Nancy
Well-Known Member
Sorry, okay, so you know a "few priests." Never mentioned ANY priest coming to your home...just that you "knew" some.
What distinguishes a "Protestant?"
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Sorry, okay, so you know a "few priests." Never mentioned ANY priest coming to your home...just that you "knew" some.
Protestant ~
A person WHO...
IS...A BEGINNER...Hearing, Learning, Reading, Sometimes Believing, Sometimes Not Believing, Wondering, Unsure, about the Truthfulness of the Word of God.
IS...A Continuing Hearer, Learner, Reader, Believing Some things, Wondering About other things, still unsure about the Truthfulness of the Word of God.
IS...A Continuing Hearer, Learner, Reader, Beginning to NOTICE, "experiences" of Others, WHO BELIEVE, without Doubt.
AND..
Beginning to "notice /experience" "Personally", CHANGES, of their own thoughts and feelings TOWARD the Word of God.
IS...A Continuing Hearer, Learner, Reader...
WHOSE, thoughts and feelings, are INCREASINGLY manifested, to them BECOMING SURE, of their Belief in the Word of God IS TRUE.
IS...A Continuing Hearer, Learner, Reader...
Who THEN "feels" Compelled...
To call on the Lord, and Confess Their Belief IN God, IN His word Jesus...
AND Ask Him for Forgiveness FOR NOT having Believed.
IS...A Continuing Hearer, Learner, Reader...
WHO "accepts" the Lord Gods Word, as Truth,
Has been Forgiven, Has been Converted,
"IS THEN", prepared TO Have a ONE on ONE, relationship with:
The Lord God
Others Who are Converted.
IS...a Converted Person WHO...Also THEN
Has ACCESS, ABILITY, AUTHORITY TO ASK, thee Lord God "His" "Understanding and Meaning" of His own WORD.
Inanutshell...
A person of his own accord who hears, learns, and concludes on his own TO CONTINUE hearing and learning....OR NOT.
The phases ... beginning, not sure, sometimes believing, sometimes not, the wondering....IS a beginning.
The "persons" CHOOSING to Continue...IS NOT, the extent of what IS HAPPENING...
NOT FORGETTING....Gods HAND IN THE MATTER...!!
At ANY Phase, (BEFORE CONVERSION) ANY Person, can CHOOSE to continue OR NOT.
At ALL PHASES....God IS "GIVING" "THAT PERSON"...
MEASURES OF FAITH!!
It is the "CONTINUING" (of the man to hear and learn)
whereby GODS ACT, GODS POWER "IS the KEY", of THAT PERSON, To continue to RECEIVE "increased" measures of FAITH....
Preparing THAT MAN, "for a conversion".
That preparation..IS the method of God Calling that Person, so that He also Chooses them.
Still it is the persons CHOICE to answer THAT CALL, and they CALL on the Lord, for repentance, and confession of belief.
Many ARE called, FEW are chosen.
ALSO what a Protestant IS NOT;
"ONE" person, making Claims, Vows, Agreements, "FOR" another person.
Excellent OP.
God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken
A person WHO...
IS...A BEGINNER...Hearing, Learning, Reading, Sometimes Believing, Sometimes Not Believing, Wondering, Unsure, about the Truthfulness of the Word of God.
IS...A Continuing Hearer, Learner, Reader, Believing Some things, Wondering About other things, still unsure about the Truthfulness of the Word of God.
IS...A Continuing Hearer, Learner, Reader, Beginning to NOTICE, "experiences" of Others, WHO BELIEVE, without Doubt.
AND..
Beginning to "notice /experience" "Personally", CHANGES, of their own thoughts and feelings TOWARD the Word of God.
IS...A Continuing Hearer, Learner, Reader...
WHOSE, thoughts and feelings, are INCREASINGLY manifested, to them BECOMING SURE, of their Belief in the Word of God IS TRUE.
IS...A Continuing Hearer, Learner, Reader...
Who THEN "feels" Compelled...
To call on the Lord, and Confess Their Belief IN God, IN His word Jesus...
AND Ask Him for Forgiveness FOR NOT having Believed.
IS...A Continuing Hearer, Learner, Reader...
WHO "accepts" the Lord Gods Word, as Truth,
Has been Forgiven, Has been Converted,
"IS THEN", prepared TO Have a ONE on ONE, relationship with:
The Lord God
Others Who are Converted.
IS...a Converted Person WHO...Also THEN
Has ACCESS, ABILITY, AUTHORITY TO ASK, thee Lord God "His" "Understanding and Meaning" of His own WORD.
Inanutshell...
A person of his own accord who hears, learns, and concludes on his own TO CONTINUE hearing and learning....OR NOT.
The phases ... beginning, not sure, sometimes believing, sometimes not, the wondering....IS a beginning.
The "persons" CHOOSING to Continue...IS NOT, the extent of what IS HAPPENING...
NOT FORGETTING....Gods HAND IN THE MATTER...!!
At ANY Phase, (BEFORE CONVERSION) ANY Person, can CHOOSE to continue OR NOT.
At ALL PHASES....God IS "GIVING" "THAT PERSON"...
MEASURES OF FAITH!!
It is the "CONTINUING" (of the man to hear and learn)
whereby GODS ACT, GODS POWER "IS the KEY", of THAT PERSON, To continue to RECEIVE "increased" measures of FAITH....
Preparing THAT MAN, "for a conversion".
That preparation..IS the method of God Calling that Person, so that He also Chooses them.
Still it is the persons CHOICE to answer THAT CALL, and they CALL on the Lord, for repentance, and confession of belief.
Many ARE called, FEW are chosen.
ALSO what a Protestant IS NOT;
"ONE" person, making Claims, Vows, Agreements, "FOR" another person.
Excellent OP.
God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken
Nancy
Well-Known Member
"CHRISTIAN GROWTH" In a wonderfully put process for what , I think should take place within a race running follower of Christ! Amen!
And...Merry Christmas to you as well!
Good to remember that John's First Epistle speaks of many antichrists in the world.
Yes, this is especially true of the Jews who rejected him saying the Messiah had not arrived in the flesh. But John also mentions one Antichrist in particular.
Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
Some are under the false impression that the mass is simply the Eucharist, the Lord’s Supper, under another name? This is false. The Lord’s Supper celebrates the death of Christ accomplished at Calvary; the mass represents a new sacrifice for sins made every time it is performed.”
The Christ to be thus sacrificed afresh is first ‘created’ from wheat bread and wine by the officiating priest. They are ordinary bread and wine until laid upon the altar, when certain words of consecration, it is claimed, change the bread and wine into the actual flesh and blood of Christ. Then they are bread and wine no longer, though they still have such an appearance. This change is called the transubstantiation— change of substance.”
This in the Scriptures is called an ‘abomination’ in God’s sight, because it disregards, sets at naught, the statement of the Scriptures that Christ dies no more, that by one sacrifice he hath perfected forever all who come unto the Father through him...” (Rom.6: 9) In essence the institution of the mass is the setting up of the Abomination of Desolation.
It is the "growth" period BEFORE Conversion, that people get all in a huffy disagreement about.
The "growth" period is IFFY, and WAVERING, like reading a Contract, BEFORE getting to the "FINE Print". Picking and choosing, hey, this sounds great, I'm in for THAT, then oooh, yikes, Not sure I want to agree with that.
Thus the man WAVERS, "like this", uh, not so sure, "he likes that".
It is during that "wavering", IF a man continues, the Lord Continues, giving the man Faith.
If the man stops "continuing", the Lord stops giving measures of Faith. The man is called having "fallen from Faith"....and that happens, BEFORE, a Conversion.
A man who has Fallen from Faith, WAS receiving "measures" of Faith, as the man was also receiving "measures" of Gods Word.
It is the Falling from Faith...that THEN reveals, the man has Jeopardized his own opportunity TO receive a Conversion...and Receive the Lords OFFERED gift of Salvation.
Thus the arguing...Some saying a man "CAN LOSE Salvation" AFTER having received "Salvation".....
And others saying...
The gift of Salvation IS an Offering to ALL...
Already prepared for ALL....TO RECEIVE.
It is Already theirs to...TO TAKE.
The TAKING, requires ONE to ASK for heartfelt repentance, coupled with a heartfelt VOW of Belief.
The Repentance...is the mans part to do.
The Lords part...is to accept a heartfelt Repentance.
The Confession...is the mans heartfelt part to do. (which is ONLY possible, BECAUSE of the mans Continuing, and the Lords Measures of Faith given that man).
The Lords part....duh, He already knows, if the mans Confession BE TRUE, Because He already Knows, the Measures of Faith He has given that man.
Point being...Anyone can open their mouth and make a Confession, (particularly in front of other "men" witnesses).
Does that mean ALL men making such a Confession, IS TRUE? No.
We are already keenly aware men are deceptive and liars. And even deceptive liars, perform quite well, with an "audience".
God is not fooled. He knows what a man does, and does not do. He knows what measures of enlightenment the man has made an effort to receive, and what measures of Faith He has given the man, to prepare the man for a Conversion.
Once a man IS Converted, there IS NO falling from FAITH...why? Because OF a TRUE Conversion, it is the Lord Gods Power...not the mans mind, or feelings...that KEEPS the man IN FAITH-FULLNESS to thee Lord God Almighty.
There IS no possibility of a Converted man..
Losing Faith.
Losing Salvation.
But in the "phases" of of beginning, continuing, stopping, sporadic, sometimes, sometimes not believing....YES, THAT MAN, can LOSE Faith...and CAN LOSE opportunity to RECEIVE, a Conversion and Salvation.
We do not know the hour our flesh body may die, thus Scripture teaches for every individual, the urgency, to get to getting, hear, learn, read, Become Filled with Faith, and Become "prepared" to Receive, and get on with it and Receive it.
Because ONCE the body is DEAD....it knows nothing. Since it knows nothing...how would it know, God, Gods Word, Gods Offering, Repentance, Confession, Acceptance, Vows, Gods Power to Keep them? They wouldn't.
It SOUNDS GREAT...Gods Love, Being with God, Gods Blessings, Gods Gifts, Comforts, Prosperity, His Giving whatever one asks for......(a cloud of hummm, big house, new car, high paying job, clout, prestige, fame, fortune, blah blah)...
Then the ooooh....uh...many men treated Jesus horribly...spit on Him, beat Him, unjustly accused Him, said He has a devil spirit, stripped him naked in public, mocked Him, Scorned Him, Rejected Him, Hated Him, Nailed Him to a Cross, Speared Him, Killed his Body....
AND?
That's the FINE PRINT...of ACCEPTING the Lords Conversion...Any of those SAME EXACT things that happened to JESUS, may Very well happen to THEM, who chooses to Accept the Lords OFFERING of Salvation through Conversion.
Matt 20:
[22] But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of...
THAT CUP, IS the willingness of the Converted, (forgiven, saved, baptized with the Holy Spirit)...agreeing to the FINE PRINT, to BE "subject to" what IS IN THE CUP.
Men "debate" over...Wine, grape juice, Blood....However...
What is IN THAT CUP, is the World's "INDIGNATION" that will be 'heaped' upon a Converted man, just as it was heaped upon Jesus.
Some men WANT, the "goodies" of a Conversion.....but many don't quite WANT to Commit to the "CUP of INDIGNATION" they have to agree to. (If it were only WiNE in the cup...well, ya sure, why not, yum, yum.)
Jesus said, TO the WILLING, This is His Blood, do that in remembrance of Him.
Jesus appeared AS A MAN, was seen as a man, was called a man. WHAT is the "LIFE" of a man? God says IT IS BLOOD.
Gen 9:
- [4] But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof..
- [5] ...your blood of your lives will I require...
Jesus was asking men to REMEMBER "HIS LIFE, as JESUS, the man".
And there are NO "goodies" WITHOUT the "indignation". Some accept the whole package, (and become Converted) some don't, and will lose out on receiving Salvation that was offered for them to Take.
God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken
A Protestant...
I believe comprehends it is an Individual being born, growing, learning, aging, that is the one responsible for their own choices, (may be called a Republican in that respect, lol) in the world, and regarding thee Lord God Almighty.
God Bless,
Merry Christmas to all,
Taken
I believe comprehends it is an Individual being born, growing, learning, aging, that is the one responsible for their own choices, (may be called a Republican in that respect, lol) in the world, and regarding thee Lord God Almighty.
God Bless,
Merry Christmas to all,
Taken
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Protestant is a historical term that really doesn't apply today.
Non-Catholics are not protesting the Catholic Church now, that idea today actually elevates Catholicism.
The concerns of today are being true Christian, cult or teaching false doctrine.
The Bible says not to have divisions among us. Denominations are divisions.
So I am neither Protestant or Catholic. I a literal Bible Only nondenominational born-again believer.
Yes, there are certain basics one must believe to be a Christian, such as God's Trinity, Christ is God incarnate, salvation only comes through Christ and the Bible is God's word.
But those are about being born again, not denominational labels.
And remember, a lot of cults and false doctrines fall under the label Protestant. Such as Mormonism and Jehovah witnesses.
Non-Catholics are not protesting the Catholic Church now, that idea today actually elevates Catholicism.
The concerns of today are being true Christian, cult or teaching false doctrine.
The Bible says not to have divisions among us. Denominations are divisions.
So I am neither Protestant or Catholic. I a literal Bible Only nondenominational born-again believer.
Yes, there are certain basics one must believe to be a Christian, such as God's Trinity, Christ is God incarnate, salvation only comes through Christ and the Bible is God's word.
But those are about being born again, not denominational labels.
And remember, a lot of cults and false doctrines fall under the label Protestant. Such as Mormonism and Jehovah witnesses.
Somewhat disagree.
The reformation was about, HAVING Known and Agreed with Catholic teaching.
Then having a closer look and deciding to NOT agree with certain things the Catholic church was teaching.
Thus, THAT is about first KNOWING the Catholic Doctrine, and then REJECTING it as their Doctrine, and speaking out AGAINST the Catholic Doctrine.
Today, on a large scale, People do NOT FIRST learn the Catholic Doctrine, then Reject it.
On a large scale, People Learn the Protestant Way, and give no consideration to what the Catholics Do.
The "routine" disagreements between Catholics and Protestants, arise, in situations such as this OPEN forum, where Either a Catholic or Protestant can SPEAK about Scripture and INCLUDE DETAILS...WHICH VARY greatly between Catholics and Protestants...
Then does the average Protestant become aware of WHAT a Catholic believes and WHY, and Rejection of such Doctrine begins...and an explosion of namecalling BY the rejected is revealed.
Sure. But then any man can call another mans Doctrine....false or a cult.
Sure. The divisions may be petty, and insignificant, or what the Bible meant...
Examples....
Must have an alter...or no alter required.
No dancing...or dancing no problem
Church on Saturday...or Church on Sunday
No performing of a marriage of other than one man and one woman...or perform a marriage of one man and multiple women at the same time....or two men, or two women.
The Signifiance of the Lords teaching of Division; is about MEN having Belief IN God and Christ Jesus...ARE of ONE ACCORD...and Divided FROM; Men who HAVE NOT Belief in God and Christ Jesus.
That is the beauty of freewill. Men can call themselves whatever they choose.
And as well, the same applies to the Label of "nondenominational". Again the beauty of freewill.
Glory to God,
Taken
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
I mostly agree. Good historical summary.
Today Catholicism is considered a denomination like any other denomination. So label Protestant doesn't fit anymore.
What the Bible meant on divisions, to me, concerned such things says baptism, gifts of the spirit, powers of church hierarchy and how they are chosen, alcohol and similar.
When it crosses into things like supporting LGBT, that is covered in the seven churches of Revelations, God condemns so I don't think they are still really Christian.
Biblically there is no church structure other than locally. Denominationalism is built on large structure encompassing huge amounts of territory, local churches and such.
I think history shows them and people split between denominations, regardless of what they preach, the church suffers.
I get what you are saying about PROTEST-ant, seemingly what began as a PROTEST, doesn't fit, when a Catholic doctrine is not FIRST believed, then PROTESTED, in rejection.
However, the name "Protestant", "then" as the first knowing, then rejecting....just sort of stuck, as revealing, one IS a believer in God, (the Father), Christ (the Almighty Power), Jesus (the Word)....yet NOT according to the Doctrine and Especially the Teaching of Catholics.
To me, I like Gods to the POINT all encompassing revealing....
"If one is not with me, they are against me".
Matt 12:30
Luke 11:23
I wouldn't say "not Christian".
If ANY Word of God is being preached, and ANY person is following that teaching...
They ARE a Christian. Christians are "followers of Jesus' teachings".
Even in old days, the disciples Followed Jesus' teachings, but not always. They were called Christians for them following Jesus' teachings.
It is the Conversion...that does the REAL DIVIDING...not the following. Granted, the following MIGHT lead to the Conversion, but not always. Men can walk away, before Conversion, and stop following.
Me personally, I find a Great deal of difference between some calling themselves (or an other a Christian)....and someone calling themselves a man Converted IN Christ, or otherwise, A BORN AGAIN Christian. Ie a Converted man WHO continues to Follow Christ's teachings.
Personally, I believe, the whole umpteen "denominations" are based mostly on piddly things (makeup, dancing, long hair, day of worship, eating, clothing, music, adornments, etc. etc. ). Whereas God focuses on BELIEF in Him, BELIEF in His Word, BELIEF in His Power; which some condense into the word TRINITY. If THAT, (not the word Trinity, but the BELIEF,) is not present in "A" churches preaching and teaching...THEN it is NOT fostering the EXPRESS teaching of Gods PRIMARY FOCUS, for men to hear, learn, know, and be prepared to Come to Him, in Repentance and Confession, and receive Conversion.
I think people "switch" (protestant denomination) over the Piddly stuff....Not the primary, BELIEF as mentioned.
I have visited different churches...and could say after one visit, I would never consider going back. Not a problem with the BELIEF in the Father, Son, Holy Spirit....But a huge problem in the atmosphere, of chaotic, running around, hollering, interrupting, ear piercing metal bands, etc., to the other end...of the cleric so soft spoken, you can't hear, or so monotone, he was like a sleeping pill...
I would presume, other people also pick and choose which denomination is their preference based on numerous things as well, as I have mentioned.
Glory to God,
Taken
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
LOL, you should have block me. By nature I am soft spoken and quiet. But in discussing anything Biblical I'm gabby. A learned behavior, by working with Deaf people. You can't miss a stitch, or they get off point.
God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken
I'm sorry Nancy. I didn't mean to make an issue of it. I just didn't want people reading to think that I know A LOT of priests...I know quite a few in fact...but they are not personal friends --- that would be only 3. They don't always agree with each other, BTW.
Protestant ~ Has a Holy Father IN HEAVEN.
A Converted Protestant ~ Has thee Heavenly Holy Fathers SPIRIT within them.
Unlike one who is NOT a Protestant;
Who has men taking turns being their "holy father".
Or
Who has no claim of a holy father, but worships "tangible" things, (cars, people, money, animals, etc.)
Or
Who has no claim of a holy father, but worships
"Mystical" things. (Declared gods, magic powers, etc.)
Glory to God,
Merry Christmas,
Taken
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
I don't believe anyone can be LGBT and Christian.
Having debated it with some, they redefine the word of God to say things it does not say. That the Old Testament does not apply. They claim they were created that way. Some even claim Jesus was gay.
I just believe one has to be so far out of line with what the Bible teaches they just will not repent.
Many of them believe in universal salvation.
Ever listened to a gay preacher or a female one? Did you honestly hear Christ in their message?
There are whole missions built around former gays who became Christian. That is another source of why I reject the idea they cannot be Christian while still LGBT.
Strict adherents to Catholicism follow Catholicism, not the Bible.
As far as following the teachings of Jesus. There are millions that follow the philosophy of what Jesus taught without following Jesus.
Following Jesus teachings is a slippery slope point. How well do they have to follow it to be saved? Doesn't that thinking crossover into works?
Does that mean deathbed confessions save no one because they have had no chance to follow the teachings of Jesus.
I am just saying God judges who is saved. Unless blatantly showing themselves unsaved per the Bible we don't know.
The problem with denominations is membership requires you sign on to their beliefs, uphold their beliefs and reject all other denominations beliefs. It's so bad people do not do identify as being Christian, but denominational affiliation. And do not question.
I attended a Southern Baptist Church once. I pointed out a problem with what the minister said in a classroom. I bounced all the way to the minister who did not say I was wrong but said that's not what their denomination supports. So I could either conform or leave. My wife and I left.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Lol, I shoulda just said you know allot of Catholics and a few priests, lol. I find it interesting that they too do not always agree with one another. We sure know that Protestants disagree on a ton of stuff!
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