What Does the Bible Really Teach About Jesus and his Relationship with his Father ?

[rebuilder 454]

Would you like to read in a good concordance what the word “theos” (god) means?

According to Strongs, the primary definition of “theos” is...

1. “a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities.”

So calling anyone “theos” is not calling them God with a capital “G”.
In Greek Jehovah was addressed as “ho theos”, because the Greek gods all had names, but the God of the Jews was at that time nameless. For an invalid reason the Jewish leaders had forbidden the people to utter the divine name out loud...substituting the title “Adonai” (Lord) instead. To distinguish this nameless God in writing they used the term “ho theos” meaning “THE God” of the Jews.

And since the Greek has no upper or lower case letters, the capitalisation of the word translated “god” is misleading...put there by trinitarian translators.

Human judges in Israel were called “gods” by Jehovah himself....(John 10:31-36)
Satan is called “theos” in 2 Cor 4:4....angels are also called “theos” because the word can refer to God, or to any divine personage, or to those divinely appointed to a certain role.

Thomas was not calling Jesus, “Jehovah”.....because the apostles as a collective clearly stated who was their God in 1 Cor 8:5-6....
“For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6  there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.”

Jesus was their “Lord” (“kyrios” meaning...”he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord ) so.....not their God.


No Scripture says so, unless you can provide a direct statement from either Jehovah or his son that this is true. Twisting Scripture to suggest it is not the same as a direct statement....no doctrine can be based on suggestion...it has to be established fact.....the trinity is not Scriptural.

I can give you many reasons why Jesus cannot be God...one being in the same chapter of John 1, in verse 18....
“No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God (monogenes theos) who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.” (NASB)

If ‘no one has ever seen God’...how many people saw Jesus?

How is God “begotten”?

“Monogenes” means an “only child” and is used elsewhere in Scripture to refer to children with no siblings.
Jesus had siblings. How is he then “only begotten”?

And if God is an immortal, how can he die? Can mere humans kill God?

There are many more questions that raise many more questions....the Bible says nothing about a three in one god who can be in three different places at the same time.....talk to one another.....have different opinions....and know things that the others don’t...

QUOTE
""I can give you many reasons why Jesus cannot be God...one being in the same chapter of John 1, in verse 18....
“No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God (monogenes theos) who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”"

Lol
Moses spoke to Him face to face.

You really should read a good bible and get full of God's word instead of obsessing over proving the bible wrong .

 

[rebuilder 454]

Autie QUOTE,
""I can give you many reasons why Jesus cannot be God...one being in the same chapter of John 1, in verse 18....""

Looks like the watchtower mule of error carried you into the wilderness and died on you.
Leaving you stranded in a horrible doctrine attacking the character and testimony of Jesus.

It is not coming up with all cunning devices to rewrite the bible your mind rebels against.

The actual dynamic is that IT HAD TO BE GOD ON THE CROSS.
Not one man on the planet is spotless.
Not one man on the planet could resurrect himself.

Jesus said "I am the resurrection"
Jesus said "destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up again"
Then, for watchtowers, the Holy Spirit added: "Jesus was speaking of His OWN RESURRECTION."
( Inserted by the Holy Spirit TO REFUTE FUTURE WATCHTOWER ATTACKS on Jesus'
Person and testimony)

Watchtower.
The enemy of the cross, Jesus, and the resurrection.

Imagine a bible so precise, the most crafty watchtower doctors fail miserably to reframe it to their own erroneous fake bible and doctrine.

Watchtower is the emptiness wagon of all the cults.

A babe with a bible knows their counterfeit religion is a fake.

 

[JesusFan]

UH-OH Aunty
you did acknowledge CHRIST in the CENTER of the THRONE where the CENTER of all of Heaven worships

Jesus as the Lamb received praise and worship along with the Father in heaven in Revelation

 

[JesusFan]

Would you like to read in a good concordance what the word “theos” (god) means?

According to Strongs, the primary definition of “theos” is...

1. “a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities.”

So calling anyone “theos” is not calling them God with a capital “G”.
In Greek Jehovah was addressed as “ho theos”, because the Greek gods all had names, but the God of the Jews was at that time nameless. For an invalid reason the Jewish leaders had forbidden the people to utter the divine name out loud...substituting the title “Adonai” (Lord) instead. To distinguish this nameless God in writing they used the term “ho theos” meaning “THE God” of the Jews.

And since the Greek has no upper or lower case letters, the capitalisation of the word translated “god” is misleading...put there by trinitarian translators.

Human judges in Israel were called “gods” by Jehovah himself....(John 10:31-36)
Satan is called “theos” in 2 Cor 4:4....angels are also called “theos” because the word can refer to God, or to any divine personage, or to those divinely appointed to a certain role.

Thomas was not calling Jesus, “Jehovah”.....because the apostles as a collective clearly stated who was their God in 1 Cor 8:5-6....
“For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6  there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.”

Jesus was their “Lord” (“kyrios” meaning...”he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord ) so.....not their God.


No Scripture says so, unless you can provide a direct statement from either Jehovah or his son that this is true. Twisting Scripture to suggest it is not the same as a direct statement....no doctrine can be based on suggestion...it has to be established fact.....the trinity is not Scriptural.

I can give you many reasons why Jesus cannot be God...one being in the same chapter of John 1, in verse 18....
“No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God (monogenes theos) who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.” (NASB)

If ‘no one has ever seen God’...how many people saw Jesus?

How is God “begotten”?

“Monogenes” means an “only child” and is used elsewhere in Scripture to refer to children with no siblings.
Jesus had siblings. How is he then “only begotten”?

And if God is an immortal, how can he die? Can mere humans kill God?

There are many more questions that raise many more questions....the Bible says nothing about a three in one god who can be in three different places at the same time.....talk to one another.....have different opinions....and know things that the others don’t...

Theos in the Greek NT usually refers to the one true God; in a very few contexts it refers to a (pagan) god or goddess.
So you choose, Jesus is either Called Jehoivah there, or else a pagan god, so why would even be in the bible?

 

[David in NJ]

Jesus as the Lamb received praise and worship along with the Father in heaven in Revelation

JESUS as the LAMB and MORE

Always know this from Genesis 1:1

In the beginning
בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית (bə·rê·šîṯ)
Preposition-b | Noun - feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 7225: 1) first, beginning, best, chief 1a) beginning 1b) first 1c) chief 1d) choice part

God
אֱלֹהִ֑ים (’ĕ·lō·hîm)
Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 430: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God

Gen 1:26 - Elohim said let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness = Plural Spoken 3 times

Without THREE, no one could be SAVED

SHALOM

 

[Aunty Jane]

Wow
Is heaven and God ever confused inside watchtower walls.

Wow, out of what I said, this is all you can manage? A weak reply to the Scripture presented?
Where is your Scriptural response?

FYI The Watchtower is a printing facility used by Jehovah’s Witnesses to print and distribute Bibles and Bible literature all over the world.....it is a legal entity required by Law.

You guys have Thomas worshipping some "entity" of Jesus, as correct.

LOL....really? Since Thomas called Jesus “theos”, but not “ho theos”, he was not “worshipping” Jesus at all but correctly calling him a “divine mighty one”...”a god-like” one. That is the primary meaning of “theos”.

If God himself can call his human judges “gods” (theos) in John 10:31-26, then the word doesn’t just mean “Jehovah”, does it? Satan is called “theos” in 2 Cor 4:4.....we know what kind of god he wants to be....one who has been lying from the beginning.....and he has the majority travelling the wrong road. (Matt 7:13-14)

Was Thomas in disagreement with all the other apostles who plainly said that their “one God” was “the Father” and that Jesus was their “one Lord” (another word that doesn’t just mean “God”) (1 Cor 8:5-6)

Where is the “entity of Jesus” and where did I ever mention such a thing....?

Do you know what a straw man is? That’s where you create an argument that doesn’t exist, and then seek to strike down your own argument. Well done...

Give me a break.
Your cult is so busted it is getting ridiculous.

What cult do you belong to? Why don’t you give us all a break and climb down off your high horse and just defend your own beliefs without the sarcasm and misrepresentation? The tactic of someone who has no defence is to attack...well done again. One wonders what it is that you are ‘rebuilding’?

What about your blatant attack on Jesus as being created?
Then the bible says " all things were created by Him"

So watchtower cult has Jesus creating himself.

You’re hilarious....the strawmen just keep coming....
The Bible says Jesus was created....I provided the Scripture, yet you select a few words out of Scripture to prove otherwise....

Learn something.....verses or selected parts of them, taken out of context, don’t even amount to a hill of beans.

We have scriptures that speak of the Son’s role in creation....long before he became Jesus the Christ, he was co-Creator with his Father. God’s “firstborn” Son.
Who was God talking to in Genesis?...himself?

But then we have John 1:2-3, right after the verse everyone thinks is unassailable, yet it is a mistranslation as the Greek clearly shows....
Speaking of “the Word”....it says...
“He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.” (NASB)

What are you missing here?

Do you know what “agency” is? It is one person representing another and acting on their behalf.....we all know what an “agent “ is.....the Son became his Father’s agent in rescuing the human race from the folly of disobedience and the abuse of free will.

First of all, an eternal God had no “beginning” so what is this “the beginning” of? Creation...and the very first of God’s creations was his Son....”begotten” by his Father alone.....the only direct creation of his God, who remains his “God” for all eternity. “All creation came “through” him. (agency)

Rev 3:14, written well after his return to heaven, Jesus identifies himself as “The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God”...(NASB)

And a couple of verses before that Jesus says....
“He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.” (v 12 NASB)

How is the Father still the God of Jesus even in heaven? Your God is the one you worship....does Jesus worship himself? And why does God need a “new name”?

Col 1:15-17 also demonstrates the same statement.....
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.” (ESV)

“The firstborn of all creation”.....and the one “through” whom “all things” came into existence. (agency)

Why can’t you let the Bible speak for itself? What have I twisted with quotes from my own Bible?

Unless you can address something in Scripture to show a direct statement from either God or his Son that they are equal parts of one God.....you have no argument...just empty criticisms of things you clearly haven’t studied.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jesus as the Lamb received praise and worship along with the Father in heaven in Revelation

Well, the lamb receives praise and honor, but worship belongs only to God.
In heaven the Father is still the “God” of Jesus.....
Rev 3:12...Jesus said....
“He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.” (NASB)

Please explain....how does one equal part of God worship himself even in heaven....?
The lamb is shown to be worshipping the one he shares the throne with.

 

[Aunty Jane]

God
אֱלֹהִ֑ים (’ĕ·lō·hîm)
Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 430: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God

Gen 1:26 - Elohim said let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness = Plural Spoken 3 times

Seriously David...do you even read what you post?

What is the stated meaning of “El·o·himʹ”?
Read it for yourself.....
Are you seeing what I am seeing?....obviously not.

It says that the meaning of “God”(El·o·himʹ) in Hebrew is...
1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God.

Showing that to call someone “El·o·himʹ” can mean any of those definitions. You highlighted the meanings yourself in the mistaken notion that this definition fits your doctrine.....I assure you...it doesn’t.

Gen 1:26 is God speaking with his Son as co-Creator.....a “God-like” or “divine one”, who is using the power of his Father’s Holy Spirit to accomplish the will of his God in bringing about something that was not only created by him but “for” him. Is this something God says about himself?

Col 1:15-17...
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.” (ESV)

Doesn’t that make creation a gift of God to his precious son?...something he helped to create? (Prov 8: 22-31) Jesus is said to be “the wisdom of God”. (1 Cor 1:24)

 

[David in NJ]

Seriously David...do you even read what you post?

What is the stated meaning of “El·o·himʹ”?
Read it for yourself.....
Are you seeing what I am seeing?....obviously not.

It says that the meaning of “God”(El·o·himʹ) in Hebrew is...
1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God.

Showing that to call someone “El·o·himʹ” can mean any of those definitions. You highlighted the meanings yourself in the mistaken notion that this definition fits your doctrine.....I assure you...it doesn’t.

Gen 1:26 is God speaking with his Son as co-Creator.....a “God-like” or “divine one”, who is using the power of his Father’s Holy Spirit to accomplish the will of his God in bringing about something that was not only created by him but “for” him. Is this something God says about himself?

Col 1:15-17...
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.” (ESV)

Doesn’t that make creation a gift of God to his precious son?...something he helped to create? (Prov 8: 22-31) Jesus is said to be “the wisdom of God”. (1 Cor 1:24)

The TRUTH of GOD is CHRIST

Without THREE, you/AuntyJane CANNOT be SAVED

No one is SAVED apart from the THREE; who are Ecahd Elohim

Right now you have the same blindfold over your mind as the Jews who rejects their MESSIAH = SAME as jw's

 

[Aunty Jane]

The TRUTH of GOD is CHRIST

Without THREE, you/AuntyJane CANNOT be SAVED

David, there is no three....”Jehovah is one” (Deut 6:4) and always has been. Jesus is what he called himself.
Read John 10:31-36 and see that when he had ample opportunity to confess his true identity he didn’t say that he was “God”. He spoke only the truth....that he is, was, and always will be, God’s “only begotten son”.

No one is SAVED apart from the THREE; who are Ecahd Elohim

The plural of majesty isn’t more than one god. You have three gods, distinct and different to the supposed “others” in this triad. Is it three gods or three heads....either way it does not describe the God for whom Jesus is a “holy servant”. (Acts 4:27, 30)

Right now you have the same blindfold over your mind as the Jews who rejects their MESSIAH = SAME as jw's

Sorry mate...that’s the pot calling the kettle black....what if you are the ones blindfolded?....(2 Cor 4:3-4) and that this doctrine you uphold is a breach of the first Commandment......the early church having played the old switcheroo with God, making him into something neither the Scriptures, nor the Son ever mention?

No one could check the Bible to see for themselves what it taught about the relationship of God and his Son. The church forbade it. Ever wonder why “sola scriptura” was decried? They knew that the Bible didn’t support their doctrines. They did what the Jews did to the ones God sent to correct them...they silenced them. They got away with murder, literally for centuries!

The RCC is the “mother ship” from which all of Christendom sprang. If your beliefs came from them, then you are just falling for the same lies under a different banner.

Beware of over-confidence (1 Cor 10:12) .....what you have been led to believe from infancy is an ancient lie...one among many, but unless God opens the heart, the stubbornness of the goats will be the main trait in those who can’t back up what they believe.....it’s not Scriptural defence, but just empty protests....

What if Christendom has you worshipping the wrong god?...satan knows...it’s his greatest deception....and he counts on ignorance and gullibility. How did he deceive the woman in Eden? He lied about God...he is still lying and the majority believe him. This is why “few” are on the road to life”....satan has the majority travelling the wrong road ....please find the exit before it’s too late.

 

[David in NJ]

David, there is no three....”Jehovah is one” (Deut 6:4) and always has been. Jesus is what he called himself.
Read John 10:31-36 and see that when he had ample opportunity to confess his true identity he didn’t say that he was “God”. He spoke only the truth....that he is, was, and always will be, God’s “only begotten son”.

The plural of majesty isn’t more than one god. You have three gods, distinct and different to the supposed “others” in this triad. Is it three gods or three heads....either way it does not describe the God for whom Jesus is a “holy servant”. (Acts 4:27, 30)

Sorry mate...that’s the pot calling the kettle black....what if you are the ones blindfolded?....(2 Cor 4:3-4) and that this doctrine you uphold is a breach of the first Commandment......the early church having played the old switcheroo with God, making him into something neither the Scriptures, nor the Son ever mention?

No one could check the Bible to see for themselves what it taught about the relationship of God and his Son. The church forbade it. Ever wonder why “sola scriptura” was decried? They knew that the Bible didn’t support their doctrines. They did what the Jews did to the ones God sent to correct them...they silenced them. They got away with murder, literally for centuries!

The RCC is the “mother ship” from which all of Christendom sprang. If your beliefs came from them, then you are just falling for the same lies under a different banner.

Beware of over-confidence (1 Cor 10:12) .....what you have been led to believe from infancy is an ancient lie...one among many, but unless God opens the heart, the stubbornness of the goats will be the main trait in those who can’t back up what they believe.....it’s not Scriptural defence, but just empty protests....

What if Christendom has you worshipping the wrong god?...satan knows...it’s his greatest deception....and he counts on ignorance and gullibility. How did he deceive the woman in Eden? He lied about God...he is still lying and the majority believe him. This is why “few” are on the road to life”....satan has the majority travelling the wrong road ....please find the exit before it’s too late.

Uh-Oh Aunty

You will Find at the CENTER of God's Throne = The TRUTH of GOD is CHRIST

 

[Archie]

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 10:30
I and my Father are one.

John 10:33
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

John 14:8-9
Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

1 Corinthians 8:6
...yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

Isaiah 44:6
Thus says Yahweh, the King of Israel and his Redeemer,
Yahweh of hosts:
‘I am the first, and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.

Revelation 22:13
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.


2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Uh-Oh Aunty

You will Find at the CENTER of God's Throne = The TRUTH of GOD is CHRIST

Uh-Oh David....you are not reading what is written to you.....fingers planted in ears will not save anyone....
Read the Scriptures if you are not afraid to....
You don’t “know” God or his Christ at all.....(John 17:3)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 10:30
I and my Father are one.

John 10:33
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

John 14:8-9
Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

1 Corinthians 8:6
...yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

Isaiah 44:6
Thus says Yahweh, the King of Israel and his Redeemer,
Yahweh of hosts:
‘I am the first, and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.

Revelation 22:13
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.


2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

None of those cut and pasted Scriptures say anything about a three in one godhead. Nor is the relationship of Jesus to his Father ever stated to be what Christendom teaches.
Many of those verses actually say the opposite of what you are suggesting as their meaning....I have dealt with them all more times than I can count.

Read the scriptures already quoted in this thread .....they will undo all of the misinterpretation of what you inferred by your quotes.
If you are going to contribute to a thread, please at least read what is written, as it is tedious to keep repeating things for those who haven’t taken the time to read what has already been stated.

 

[David in NJ]

None of those cut and pasted Scriptures say anything about a three in one godhead. Nor is the relationship of Jesus to his Father ever stated to be what Christendom teaches.
Many of those verses actually say the opposite of what you are suggesting as their meaning....I have dealt with them all more times than I can count.

Read the scriptures already quoted in this thread .....they will undo all of the misinterpretation of what you inferred by your quotes.
If you are going to contribute to a thread, please at least read what is written, as it is tedious to keep repeating things for those who haven’t taken the time to read what has already been stated.

Uh-Oh Aunty....you are not reading what is written to you.....
fingers planted in ears will not save you

Reading the Scriptures is NOT enough to save anyone and especially you

If you knew LORD JESUS CHRIST you would know His FATHER = John 8:19

 

[Archie]

Leave the presence of a fool,
for there you do not find words of knowledge.
It is the wisdom of the clever to understand where they go,
but the folly of fools misleads.
Proverbs 14

And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
1 Timothy 2

Why do the nations rage
And the peoples meditate on a vain thing?
The kings of the earth take their stand
And the rulers take counsel together
Against Yahweh and against His Anointed, saying,
“Let us tear their fetters apart
And cast away their cords from us!”
He who sits in the heavens laughs,
The Lord mocks them.
Psalm 2

 

[Jack]

This was a response from another thread that was being shut down at the poster’s request, but I wanted to respond in a forum that accepts “unorthodox” views to show how the Bible describes our Lord Jesus and his relationship with his superior Father.

Is this a mistranslation? What does this verse say in Greek?

Look up “theos” in an Interlinear or concordance.....we have been through this before....”theos” doesn’t just mean YHWH...Yahweh/Jehovah.
Another way to translate John 1:1 accurately would be to identifyYahweh in that verse and then to identify who the other “theos” is.
It should read....
“In the beginning was the Word, (ho logos) and the Word was with Yahweh (ho theos) and the Word was divine (theos)”.

The way this verse is translated in most Bibles, is not saying what many think it is.......but is in disagreement with Paul’s Statement when speaking collectively for all the apostles....
1 Cor 8:5-6 ESV...he said....
“For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.”

Scripture explains Scripture. It also explains what Thomas said in identifying his Lord Jesus as “theos”....
The Bible describes holy ones like angels, and even the judges in Israel (whom Yahweh himself called “gods”) as “theos”. (John 10:31-36)

As the saying goes, David.... “a little knowledge is a dangerous thing”.
Studying “theology” is vastly different from studying the Bible....you must understand the difference.

(Underlining mine for reference)
I love it when Scripture is misinterpreted because then you can show the readers here what the Bible really says as opposed to what the church insists that it says....

Let’s unpack what it really says....

Jesus prayed....to his Father who was in heaven, whilst he was still on the earth. (One wonders how a single god can talk to his equal self, whilst he is far removed from his actual presence) Can one god be in two or three places at the same time and talk to one another?....have different opinions.....and know things the others don’t?
Sounds most illogical, especially when there is no direct statement that the three are one God.

If Jesus is equally “God” with his Father, why is it necessary for the Father to glorify his son, and to “grant” him “authority over all people”.....God already has authority over all people.

“so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him.”
Why did the Father need to “give” his son (his equal self) the ability to give eternal life to those who followed him?
If he was God, he could do that himself.

“Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.”
So knowing God AND the one he sent is vital for eternal life.....why don’t we equally have to “know” the Holy Spirit? “He” is not mentioned.....why? And if the God we “know” (have been led to believe) is not the true God...What then?

“I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do.”
Whose work was Jesus doing? He was on assignment, but who sent him? Who gave him his assignment so that the apostles could call Jesus “God’s holy servant”? (Acts 4:27, 30)....is this calling him “God”?

“And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.”
This is a request for something to be reinstated.....a glory that the Son had “with” his Father “before the world existed”....a time when he existed before everything else.
At Col 1:15, Paul calls Jesus “the firstborn of all creation”...and Rev 3:14 Jesus calls himself, “the beginning of God’s creation”.
These are clear statements, not suggestions. They just don’t fit with this widely accepted but unproven church doctrine....yet there cannot be a contradiction. God’s word does not lie.


Words in brackets added by me for simplification.....
It was the Word (ho logos) who became flesh, not God (ho theos) The Greek makes clear what the flawed English translation does not.....theological bias at work...unless you study the Greek with an Interlinear, you will never see it.

Wow!...how do you think that applies here? Who is our Christian “brother”? One who believes a different truth to what we do? Paul argues with you.....

“I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. . . . What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? (1 Cor 1:10-13 ESV)

And if you argue with me, and hold views that I cannot find in Scripture because I have studied the Bible carefully (apart from church theology), then we cannot be “brethren”....so, whose ideas do you subscribe to David? Whose “brand” of theology do you accept?...and why?

We are separating ourselves in this “time of the end” when Christ is due to appear as the judge of all of us.....and only two categories exist...”sheep” and “goats”....so we are all in either one or the other....
By what we accept as truth, we are judged accordingly. What trait are “goats” notorious for? I have goats, so I see this first hand.....stubborn!....with no concept that they might be standing in your way....you have to push them or they won’t move. Think about that.....

Aunty thinks she's a Greek expert because the WatchTower told her she is. Even tho every English Bible says Aunty is wrong.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Uh-Oh Aunty....you are not reading what is written to you.....
fingers planted in ears will not save you

Reading the Scriptures is NOT enough to save anyone and especially you

If you knew LORD JESUS CHRIST you would know His FATHER = John 8:19

I have not only read it...I have studied it......so, David, we will never agree.....I can let Jesus do the judging.....what about you?

The God and Father of Jesus Christ has appointed him to judge all of us.
He knows what we do not....I trust him...remember Matt 7:21-23 and 1 Cor 10:12....

 

[Aunty Jane]

Leave the presence of a fool,
for there you do not find words of knowledge.
It is the wisdom of the clever to understand where they go,
but the folly of fools misleads.
Proverbs 14

And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
1 Timothy 2

Why do the nations rage
And the peoples meditate on a vain thing?
The kings of the earth take their stand
And the rulers take counsel together
Against Yahweh and against His Anointed, saying,
“Let us tear their fetters apart
And cast away their cords from us!”
He who sits in the heavens laughs,
The Lord mocks them.
Psalm 2

Whoops wounded ego.....and you even played the chauvinist card.....and with Scripture! tsk tsk....

 

[Archie]

Encyclopedia Britannica
Jehovah’s Witness, member of a Christian-based new religious movement that developed within the larger 19th-century Adventist movement in the United States and has since spread worldwide. The Jehovah’s Witnesses are an outgrowth of the International Bible Students Association, which was founded in 1872 in Pittsburgh by Charles Taze Russell. Their belief in the impending end of the world, millennialism, is combined with a creed of non-Trinitarianism—a rejection of the Christian Trinity—and a restorationist goal of returning Christianity to the focus and practices of Christ’s followers that Jehovah Witnesses believe were lost after the death of the apostles. They are popularly known for their door-to-door evangelism, called witnessing, as well as their rejection of traditional Christian holidays and birthdays.

History​

The Adventist movement emerged in the 1830s around the predictions of William Miller, who proclaimed that Jesus Christ would return in 1843 or 1844. When Christ did not return as Miller had prophesied, Adventists divided into a number of factions. During the 1870s, Charles Taze Russell established himself as an independent and controversial Adventist teacher. He rejected belief in hell as a place of eternal torment and adopted a non-Trinitarian theology that denied the divinity of Jesus. He also interpreted the Second Coming in accordance with the literal translation of the original Greek term, parousia (“presence”), suggesting that Christ would come as an invisible presence and that the Parousia, or “Millennial Dawn,” already had occurred, in 1874. The coming of Christ’s invisible presence signaled the end of the current order of society and would be followed by his visible presence and the establishment of the millennial kingdom on earth in 1914. Although the kingdom did not come, Russell’s teachings motivated a number of volunteers to circulate his many books and pamphlets and a periodical, The Watchtower, and to recalculate the time of the Parousia.​

In addition to the International Bible Students Association, Russell formed the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania (1884), with himself as president. In 1909 he transferred the headquarters of the movement to Brooklyn.
Russell was succeeded as president in 1917 by Joseph Franklin Rutherford (Judge Rutherford; 1869–1942), who changed the group’s name to Jehovah’s Witnesses in 1931 to emphasize its members’ belief that Jehovah, or Yahweh, is the true God and that the Witnesses were his specially chosen followers. Rutherford molded the Witnesses into a cadre of dedicated evangelists, even equipping members with portable phonographs to play his “sermonettes” on street corners and in the living rooms of prospective converts. Under Rutherford’s leadership, Russell’s group became a tightly knit organization.
Areas Of Involvement: Christianity

Rutherford’s successor, Nathan Homer Knorr (1905–77), assumed the presidency in 1942 and continued and expanded Rutherford’s policies. He established the Watch Tower Bible School of Gilead (South Lansing, New York) to train missionaries and leaders, decreed that all the society’s books and articles were to be published anonymously, and set up adult lay-education programs to train Witnesses to teach prospective converts. Under Knorr’s direction, a group of Witnesses produced a new translation of the Bible. Knorr was followed as president of the Jehovah’s Witnesses by Frederick W. Franz (1893–1992) in 1978 and then by Milton G. Henschel in 1992 (1920–2003). In 2000 Henschel stepped down in a reorganization of the leadership and was replaced by Don A. Adams. The movement’s headquarters were transferred to Warwick, New York, in 2016.

Beliefs and practices
Witnesses hold a number of traditional Christian views but also many that are unique to them. They affirm that God—Jehovah—is the most high. Jesus Christ is God’s agent, through whom sinful humans can be reconciled to God. The Holy Spirit is the name of God’s active force in the world. Witnesses believe that they are living in the last days, and they look forward to the imminent establishment of God’s kingdom on earth, which will be headed by Christ and jointly administered by 144,000 human corulers (Revelation 7:4). Those who acknowledge Jehovah in this life will become members of the millennial kingdom; those who reject him will not go to hell but will face total extinction.


1 John 2
18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.