What is Mariology?

[Marymog]

@Illuminator @Mungo @Marymog

Why did Jesus not include Mary and his brothers as being his true family?

Matthew 12:46-50
Mark 3:31-35
Luke 8:19-21

Up till this date in Jesus' ministry it isn't looking like Mary is the Mother of God - just saying.

So what you are really saying is that Jesus is not God.

 

[theefaith]

You crack me up.

YOU have decided that @theefaith is trying to understand the Word and YOU can see he has ability but he just needs to ask the right questions
YOU have decided that @Mungo is lost
YOU have decided that @Illuminator assumes he understands Scripture but is not teachable yet



Just to let you know I have not gone missing. I just know there is NOTHING that can be said to you because YOU are not lost YOU understand the Word and YOU know the right questions to ask and YOU understand Scripture and there is nothing that us unteachable peons can teach you....So why should I continue to engage with you since YOU know it all and nothing will change your mind

Keeping it real

In other words I’m a potential Protestant! Lol

 

[Mungo]

I define it as it what it means.

"I don't know what you mean by 'glory,'?" Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't-till I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!'?"
"But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean-neither more nor less."
(Alice Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll)

 

[theefaith]

Perpetual Virginity of Mary!

Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).


Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649) with the jurisdictional authority of Peter and the apostles in holy council! Matt 16:18 18:18 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20 bound on earth bound in heaven!

The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!

And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!

Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)

Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (only Jesus is savior)

Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!

Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)

Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)

Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)

Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!

The Bible says Joseph a just and therefore a chaste man, it does not say he has gone into Mary anywhere in scripture, 2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him. Never says this about a Joseph, for He was full of fear and reverence for Her immaculate purity and holiness! Especially after hearing from an angel that her child was of the Holy Spirit!


For Christ desires all men come out of the camp of heretics into the communion of saints! MAtt 5:14

 

[face2face]

In other words I’m a potential Protestant! Lol

Could be close...keep asking the right questions and who knows what light you might be revealed.

 

[face2face]

So what you are really saying is that Jesus is not God.

The most truthful thing you have said to date. Now can we start?

 

[theefaith]

Could be close...keep asking the right questions and who knows what light you might be revealed.

1. Matthew 5:14
   Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
   
   1 Tim 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
   
   Christ and his church are one acts 9:4

 

[theefaith]

The most truthful thing you have said to date. Now can we start?

the divinity of Christ and the trinity are Christian doctrines if you deny them you deny Christ and cannot be a Christian

 

[face2face]

Catholics,

When it states "she (Mary) contributed everything to the formation of the human nature of Christ"

Does the RCC believe the sperm & egg?

 

[tabletalk]

Also tell me how Matt 28:19-20 is going to be fulfilled?
Only the apostles are commissioned to teach all nations (without error jn 16:13) baptize disciples and bring the salvation of Jesus Christ and Jesus says he is with his apostles till the end so the apostles remain till the end or until he returns

Posts #355 and #356 do nothing to prove Apostolic succession. Did you read the quote from Jerome that I posted? He says an Elder is the same as a Bishop, that it is only tradition and not a command of the Lord that the office of Bishop came to be separated from Elder.

 

[theefaith]

[QUOTE="face2face, post: 1147392, member:

you forgot Mk 10:17 when attacking the mother of God!

 

[theefaith]

Catholics,

When it states "she (Mary) contributed everything to the formation of the human nature of Christ"

Does the RCC believe the sperm & egg?

everything pertaining to his human nature. I would say

 

[theefaith]

Posts #355 and #356 do nothing to prove Apostolic succession. Did you read the quote from Jerome that I posted? He says an Elder is the same as a Bishop, that it is only tradition and not a command of the Lord that the office of Bishop came to be separated from Elder.

what’s the source for that quote

 

[theefaith]

Posts #355 and #356 do nothing to prove Apostolic succession. Did you read the quote from Jerome that I posted? He says an Elder is the same as a Bishop, that it is only tradition and not a command of the Lord that the office of Bishop came to be separated from Elder.

the only valid minister in the church is that of bishop a successor to the apostles having the authority of Christ
Acts 1:20

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

 

[theefaith]

[QUOTE="face2face,


Isa 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.

10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:

11 That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.

12 For thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.

13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem

verse 9 perpetual virgin

 

[face2face]

[QUOTE="face2face, post: 1147392, member:

you forgot Mk 10:17 when attacking the mother of God!

Mark 10:17 Now as Jesus was starting out on his way, someone ran up to him, •fell on his knees, and said, “Good teacher•, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

Do you have the wrong verse?

 

[theefaith]

Mark 10:17 Now as Jesus was starting out on his way, someone ran up to him, •fell on his knees, and said, “Good teacher•, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

Do you have the wrong verse?

sorry I forgot to include vs 18

 

[face2face]

sorry I forgot to include vs 18

Mark 10:18 •Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

Correct, Jesus had no inherent goodness in himself like Yahweh his Father.

It's like Hebrews 5:9 Jesus was "being" perfected - he wasn't perfect, he still had a carnal mind that could sin.

Words like "being made" or "became" show this was something he did NOT previously possess. i.e you cant become perfect, if you were already perfect.

Jesus knew what was in himself, hence the statement, ONLY God is good. John 2:23-25

 

[face2face]

[QUOTE="face2face,
Isa 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:
11 That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.
12 For thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem
verse 9 perpetual virgin

“Would I myself cause to break forth (i.e. the birth process) and not cause (anything) to be born?” (NIV “Do I bring to the moment of birth and not give delivery?”) expresses how illogical these doubts are. A woman does not go into labor, and the amniotic fluid in the birth chamber does not break, if there is no child in the womb (Doh!). So also God does not begin to fulfill his promises about the rebirth of his people Israel without causing that new nation of people to be born. The audience can be sure that the one process leads inevitably to the other.

Did you misquote again? This section of Scripture has nothing do with perpetual virginity.

These questions in Isaiah 66 indicate that God, who has the power to give birth to a new heavens and a new earth and to fulfill his prophesied plans, will not stop in the middle of it so that he does not finish what he promised. God is faithful to do what he says, and his sovereignty is so great that he is able to accomplish what he plans to do. This would comfort all who heard these statements, for they could be assured that these things would happen because God is the one who spoke these promises. Zion will not accomplish these things out of her own determination or willpower; these unusual events will be fulfilled because no one and nothing can stop God from fulfilling his promises.

 

[face2face]

@Mungo I have been doing some reading and I think your position on Mary not sinning but being able to sin is not in line with your Catholic Dogma.

"from the moment of her conception in the womb of her mother, as well as her preservation from the dominion of sin all her earthly life"

All that I am reading suggest Catholics believe she couldn't sin. Which means Jesus wasn't the only firstborn from the dead. If you believe that then your theology is non Scriptural.

"In consequence of a Special Privilege of Grace from God, Mary was free from every personal sin during her whole life. (Sent. fidei proxima.)"

Wow, so many lies on top of lies to arrive there.