What distinguishes a "Protestant?"

[Willie T]

No one is wrong to post any way they want. The foolishness was in me thinking my idea of compiling a list of various things we all thought made a Protestant would work without the thread devolving into the usual exhibitions of preaching.

 

[Nancy]

Yeah, I was pretty sure we wouldn't be able to keep this limited to just simply short, declarative statements of thoughts about what constitutes Protestnatism.

Lol...sorry, I know I put a long one in there BUT...I DID initially keep it short in my first post least, I THINK I did ♥

 

[Enoch111]

.the Mass is like a reenactment of the Last Supper...or kind of a memorial of Christs crucifixion.

The difference between the Mass and the Lord's Supper is like the difference between Night and Day. So you might want to take a close look at the Mass, and the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia will give you a lot of insight. Particularly *the Sacrifice of the Mass*. Catholic priests are re-sacrificing Christ daily, and that is not the Lord's Supper.

 

[Willie T]

The difference between the Mass and the Lord's Supper is like the difference between Night and Day. So you might want to take a close look at the Mass, and the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia will give you a lot of insight. Particularly *the Sacrifice of the Mass*. Catholic priests are re-sacrificing Christ daily, and that is not the Lord's Supper.

She didn't reference "The Lord's Supper", she said "The Last Supper."

 

[Taken]

I don't believe anyone can be LGBT and Christian.

I find a FINE LINE, between BELIEF, and COMMITMENT.

I know homosexuals, WHO do heartfully BELIEVE, but NOT committed.

I know homosexuals, WHO do heartfully BELIEVE, and ARE committed.....but that "DO" as many Hetrosexuals do....(lie, sneak, cheat, deceive, etc. )

Do I believe THEY ARE Converted and Saved?
Absolutely.

Do I believe THEY are "sinning" ?
Absolutely not.

Do I believe THEIR "SIN AGAINST GOD" of Disbelief, was Forgiven by God?
Absolutely.

Do I believe, THEIR (homosexual or hetrosexuals) lying, cheating, deceiving other men,
IS A SIN AGAINST GOD? No.
IS A SIN AGAINST the person, they lied to, cheated, deceived, stole from, or whatever it was they did? No.
I believe THEY TRESPASSED AGAINST the Other person.

And I believe the Word of God tells us explicitly....those ARE Trespasses...and HOW to avoid them...and HOW to "repair/fix" them.

As well I believe the Word of God tells us explicitly....all men shall have to bare their own burdens.

Christ Jesus bared our burden so we could receive Forgivness for not having BELIEVED in God.

However, when men deceive men: cheat, lie, steal, whatever.....the Perpertrator, ie the Trespasser (against the other man), has to bare the burden. What burden?

The other (who has been trespassed against)...may hate you, by civil law, take your children away from you, cause you great financial burden, you may lose your upstanding reputation, become rejected by your community, friends, family, you may lose your job, your home, maybe not forgive you, etc. etc. (numerous possibilities)....AND?

That is the mans BURDEN to bare.

It does not in one IOTA, affect the mans Conversion or Salvation of a Converted mans soul or Quickened Spirit.

It certainly MAY affect, the mans "position" in Gods Kingdom, and the "CROWNS" he receives.

Men are certainly apt to make Trespasses against other men...intentionally or unintentionally. The Lord provides the remedy. The man bare the burden.

And the Lesson is....for such a man, to get to getting and KEEP Learning MORE of Gods Word, the Scripture reveals of "HIS PRECEPTS"...ie HOW to treat other people, for the most Optimum, and Favorable Result...

That AVOIDS Trespassing against other men, and THEN being SUBJECT TO, a whole host of Unfavorable consequences....ie the BURDEN.

Having debated it with some, they redefine the word of God to say things it does not say. That the Old Testament does not apply. They claim they were created that way. Some even claim Jesus was gay.

Well sure, I can believe that, just as I can believe heterosexual people, who do the same thing. (so I do not think that is particularly a homosexual thing). Saying Jesus was a Pacifist, born that way, God gave them their weird mindful thoughts, etc.

There are millions of people, and just as many million of different thought processes, of people dictating their mindful thoughts and trying to FIT God in agreement with their minds thoughts. Problem is: God has declared a mans Carnal Mind is Against Him...
So THAT, from the git-go is a FAIL, and easy to dismiss.

I just believe one has to be so far out of line with what the Bible teaches they just will not repent.

I think there are many schools of thought on that. I don't think people are so fearful of repenting, as they are fearful of OH NO...
If they become Converted.....and drink a beer, miss a day of church, get angry, not like someone, don't pin a sign to their back saying "I'm a Christian, walk all over me"....etc.
That, "they will go to hell".

Many of them believe in universal salvation.

I suppose they do, but I am not keen on EXACTLY what "they" mean by that term.

Absolutely I believe Salvation IS OFFERED to ANY terrestrial man in the World.

In the "Universe"? Don't know of ANY men out in the Cosmos, among the stars and planets. Angels, yes, men no. And Angels are not Offered salvation.

Ever listened to a gay preacher or a female one? Did you honestly hear Christ in their message?

Can't say I have exposed myself to that.
Have come across some homosexual comedians, who have mentioned God and Jesus Christ in their dialogue, and had nothing whatsoever to do with His preaching and teaching, but that they inferred that it did. Didn't take long to turn that off.

There are whole missions built around former gays who became Christian. That is another source of why I reject the idea they cannot be Christian while still LGBT.

Wait. You said "former", and then say "still".
That doesn't jive.
We are all "former" sinners AGAINST God...
Some become "reformed", being no longer Against God, others, remain Against God.

Strict adherents to Catholicism follow Catholicism, not the Bible.

I can't speak to what is a "strict catholic".
What little I do know about Catholicism, is their made up words for their "rules", is like hocus pocus, mumbo jumbo, straying so far off of the Word of God, it is but as irrelevant nonsense to my ears.

As far as following the teachings of Jesus. There are millions that follow the philosophy of what Jesus taught without following Jesus.

I do not see Jesus having a Philosophy, or being a Philosopher, so no clue what other people have decided what "philosophy" they attribute to Jesus, and claim to follow.

Following Jesus teachings is a slippery slope point. How well do they have to follow it to be saved? Doesn't that thinking crossover into works?

Following, thinking, works...do not save a man. Following LEADS to the possibility of becoming SAVED.

Does that mean deathbed confessions save no one because they have had no chance to follow the teachings of Jesus.

No. Because Salvation is not about Following.
Receiving Salvation is about Confessing BELIEF.

Two Thieves hung next to Jesus. One called out to Jesus....Lord. Lord? That man just acknowledged TO JESUS, his belief IN Jesus, as The Lord. THAT is what saved that man, 'not that mans following 8 words' (to remember him).

I am just saying God judges who is saved. Unless blatantly showing themselves unsaved per the Bible we don't know.

Everyone will be Judged.
The saved and the unsaved.
The Saved will be Judged and rewarded for their good works....which is glorifying Gods name on Earth.
All other works....of the Saved and the UnSaved (which of the Unsaved is every one of their works);
SHALL Be burned.

How can you KNOW if an other is SAVED?
1) their claim, which is an "indication".
2) they will NEVER be able to claim...disbelief in God, in Christ Jesus.
If they do...their claim of being saved is fraudulent.

The problem with denominations is membership requires you sign on to their beliefs, uphold their beliefs and reject all other denominations beliefs. It's so bad people do not do identify as being Christian, but denominational affiliation. And do not question.

Yes, it's called Allegience. And agree, many who make that agreement of Adherence and Allegience ... privately disagree with much that is part of THAT denominations "mission statement".

I attended a Southern Baptist Church once. I pointed out a problem with what the minister said in a classroom. I bounced all the way to the minister who did not say I was wrong but said that's not what their denomination supports. So I could either conform or leave. My wife and I left.

Well there ya go. You pointed out "directly" to the Church cleric. And he told you directly, that was their standing. He didn't boot you out, (as some denominations WOULD). You elected to leave on your own.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Enoch111]

She didn't reference "The Lord's Supper", she said "The Last Supper."

Right. And the Last Supper was also the Lord's Supper.

 

[Willie T]

Right. And the Last Supper was also the Lord's Supper.

Not really, that name was chosen quite some time after the reformation movement because Protestants wanted a different name for the Missa… one that did not sound Catholic.

 

[Enoch111]

Not really, that name was chosen quite some time after the reformation movement because Protestants wanted a different name for the Missa… one that did not sound Catholic.

However, the term "the Lord's Supper" is already found in Scripture:

When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper. (1 Cor 11:20)

By making this statement Paul was not denying that it is the Lord's Supper, but rebuking the Corinthians for observing it improperly. Verses 20-34 provide the context.

 

[CoreIssue]

="Taken, post: 484268, member: 7756"]I find a FINE LINE, between BELIEF, and COMMITMENT.

I know homosexuals, WHO do heartfully BELIEVE, but NOT committed.

I know homosexuals, WHO do heartfully BELIEVE, and ARE committed.....but that "DO" as many Hetrosexuals do....(lie, sneak, cheat, deceive, etc. )

Do I believe THEY ARE Converted and Saved?
Absolutely.

Not crossing at thin line you believe in means they are not saved.

The New Testament says homosexuality will put you in hell. Those that repent were homosexuals but are no longer.

Do I believe THEY are "sinning" ?
Absolutely not.

The Bible says they are.

Do I believe THEIR "SIN AGAINST GOD" of Disbelief, was Forgiven by God?
Absolutely.

If they continue in that lifestyle and defend it they were never forgiven and never repented.

Do I believe, THEIR (homosexual or hetrosexuals) lying, cheating, deceiving other men,
IS A SIN AGAINST GOD? No.
IS A SIN AGAINST the person, they lied to, cheated, deceived, stole from, or whatever it was they did? No.
I believe THEY TRESPASSED AGAINST the Other person.

And I believe the Word of God tells us explicitly....those ARE Trespasses...and HOW to avoid them...and HOW to "repair/fix" them.

Now you are splitting hairs splitting hairs by trying to lump in heterosexuals.

If someone is a homosexual who sees no problem with that lifestyle it is a farce for them to say they are a Christian Bible repentance.

It means they have to totally disregard, rewrite and sear their mind to the truth.

Repentance means change but they refused to change.

As well I believe the Word of God tells us explicitly....all men shall have to bare their own burdens.

I agree. It also tells them what will put them in hell.

Christ Jesus bared our burden so we could receive Forgivness for not having BELIEVED in God.

Forgiveness requires repentance.

By your argument as long as a murderer seeks forgiveness they can go on murdering.

Homosexuality is a sin against self, God,Society and the Bible.

Remember the issue in the church and what the apostle told them to do? Throw them out Satan can kill their bodies to save their spirits.

It does not in one IOTA, affect the mans Conversion or Salvation of a Converted mans soul or Quickened Spirit.

The question is were they actually saved. You cannot tell me they were. Only God knows.

It certainly MAY affect, the mans "position" in Gods Kingdom, and the "CROWNS" he receives.

Men are certainly apt to make Trespasses against other men...intentionally or unintentionally. The Lord provides the remedy. The man bare the burden.

And the Lesson is....for such a man, to get to getting and KEEP Learning MORE of Gods Word, the Scripture reveals of "HIS PRECEPTS"...ie HOW to treat other people, for the most Optimum, and Favorable Result...

That AVOIDS Trespassing against other men, and THEN being SUBJECT TO, a whole host of Unfavorable consequences....ie the BURDEN

With homosexuality the only fix is to quit being a homosexual.

Well sure, I can believe that, just as I can believe heterosexual people, who do the same thing. (so I do not think that is particularly a homosexual thing). Saying Jesus was a Pacifist, born that way, God gave them their weird mindful thoughts, etc.

While any sin can condemn one to hell the Bible does not treat homosexuality the same as such as lies. It treated far more serious.

There are millions of people, and just as many million of different thought processes, of people dictating their mindful thoughts and trying to FIT God in agreement with their minds thoughts. Problem is: God has declared a mans Carnal Mind is Against Him...
So THAT, from the git-go is a FAIL, and easy to dismiss.

Dismiss? Really

I think there are many schools of thought on that. I don't think people are so fearful of repenting, as they are fearful of OH NO...
If they become Converted.....and drink a beer, miss a day of church, get angry, not like someone, don't pin a sign to their back saying "I'm a Christian, walk all over me"....etc.
That, "they will go to hell".

Yep. And that is one of the issues with denominationalism that teach such thing.

But the subject is homosexuality, not Budweiser.

Absolutely I believe Salvation IS OFFERED to ANY terrestrial man in the World.

Offered to everyone who has ever lived.

In the "Universe"? Don't know of ANY men out in the Cosmos, among the stars and planets. Angels, yes, men no. And Angels are not Offered salvation.

Why men?, Alien beings, which I do not believe in, unless you include demons.

Can't say I have exposed myself to that.
Have come across some homosexual comedians, who have mentioned God and Jesus Christ in their dialogue, and had nothing whatsoever to do with His preaching and teaching, but that they inferred that it did. Didn't take long to turn that off.

Wait. You said "former", and then say "still".
That doesn't jive.

Former, as in repented and left the lifestyle.

Still are, as in claiming to have become Christian but did not and remain in the lifestyle.

We are all "former" sinners AGAINST God...
Some become "reformed", being no longer Against God, others, remain Against God.[/QUOTE]

We still sin, but the sin is covered by the blood.

I can't speak to what is a "strict catholic".
What little I do know about Catholicism, is their made up words for their "rules", is like hocus pocus, mumbo jumbo, straying so far off of the Word of God, it is but as irrelevant nonsense to my ears.

I do not see Jesus having a Philosophy, or being a Philosopher, so no clue what other people have decided what "philosophy" they attribute to Jesus, and claim to follow.

Following, thinking, works...do not save a man. Following LEADS to the possibility of becoming SAVED.

Jesus is not a philosophy. But some like some of the aspects of what Jesus and the apostles taught as something of a guideline for life, but have no use for this being saved nonsense, according to them.

No. Because Salvation is not about Following.
Receiving Salvation is about Confessing BELIEF.

Two Thieves hung next to Jesus. One called out to Jesus....Lord. Lord? That man just acknowledged TO JESUS, his belief IN Jesus, as The Lord. THAT is what saved that man, 'not that mans following 8 words' (to remember him).

Everyone will be Judged.
The saved and the unsaved.
The Saved will be Judged and rewarded for their good works....which is glorifying Gods name on Earth.
All other works....of the Saved and the UnSaved (which of the Unsaved is every one of their works);
SHALL Be burned.

Agree.

How can you KNOW if an other is SAVED?
1) their claim, which is an "indication".
2) they will NEVER be able to claim...disbelief in God, in Christ Jesus.
If they do...their claim of being saved is fraudulent.

Yes, it's called Allegience. And agree, many who make that agreement of Adherence and Allegience ... privately disagree with much that is part of THAT denominations "mission statement".[/QUOTE]

Which is unhealthy. They are lying about their adherence.

But others do adhere which is denying what the Bible teaches.

Well there ya go. You pointed out "directly" to the Church cleric. And he told you directly, that was their standing. He didn't boot you out, (as some denominations WOULD). You elected to leave on your own.

No I didn't. It was an ultimatum. Obey, leave or shut up.

Glory to God,
Taken[/QUOTE]

 

[Willie T]

However, the term "the Lord's Supper" is already found in Scripture:

When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper. (1 Cor 11:20)

By making this statement Paul was not denying that it is the Lord's Supper, but rebuking the Corinthians for observing it improperly. Verses 20-34 provide the context.

Go on.... read the rest of it. They were not talking about the "sacraments" of a little wafer and a sip of wine.

 

[quietthinker]

I fully realize not many of us seem capable of giving any answer in just a few sentences. But, can we try this time, in this one thread, if nowhere else? Can we just point out what we think is the primary thing that distinguishes one as a Protestant?
I'll start. I say a Protestant is one who believes the Bible can be read and understood by ordinary people..... and should be.

If one does not know what distinguishes a Protestant in essence, one is no longer a Protestant.
If one needs to make a lot of words to explain this essence of being Protestant one is lost in the jargon.

The religion of Rome is fundamentally pagan with a veneer that uses the name of Jesus to rubber stamp its many blasphemies.
Those brave folk standing up and speaking out against this system, even giving their lives for their testimony are indeed the protesters.

They recognise the all sufficiency of Jesus and identify the imposter.

The system of Protestantism is now so closely aligned to Rome it is no surprise that one can hardly tell the difference. They therefore no longer protest Rome's blasphemies. They have joined hands with Moab.

 

[OzSpen]

I fully realize not many of us seem capable of giving any answer in just a few sentences. But, can we try this time, in this one thread, if nowhere else? Can we just point out what we think is the primary thing that distinguishes one as a Protestant?
I'll start. I say a Protestant is one who believes the Bible can be read and understood by ordinary people..... and should be.

Willie,

It's not that easy because it was Martin Luther who started the Reformation and these were some of his beefs with the Roman Catholic Church:

The 95 Theses

Out of love for the truth and from desire to elucidate it, the Reverend Father Martin Luther, Master of Arts and Sacred Theology, and ordinary lecturer therein at Wittenberg, intends to defend the following statements and to dispute on them in that place. Therefore he asks that those who cannot be present and dispute with him orally shall do so in their absence by letter. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, Amen.​

Take a read of these online, and you'll there are many, many reasons why Luther became and I am Protestant.

One reason I am a Protestant is because it is Scripture that is God-breathed (2 Tim 3:16 NIV) and not the traditions of the church or papal infallibility.

Oz

 

[brakelite]

One reason I am a Protestant is because it is Scripture that is God-breathed (2 Tim 3:16 NIV) and not the traditions of the church or papal infallibility.

I think this, and a few previous such as Enoch's reference to sola scriptura, hits the nail squarely. I read once, and I don't know how authoritative it was, that originally pro-testant was one who was willing to stand for truth...he was pro the testimony of scripture. It was Catholics who reversed the sense to give it negative connotations.

 

[farouk]

I think this, and a few previous such as Enoch's reference to sola scriptura, hits the nail squarely. I read once, and I don't know how authoritative it was, that originally pro-testant was one who was willing to stand for truth...he was pro the testimony of scripture. It was Catholics who reversed the sense to give it negative connotations.

Another way of saying 'protest' is 'declare'...

Guy de Brès said something to the effect of: 'We protest our desire to reform ourselves according to God's Word..."

 

[Prayer Warrior]

True. At the same time, the stance of a Protestant (and this could also include all non-Catholics, whether Protestant or not) is summed up in the Five Solas of the Reformation:

The Five Solas are:

1. Sola Scriptura (“Scripture alone”): The Bible alone is our highest authority.
2. Sola Fide (“faith alone”): We are saved through faith alone in Jesus Christ.
3. Sola Gratia (“grace alone”): We are saved by the grace of God alone.
4. Solus Christus (“Christ alone”): Jesus Christ alone is our Lord, Savior, and King.
5. Soli Deo Gloria (“to the glory of God alone”): We live for the glory of God alone.

Technically Protestants are those who are members of the Reformed Churches, which include the Reformed congregations (calling themselves Reformed), Presbyterians, Lutherans, Anglicans/Episcopalians. The Methodists came out of the Anglicans. But many (if not most) mainline churches have seriously departed from the original Protestant position because of theological liberalism.

I agree with the Five Solas, but I don't think of Protestant as strictly Reformed (with a capital R), which I define as mostly Calvinist. Maybe I'm wrong about this; I'm sure someone will correct me if I am. (Just be nice, okay?)

 

[Enoch111]

I agree with the Five Solas, but I don't think of Protestant as strictly Reformed (with a capital R), which I define as mostly Calvinist. Maybe I'm wrong about this; I'm sure someone will correct me if I am. (Just be nice, okay?)

Unfortunately you are 100% wrong.

PROTESTANT = REFORMED = CALVINIST

All the Reformers held the same beliefs as Calvin, and this became Reformed Theology. It was codified in the Westminster Confession of Faith, which clearly states that God elects some for salvation and others for damnation.

Chapter III
III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.

There were many other Christians outside the Roman Catholic Church which did not need to become *Protestants* since they were simply non-Catholics.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Unfortunately you are 100% wrong.

PROTESTANT = REFORMED = CALVINIST

All the Reformers held the same beliefs as Calvin, and this became Reformed Theology. It was codified in the Westminster Confession of Faith, which clearly states that God elects some for salvation and others for damnation.

Chapter III
III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.

There were many other Christians outside the Roman Catholic Church which did not need to become *Protestants* since they were simply non-Catholics.

Well, thanks for being so nice about is. (NOT!) Is Luther's doctrine not considered Protestant? He was not a Calvinist.

 

[Enoch111]

Well, thanks for being so nice about is. (NOT!) Is Luther's doctrine not considered Protestant? He was not a Calvinist.

Lutherans are rather strange. According to their confessions of faith they are partially Calvinists and partially Romanists.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Lutherans are rather strange. According to their confessions of faith they are partially Calvinists and partially Romanists.

I just don't see Protestantism as limited to Calvinism. I suppose that no one will lose their salvation based on this right or wrong view, so maybe you and I can agree to disagree.

 

[Nancy]

I agree with the Five Solas, but I don't think of Protestant as strictly Reformed (with a capital R), which I define as mostly Calvinist. Maybe I'm wrong about this; I'm sure someone will correct me if I am. (Just be nice, okay?)

The Church I recently left was considered Reformed Baptists and, yes they are Calvinists (hence WHY I left, among other things but-left on very good terms ♥)
I have also heard of "Reformed Methodists" and others. By NO means is every protestant body Calvinists! Yikes! I happen to be an Armenian, very different beliefs when it comes to salvation as well as several other doctrines. Of the four different protestant churches I belonged, only the last one was of the T.U.L.I.P. variety... JMTC