What if you lose your faith?

[Ferris Bueller]

Yes it seems your God has a big stick.

My God leaves the 99 and goes after the one who strayed.

There's a heaven of difference between straying because of doubt and straying because of unbelief. God's got the back of the struggling, doubting strayer. Not so much for the Christ rejecting strayer.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So you give no hope for a believer who has fallen in to deception. Paul did in Galatians 5.

I do. I think God, depending on the circumstances, gives the Christian who falls away into unbelief a certain amount of time and space to come back to their senses. Galatians is the very proof of this. How much time? How much space? Depends on the level of conscious unbelief the person has entered into. The Galatians were deceived to some extent. That's a mitigating circumstance.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

He also teaches how to restore those who fell into sin - and didn't consider them as 'of the devil' but cautioned those correcting them to proceed with humble caution in case they fell into sin as well.

So I look for humility when listening to folks expound the Word and assume the role of correcting others...

I'm not sure you're seeing the difference between living in sin in unbelief and struggling in sin in your believing.

 

[marks]

I have complete assurance of my salvation, because I am believing; believing that is evidenced in how I live. Everybody who is believing is saved. Salvation belongs to any and everyone who believes in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin. I am that believing person. Therefore, I am saved. 1 Corinthians 15:2

You wrote, "everyone who is believing is saved."

John 3:3 KJV
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 4:24 KJV
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Romans 8:9 KJV
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Much love!

 

[marks]

teaching acknowledged that a person must continue to believe, or else they were never saved to begin with

This is the Biblical teaching, except, that a person "will" continue to believe, else they were not converted. "Must", as if ongoing salvation depended on ongoing believe, is fully the wrong idea.

You introduce your doubt of the surety of rebirth, where the real question is concerning the authenticity of rebirth. And the Bible tells us that God affirms to us that we are His. He has affirmed that to me and I am certain. And why cast aside the certainty of His salvation, thinking that somehow I might by my doing this or not doing that I'm going to toss it away?

What kind of salvation is that?

God assures us over and over, addressing every objection, if you are willing to just take it all for exactly what it says, and not settling for less.

And one of the most heartfelt concerns we have, our ability to live pure lives, is itself addressed in the knowledge of the certainty of our salvation. He who has this hope purifies himself, even as He is pure.

Jesus is made unto us all that we need, and He will not fail us.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

This is the Biblical teaching, except, that a person "will" continue to believe, else they were not converted.

Just as long as the truth is preserved that a believer must continue to believe I don't care what a person thinks about whether a true believer is able to stop believing or not. What matters is that they do.

"Must", as if ongoing salvation depended on ongoing believe, is fully the wrong idea.

24 As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father.
​

As we can plainly see, salvation does depend on if you let the word of the gospel remain in you. I don't care if someone thinks it WILL remain in them, that doesn't change the necessity for the word of God to remain in them for them to remain in the Son, the Father, and the promise of eternal life.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You introduce your doubt of the surety of rebirth

No, every believing person is born again. All the OSAS thinking you attach to being born again is causing you to think I'm saying the believing person is always in doubt of being born again (because you instantly define 'born again' as 'forever no matter what'). Quite the opposite. There is no doubt of salvation for the believing person in the Biblical doctrine I'm sharing. I'm saying what Paul says: If you are presently believing you are presently saved - 1 Corinthians 15:2 ('hold' and 'saved' are verbs in the present tense).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

where the real question is concerning the authenticity of rebirth.

That's what I've been saying! What matters is that you are really born again. What determines if you are saved is if you are believing, not that you can or can't lose your salvation. The church is majoring in a minor. We need to exhort each other about making sure we really believe and continue to believe so we're ready to meet Jesus when he comes back, not debate whether or not we can lose our salvation. That might be an interesting discussion (sometimes), but it's a meaningless contention.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And the Bible tells us that God affirms to us that we are His.

Nobody's denying that to my knowledge. You don't have to believe in OSAS to have God's affirmation that you are his in salvation. If you are presently believing, you are presently saved. That's what Paul says.

 

[marks]

What matters is that you are really born again. What determines if you are saved is if you are believing, not that you can or can't lose your salvation.

I see what you did there.

You swapped "born again" for "saved".

What determines if you are born again is if in fact you've been born again.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And why cast aside the certainty of His salvation, thinking that somehow I might by my doing this or not doing that I'm going to toss it away?

And that is the question: Why do people cast aside the certainly of God's salvation? And it isn't because they've done something to forfeit it. They've cast it aside in unbelief. The sin associated with that is just the sign that they've gone back to unbelief. Unbelief is how you cast aside the certainty of Christ's everlasting ministry and sacrifice.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What determines if you are born again is if in fact you've been born again.

Okay, how do I know I'm born again? Just because I say so? What does the Bible say about knowing if you're born again?

 

[farouk]

And that is the question: Why do people cast aside the certainly of God's salvation? And it isn't because they've done something to forfeit it. They've cast it aside in unbelief. The sin associated with that is just the sign that they've gone back to unbelief. Unbelief is how you cast aside the certainty of Christ's ministry and sacrifice.

If so, they clearly never truly believed in the first place.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

thinking that somehow I might by my doing this or not doing that I'm going to toss it away?

What kind of salvation is that?

That would be a works centric salvation. I'm talking about tossing it away because of unbelief, not because you're sinning.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If so, they clearly never truly believed in the first place.

Maybe, maybe not.
Jesus talks in terms of the word that is deeply rooted in a person's heart vs. the word that is not, not in terms of word planted vs. no word planted.

 

[marks]

Okay, how do I know I'm born again? Just because I say so? What does the Bible say about knowing if you're born again?

Romans 8:16 KJV
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

1 John 3:24 KJV
And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1 John 4:13 KJV
Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

These passages address your question specifically, this is how we know.

Not because we have some perception/opinion of ourselves in our believing, but because of His Spirit given to us. Because we know Him. How do we know the "Him" we know is in fact God and not a false spirit?

1 John 3:18-19 KJV
18) My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19) And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And one of the most heartfelt concerns we have, our ability to live pure lives, is itself addressed in the knowledge of the certainty of our salvation.

And as I've shown you, you don't have to believe in OSAS to have the assurance and certainty that you are indeed truly born again. And so there is no basis for your argument that there is no ability to live a pure life without the certainly of salvation in what I'm saying, for I'm saying there is indeed certainly of salvation for anyone who is presently believing.

 

[farouk]

Maybe, maybe not.
Jesus talks in terms of the word that is deeply rooted in a person's heart vs. the word that is not, not in terms of word planted vs. no word planted.

@Ferris Bueller The verse on @Eternally Grateful 's avatar is very relevant: the work of grace in the believer's heart is permanent: "He that hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ".

 

[Ferris Bueller]

He who has this hope purifies himself, even as He is pure.

Why do you think you have to believe in OSAS to have hope? If you are presently believing you have the hope of salvation.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Jesus is made unto us all that we need, and He will not fail us.

You are correct, He will not fail us. That's why we should continue to trust and believe in him - Hebrews 4:14, Hebrews 10:23.