Ok, now for starters can we please forego this? Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean it's time to start leveling mild insults at them as being unspiritual. You're at least polite about it, but I get this sort of thing a lot, and it's labelling. You're insinuating I'm not a "true child of God" in the sense that I'm not spiritually enlightened.
First of all this was not meant as an insult in anyway nor was I questioning your spirituality, nevertheless if a reproof or correction is proven necessary the man of God should not frown upon such, but rather should accept it as evidence that the Lord is dealing with him. Even the spiritually minded have a tendency from time to time to look at things from the natural man’s perspective. In many cases certain things can be viewed from both perspectives.
LoL. Yes, all is harmony when the wicked are judged. Edom later becomes emblematic of what God hates and brings judgment upon.
Harvest, in Romans 9, Paul is not comparing those who are favored versus those who are "less favored." He's comparing those who are true children of God from those who are not true children of God (Romans 9:8). Esau was a child of the flesh. Come on, buddy. I'm trying to start my day here, and you're fogging up my head, LoL.
And so are we to assume as you appear to suggest that those who are not the true children of God, the “
promised seed” are
hated by God? Heavens No! There are both spiritual promises and there are earthly promises, the spiritual naturally being the higher or greater favors. Fleshly Israel (except for a remnant) felled in obtaining these higher favors.
“
As concerning the Gospel they are enemies for your own sakes; but as touching the election they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.”
What could be plainer, simpler, than this statement? Who could misunderstand that the Apostle is here referring to Natural Israel, broken off from special favor and relationship to God, that the favored ones from among the Gentiles might be gathered into membership in the Church of Christ, Spiritual Israel? And how strong, how convincing, is the statement that, in harmony with divine predestination on the subject,
Israel is not forever cast off from divine favor, but is included among God’s elections—elect of God as a people, not to the highest place, the spiritual, but to have the first and highest blessing of all the families of the earth under Messiah’s Kingdom, and this not for their own sakes, but for the father’s sakes—for the sake of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob—for the sake of God’s promises made to them—for the sake of all the faithful of that nation who walked with God.
This does not sound like a people God hates, only one less favored.
“
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.” The Lord knew of the
temporary lopping off of Israel even before he had made any of his promises concerning them.
“
For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience (as well as the higher honor and favor),
even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy (or special favor)
shown you they also may obtain mercy (favor, howbeit a lesser favor).
For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.” (
Rom 11:29-32)
Oh, Heavens... Harvest, I was talking about the foreknowledge of God. He disdains those who reject Him. They will have not only rejected Him but the Father. Does He walk in hate? No. Does He disdain the wicked, which means view them as not worthy of reward but rather torment? Yes. (Matthew 25:26–30).
As the Apostle insinuated Israel’s rejection of the Lord is only temporary, God having committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy upon them all. The difficulty here is that like most of the professing church you appear to be under the impression that now is the only time for salvation, that if one does not repent and accept Christ in this lifetime they are forever lost. (We won’t even go into the God dishonoring and blasphemous doctrine of eternal torment as the wages of sin here, which you seem to be advocating.)
Now in the next age when the knowledge of the Lord covers the earth as the waters cover the sea
then having been brought to a knowledge of the truth should any (including Israel after the flesh) reject Christ (the Great “
Prophet”,
Acts 3:19:22, 23) they shall be utterly cut-off from amongst the people (i.e. go into second death).
Yes they are beloved, but this does not negate the fact that if they don't repent of rejecting Christ as Savior they are headed for eternal torment, and those in Hell are not simply "less favored."
We agree if they don’t repent and accept Christ they are doomed as are all men, but God is not dealing with either Israel or the rest of the world presently. The only ones presently on trial for life or death right now are the fully consecrated; those in covenant relationship with the Father (
Psa 50:5) those who have been begotten of the His spirit, the rest of the world as well as Israel will be judged in the next age, for
God “
has appointed a day (a future age, the millennial age, during the Mediatorial reign)
in which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man (the Christ Head and body)
whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him (first the head and presently the body)
from the dead.”
Acts 17:31
There was no intimation by the Apostle that the world's Judgment Day had begun already when he spoke these words. Everything in his language indicated that it would be future. Elsewhere we are told that when the world will be on judgment, on trial, for life or death everlasting, the Church glorified will be the judges. (
Matt 19:28; 1 Cor. 6:2) This means that when the Church,
now on trial, shall have been completed, finished its judgment shall have passed through the resurrection change into glory and become associated with the Redeemer in His Kingdom, then and only then will the world have its Judgment Day, or trial.
As for your last statement, “those in Hell are not simply "less favored." This is true, they’re not, they’re just dead and the dead know nothing.
“
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge (consciousness)
or wisdom in the grave (Heb.
sheol, hell)
where you are going.”
Eccl 9:10
