What distinguishes a "Protestant?"

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CoreIssue

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The priests demanded that the states which had accepted the Reformation submit implicitly to Romish jurisdiction. The Reformers, on the other hand, claimed the liberty which had previously been granted. They could not consent that Rome should again bring under her control those states that had with so great joy received the word of God. GC 199.1
As a compromise it was finally proposed that where the Reformation had not become established, the Edict of Worms should be rigorously enforced; and that “in those where the people had deviated from it, and where they could not conform to it without danger of revolt, they should at least effect no new reform, they should touch upon no controverted point, they should not oppose the celebration of the mass, they should permit no Roman Catholic to embrace Lutheranism.”—Ibid., b. 13, ch. 5. This measure passed the Diet, to the great satisfaction of the popish priests and prelates. GC 199.2
If this edict were enforced, “the Reformation could neither be extended ... where as yet it was unknown, nor be established on solid foundations ... where it already existed.”—Ibid., b. 13, ch. 5. Liberty of speech would be prohibited. No conversions would be allowed. And to these restrictions and prohibitions the friends of the Reformation were required at once to submit. The hopes of the world seemed about to be extinguished. “The re-establishment of the Romish hierarchy ... would infallibly bring back the ancient abuses;” and an occasion would readily be found for “completing the destruction of a work already so violently shaken” by fanaticism and dissension.—Ibid., b. 13, ch. 5. GC 199.3
As the evangelical party met for consultation, one looked to another in blank dismay. From one to another passed the inquiry: “What is to be done?” Mighty issues for the world were at stake. “Shall the chiefs of the Reformation submit, and accept the edict? How easily might the Reformers at this crisis, which was truly a tremendous one, have argued themselves into a wrong course! How many plausible pretexts and fair reasons might they have found for submission! The Lutheran princes were guaranteed the free exercise of their religion. The same boon was extended to all those of their subjects who, prior to the passing of the measure, had embraced the reformed views. Ought not this to content them? How many perils would submission avoid! On what unknown hazards and conflicts would opposition launch them! Who knows what opportunities the future may bring? Let us embrace peace; let us seize the olive branch Rome holds out, and close the wounds of Germany. With arguments like these might the Reformers have justified their adoption of a course which would have assuredly issued in no long time in the overthrow of their cause. GC 199.4
“Happily they looked at the principle on which this arrangement was based, and they acted in faith.What was that principle? It was the right of Rome to coerce conscience and forbid free inquiry. But were not themselves and their Protestantsubjects to enjoy religious freedom?Yes, as a favor specially stipulated for in the arrangement, but not as a right. As to all outside that arrangement, the great principle of authority was to rule; conscience was out of court; Rome was infallible judge, and must be obeyed. The acceptance of the proposed arrangement would have been a virtual admission that religious liberty ought to be confined to reformed Saxony; and as to all the rest of Christendom, free inquiry and the profession of the reformed faith were crimes, and must be visited with the dungeon and the stake.Could they consent to localize religious liberty? to have it proclaimed that the Reformation had made its last convert? had subjugated its last acre? and that wherever Rome bore sway at this hour, there her dominion was to be perpetuated? Could the Reformers have pleaded that they were innocent of the blood of those hundreds and thousands who, in pursuance of this arrangement, would have to yield up their lives in popish lands? This would have been to betray, at that supreme hour, the cause of the gospel and the liberties of Christendom.”—Wylie, b. 9, ch. 15.Rather would they “sacrifice everything, even their states, their crowns, and their lives.”—D’Aubigne, b. 13, ch. 5. G

All will the simple.

Protestants were those who rebelled against Catholicism, politically and theologically.

So that term does not apply anymore since Catholicism does not rule politically or theologically.

What is interesting is the denominations that rebelled are all apostate now.

Those who follow the literal Bible only are neither Protestant or Catholic. Or any denomination in fact.
 
B

brakelite

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Those who follow the literal Bible only are neither Protestant or Catholic.
If you followed the Bible literally, you would be observing the 7th day Sabbath instead of Sunday. You are correct that you are not a Protestant. You couldn't be more incorrect that the Catholic church does not rule politically or theologically. How many Catholic doctrines do you still adhere to because you ceased to be a Protestant? How many Catholics on the Supreme Court whose loyalties are to the Vatican first, and America second?
How much to you cling to Catholic tradition in demanding people follow your way and understanding of scripture rather than leaving people to their own conscience?
 
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CoreIssue

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If you followed the Bible literally, you would be observing the 7th day Sabbath instead of Sunday. You are correct that you are not a Protestant. You couldn't be more incorrect that the Catholic church does not rule politically or theologically. How many Catholic doctrines do you still adhere to because you ceased to be a Protestant? How many Catholics on the Supreme Court whose loyalties are to the Vatican first, and America second?
How much to you cling to Catholic tradition in demanding people follow your way and understanding of scripture rather than leaving people to their own conscience?

There is no 7th day Sabbath in the NT.
 

Willie T

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BTW, no one follows the Bible literally. No, not one single person on the face of the Earth.
We all sin and fall short.
Fewer and fewer actually except the Bible and what it says literally.
All the denominations are in the toilet.
Perhaps I should have made it clearer. I am saying that not you, me, nor anyone else in the world ever has any intention of following the Bible literally. And none of us do.
 

Marymog

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The priests demanded that the states which had accepted the Reformation submit implicitly to Romish jurisdiction. The Reformers, on the other hand, claimed the liberty which had previously been granted. They could not consent that Rome should again bring under her control those states that had with so great joy received the word of God. GC 199.1
As a compromise it was finally proposed that where the Reformation had not become established, the Edict of Worms should be rigorously enforced; and that “in those where the people had deviated from it, and where they could not conform to it without danger of revolt, they should at least effect no new reform, they should touch upon no controverted point, they should not oppose the celebration of the mass, they should permit no Roman Catholic to embrace Lutheranism.”—Ibid., b. 13, ch. 5. This measure passed the Diet, to the great satisfaction of the popish priests and prelates. GC 199.2
If this edict were enforced, “the Reformation could neither be extended ... where as yet it was unknown, nor be established on solid foundations ... where it already existed.”—Ibid., b. 13, ch. 5. Liberty of speech would be prohibited. No conversions would be allowed. And to these restrictions and prohibitions the friends of the Reformation were required at once to submit. The hopes of the world seemed about to be extinguished. “The re-establishment of the Romish hierarchy ... would infallibly bring back the ancient abuses;” and an occasion would readily be found for “completing the destruction of a work already so violently shaken” by fanaticism and dissension.—Ibid., b. 13, ch. 5. GC 199.3
As the evangelical party met for consultation, one looked to another in blank dismay. From one to another passed the inquiry: “What is to be done?” Mighty issues for the world were at stake. “Shall the chiefs of the Reformation submit, and accept the edict? How easily might the Reformers at this crisis, which was truly a tremendous one, have argued themselves into a wrong course! How many plausible pretexts and fair reasons might they have found for submission! The Lutheran princes were guaranteed the free exercise of their religion. The same boon was extended to all those of their subjects who, prior to the passing of the measure, had embraced the reformed views. Ought not this to content them? How many perils would submission avoid! On what unknown hazards and conflicts would opposition launch them! Who knows what opportunities the future may bring? Let us embrace peace; let us seize the olive branch Rome holds out, and close the wounds of Germany. With arguments like these might the Reformers have justified their adoption of a course which would have assuredly issued in no long time in the overthrow of their cause. GC 199.4
“Happily they looked at the principle on which this arrangement was based, and they acted in faith.What was that principle? It was the right of Rome to coerce conscience and forbid free inquiry. But were not themselves and their Protestantsubjects to enjoy religious freedom?Yes, as a favor specially stipulated for in the arrangement, but not as a right. As to all outside that arrangement, the great principle of authority was to rule; conscience was out of court; Rome was infallible judge, and must be obeyed. The acceptance of the proposed arrangement would have been a virtual admission that religious liberty ought to be confined to reformed Saxony; and as to all the rest of Christendom, free inquiry and the profession of the reformed faith were crimes, and must be visited with the dungeon and the stake.Could they consent to localize religious liberty? to have it proclaimed that the Reformation had made its last convert? had subjugated its last acre? and that wherever Rome bore sway at this hour, there her dominion was to be perpetuated? Could the Reformers have pleaded that they were innocent of the blood of those hundreds and thousands who, in pursuance of this arrangement, would have to yield up their lives in popish lands? This would have been to betray, at that supreme hour, the cause of the gospel and the liberties of Christendom.”—Wylie, b. 9, ch. 15.Rather would they “sacrifice everything, even their states, their crowns, and their lives.”—D’Aubigne, b. 13, ch. 5. G
Many of the reformers like John Calvin and Ulrich Zwingli were not averse to using state powers to enforce Christian rules (Shelley, 2013, pp. 258 – 271). There are three main eras that can be highlighted when looking historically at where the church and the state play unique roles. One particularly telling time was the Protestant Reformation. As Christianity transformed itself from the sole ownership of the Roman Catholic Church to the protestant masses the need for the division of church and state became clear. Nowhere did this stand out more than the Anabaptism movement and John Calvin’s Geneva. It was the protestant reformation and the persecution of the Anabaptists that really brought about clarity that church and state must be separate in order to bring about the most Christian society.

John Calvin’s Geneva is a good example of this as the city elders adopted a city constitution drafted by Calvin that outlawed things like dancing, drinking, and made it illegal to not attend church (Shelley, 2013, p. 270). The climax of this in Geneva would be the incident that ended with the burning of Michael Servetus. Something to note about this incident is that though Calvin argued for a more merciful death, Calvin certainly was not arguing that Servetus should have been set free (Shelley, 2013, p. 271). Elsewhere in the world, Zurich, Ulrich Zwingli was faced with a new Protestantism in a group called the Anabaptists. Anabaptists had different beliefs but the one that fits this conversation is the belief that church and state should be separate (Shelley, 2013, p. 260). When the beliefs of Zwingli and the people of Zurich were challenged by the Anabaptists and the Anabaptists lost the debate they were given the ultimatum to submit or die (Shelley, 2013, p. 261). The Anabaptists fled to a community only to be followed and executed. According to Shelley there were as many as 5000 Anabaptists martyred for what they believed. (Shelley, 2013, p. 262). This persecution was not because they were typically immoral or dangerous people (Newson, 2013). It was also not isolated to one area (Geraerts, 2012). It was simply because they held a different doctrinal position than the Protestant and Catholic state.

Historical Mary
 

Taken

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No - YOU claim that you don't sin.

FIRST.....
....Your post # 417

YOU CLAIM "FOR ME"...

And your claim that you have NO sin....

AND NOW....
...Your post # 428

YOU CLAIM "FOR ME"

You claim that you don't sin.

LOL....even your own fabricated lies do not match....

And "IF" your fabricated lies were something I claimed.....WHY ARE you conveniently SPEAKING FOR ME, instead of quoting me, saying what YOU CLAIM FOR ME?

Get to getting....

Quote my words, and Your false claims next to my own claims...

Skeered? LOL
 
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BreadOfLife

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FIRST.....
....Your post # 417
YOU CLAIM "FOR ME"...
AND NOW....
...Your post # 428
YOU CLAIM "FOR ME"
LOL....even your own fabricated lies do not match....
And "IF" your fabricated lies were something I claimed.....WHY ARE you conveniently SPEAKING FOR ME, instead of quoting me, saying what YOU CLAIM FOR ME?
Get to getting....
Quote my words, and Your false claims next to my own claims...
Skeered? LOL
No – you’re LYING again, as usual.

Back in post #413, I told YOU that nobody is good because we still sin.
YOU responded in post #414 by saying:

“YOU continue to COMMIT SIN.
YOU are not good. YOU are not perfected.
That does not APPLY to me.”


You see – this is the beauty of an online forum. You CAN’T just lie and get away with it.
So, if you want to keep lying – do it somewhere else. You’ll get caught here . . .
 

CoreIssue

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That says nothing. I said none of us — not me, not you, none of us, do or will literally follow all the Bible. Do you say you do and will?

Perhaps I should have made it clearer. I am saying that not you, me, nor anyone else in the world ever has any intention of following the Bible literally. And none of us do.
 

Willie T

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Do you, CoreIssue, intend to literally follow all of the Bible? ('Yes' or 'No')

I absolutely have no intention of doing so, and I will not.
 
B

brakelite

Guest
Many of the reformers like John Calvin and Ulrich Zwingli were not averse to using state powers to enforce Christian rules (Shelley, 2013, pp. 258 – 271). There are three main eras that can be highlighted when looking historically at where the church and the state play unique roles. One particularly telling time was the Protestant Reformation. As Christianity transformed itself from the sole ownership of the Roman Catholic Church to the protestant masses the need for the division of church and state became clear. Nowhere did this stand out more than the Anabaptism movement and John Calvin’s Geneva. It was the protestant reformation and the persecution of the Anabaptists that really brought about clarity that church and state must be separate in order to bring about the most Christian society.

John Calvin’s Geneva is a good example of this as the city elders adopted a city constitution drafted by Calvin that outlawed things like dancing, drinking, and made it illegal to not attend church (Shelley, 2013, p. 270). The climax of this in Geneva would be the incident that ended with the burning of Michael Servetus. Something to note about this incident is that though Calvin argued for a more merciful death, Calvin certainly was not arguing that Servetus should have been set free (Shelley, 2013, p. 271). Elsewhere in the world, Zurich, Ulrich Zwingli was faced with a new Protestantism in a group called the Anabaptists. Anabaptists had different beliefs but the one that fits this conversation is the belief that church and state should be separate (Shelley, 2013, p. 260). When the beliefs of Zwingli and the people of Zurich were challenged by the Anabaptists and the Anabaptists lost the debate they were given the ultimatum to submit or die (Shelley, 2013, p. 261). The Anabaptists fled to a community only to be followed and executed. According to Shelley there were as many as 5000 Anabaptists martyred for what they believed. (Shelley, 2013, p. 262). This persecution was not because they were typically immoral or dangerous people (Newson, 2013). It was also not isolated to one area (Geraerts, 2012). It was simply because they held a different doctrinal position than the Protestant and Catholic state.

Historical Mary
Thanks Mary, and yes that's true. The history of England is the story of two opposing church state systems vying for control. One was no better than the other in that regard although at least the CoE was a localised power rather than a foreign power trying to invade...
I think it was John Williams of Rhode island fame that brought true religious freedom to the mind of the American flounders.
 
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Taken

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No – you’re LYING again, as usual.

Wrong again.

Back in post #413, I told YOU that nobody is good because we still sin.

Yes, that is what YOU SAID.

YOU responded in post #414 by saying:

“YOU continue to COMMIT SIN.
YOU are not good. YOU are not perfected.

Yes, I agreed with you, that that APPLIES TO YOU.


That does not APPLY to me.”

Yes, I also said What APPLIES TO YOU, does not APPLY to me.

Where is the supposed LIE?

Doesn't EXIST!

You said what APPLIES TO YOU. I agreed.
I said what does not APPLY to me.
YOU call me a liar.

LOL...

Congrats on your twisted thinking.

Taken