What is New Testament Holiness?

[quietthinker]

Everyone needs to be encouraged to challenge everything.

Matthew, didn't you just say the above? so why run when a challenge is put to you?

 

[MatthewG]

Matthew, didn't you just say the above? so why run when a challenge is put to you?

What about Jesus when he knelt down in the sand, or times when he just did not say anything?

The challenge is not for me - it's for you.

I believe I have figured out what God's wrath pertains to - it pertains to the time and nature of what was foretold 400 years ago, before Christ showed up, the historical narrative and all those things in the bible need to be taken ahold of and looked at...

However, when I mention these things - you say matthew you are going down a rabbit hole; what is there a challenge for me to go and find?

Or what it is it that you are confused about in aspect of Gods wrath which you say you are not confused about at all?

Very stupid to continue. For me and you to go back and forth... if you already done know yourself too.



This is why I am very leary of people, who come by and suggest things or whatever cause you never really know the true intentions of others, and with a confusing scenario such as this one it just makes things complicated.

So I don't worry about it Cornilous.

 

[quietthinker]

What about Jesus when he knelt down in the sand, or times when he just did not say anything?

The challenge is not for me - it's for you.

I believe I have figured out what God's wrath pertains to - it pertains to the time and nature of what was foretold 400 years ago, before Christ showed up, the historical narrative and all those things in the bible need to be taken ahold of and looked at...

However, when I mention these things - you say matthew you are going down a rabbit hole; what is there a challenge for me to go and find?

Or what it is it that you are confused about in aspect of Gods wrath which you say you are not confused about at all?

Very stupid to continue. For me and you to go back and forth... if you already done know yourself too.



This is why I am very leary of people, who come by and suggest things or whatever cause you never really know the true intentions of others, and with a confusing scenario such as this one it just makes things complicated.

So I don't worry about it Cornilous.

That's unfortunate Matthew.....very unfortunate.

 

[MatthewG]

That's unfortunate Matthew.....very unfortunate.

It is cause i wanna talk about these things with people but … you know… how do we do that in a good mannered way on the internet?

Its hard, i like a voice to talk to me and explain rather than reading messages on a board.

Do you got a zoom contact or something we can meet up like that if you want?

Im just now recovering off my meth run i had for the past three months and today is day 2… never had a good support system; hoping maybe this time will ne different.

But on this forum stuff most likely it will never work out.

 

[quietthinker]

It is cause i wanna talk about these things with people but … you know… how do we do that in a good mannered way on the internet?

Its hard, i like a voice to talk to me and explain rather than reading messages on a board.

Do you got a zoom contact or something we can meet up like that if you want?

Im just now recovering off my meth run i had for the past three months and today is day 2… never had a good support system; hoping maybe this time will ne different.

But on this forum stuff most likely it will never work out.

A few (6-12) of us (believers in Jesus) around the world get together and talk about these things; Perhaps you would be interested in joining us on zoom?
For North Americans the time is Monday evening 6.30pm mountain standard time and the zoom link is 403 506 9201.
Please come, you are welcome.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Being spared the fate of the lake of fire...being saved from death...in no way ensures that we will not be rejected by Christ, or else suffer loss on judgment day. There is the destiny of outer darkness to consider.

Struggle here with being spare the fate of the lake of fire…being saved from death …is like saying the all-consuming Fire of God cannot fully cleanse and consume, to burn up all that is contrary to Him—all that is to be dissolved and pass away. Why be spared from her lake of Fire when the Fire is what does away with the fear of what men can do, and all that is false and a lie and every false doctrine of men? Isn’t that what is needful? Why else the Lord will reward you for heaping hot coals upon the head of him who thirst and ask for food? If your enemy is thirsty, give him drink. If your enemy hungers, feed him. In doing so you cast coals upon his head, and the Lord will reward you? Not for destruction but for giving unto him who is in need of Fire; being thirsty and hungry being an enemy of God which you also was once an enemy of God and God showed mercy upon you while you were a sinner and an enemy …is that evil?

Also, it assumes the outer darkness was not yet, where the religious Pharisees and those who rejected His visitation were cast out unto. “Hand the evil one over to satan for the destruction of the flesh, so THAT the spirit may be saved.” To me it means the outer darkness from hearing His Voice, from seeing His face, from being in His presence; to be made blind…their eyes now having been made shut…which He told them “if you had known the peace you had, but now it is hidden from you” and also the voices of what little they claim to have even that will be taken away from them. To me it is because what little people had that came to them as representatives of God, as spokesman’s of God …what little the woman with the few mites had, all her living…they themselves devoured the widows house and took away what little others had. “As you do unto others, it will be done unto you.” Didn’t He warn them? Over and over. So it was done unto them in what little hearing, what little seeing, what little presence of the words of God they had, was taken away from them.
“A heavy sleep.” …is a good word I think for “outer darkness.”

Putting them without in outer darkness…a perpetual heavy sleep . “Now come unto Me all you who are heavy laden with sins. My burden is Light.” Where they remain until just like everyone else, they learn (being taught)to not blasphemy God.

Without holiness we will not live in God's presence. If we also are not humble and God-fearing, then even a place among the saved nations will be barred from us.

To me Paul shows this New Testament Holiness.
he seeks to see Christ revealed in them, he seeks of the Spirit of God formed in them, their being made strong in Him and made complete. No barring for Paul whom Christ speaks in… what Paul is doing towards them even though they consider him a reprobate without the voice of Christ, as one who fails…he does not bar the way for them to be born of God…but as a helper of their Faith and birth from above …urges them to do what is right. The most impossible thing for men; where God has to give the increase which is joyful…Christ in Paul awaiting a glorious New Birth where the angels rejoice over one sinner who repents …awaiting the presence and Power of God to 1)make Paul’s joy full(Christ) in them. 2) for their going beyond not only loving those who love them but also those they claim hate them which Paul they are accusing as being just that..against them, as a liar, as a reprobate and a thief, and not FOR THEM. Paul urges…even though …”the more I love you the less I be loved… “do well” “do what is right in the sight of God” “be made complete in Him” even though YOU DON’T see Christ speaks in me now, yet…I Trust (Christ) that your eyes will be open, your ears unstopped, and our heart enlarged towards you, brethren … “be you reconciled unto God” “be you made complete” “lacking in nothing”

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Also, it assumes the outer darkness was not yet, where the religious Pharisees and those who rejected His visitation were cast out unto. “Hand the evil one over to satan for the destruction of the flesh, so THAT the spirit may be saved.” To me it means the outer darkness from hearing His Voice, from seeing His face, from being in His presence; to be made blind…their eyes now having been made shut…which He told them “if you had known the peace you had, but now it is hidden from you” and also the voices of what little they claim to have even that will be taken away from them. To me it is because what little people had that came to them as representatives of God, as spokesman’s of God …what little the woman with the few mites had, all her living…they themselves devoured the widows house and took away what little others had. “As you do unto others, it will be done unto you.” Didn’t He warn them? Over and over. So it was done unto them in what little hearing, what little seeing, what little presence of the words of God they had, was taken away from them.
“A heavy sleep.” …is a good word I think for “outer darkness.”

Also, we would have to deny and ignore the more religious and judgmental of others as our being above and over them we become… is there any truth to the more religious men we become, the further we become from the source of The Life of God’s presence? The harder it is to see Him? Blind, then blinder (by the god of THIS World, Imo tells the time of outer darkness) and blinder we sink in darkness. Point is…why make the outer darkness something akin to what “hell” has become; such a debated thing? Further and further away from the source which is God.

 

[Lizbeth]

The Wrath of God is and was only for the nation of Israel.

When God divorced them, in 70AD.

I agree that many of the prophecies of the coming wrath were to the Jew and Jerusalem first, and many kind of miss or skip over that. But also to the Gentile according to these passages:

1Co 10:1-12

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for OUR admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.



Rom 2:5-11

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

For there is no respect of persons with God.

 

[Lizbeth]

Wrath is stored up anger.

Look up these words

“The last day”
“The great and dreadful day of the Lord”

And wrath was promised 400 tears before Christ came in the book of Malachi. A promise relating only to the jewish nation to become desolated.

Be encouraged to study … as the promise of this wrath would be on the sons and daughters of disobedience (who turned from God to idol worship) - even turning over Jesus to be killed with the crime committed against God.

You can even see in the story before Jesus is taken to be crucifed.


The Jewish people saying “let his blood be on our hands and our childrens hands”, just go and look it up.

Very true - but consider whether it also portrays and prophesies the pattern/example that the church will take. And whether, like Israel, in the end only a remnant will be saved.

 

[MatthewG]

I agree that many of the prophecies of the coming wrath were to the Jew and Jerusalem first, and many kind of miss or skip over that. But also to the Gentile according to these passages:

1Co 10:1-12

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for OUR admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.



Rom 2:5-11

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

For there is no respect of persons with God.

what does that mean to you?

 

[MatthewG]

Very true - but consider whether it also portrays and prophesies the pattern/example that the church will take. And whether, like Israel, in the end only a remnant will be saved.

Jesus said the way is narrow, and the path strait? Only be few there that find it, there are probably more people out there in need of the Lord than we can think, though America has 'in God we trust' on money, many people have an idea of God, maybe like a grandpa or something, but not really trust in God, or seek him.

But what does these things you say mean to you? Cause I dont know what you may believe anyway.

Love to you Lizbeth,
Matthew

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The world might well be indifferent to righteousness. But the church in our time is indifferent to holiness. The wrath of God is meant for those who are indifferent to Jesus Christ....both in the world and the church. Each bears a responsibility according to the level of their calling.

The wrath of God is on all sinners.

All have sinned and fall short.

Only God can make you Holy..

You will never be holy enough to remove the wrath of God from you. thats why you must be saved

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hello,

The Wrath of God is and was only for the nation of Israel.

When God divorced them, in 70AD.

People have the choice to walk and live a holy life that pure and full of life, and some people may not be so close to God but they have faith and they live the way they choose.

God is just and can not be mocked
(Galatians 6:6Nevertheless, the one who receives instruction in the word must share in all good things with his instructor. 7 Do not be deceived: God is not to be mocked. Whatever a man sows, he will reap in return. 8The one who sows to please his flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; but the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.)

What we reap here now spiritually will be a blessing in the afterlife, but if you build on the fleshly here it will just die and it amounts to nothing.

Everything is done in an through the Spirit of Christ, and the Holy Spirit with credit to them for giving us the ability to have attributes that come by the Spirit given.

Gods wrath is on unrighteousness

Col 3: 5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

 

[Episkopos]

The wrath of God is on all sinners.

All have sinned and fall short.

Only God can make you Holy..

You will never be holy enough to remove the wrath of God from you. thats why you must be saved

This post is a jumble of different layers of confusion. You should watch the video and comment on the basic points...first praying for guidance from God's Spirit. It's time you took the whole counsel of God seriously.

 

[Episkopos]

Gods wrath is on unrighteousness

Col 3: 5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

Those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness are those who claim God's righteousness for themselves. Only those who claim to have the truth can suppress it.

Most modern evangelical types are hostile to righteousness. These believe their religious posturing makes them immune from righteous judgment. There are going to be many surprises on judgment day.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This post is a jumble of different layers of confusion. You should watch the video and comment on the basic points...first praying for guidance from God's Spirit. It's time you took the whole counsel of God seriously.

Watching the video is not going to help me

Reading the bible however has helped me

The only one confused here my friend is you

You think you are holy..

You have failed to repent. you keep trying to go to God with your own righteousness

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness are those who claim God's righteousness for themselves. Only those who claim to have the truth can suppress it.

where do you come up with this nonsense? Arer you serious?

the people who suppressed the truth in righteousness are those who refused to acknowledge God and made up their own Gods because they loved their sin.

Most modern evangelical types are hostile to righteousness. These believe their religious posturing makes them immune from righteous judgment. There are going to be many surprises on judgment day.

Well I am not like them, I am not hostile to righteousness. I am hostile to those who pervert the gospel of Christ. and who reject the righteousness of Christ on all who believe

 

[Episkopos]

Watching the video is not going to help me

Reading the bible however has helped me

The only one confused here my friend is you

You think you are holy..

You have failed to repent. you keep trying to go to God with your own righteousness

You fail because of your religious presumptions and assumptions...and these same errant ways you use to judge others. I never claimed to be holy. You are simply projecting your superficiality onto me.

 

[Episkopos]

Those who cling to a religious indoctrination will not listen to alternate teachings..because they are unable to see anything deeply. They are unable to question any of their presumptions or assumptions...for FEAR that their whole belief system be called into question. So they stubbornly....stiffening their necks...cling to a false understanding leading to a false hope. These people are set up for a huge disappointment.

I post these videos for communicating the deeper truth that is NOT tolerated in religious circles. Those who are unable to look beyond their own religious conditioning are exposed here for their lack of thoughtful diligence.

A tree is known by its fruit. A wise person looks at different POV's in order to establish a proper understanding. But the superficial veneer believers who seek to use God for THEIR own purposes will have none of it.

 

[Episkopos]

where do you come up with this nonsense? Arer you serious?

the people who suppressed the truth in righteousness are those who refused to acknowledge God and made up their own Gods because they loved their sin.



Well I am not like them, I am not hostile to righteousness. I am hostile to those who pervert the gospel of Christ. and who reject the righteousness of Christ on all who believe

Oh, the irony.