What does it mean to be born again?

[Lizbeth]

We can improve our situation through discipline and devotions. But these things were always available. On this thread I am speaking about the higher calling into which we have been regenerated to participate in.


Do you see that there is such a thing as the higher walk. A walk that is actually what Paul is referring to...which so many modern believers take to be a religious posturing and claim to have it by "faith." (Actually make-believe) I defend the truth at its depth because there is a bad outcome for those who lie about spiritual things.

We can go either way after we are born again...as I said in my video. We can go the way of humility...or iniquity. The presumption of perfection is going the wrong way. Humility sees the need...and goes to God for the full measure of grace. But nobody seems to trust that seeking God for His empowerment has any value. Hence the faith crisis in the modern church. Reality is seen as too hard.




This is an example of reading yourself into the text...a practice that leads to iniquity. Instead you should say... Paul's testimony is... (Not Paul says that we...)


There is a 24/7 walk that ensues until a person sins a sin unto death (separation). Of course the devil will work overtime to get the saint to sin...bringing temptations that he/she never experienced before. And so often, the saint is immature and doesn't realize he/she is even being tempted. So we come OUT of the Spirit...and spend time in deep repentance and contemplation (sometimes for years) . That is, until we are permitted access back into Zion and the heavenly walk. A saint will go in and out of the Spirit walk a number of times before learning what it takes to remain there permanently. But each time the saint walks in the Spirit...it is a 24/7 perfection in Christ (even to the dreams at night) for however long he/she can remain there based on maturity. God's keeping power is very strong...lasting as long as a person doesn't sin unto death. We're talking years at a time as the maturity progresses.

I know of these things because I was never taught by men to doubt or to make believe I have something when I clearly do not.

So then, my ignorance saved me to actually encounter the living God and walk in Zion...as Jesus walked.

Only the cross has that power. And you need to go to the throne of God and beg the Lord for that separation. He will not kill your flesh on a whim. You have to be willing to pay the price. And God knows us better than anyone. A crucified person is DEAD...self-less as God is self-less. It isn't wise to claim something on that level while still walking as a mere human.


I have said many times...the Old Man....is who we were before regeneration. But the outer man we retain UNTIL we go to the cross. False religious doctrines keep people from seeking the face of God. And people seem to hate to have to actually encounter the living God. They HATE that God requires their presence...why?

The hypocrisy and dishonesty lie in the fact that people who claim to have a "personal relationship" with God get into a real snit if you suggest that they need to seek God's face. They call that "works". Talk about a passive-aggressive Christianity. Does that mean these people were never regenerated...or that they have adopted such a bad doctrine that is makes them to be as rotten figs.

Can we not discuss without you getting into a snit all the time brother? I do not get into snits about anyone suggesting that we need to seek God's face, so why are you are even mentioning it here in a dialogue between me and you. I just tried to express how i understand some of these things so that we can try yet once again to understand where each other is coming from and attempt to sort things out. So much discouragement and put downs from you lately..... peanut gallery, monkeys in a zoo, "such as these".

I do not presume to be perfect and never have I claimed to be walking in a higher walk. Why do you think this subject interests me so much? But the new man is perfect, because the new man is Christ, His Spirit/nature within.

Anyway I'm done talking to you now. I will just have to let the Lord help me. I was trying to put aside an area of difference to look into some wonderful truths that could be such a blessing for us all to delve into, but you are turning it all sour and negative. Think you need to get off your high soap box and stop accusing and making sweeping assumptions about me and other dear souls here. Is this what you are calling a high walk?

 

[Behold]

When a post is this off the wall...I don't break it down since the whole thing is based on a heresy known as Gnosticism.

You can't actually respond to what i wrote because your mind is carnal and the Gospel of the Grace of God is unknown to you.

Also Accusing me of being a Gnostic, when all i did was show you that the Blood of Jesus is the Gift of Salvation, and this can't be earned..... just proves why you should not be here pretending to be a teacher of the NT, when you are not even able to understand that Christ is "the one time eternal sacrifice for all sin".

So, that you dont understand even that, is why you are a deceiver. And until you do understand the BLOOD ATONEMENT, all you can do is try to harm the faith of real believers.. .. video by video, Thread by Thread, post by post.

Episkopos, you dont even understand Gnosticism.
Is that because you are educated beyond your intelligence?

Let me help you with that also....
Gnostics dont believe that SIN exists. I DO...... As Jesus died for mine, long ago on THE CROSS.

Gnostics teach that there is no need for a Cross, as there is no sin .
Gnostics teach that there is no need for CHRIST because there is no SIN for Him to die for.

So what you said is ignorant, ....and you teach a lot of that, actually, which is able to harm the faith of a real believer.

Listen up..

I teach that The Cross is God's Salvation, and Jesus is our SIN bearer. and "God made Him to BE sin for us", so that we might become the righteousness of God, in Christ".

 

[Lizbeth]

@stunnedbygrace Can't find your earlier post about this, but wanted to say a little something regarding where you were talking about your back pain and submitting to God's will in it. If you, BY the Spirit, were yielding TO the Spirit, His will, regarding your back pain, then you were IN the spirit in those moments. As that is essentially what it means to be in the Spirit....yielding to the Spirit. But you may not be discerning it. It takes discernment to discern the Spirit and things of the Spirit. I don't know but maybe that is not your gift or maybe you are not aware of having it and are unpracticed in it (If you don't have it, you could ask the Lord for it though).

Anyway I'm sorry you have such a terrible ordeal with your back, and pray it may be healed.

 

[Episkopos]

Can we not discuss without you getting into a snit all the time brother? I do not get into snits about anyone suggesting that we need to seek God's face, so why are you are even mentioning it here in a dialogue between me and you.

I do so to distance myself from the Gnostic ideology you have been religiously conditioned into. I wish you could see through the pretend righteousness.

I just tried to express how i understand some of these things so that we can try yet once again to understand where each other is coming from and attempt to sort things out. So much discouragement and put downs from you lately..... peanut gallery, monkeys in a zoo, "such as these".

I have to go hard on the lie...because the truth is what sets us free. I don't play around with false doctrines...I expose them. And this is not our first rodeo. I thought you would understand these things a lot faster. But there is a depth to the error that needs to be walked out of. There is a breaking that needs to take place. When a bone has healed wrong...it needs to be re-broken. And brothers in Christ are faithful in the delivery of necessary pains that save people. Read the end of James 5...

I do not presume to be perfect and never have I claimed to be walking in a higher walk. Why do you think this subject interests me so much? But the new man is perfect, because the new man is Christ, His Spirit/nature within.

Blessed is the man that doesn't condemn himself in what he avows.

Anyway I'm done talking to you now. I will just have to let the Lord help me. I was trying to put aside an area of difference to look into some wonderful truths that could be such a blessing for us all to delve into, but you are turning it all sour and negative.

You are simply not seeing how bad you sound. I would spare you the condemnation that will come upon those who speak lies about Christ. Jesus is coming back as a thief...to steal away what has been stolen from Him. We need to go through the front door of encounter with the living God....any other way is done by the thief...taking what is NOT his/hers.
See, I take this seriously as I know the fear of God.
I fear God more than I want to make you happy. And I would prefer it if I could only encourage you...in a happy way!

Think you need to get off your high soap box and stop accusing and making sweeping assumptions about me and other dear souls here. Is this what you are calling a high walk?

I'm not walking in that high walk at this time. I'm still learning what righteousness is...and that has taken a LOT of unlearning. It's been 20 years now in this present phase after a two year walk in Zion. I don't expect you to understand the depth of what I'm saying....but maybe one day you will see why I say what I'm saying.

Peace

 

[Episkopos]

Hey @Lizbeth

What do you make (seriously) of post # 483 by @Behold? How much are you agreement with Gnostic ideology? Where do you differ...if at all?

 

[Lizbeth]

Here's a little word that is related to the subject of crucifying the flesh etc that I hope will be a blessing and encouragement to some here. It's from a brother in Africa...haven't communicated with him for a while, but I'm sure he wont' mind me sharing this:

Short Words on Living Above Weakness

Oh Lord I know for me to know the power of your resurrection, the power which will ultimately raise me above my weakness to be strong and live above the fears of falling away from the road of your holiness I must pass through long period of temptation to be handed in the hands of the unseen inward herods who will come against my soul like a river of torrent to draw me in the mire of sin, to kill and crucify my natural strength so that I will truly know of a truth in my flesh dwellest no good thing thereby seeking your infinite power to live a resurrection life and dead to the world with its idle toys and vain passing pleasures, in my daily activities. Lord truly I must know dead for me to know your resurrection. Give me grace to be still and wait on your resurrection power in the long night of temptation and weakness and never to be weary of prayer but to keep it. Amen.

And it seems appropriate to add this scripture:

Isa 40:31
But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

 

[Lizbeth]

I do so to distance myself from the Gnostic ideology you have been religiously conditioned into. I wish you could see through the pretend righteousness.




I have to go hard on the lie...because the truth is what sets us free. I don't play around with false doctrines...I expose them. And this is not our first rodeo. I thought you would understand these things a lot faster. But there is a depth to the error that needs to be walked out of. There is a breaking that needs to take place. When a bone has healed wrong...it needs to be re-broken. And brothers in Christ are faithful in the delivery of necessary pains that save people. Read the end of James 5...

Blessed is the man that doesn't condemn himself in what he avows.



You are simply not seeing how bad you sound. I would spare you the condemnation that will come upon those who speak lies about Christ. Jesus is coming back as a thief...to steal away what has been stolen from Him. We need to go through the front door of encounter with the living God....any other way is done by the thief...taking what is NOT his/hers.
See, I take this seriously as I know the fear of God.
I fear God more than I want to make you happy. And I would prefer it if I could only encourage you...in a happy way!



I'm not walking in that high walk at this time. I'm still learning what righteousness is...and that has taken a LOT of unlearning. It's been 20 years now in this present phase after a two year walk in Zion. I don't expect you to understand the depth of what I'm saying....but maybe one day you will see why I say what I'm saying.

Peace

I'm not pretending anything brother.....enjoy your high walk.

 

[Lizbeth]

You have a blessed day @Lizbeth, my circuits are also fried, I am exhausted.

you too have a blessed day my friend.....get some rest and may the Lord bless and keep you.

 

[Episkopos]

Christ dealt with all the sin of the born again, 2000 yrs ago.
So, confess what?

Romans 4:8 says that God does not charge sin to the born again.
Why not?
Because they are not under the law, as only the law has the dominion RIGHT to classify "sin" and "sinner".
The born again are under Grace, and the dominion of Grace has no Moses Law in it., because "Christ has redeemed the born again from the Curse of the Law".

There is no Moses Law in HEAVEN.
And the born again are "in Christ" and "one with God".
And where are they?

And because that has happened, Romans 4:8 is a eternal fact.
God can't charge sin to the born again, as He's already charged all sin to Jesus on the Cross who PAID for it all...2000 yrs ago.

Notice that 2 Corinthians 5:19..... says that sin is not charged.... because God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD to Himself.
But that reconciliation is conditional.

ITs based on this..

"The work of God is that you believe on JESUS whom God sent'.""

Once Belief, FAITH is given to God, God redeems all sin, and the person is born again, a new Creation "in Christ".

That is a spiritual and eternal position that is no longer ""under the law"", as "Christ is the END OF THE LAW for Righteousness, for/to everyone who believes".

See, .....When a person is under the law, the Law defines their sin., and them as sinners.
When they are under Grace, "you are not under the law, you are under Grace" if the person is born again, then the Law can't define them or their works any longer as "sin" or "sinner".= as That is the eternal effect of the Cross and blood atonement.

WELCOME TO SALVATION...

See, you cant be "in Christ" "seated in heavenly places", and "one with God".... and have any SIN.

This is why 1 John 3:9 explains that you don't., if you are born again, and not just water baptized and religious, trying to work your way to heaven.

A person who is confessing "sin" that is already dealt with 2000 yrs ago, does not understand Salvation and will read Romans 4:8 and
2 Corinthians 5:19, and have NO CLUE.
None.

This is a real beauty. I'm hoping that others will respond to this post by @Behold. I'm hoping for some honesty in what people think of his position. I see his position like a cancer on evangelicalism. It infects practically everyone but most are afraid to speak out what they really believe.

@Lizbeth? @marks? @Johann? Anyone?

 

[Episkopos]

I'm not pretending anything brother.....you go enjoy your high walk.

Religious outer man alert. See, you are in a snit. And you are not seeing my intent...to save you from the present condemnation that afflicts the modern churches (especially evangelical). You will go kicking and screaming because your faith is mixed in with a self-preservation. It isn't self-less. So you react in the flesh when it is questioned. Do you see how much we (you) rely on the flesh?

Honesty is better...as long as it leads to a deeper understanding. And with that deeper understanding we get the motivation to seek God.

 

[Behold]

This is a real beauty. I'm hoping that others will respond to this post by @Behold. I'm hoping for some honesty in what people think of his position. I see his position like a cancer on evangelicalism.

Episkopos.

You opened your own can of deception, and now you want the members to save you so that you can hide?
Im not surprised.

Also, i taught The Cross of Christ (Gospel of our Salvation).... as How God redeems a sinner from sin, using the Cross of Christ, and this redemption is their Salvation. "The GIFT of Salvation".

You told me this is "Whipping boy".....nonsense.
Episkopos.....That is Christ you are castigating with Cross Denying posts, and Legalism.

You might want to consider that being against the Cross, "whipping boy Jesus"....is not a safe place to try to deceive.

 

[Episkopos]

Episkopos.

You opened your own can of deception, and now you want them to save you so that you can hide?
Im not surprised.

I'm actually expecting them to agree with you (at least to some degree). I just think you are being more honest than they are. Gnosticism is attractive because it's easy on the flesh. Having trouble with sin? No...there is no more sin! A believer is not responsible for the sin he/she just committed... etc. You are a firm believer in this scheme whereas others may not be as legalistic to your professed dogma in their approach. I find it interesting where people deviate from the truth...and why.

Also, i taught The Cross of Christ (Gospel of our Salvation).... as How God redeems a sinner from sin, using the Cross of Christ, and this redemption is their Salvation.

You are not the first Gnostic believer. You just don't understand what the gospel is nor the New Covenant. BTW...I've got a new video coming out soon on the New Covenant.

You told me this is "Whipping boy".....nonsense.
Episkopos.....That is Christ you are castigating with Cross Denying posts, and Legalism.

You might want to consider that being against the Cross, "whipping boy Jesus"....is not a safe place to try to deceive.

Again, this sounds more like a confession than an accusation. It's God you have to answer to, not me.

 

[Behold]

I'm actually expecting them to agree with you (at least to some degree).

Again, this sounds more like a confession than an accusation. It's God you have to answer to, not me.

You are trying to walk back your Cross denying Legalism, because your "doctrine of devil's" theological ship is burning.
That's what the CROSS does to people like you, Episkopos.... who say that Jesus The Christ is a "whipping boy".
You'll find out the hard way who gets...." whipped", deceiver.
That's a fact.

Selah...

Now, if a Mod or if a member comes and says.....>" Behold is teaching that Christ is our Salvation, who paid for our sin on the Cross", you'll then accuse this PAULINE THEOLOGY as ..."there goes another Gnostic..""

See, you are lost in your own heresy now, Episkopos.
And you have 2 Choices.....you can expose yourself more as a Cross Rejecting Heretic, who hates that "Whipping Boy Jesus", or you can crawl back to your heretics commentaries and study more....and come later and try to reinvent your deception as.....>"well, what i meant was"...

"what i meant was".. "what i meant was".... "what i was actually trying to say was".....

 

[marks]

Amen, I agree. Paul is writing to believers, and if we delight in the law of God after the inward man, i think that has to be because of regeneration. Our inner man isn't quickened to love the Lord and His ways of holiness otherwise.

Exactly!

Much love!

 

[marks]

I think Paul was struggling with his Pharisaic past which gave a structure to his presentation of "Law" and "sin/death." However, I am also impacted by my own struggle with temptation and sin after salvation.

The Jews were given the Law, and not the Gentiles, but the Gentiles had "the law written on their minds", that is, their conscience, which they likewise disobeyed.

That's not to say that the conscience of a fallen, corrupted by sin man is necessarily correct. Living trying to comply with your fleshy "conscience", well, here's an example, it's your fleshy conscience that plagues you with feelings of guilt and shame. These don't come from the new creation.

He who trusts in the Lord shall never be ashamed.

Before Christ, even without the Law, we still suffered under the Law of Sin and Death. We've all sinned, we all die, we were all dead in sin.

Romans 7:4-6 KJV
4) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5) For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Law provokes sin. If God commands that you not steal, the flesh wants to steal all the more.

But now being delivered from the Law (internal/external), delivered through death, that is, baptized into Christ's death, we are to serve in newness of spirit.

Lapses in trusting and serving are only that, and God is delivering us from them all. He is even using them working them for our good, according to His promise.

We just need to come to our senses in those times, the sooner the better, and return to trusting and serving, in knowing we are reconciled to God regardless of our lapses, because our reconciliation is in Christ, in Him alone, what He did for us on the cross.

Much love!

 

[marks]

@Lizbeth? @marks? @Johann? Anyone?

If you want to have an open and honest and serious discussion where we all behave ourselves, I remain open to that, however, you aren't convincing me in the way you are posting that this is what you want.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

If you want to have an open and honest and serious discussion where we all behave ourselves, I remain open to that, however, you aren't convincing me in the way you are posting that this is what you want.

Much love!

Hey Mark,

Well, when you're ready to behave yourself maybe have a go at the posts I've indicated. Is #Behold expressing your views? Or is he deviating somewhat from what may be a flavouring that is particular to the individual. I think Behold lays out the Gnostic view very well. There is a scheme that seems to work with SOME of the verses (if they are taken out of context). It's an old heresy....plaguing the church even from the beginning. And it is still prevalent in the thoughts of many.

I saw that you were leaning very much towards Gnosticism in your emphasis on a belief system rather than a power in life to live the truth.

 

[marks]

I saw that you were leaning very much towards Gnosticism in your emphasis on a belief system rather than a power in life to live the truth.

This is just what I'm talking about. This is a non-starter. It's not real, it's not honest. What is the value in this?

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

This is a real beauty. I'm hoping that others will respond to this post by @Behold. I'm hoping for some honesty in what people think of his position. I see his position like a cancer on evangelicalism. It infects practically everyone but most are afraid to speak out what they really believe.

@Lizbeth? @marks? @Johann? Anyone?

Okay, so maybe @Behold could have worded the idea of "Christ is the END OF THE LAW..." differently, that Christ has rather "fulfilled" the law.

But what is your objection...that sin continued in the world after Christ paid the price? Or is it something else?

 

[Episkopos]

Okay, so maybe @Behold could have worded the idea of "Christ is the END OF THE LAW..." differently, that Christ has rather "fulfilled" the law.

But what is your objection...that sin continued in the world after Christ paid the price? Or is it something else?

That would be...Christ is the end of the law for righteousness...meaning the righteousness of obeying the law of Moses...basically what we call Judaism today. Do we need to become Jews to be justified in Christ? No. Paul was making a break with the law of Moses for new believers who were not of the Jewish persuasion.

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Did the world stop sinning? Is everyone covered for their sins?... or is the point the resurrection life that Jesus gives to those who join Him in His death?