils don't even know insignificant people, so why were they so well aware of who Christ was?

The devils knew he was the son of God. But they did not know what Jesus was going to accomplished and if they knew they would have never killed him. Do you want the verse on that?

 

[GEN2REV]

The devils knew he was the son of God. But they did not know what Jesus was going to accomplished and if they knew they would have never killed him. Do you want the verse on that?

They didn't kill Him, the Father killed Him.

How was He the son of God, anyway?

What specifically made Him the son of God?

 

[Peterlag]

They didn't kill Him, the Father killed Him.

How was He the son of God, anyway?

What specifically made Him the son of God?

My Bible says they (the devils) killed him. I do hope you know who the prices of this world are...

1 Corinthians 2:8
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

 

[GEN2REV]

My Bible says they (the devils) killed him. I do hope you know who the prices of this world are...

1 Corinthians 2:8
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

I do hope you know that it was human hands that physically beat Him, whipped Him, nailed Him to the Cross and erected the Cross on Golgotha.

And just as it was demons (princes of this world) who were behind those humans' actions, it was God Almighty, the Father, who allowed the event to take place for the sake of His Divine plan of redemption.

The Father didn't just make the best of a bad situation when Christ was arrested, abused and crucified. On the contrary, it was His plan for it all to happen.

Tell me, what did Jesus pray in the Garden of Gethsemane?

The words are crucial. Can you tell me?

 

[Peterlag]

I do hope you know that it was human hands that physically beat Him, whipped Him, nailed Him to the Cross and erected the Cross on Golgotha.

And just as it was demons (princes of this world) who were behind those humans' actions, it was God Almighty, the Father, who allowed the event to take place for the sake of His Divine plan of redemption.

The Father didn't just make the best of a bad situation when Christ was arrested, abused and crucified. On the contrary, it was His plan for it all to happen.

Tell me, what did Jesus pray in the Garden of Gethsemane?

The words are crucial. Can you tell me?

List them if you would enjoy doing so and we can talk about them.

 

[GEN2REV]

List them if you would enjoy doing so and we can talk about them.

Not only does He repeat, in both prayers, that His Father's will be done concerning what was about to happen to Him, but He mentions 'the Cup'. That is very important.

He asks for the Cup to be taken from Him.

That Cup is His Father's Cup. It is the Cup of Indignation mentioned many times in the OT.

It is the Cup of the Wrath of God Almighty upon the sinful world.

It is the punishment that was due all of us; that was literally due all of those who had lived up to that point for their sin against the Father and all the righteous Prophets, etc.

Jesus is making clear there that the event of His arrest, and all that followed, was the Work of His Father. Not just His will to allow it, but He actually orchestrated it.

Can we not agree on something so fundamental that is made plain in the Scripture?

 

[Wrangler]

And just as it was demons (princes of this world) who were behind those humans' actions, it was God Almighty, the Father, who allowed the event to take place for the sake of His Divine plan of redemption.

He repeat, in both prayers, that His Father's will be done

It must take a lot of mental discipline to write such things AND claim Jesus is God.

Is it truly your position that God almighty submits to the will of another?

 

[GEN2REV]

It must take a lot of mental discipline to write such things AND claim Jesus is God.

Is it truly your position that God almighty submits to the will of another?

God Almighty came into the flesh to show us how to be humble, how to be a True Servant, how to be obedient and how to honor the Father.

Having said that, He did not submit to the will of another.

 

[Peterlag]

Not only does He repeat, in both prayers, that His Father's will be done concerning what was about to happen to Him, but He mentions 'the Cup'. That is very important.

He asks for the Cup to be taken from Him.

That Cup is His Father's Cup. It is the Cup of Indignation mentioned many times in the OT.

It is the Cup of the Wrath of God Almighty upon the sinful world.

It is the punishment that was due all of us; that was literally due all of those who had lived up to that point for their sin against the Father and all the righteous Prophets, etc.

Jesus is making clear there that the event of His arrest, and all that followed, was the Work of His Father. Not just His will to allow it, but He actually orchestrated it.

Can we not agree on something so fundamental that is made plain in the Scripture?

Yes. I can agree with the above.

 

[jeffweeder]

Do you have a verse to go along with that? Perhaps something like God became a man so he could die

No ordinary man born of Women couldn't be found.
His own arm accomplished salvation for us.

Is 59:16
He saw that there was no man,
And was amazed that there was no one to intercede [on behalf of truth and right];
Therefore His own arm brought salvation to Him,
And His own righteousness sustained Him.
17
For He [the Lord] put on righteousness like a coat of armor,
And salvation like a helmet on His head;
He put on garments of vengeance for clothing
And covered Himself with zeal [and great love for His people] as a cloak.

Ps 68
19
Blessed be the Lord, who bears our burden day by day,
The God who is our salvation! Selah.
20
God is to us a God of acts of salvation;
And to God the Lord belong escapes from death [setting us free].

 

[Wrangler]

God Almighty came into the flesh to show us how to be humble, how to be a True Servant

You are distorting the word of God, which did not say Jesus was a form of but is a servant of God. Language usage proves this means that he is not God.

 

[Peterlag]

It's imperative that the serious student of the Bible come to a basic understanding of logos, which is translated as "Word" in John 1:1. Most Trinitarians believe that the word logos refers directly to Jesus Christ, so in most versions of John logos is capitalized and translated "Word" (some versions even write "Christ" in John 1:1 - TLB & NLV). However, a study of the Greek word logos shows that it occurs more than 300 times in the New Testament, and in both the NIV and the KJV it is capitalized only 7 times (and even those versions disagree on exactly when to capitalize it). When a word that occurs more than 300 times is capitalized fewer than 10 times, it's obvious that when to capitalize and when not to capitalize is a translator's decision based on their particular understanding of Scripture.

As it's used throughout Scripture, logos has a very wide range of meanings along two basic lines of thought. One is the mind and products of the mind like "reason" (thus "logic" is related to logos) and the other is the expression of that reason as a "word" "saying" "command" etc. The Bible itself demonstrates the wide range of meaning logos has, and some of the ways it's translated in Scripture are: account, appearance, book, command, conversation, eloquence, flattery, grievance, heard, instruction, matter, message, ministry, news, proposal, question, reason, reasonable, reply, report, rule, rumor, said, say, saying, sentence, speaker, speaking, speech, stories, story, talk, talking, teaching, testimony, thing, things, this, truths, what, why, word and words.

Any good Greek lexicon will also show this wide range of meaning (the words underlined are translated from logos):

Romans 15:18 ...what I have said and done
Matthew 21:24 ...I will also ask you one question
1 Timothy 5:17 ...especially those whose work is preaching and teaching
Galatians 5:14 The entire law is summed up in a single command
John 4:37 Thus the saying, One sows, and another reaps
Luke 4:32 his message had authority
John 6:60 ...This is a hard teaching
Acts 8:21 You have no part or share in this ministry
Matthew 15:6 ...you nullify the word of God
Hebrews 13:7 ...leaders, who spoke the word of God
Matthew 12:36 ...men will have to give account on the day of judgment
Matthew 18:23 ...a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants
Philippians 4:15 ...the matter of giving and receiving

 

[Gospel Believer]

This is in response to peter lag.....I can’t get my quote or replay thingies to work correctly....


I said that if you do not declare Jesus as Lord , one is damned.....he wanted some verse to verify this....
Try these.....



1 Cor 12:13 “ no one can say “ Jesus is Lord” Without the Spirit Of Christ in them”



Romans 8:9 ....”if you do not have the Spirit Of Christ, you are none of His”

 

[farouk]

This is in response to peter lag.....I can’t get my quote or replay thingies to work correctly....


I said that if you do not declare Jesus as Lord , one is damned.....he wanted some verse to verify this....
Try these.....



1 Cor 12:13 “ no one can say “ Jesus is Lord” Without the Spirit Of Christ in them”



Romans 8:9 ....”if you do not have the Spirit Of Christ, you are none of His”

Hi @Gospel Believer In any case, the Lord Jesus was not made God; He - Scripturally - is God, with overwhelming proof in the Word.

 

[Gospel Believer]

Hi @Gospel Believer In any case, the Lord Jesus was not made God; He - Scripturally - is God, with overwhelming proof in the Word.

Lol.....you are preaching to the choir...

 

[Kermos]

God walked with Enoch, so Enoch must be God too according to your logic, but you are in error . Jesus is the Son of God .

Jesus is God walking, yet no scripture states Enoch is God, so you are very confused, in fact, you are in the sin of unbelief for demoting Jesus in your heart.

Jesus being God is consistent Apostolic testimony.

The Apostle Paul calls Jesus "the great God" with "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of the great God and Savior of us, Christ Jesus" (Titus 2:13).

The Apostle Peter calls Jesus "the God" with "Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours by the righteousness of the God of us and Savior Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 1:1).

The Apostle Thomas calls Jesus "my God" wirh "My Lord and my God" (John 20:28).

The Apostle Matthew attests that Jesus is "God with us" Immanuel (Matthew 1:23) thus Jesus is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us the children of God (Revelation 1:8).

The Apostle John calls Jesus "the Word" and "God" with "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1).

The Apostle Jesus (Hebrews 3:1) calls Jesus the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) by saying "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58) and "I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matthew 28:20) thus declaring Himself eternal, and the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) is exclusively eternal; therefore, Jesus declares Himself the One True God, YHWH!

NO SCRIPTURE STATES THAT JESUS WAS CREATED.

Jesus is YHWH God according to consistent Apostolic testimony.

 

[Peterlag]

With all the definitions and ways logos can be translated, how can we decide which meaning of logos to choose for any one verse? How can it be determined what the logos in John 1:1 is? Any occurrence of logos has to be carefully studied in its context in order to get the proper meaning. We assert that the logos in John 1:1 cannot be Jesus. Please notice that "Jesus Christ" is not a lexical definition of logos. The verse does not say "In the beginning was Jesus." The "Word" is not synonymous with Jesus, or even the "Messiah." The word logos in John 1:1 refers to God's creative self-expression... His reason, purpose and plans, especially as they are brought into action. It refers to God's self-expression or communication of Himself. This has come to pass through His creation and especially the heavens. It has come through the spoken word of the prophets and through Scripture. Most notably it has come into being through His Son.

The renowned Trinitarian scholar, John Lightfoot, writes...

The word logos then, denoting both: "reason" and "speech," was a philosophical term adopted by Alexandrian Judaism before St. Paul wrote, to express the manifestation of the Unseen God in the creation and government of the World. It included all modes by which God makes Himself known to man. As His reason, it denoted His purpose or design; as His speech, it implied His revelation. Christian teachers, when they adopted this term, exalted and fixed its meaning by attaching to it two precise and definite ideas: (1) "The Word is a Divine Person," (2) "The Word became incarnate in Jesus Christ." It is obvious that these two propositions must have altered materially the significance of all the subordinate terms connected with the idea of the logos.

It is important to note that it was "Christian teachers" who attached the idea of a "divine person" to the word logos. It's certainly true that when the word logos came to be understood as being Jesus Christ, the understanding of John 1:1 was altered substantially. Lightfoot correctly understands that the early meaning of logos concerned reason and speech, not "Jesus Christ." Morton develops the concept of logos as "reason" and writes:

There is no word in English answering to the Greek word logos, as used here [in John 1:1]. It was employed to denote a mode of conception concerning the Deity, familiar at the time when St. John wrote and intimately blended with the philosophy of his age, but long since obsolete, and so foreign from our habits of thinking that it is not easy for us to conform our minds to its apprehension. The Greek word logos, in one of its primary senses, answered nearly to our word Reason. The logos of God was regarded, not in its strictest sense, as merely the Reason of God; but, under certain aspects, as the Wisdom, the Mind, the Intellect of God.

Norton postulates that perhaps "the power of God" would be a good translation for logos. Buzzard sets forth "plan," "purpose" or "promise" as three acceptable translations. Broughton and Southgate say "thoughts, plan or purpose of God, particularly in action." Many scholars identify logos with God's wisdom and reason.

 

[Peterlag]

This is in response to peter lag.....I can’t get my quote or replay thingies to work correctly....


I said that if you do not declare Jesus as Lord , one is damned.....he wanted some verse to verify this....
Try these.....



1 Cor 12:13 “ no one can say “ Jesus is Lord” Without the Spirit Of Christ in them”



Romans 8:9 ....”if you do not have the Spirit Of Christ, you are none of His”

Neither of those two verses say one must believe Jesus is God to be saved.

 

[ElieG12]

If we put John's inspired words in context, we can know what/who is he talking about. He mentioned in Rev. 19:11-16 the same person in John 1:1-3, and you know what? It is clearly Jesus whom he is referring to by that title: the Logos of God.

Did you know that the Gospel and letters of John and the book of Revelation were written almost at the same time? Some scholars estimate the time of the gospel writing to be after the writing of his Revelation visions. Actually, in 1 John 1:1,2 he is speaking in similar terms about the same person.