What does it mean to be born again?
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Stunnedbygrace,
"dark light" ...this is my concept, my teaching regarding LUKE 11:35, ....= Jesus teaching.
So, being a dark light... its 3 things.
1.) Its to have a belief system as your theology, and that is a Light....that is your personal inner TRUTH.
2.) And this truth is not agreeing with Jesus's Truth, who is THE LIGHT of the WORLD, so, to be against THE TRUE Light is to become a DARK light.
3.) To preach this darkness, as "christianity"..
That is a "dark light".... a heretic, a Cross denier... a reprobate, a "fallen. from Grace"...to the extreme where you are not just fallen from Grace, you are openly denying it.
That is Episkopos. who said that The gift of Salvaiton, and the Grace of God, is "whipping boy" nonsense.
See his Thread you are on for an update regarding how to openly reject God's Grace and try to save yourself while trying to keep OT Law that Jesus died to deliver you from, as this is a "curse".
Episkopos.....is trying to put you under that "curse of the law" and keep you there.
He thinks this is funny, and that is why he seems to be smirking in his posts..
He really is....
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Johann
Well-Known Member
...or being "met" by Yeshua HaMashiach first.....by emunah.
Joh 6:44 No one is able to come to me unless HaAv Who sent me should draw him, and I will raise him up on the Yom HaAcharon. [Jer 31:3; Hos 11:4]
Joh_6:65, Joh_5:44, Joh_8:43, Joh_12:37-40; Isa_44:18-20; Jer_13:23; Mat_12:34; Rom_8:7-8
except: Joh_6:45, Joh_6:65, Joh_3:3-7; Mat_11:25-27, Mat_16:17; Eph_2:4-10; Php_1:29; Col_2:12; Tit_3:3-5
draw: Joh_12:32; Son_1:4; Jer_31:3; Hos_11:4
and I: Joh_6:39-40
Not trying to correct, just concurring.
J.
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Jesus is our Salvation......YES.
"The preaching of the Cross'......Is "if i be lifted up, i will Draw ALL to me"..
We "LIFT JESUS UP", when when only give Christ all the credit do Him for saving us and keeping us saved.
This message. This Gospel........ 2 Corinthians 5:19
Johann
Well-Known Member
Nothing wrong or "mysterious" here @Behold as I am in full agreement.
Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Huh…? I thought he was just saying few find the path to holiness because they leave the path to righteousness.
He was using metaphors…?
Behold
Well-Known Member
Yes.
and that my brother that you posted is not "whipping boy" nonsense as EPISKOPOS has defined it all.
Johann
Well-Known Member
That isn't what's going on. You are neglecting the conditions for that to occur. We don't throw away honesty, humility and righteousness to pretend we are something we are not. I realize your religious bent is attracted to the outrageous claims made by many here...who look to the bible...but not to God...to justify themselves. Being born from above is NO guarantee of a good outcome. The Jews are NOT hated by God...any more than Gentiles. But if He spared not the natural branches...take heed lest He not spare the ones who claim to be rich but are actually naked and blind.
Will you be able to resist the temptation offered to you by the "sirens" here?
There is a "highway of the upright" (mesilat yesharim) to consider...that keeps people from presumptuous sins. Staying true, honest, humble, and God-fearing.
And there is the way of righteousness to consider (derech tsedakah) that one is safe on until one encounters the living God to be placed under the power of His grace.
Prov. 16:8 "Better is a little with righteousness than great revenues without right."
But the great swelling words of an assumed and presumed righteousness takes people from the way that actually leads to life.
[email protected]
Choir Loft
The question asked "What does it mean to be born again?" has resulted in a confused mess of Biblically illiterate gibberish. Here's the real reason, established by context of the Bible, not secular rubbish. It's about the Image of God.
The popular LIE quoted by almost everybody is that we are all created in the Image of God. The Bible says we are NOT created in the Image of God. Therein lies the mystery of the Second Birth.
In Genesis 1:26 we are told that Eve & Adam were created in the Image of God. It starts off well enough, but before the end of the third chapter the whole thing breaks down completely.
The third chapter of Genesis is the Eden story of the fall. We remember God stated Eve & Adam were NOT to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. (The fruit is called 'opinion'.) Eve did eat and later that day she persuaded her husband to follow her into SIN. Seduction has been the way of women ever since. As a consequence of their SIN, they died. The first thing lost was the Image of God, which is the key to immortal life. Secondly, Eve & Adam were evicted from the garden so that they could not take advantage of its natural benefits to the body. Ultimately they died and returned to the dust from which they were made. Before that happened they had children.
Read the Bible carefully and you'll discover that the children of Eve & Adam bore THEIR image, not that of God. All the generations of man DIED in the same fashion as their parents BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE IMMORTAL IMAGE OF GOD. Thus the natural man is condemned to death in the same way as any sick dog or cockroach.
Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. (Ecclesiastes 3:19)
All who followed Eve & Adam demonstrate the image of their PARENTS and like their parents they DIE. The Image of God does not appear again in scripture until the New Testament.
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. (Colossians 1:15)
Think Jesus = Image of God and you've got it.
To review, humans do NOT have any autonomous ability to survive physical death. The condemnation, the judgment and the destiny of all humanity is death! (Romans 6:23) The statement that we are all born in the Image of God is false. According to the Bible none of us are born in the Image of God. But God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9b)
Repentance followed by forgiveness and the indwelling of the Spirit of Christ REESTABLISHES the Image of God in man. This is also called the Second Birth because it is a birth of the Spirit of God. It is THIS Image of God that saves us from death and the ravages of SIN.
Again, not all have it. Jesus said there would be few that find it. (Matthew 7:14) It isn't automatic and it isn't for everyone. Indeed most reject it. (John 3:19)
Jesus and the apostles insisted upon the necessity of the Second Birth. With it we live. Without it our destiny is the same as any roadkill on the county highway. In my opinion the Second Birth is the greatest miracle since creation itself.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft.....
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On the contrary, I've been considering it long and hard. I believe you are on to something, as I've indicated to you, at least in principle, but am trying to sort out the meat from the bones. We are told to test all things, so we shouldn't protest so much or take it personally when our doctrine gets examined.
I'll ignore what you are once again ascribing to me personally as I haven't taken any early exit and you ought to know that by now by what we have discussed.
But it's so important that we have and keep the right foundation......it's your understanding of that part which is so problematic.......the Lord showed me in spirit one time that the fullness comes from the same deposit we have received. Fountain of the deep broken up and shooting upward. Deep calling unto deep.
You didn't respond to the word that I shared by a brother in Africa. Thought it went right along with this subject and could help to get us going in that direction where we might have found at least some agreement.
I see the difference. Its you who sees no difference. You make no distinction between what is holy and what is not.
I'm totally open to discussing the deeper things of God. But I disconnect when a blatant unbelief or disregard for holy things seeps into the discussion. There is a judgment coming...a hard judgment on believers. And I want to distance myself from those who foolishly invite wrath onto themselves. There's no need of it.
You don't see how you have taken an early exit. But when we assume or presume something that stops us from being humble or God-fearing...then we lack the uprightness to come before the Lord. David was a man after God's heart...so sensitive to God. And he prayed that he would be saved from presumptuous sins. Those sins, dear sister, cause people to be permanently cut-off from God. They offend God's holiness.
Notice how the Pharisees...being good men otherwise...but claimed to "see" in the face of their blindness...and in the face of the Lord. Jesus said..."your sin remains"...and this was to their condemnation. It may seem like a small thing to people...but naming and claiming to be something you are not (or not yet) is damnable to God. Hence, I point it out.
The foundation we build on is Christ....not "Christ in you" but Christ Himself. Where HE is. He is the cornerstone...not you or what is in you. The error may seem subtle to you....but it isn't. It's enough for judgment.
God has no choice but to judge righteously. He gives grace to the humble...but He resists the proud (with their assuming and presuming) I'm waiting for you to have an "AHA! moment.
Once you understand you will leave the rich sounding high fallutin claims behind and embrace righteousness, uprightness and humility. It's a beautiful thing really.Jesus IS our reward. Not some assumed status. We ought only to claim to be unprofitable servants. When HE is pleased THEN He visits us! But most disconnect from truth, reality, honesty and righteousness...way before that is possible.
I'm not looking to negotiate what the truth is. I know what we are called to. If a brother is called to that in Africa...so be it. What you find helpful may be beneficial to you. And if that takes you to God and leads to real repentance and transformation...then amen!
Unless you had a specific point the brother was making?????
Johann
Well-Known Member
Neglecting conditions?
But what does it say? "The Dvar is near you, in your MOUTH and in your HEART " [DEVARIM 30:14]. That is, the Dvar of Emunah which we proclaim.
But the Davar is very near unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy lev, that thou mayest do it.
Deu 30:15 See, I have set before thee today HaChayyim and HaTov, and Mavet and Rah;
Because if you make hoda'ah (confession) "with your PEH" of Adoneinu Yehoshua, and have emunah "in your LEV" that G-d raised him from the Mesim, you will be delivered.
For with the "heart" one has emunah unto being YITZDAK IM HASHEM and with the "mouth" hoda'ah is made unto Yeshu'at Eloheinu.
For the Kitvei Hakodesh says, "Everyone who has emunah in Him shall not be put to shame" [YESHAYAH 28:16].
For there is no distinction between Yehudi and Yevani [cf 3:9], for the same one is Adon Echad l'chulam (one L-rd over all), rich to all who call upon Him.
For V'HAYAH KOL ASHER YIKRA B'SHEM ADONOI ("Everyone whoever calls upon the Name of the L-rd" YOEL 3:5 [2:32]) shall be delivered.
Yiddish, a hint.
Rom 10:5 For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them.
Rom 10:6 But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down)
Rom 10:7 “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).
Rom 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim);
Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.”
Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him.
Rom 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
What is the gospel we promulgate?
1Co 15:1 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand,
1Co 15:2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,
1Co 15:5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
1Co 15:6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.
1Co 15:7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.
1Co 15:8 Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.
1Co 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
1Co 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me.
1Co 15:11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.
1Co_4:1-2, 1Co_11:2, 1Co_11:23; Eze_3:17; Mat_20:18-19; Mar_16:15-16; Luk_24:46-47; Gal_1:12
Mat_26:28; Rom_3:25, Rom_4:25; 2Co_5:21; Gal_1:4, Gal_3:13; Eph_1:7, Eph_5:2; Heb_10:11-12; 1Pe_2:24, 1Pe_3:18; 1Jn_2:2; Rev_1:5
Gen_3:15; Psa_22:1-31, Psa_69:1-36; Isa_53:1-12; Dan_9:24-26; Zec_13:7; Luk_24:26-27, Luk_24:46; Act_3:18, Act_26:22-23; 1Pe_1:11, 1Pe_2:24
No "pretentions" going on here, as it stands written, Perfect Tense, the message of the CROSS is to WHOMSOEVER!
but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles,
For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
For he was crucified in weakness, but lives by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but in dealing with you we will live with him by the power of God.
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
Why can't you accept the Scriptures as written? You have potential, like a rough diamond, but a potential you have, IF you hearken to the warnings from genuine born from above, sealed by the Ruach HaKodesh believers in Christ on this Forum, and come out from your stupor so that your disciple may see the light.
Another point, we don't "follow" strange voices in the wilderness, but having sweet fellowship with other believers, no room for pride or boasting.
J.
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Only a prided filled fool would ever say that they have any "righteousness" of their own to "throw away" when the NT says that "all have sinned".
Its is because you have no righteousness of your own, Episkopos, tho your carnality heartily disagrees, per post....that Jesus came to die for you so that God could give you..."the GIFT of Righteousness".
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Paul teaches against you.
Paul teaches the opposite, Episkopos.
Paul teaches that "I can do all things through Christ"., and its not Paul who lives but Christ who lives IN PAUL who is the power.
You have it exactly backwards., as everything you teach is built on SELF.
You just said..>the foundation WE build"...but WE dont build anything.. .We are "IN Christ'....>He is not under your foot, as that "whipping boy", blasphemy.
Its """ WE who are weak but CHRIST who is Strong""
There is our power........and that is not your self righteousness that you teach as "christianity"..., Episkopos.
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Johann
Well-Known Member
Looks like you want to target God-fearing women to your "higher walk" and "eternal conscious" which is foreign to ScripturesThe foundation we build on is Christ....not "Christ in you" but Christ Himself. Where HE is. He is the cornerstone...not you or what is in you. The error may seem subtle to you....but it isn't. It's enough for judgment.
God has no choice but to judge righteously. He gives grace to the humble...but He resists the proud (with their assuming and presuming) I'm waiting for you to have an "AHA! moment.
Jesus IS our reward. Not some assumed status. We ought only to claim to be unprofitable servants. When HE is pleased THEN He visits us! But most disconnect from truth, reality, honesty and righteousness...way before that is possible.
to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
Psa_1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
J.
Johann
Well-Known Member
I fear he can't see the wood from the trees, his "brand" of doctrine thoroughly debunked, yet persist in his folly.
J.
Johann
Well-Known Member
Heteros, backwards.....
Col_1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Col_3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
You are digging a hole for yourself, what you are saying is diametrically OPPOSED to what stands written "Christ IN you" Christos en humin hē elpis tēs doxēs, you are in serious error.
Did there have to be a specific point????? How about fellowship, rejoicing in the truth, enjoying someone else's revelation, things like that.I'm totally open to discussing the deeper things of God. But I disconnect when a blatant unbelief or disregard for holy things seeps into the discussion. There is a judgment coming...a hard judgment on believers. And I want to distance myself from those who foolishly invite wrath onto themselves. There's no need of it.
You don't see how you have taken an early exit. But when we assume or presume something that stops us from being humble or God-fearing...then we lack the uprightness to come before the Lord. David was a man after God's heart...so sensitive to God. And he prayed that he would be saved from presumptuous sins. Those sins, dear sister, cause people to be permanently cut-off from God. They offend God's holiness.
Notice how the Pharisees...being good men otherwise...but claimed to "see" in the face of their blindness...and in the face of the Lord. Jesus said..."your sin remains"...and this was to their condemnation. It may seem like a small thing to people...but naming and claiming to be something you are not (or not yet) is damnable to God. Hence, I point it out.
The foundation we build on is Christ....not "Christ in you" but Christ Himself. Where HE is. He is the cornerstone...not you or what is in you. The error may seem subtle to you....but it isn't. It's enough for judgment.
God has no choice but to judge righteously. He gives grace to the humble...but He resists the proud (with their assuming and presuming) I'm waiting for you to have an "AHA! moment.
Jesus IS our reward. Not some assumed status. We ought only to claim to be unprofitable servants. When HE is pleased THEN He visits us! But most disconnect from truth, reality, honesty and righteousness...way before that is possible.
I'm not looking to negotiate what the truth is. I know what we are called to. If a brother is called to that in Africa...so be it. What you find helpful may be beneficial to you. And if that takes you to God and leads to real repentance and transformation...then amen!
Unless you had a specific point the brother was making?????
Never mind brother, the Lord was faithful and kind to be showing me things before you came along, He will continue to feed me and show me the way. A lot of what you were talking about is not new to me, except you are off base in some important foundational things.
Maybe it's a problem understanding on a spiritual level. For example I noticed you don't understand how it is that God has already sanctified and glorified us in the past tense, that is, those He foreknew. Maybe you're not getting the "yes but not yet" concept. Oh well we are all works in progress.
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