What is Mariology?

[Mungo]

@Mungo I have been doing some reading and I think your position on Mary not sinning but being able to sin is not in line with your Catholic Dogma.

"from the moment of her conception in the womb of her mother, as well as her preservation from the dominion of sin all her earthly life"

All that I am reading suggest Catholics believe she couldn't sin. Which means Jesus wasn't the only firstborn from the dead. If you believe that then your theology is non Scriptural.

"In consequence of a Special Privilege of Grace from God, Mary was free from every personal sin during her whole life. (Sent. fidei proxima.)"

Wow, so many lies on top of lies to arrive there.

If you are going to quote what the Catholic Church supposedly teaches then please give the source.

 

[face2face]

If you are going to quote what the Catholic Church supposedly teaches then please give the source.

DR. LUDWIG OTT
FUNDAMENTALS OF CATHOLIC DOGMA

Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma has been considered as the definitive single volume summary of Catholic dogmatic theology ever since its original publication in German in 1952

 

[Enoch111]

If you are going to quote what the Catholic Church supposedly teaches then please give the source.

Even when the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) is quoted directly to show its false teachings, many Catholics try to dodge the issue. So it does not matter about sources. I could quote extensively from the CCC and compare that with what the Bible actually says. But to you the CCC and Catholic dogma trump Scripture.

 

[face2face]

Even when the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) is quoted directly to show its false teachings, many Catholics try to dodge the issue. So it does not matter about sources. I could quote extensively from the CCC and compare that with what the Bible actually says. But to you the CCC and Catholic dogma trump Scripture.

I realise this to be the case but I live in hope that a Nicodemus might come to know Christ in the darkness of night with the intention of discovering living truth. JohnPaul is such an example in this forum and who knows maybe Mungo's curiosity might lead him to ask question's. One thing is for such the unraveling of false teaching is extensive and takes a long time to unlearn.

 

[face2face]

Post #379 @theefaith
In regards to how you use Scripture by daisy chaining verses together, or by dumping text into a post, I could show you how to better understand & study the Bible. Help you read it with meaning and with the purpose of gaining true wisdom. Maybe you have been told; this verse = that meaning, without actually looking at the context for deeper meaning. More than willing to help, just send a PM or setup a private chat.

 

[Mungo]

DR. LUDWIG OTT
FUNDAMENTALS OF CATHOLIC DOGMA

Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma has been considered as the definitive single volume summary of Catholic dogmatic theology ever since its original publication in German in 1952

That's a useless reference.
It's like saying " in the Bible" or "in the Catholic Catechism".

Do you actually know where it is the Ott's book or have you just done a copy & paste from a web site?

 

[theefaith]

Mark 10:18 •Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

Correct, Jesus had no inherent goodness in himself like Yahweh his Father.

It's like Hebrews 5:9 Jesus was "being" perfected - he wasn't perfect, he still had a carnal mind that could sin.

Words like "being made" or "became" show this was something he did NOT previously possess. i.e you cant become perfect, if you were already perfect.

Jesus knew what was in himself, hence the statement, ONLY God is good. John 2:23-25

we are not talking about Jesus but Mary
But it refers to his humanity
God became man
There are two natures of be divine one human in the single person of Jesus
All that it’s about is according to nature we are nothing, but according to grace is another matter

 

[theefaith]

Enoch can provide an example of these false teachings

one at a time please

 

[face2face]

That's a useless reference.
It's like saying " in the Bible" or "in the Catholic Catechism".

Do you actually know where it is the Ott's book or have you just done a copy & paste from a web site?

Very defensive there Mungo!

I have the book!



Here is the index if you try more evasive tactics!

 

[face2face]

we are not talking about Jesus but Mary
But it refers to his humanity
God became man
There are two natures of be divine one human in the single person of Jesus
All that it’s about is according to nature we are nothing, but according to grace is another matter

Can you see the amusement?
You misquote two sections of Scripture trying to prove Mary's perpetual virginity after baiting me for the past 30 posts only to come back with some obscure comment about Jesus and two natures.
@theefaith is confused
@Mungo is on the defensive
@Illuminator is nowhere to be seen
@Marymog has gone missing

 

[face2face]

Did Mary and her sons interrupt the Lord's ministry? Matthew 12:46

 

[Mungo]

Very defensive there Mungo!

I have the book!

View attachment 18300

Here is the index if you try more evasive tactics!

View attachment 18304

I'm impressed. That's more than most Catholics have.

I have managed to find and download a pdf of the book.
So perhaps you can point me to the paragraph that says:
"from the moment of her conception in the womb of her mother, as well as her preservation from the dominion of sin all her earthly life" that you quoted because I cannot find it.
Thanks

 

[face2face]

I'm impressed. That's more than most Catholics have.

I have managed to find and download a pdf of the book.
So perhaps you can point me to the paragraph that says:
"from the moment of her conception in the womb of her mother, as well as her preservation from the dominion of sin all her earthly life" that you quoted because I cannot find it.
Thanks

Chapter 2

1. a) By conception is to be understood the passive conception. The first moment of the conception is that moment of time in which the soul was created by God and infused into the bodily matter prepared by her parents. b) The essence of original sin consists (formaliter) in the lack of sanctifying grace, in consequence of the fall of Adam. Mary was preserved from this defect, so that she entered existence in the state of sanctifying grace. DR. LUDWIG OTT FUNDAMENTALS OF CATHOLIC DOGMA

The quote if you go back to my original post was this one:

Chapter 2

4.2 Freedom from Actual Sin

In consequence of a Special Privilege of Grace from God, Mary was free from every personal sin during her whole life. (Sent. fidei proxima.) DR. LUDWIG OTT FUNDAMENTALS OF CATHOLIC DOGMA

This is further confirmed by the The ENCYCLOPEDIA of CHRISTIANITY Volume 1–3

Chapter 1.3.3.

The immaculate conception, which sheds further light on the Marian mystery, asserts that at the very first moment of her conception, Mary remained pure of every stain of sin (DH 2803). It involves Mary’s liberation from original → sin from the moment of her conception in the womb of her mother, as well as her preservation from the dominion of sin all her earthly life. Denzinger-Hünermann, Enchiridion symbolorum (37th ed., 1991)

Would be good to have this confirmed but it seems conclusive from all four references.

 

[theefaith]

Can you see the amusement?
You misquote two sections of Scripture trying to prove Mary's perpetual virginity after baiting me for the past 30 posts only to come back with some obscure comment about Jesus and two natures.
@theefaith is confused
@Mungo is on the defensive
@Illuminator is nowhere to be seen
@Marymog has gone missing

you would think a Christian would show a little respect, charity of many shall grow cold matt 24

 

[theefaith]

Did Mary and her sons interrupt the Lord's ministry? Matthew 12:46

a mother has a right to interrupt her son if she deems it necessary

her son’s ???????

is that supposed to mean something?

Scripture does not say her son’s

Matt 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

the twelve sons of Jacob, did they have a mother? Or four mothers? Yet all are brothers

 

[theefaith]

I thought Protestants were opposed to adding to or changing scripture???

 

[Mungo]

Chapter 2

1. a) By conception is to be understood the passive conception. The first moment of the conception is that moment of time in which the soul was created by God and infused into the bodily matter prepared by her parents. b) The essence of original sin consists (formaliter) in the lack of sanctifying grace, in consequence of the fall of Adam. Mary was preserved from this defect, so that she entered existence in the state of sanctifying grace. DR. LUDWIG OTT FUNDAMENTALS OF CATHOLIC DOGMA

The quote if you go back to my original post was this one:

Chapter 2

4.2 Freedom from Actual Sin

In consequence of a Special Privilege of Grace from God, Mary was free from every personal sin during her whole life. (Sent. fidei proxima.) DR. LUDWIG OTT FUNDAMENTALS OF CATHOLIC DOGMA

This is further confirmed by the The ENCYCLOPEDIA of CHRISTIANITY Volume 1–3

Chapter 1.3.3.

The immaculate conception, which sheds further light on the Marian mystery, asserts that at the very first moment of her conception, Mary remained pure of every stain of sin (DH 2803). It involves Mary’s liberation from original → sin from the moment of her conception in the womb of her mother, as well as her preservation from the dominion of sin all her earthly life. Denzinger-Hünermann, Enchiridion symbolorum (37th ed., 1991)

Would be good to have this confirmed but it seems conclusive from all four references.

So now you admit you lied and the quote "from the moment of her conception in the womb of her mother, as well as her preservation from the dominion of sin all her earthly life" wasn't from FUNDAMENTALS OF CATHOLIC DOGMA as you claimed.
You gave attributes to myself, theefaith, Illuminator and Marymog so what shall I say about you:
@face2face is lying

 

[Marymog]

The most truthful thing you have said to date. Now can we start?

No, I want start a conversation with you on your heretical teaching that Jesus is not God. Your heresy was rejected by The Church almost 2,000 years ago.

 

[face2face]

a mother has a right to interrupt her son if she deems it necessary

her son’s ???????

is that supposed to mean something?

Scripture does not say her son’s

Matt 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

the twelve sons of Jacob, did they have a mother? Or four mothers? Yet all are brothers

Do you know why she interrupted Jesus?
If they are Jesus' brothers whose son's are they? Jesus only had one mother right?

 

[face2face]

So now you admit you lied and the quote "from the moment of her conception in the womb of her mother, as well as her preservation from the dominion of sin all her earthly life" wasn't from FUNDAMENTALS OF CATHOLIC DOGMA as you claimed.
You gave attributes to myself, theefaith, Illuminator and Marymog so what shall I say about you:
@face2face is lying

So this you say is not from DR. LUDWIG OTT FUNDAMENTALS OF CATHOLIC DOGMA

Chapter 2

4.2 Freedom from Actual Sin

In consequence of a Special Privilege of Grace from God, Mary was free from every personal sin during her whole life. (Sent. fidei proxima.) DR. LUDWIG OTT FUNDAMENTALS OF CATHOLIC DOGMA

A miss quote is not a lie Mungo but you still have a problem don't you?

Can you see the problem?