What is the point that we should judge someone as being a false teacher?

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justbyfaith

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I believe that the Lord is both sovereign and Omnipotent and loving; and that as such He is going to preserve at least one translation in every language that accurately portrays the gospel message and as an integrated message system that can be used to defeat the devil and his doctrines, i.e. "It is written."

The translation that God has preserved would certainly not be lacking when it comes to certain verses that some translations have lacking even the entirety of the verse; in some, half of the verse is missing.

But in the Textus Receptus, and the kjv which is derived from it, I find that I am not cheated out of certain things that are included therein but are removed from other manuscripts / translations.

Therefore, I hold that the kjv is the best translation that we have in English and that God has even orchestrated the translation of it so that the Holy Ghost was in charge of choosing the very words that were used in the translation.

I think of it this way: when it comes to Jesus the common people heard Him gladly, but the educated scribes and Pharisees rejected Him.

So, when it comes to people who claim to be educated Greek and Hebrew scholars; I do not put much stock in what they say in today's world. The scholars that translated the kjv were ordained by God to bring about the translation, so they are an exception to the rule.

But when people come along and say, the original language actually says this...

I do not put much stock in what they are saying because I believe that the kjv is accurate and that there is no need of going back to the original languages any more. All we need is trust in God and a relationship with the Holy Spirit: He will give us the sense of what is written in the plainest meaning of the text.

Now, we can gain added insight from the original languages in certain cases. For example, the word "love" has four different meanings in Greek; and when Jesus restores Peter in John 21, it is clearly helpful to know which Greek word is used for love in each case that it is used. Another example is that in 1 John 1:7 the verb tense of the word "cleanseth" can give added insight into your understanding of the verse if you are aware of what that is.

But what I am saying is that the plain meaning of what we find in the kjv is not going to be changed if we go back to the original language and find out what that says. You can try to change the meaning by going back there; because sometimes the original Greek word has more than one meaning: but in doing so I believe that there is a sense in which you actually have itching ears and are seeking a meaning other than what the kjv has told you because you simply don't like what the Holy Spirit is saying to you through the kjv. So you try to make it say something different that is more appealing to the flesh and what you want it to be saying; when the meaning that is meted out by the kjv is just fine and is exactly what the Holy Spirit wants you to hear and He is using those specific words to speak to you His message from the word.
 

Truther

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This question is inspired by @Joseph77, when he asked me in Genuine Questions for Cessationist's



I will answer your question in the next post - but what I am keen to hear from you (and others) is the topic of this thread:

I think it's a good question that needs further consideration.

What is the point that we judge someone as being a false teacher? Is it when they preach a different gospel message, or deny the deity of Christ?

Or is it more - such as if they differ from our perception on matters such as OSAS / Calvanism / Sign Gifts being ready today?

Where do we draw the line at disregarding someone else as being a false teacher?

- Scoot
Are you saying Jesus was a false teacher???....


24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


Jesus here, denies he, himself, is deity.
 

justbyfaith

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Are you saying Jesus was a false teacher???....


24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


Jesus here, denies he, himself, is deity.
No, He doesn't...you failed to look at the topical context of this in John 14:7-11.

Also, Jesus often referred to Himself in the 3rd person.
 
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bbyrd009

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This question is inspired by @Joseph77, when he asked me in Genuine Questions for Cessationist's



I will answer your question in the next post - but what I am keen to hear from you (and others) is the topic of this thread:

I think it's a good question that needs further consideration.

What is the point that we judge someone as being a false teacher? Is it when they preach a different gospel message, or deny the deity of Christ?

Or is it more - such as if they differ from our perception on matters such as OSAS / Calvanism / Sign Gifts being ready today?

Where do we draw the line at disregarding someone else as being a false teacher?

- Scoot
that would be subjective anyway i guess, but as strange as this might sound to a Western ear i suggest that one using the Hegelian (or "Satan's") rather than the Naive dialect can be confidently overlooked, he who says he knows anything, doesnt
wow, searching these has gotten more difficult! i just grabbed this link, have no idea what may come of watching the vid, Anti-Globalism Media
SATAN'S BIGGEST TRICK "THE HEGELIAN DIALECTIC"
 
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bbyrd009

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Are you saying Jesus was a false teacher???....


24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


Jesus here, denies he, himself, is deity.
hmm you think? surprised to hear you say that. Could you maybe walk through the chain that got you there if you would? ty
 

Truther

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No, He doesn't...you failed to look at the topical context of this in John 14:7-11.

Also, Jesus often referred to himself in the 3rd person.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Jesus was saying "him" was Jesus himself?

Do you say "him" about someone else, referring to yourself?

Please fix this.
 
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Enoch111

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Jesus here, denies he, himself, is deity.
No, He does not deny His deity. He simply affirms who the Father is. God the Father is indeed a Spirit, and so is the Holy Spirit. But Jesus is GOD MANIFEST IN THE FLESH.

1. God the Father is neither the Son nor the Holy Spirit
2. God the Son is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit
3. God the Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son

They are all within the ONE TRIUNE GODHEAD.
 
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bbyrd009

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i think Jesus even reiterates the perspective, @ Worship Yah alone
?
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Jesus was saying "him" was Jesus himself?

Do you say "him" about someone else, referring to yourself?

Please fix this.
ah, that did it, ty!
 

bbyrd009

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The translation that God has preserved would certainly not be lacking when it comes to certain verses that some translations have lacking even the entirety of the verse; in some, half of the verse is missing.

But in the Textus Receptus, and the kjv which is derived from it, I find that I am not cheated out of certain things that are included therein but are removed from other manuscripts / translations.

Therefore, I hold that the kjv is the best translation that we have in English and that God has even orchestrated the translation of it so that the Holy Ghost was in charge of choosing the very words that were used in the translation.

I think of it this way: when it comes to Jesus the common people heard Him gladly, but the educated scribes and Pharisees rejected Him.

So, when it comes to people who claim to be educated Greek and Hebrew scholars; I do not put much stock in what they say in today's world. The scholars that translated the kjv were ordained by God to bring about the translation, so they are an exception to the rule.

But when people come along and say, the original language actually says this...

I do not put much stock in what they are saying because I believe that the kjv is accurate and that there is no need of going back to the original languages any more. All we need is trust in God and a relationship with the Holy Spirit: He will give us the sense of what is written in the plainest meaning of the text.

Now, we can gain added insight from the original languages in certain cases. For example, the word "love" has four different meanings in Greek; and when Jesus restores Peter in John 21, it is clearly helpful to know which Greek word is used for love in each case that it is used. Another example is that in 1 John 1:7 the verb tense of the word "cleanseth" can give added insight into your understanding of the verse if you are aware of what that is.

But what I am saying is that the plain meaning of what we find in the kjv is not going to be changed if we go back to the original language and find out what that says. You can try to change the meaning by going back there; because sometimes the original Greek word has more than one meaning: but in doing so I believe that there is a sense in which you actually have itching ears and are seeking a meaning other than what the kjv has told you because you simply don't like what the Holy Spirit is saying to you through the kjv. So you try to make it say something different that is more appealing to the flesh and what you want it to be saying; when the meaning that is meted out by the kjv is just fine and is exactly what the Holy Spirit wants you to hear and He is using those specific words to speak to you His message from the word.[/QUOTE]
"Easter"

even if i do largely agree
but "Lord" yikes that is an English loaf-warden, to serfs
and whatnot; and there are some other obvious shortcomings, thats how we got our concept of hell; Holy "Ghost" arg...but the deficiencies notwithstanding, it has many great wualities, and at least the parts that go begging are well known
 

Truther

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No, He does not deny His deity. He simply affirms who the Father is. God the Father is indeed a Spirit, and so is the Holy Spirit. But Jesus is GOD MANIFEST IN THE FLESH.

1. God the Father is neither the Son nor the Holy Spirit
2. God the Son is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit
3. God the Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son

They are all within the ONE TRIUNE GODHEAD.
No, Jesus describes GOD as a Spirit...him...him...

Which he was not.

You just don't believe what he was saying at all.

This is because of presupposition.

Good thing you were not there to correct him, huh?
 

bbyrd009

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What's a yah?
well, you would say "God" i guess but that is a pretty generic term, right
so Yah is an attempt to pronounce the unpronounceable i guess, i mean after all
I have said "ye are gods"

and even "Yah" is derived from a transliteration of their Hebrew vowels, but saying "AEOU" who would get that at all lol
 

Truther

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well, you would say "God" i guess but that is a pretty generic term, right
so Yah is an attempt to pronounce the unpronounceable i guess, i mean after all
I have said "ye are gods"

and even "Yah" is derived from a transliteration of their Hebrew vowels, but saying "AEOU" who would get that at all lol
The closest you will get to finding out what God's name is, is this....

43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive....

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

The name of Jesus originally belonged to God, but was not yet revealed until Matt 1.

He inherited his Father's name...Jesus.
 

Enoch111

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No, Jesus describes GOD as a Spirit...him...him...Which he was not. You just don't believe what he was saying at all. This is because of presupposition. Good thing you were not there to correct him, huh?
You do believe in spouting nonsense. So here is a simple question for you: "Is Jesus GOD or is He not?"
 

Yan

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We should not judge someone else as Jesus had warn us to not judge others, because the gauge that you'd put on others will be put on you (Matthew 7:1-2), but you must be able to filter which is judgement and which is the warn and advice. We have to be able to discern the teaching that teach righteousness of the words of God and the teaching that led to astray and worship other than God. If you put your standard on Jesus himself, why did he put to death if he teach the righteous words of God ?
Did jesus bear a good fruit or bad fruit ?
God can use two different ways to speak to mankind, through dream and revelation or using exact reality of the words of God like he spoke to Moses (Numbers 12).
So, the fruit of the tree not always shown the exact reality. Because Jesus came to earth to show the mercy to all mankind who had being persecuted and suffered in vain because of injustice acts by the ruler of babylonian (Luke 4:16-19). Because since Abraham all civilians had suffered of being accused and false allegation to put them into the law that had being corrupted by hoax and false witness (Exodus 23:1-13; Deuteronomy 16:18-20). From the crucifixion of Jesus we had to know what does the lack justice of this world has shown to us ? That there were no justice applied among mankind, today we saw that reality that the elites and the rich people are becoming above the law and the poor are subject of injusticed by the law.
 

atpollard

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The problem that I have is that people revere their English translations as if they are infallible without actually checking out the source texts from which the translations have been generated to see if the message content in both the original and the translations mess together accurately.
You are correct, but those sorts of “reading comprehension” errors in translations tend to produce small errors in theology. No misunderstanding of a word will confuse the deity of Christ in the Gospels. Nor will it convince anyone that Scripture teaches that men are saved because we work hard and deserve it. The great truths of the Ecumenical Creeds of the early church are so clearly written on the pages of Scripture that anyone teaching contrary to such self-evident truth is an obvious false teacher.


Digging deeper for the hidden meat in Scripture is valuable, but that is not where the battle for “orthodoxy” is really being fought. “Name it and claim it” does not spring from confusion over an English word and its Greek or Hebrew root ... it comes from taking a sharpie and a pair of scissors to the Word of God to make it say something that anyone reading it honestly would agree that it does not say.
 

atpollard

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No, Jesus describes GOD as a Spirit...him...him...
Which he was not.
You just don't believe what he was saying at all.
This is because of presupposition.
Good thing you were not there to correct him, huh?
See, this is an example of what I was speaking of when I talk about “False Teachers”. There is no one that can honestly read John Chapter 1 and come away believing that Jesus is not God. The confusion and error sown by this false teaching has nothing to do with an English word vs the Greek root needing clarification. This is a rejection of what Scripture clearly and plainly states.
 

Yan

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You are correct, but those sorts of “reading comprehension” errors in translations tend to produce small errors in theology. No misunderstanding of a word will confuse the deity of Christ in the Gospels.
Exactly, how it does said in this verse

ASV
James 2:8-9
8. Howbeit if ye fulfil the royal law, according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
9. but if ye have respect of persons, ye commit sin, being convicted by the law as transgressors.

BBE
James 2:8-9
8. But if you keep the greatest law of all, as it is given in the holy Writings, Have love for your neighbour as for yourself, you do well:
9. But if you take a man's position into account, you do evil, and are judged as evil-doers by the law.

From the ASV perspective could lead a man into astray and racist.
 

Jay Ross

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You are correct, but those sorts of “reading comprehension” errors in translations tend to produce small errors in theology. No misunderstanding of a word will confuse the deity of Christ in the Gospels. Nor will it convince anyone that Scripture teaches that men are saved because we work hard and deserve it. The great truths of the Ecumenical Creeds of the early church are so clearly written on the pages of Scripture that anyone teaching contrary to such self-evident truth is an obvious false teacher.


Digging deeper for the hidden meat in Scripture is valuable, but that is not where the battle for “orthodoxy” is really being fought. “Name it and claim it” does not spring from confusion over an English word and its Greek or Hebrew root .. it comes from taking a sharpie and a pair of scissors to the Word of God to make it say something that anyone reading it honestly would agree that it does not say.

I disagree. When a small error is built upon, the error grows. Take for example, the Hebrew root word H:5769, owlam, does if have a finite period of time or an infinite period of time associated with its meaning? The difference in this error can have a big theological impact on our understanding of the scriptures. The Hebrew words where this Hebrew Root word is embedded in, is often simply translated as "forever", i.e. of infinite duration, whereas, the meaning in the context of the passage is that the time has a finite limitation and should be understood to have the meaning of, "for a period of time which is outside of our ability to comprehend the length of." The first definition of an infinite duration with a specific starting point from which the clock starts measuring the duration, but it has no finishing point for the time period concerned. The second definition defines a finite period of time with both a starting and finishing point, for the time period that the event is describing. In a number of cases the duration of the finite period of time is defined i.e. for two ages, but the translators have used the expression of "many ages" and described this as a technical translation for expressions like "dowr waadowr."

The theological differences can become huge because of our mistaken understanding in the English translation paraphrasing of the source texts.

Another example can be found in the Abrahamic Covenant. Was Abraham promised "land" or the "whole earth?" Abraham was told to walk the length and breath of the earth that God had said that He would show him as well as promising him the whole earth as his and his descendants inheritance, at some time in the future. God was not promising Abraham some scraps of land for his relationship with Him, but God was offering all of His earth as an inheritance, the same as would be given to a son. The concept of God the father was present even back during Abraham's time. Our understanding today is based on how well or poorly the source language texts have been translated into the English language that we use to communicate with.

The problem is that people latch onto the English translations as if they are infallible and never set out to validate the translations with respect to the source language in which they were written and "teach" from that perspective.

Shalom
 
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