What Need I of Grace?

[justbyfaith]

Yep

Yet in rom 7, he spoke of his war with his fallen nature.

If Paul still warned with his nature far be it for me to think I am better than paul

Paul was using the literary tactic, in Romans 7:14-25, identifying himself as carnal, in order to define carnality.

In Romans 6 and in Romans 8, Paul refutes the idea that the Romans 7:14-25 life is the life of the normal Christian.

See specifically Romans 6:14-16. Here, we are told that it is a matter of lifestyle. If we live our lives as a sinner, it is unto death, but if we walk in obedience, it is unto a practical righteousness (see also 1 John 3:7).

Also, every Christian living in Romans 7:14-25 ought to be discontented with his life of sin, according to Paul in Romans 7:24.

Thus, the ideal move is to graduate into Romans 8.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Paul was using the literary tactic, in Romans 7:14-25, identifying himself as carnal, in order to define carnality.

In Romans 6 and in Romans 8, Paul refutes the idea that the Romans 7:14-25 life is the life of the normal Christian.

See specifically Romans 6:14-16. Here, we are told that it is a matter of lifestyle. If we live our lives as sinner, it is unto death, but if we walk in obedience, it is unto a practical righteousness (see also 1 John 3:7).

Also, every Christian living in Romans 7:14-25 ought to be discontented with his life of sin, according to Paul in Romans 7:24.

Thus, the ideal move is to graduate into Romans 8.

Nice idea

but I can not agree

 

[justbyfaith]

Nice idea

but I can not agree

That's a crying shame.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's a shame.

Yes. I agree

it’s a shame you see it that way

 

[Candidus]

Yep

Yet in rom 7, he spoke of his war with his fallen nature.

If Paul still warned with his nature far be it for me to think I am better than paul

It was Saul that struggled and found salvation in Jesus Christ. Then after he changed his name to Paul he moved on to Romans 8. Those that make this Paul's internal struggle as a Christian still fail to ever move on to Chapter 8. Why is that?

 

[DNB]

These are amazing times. I first realized that something was wrong about 20 years before the internet took off. I eagerly sought the truth; but even with public libraries, and a life of ease compared to even 100 years before; it would have taken me several lifetimes of intensive research to bring me to the level that I'm at now. I believe that this generation will be held more accountable, with so many advantages. These are exciting times.

Agreed, well said about accountability!

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes. I agree

it’s a shame you see it that way

What is a shame is that you aren't taking the holy scriptures at face value. I tell you truly that it may even be to your ultimate damnation.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I think John was telling us if we think we are sinless we are decieved

EVERYONE has sin in them without Christ. THAT is what 1 John 1:8 means. Vs. 9 says, but if you confess your sin, Jesus is faithful and just to forgive you of your sin, and cleanse you from all unrighteousness.

Verse 10 is the same, with someone saying they were born without sin, therefore have not sinned. And notice it comes after verse 9, thus saying they don't need Jesus; they are righteous enough without God.

 

[HARK!]

Because we bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law that would condemn our behaviour.

...and there you go. The fruit of the spirit is obedience to the law. Therefore the law won't condemn your behavior.

 

[justbyfaith]

...and there you go. The fruit of the spirit is obedience to the law. Therefore thew law won't condemn your behavior.

No; The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance; against such there is no law. (Galatiasns 5:22-23).

The venue by which one reaches obedience is different in the New Testament than in the Old.

Rom 9:30, What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
Rom 9:31, But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32, Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Rom 10:3, For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4, For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Rom 3:21, But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

 

[CharismaticLady]

No; The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance; against such there is no law. (Galatiasns 5:22-23).

The venue by which one reaches obedience is different in the New Testament than in the Old.

Rom 9:30, What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
Rom 9:31, But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32, Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Rom 10:3, For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4, For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Rom 3:21, But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

But it is true that the fruit of the Spirit doesn't break any laws either, doesn't it. So you are both right.

 

[CharismaticLady]

...and there you go. The fruit of the spirit is obedience to the law. Therefore thew law won't condemn your behavior.

But what "law"? The law of sin and death? Or the law of the Spirit of life in Christ? Romans 8:2

 

[HARK!]

none of the laws we might break condemn us to hell.

I didn't realize that YHWH commissioned you to be the judge of that.

 

[justbyfaith]

But it is true that the fruit of the Spirit doesn't break any laws either, doesn't it. So you are both right.

The venue by which we reach obedience in the NT is not by attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts; rather it is through obeying the leadings and promptings of the Holy Ghost; and bearing His fruit in our lives. For there is no law against the fruit of the Spirit. We don't obey the law therefore by seeking to obey the law but by being connected to the vine, abiding in Him, receiving nourishment from the vine and behaving accordingly; because we are not running on empty and therefore we are filled with the love of the Lord (Romans 5:5). This love of the Spirit is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within us (Romans 8:4, Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:23-24).

But it is by faith and not the deeds of the law (see Romans 3:21) that we receive a righteousness that is attested to by the law and the prophets. And this righteousness is a gift (Romans 5:17); a practical righteousness indeed (1 John 3:7).

 

[HARK!]

But what "law"? The law of sin and death? Or the law of the Spirit of life in Christ? Romans 8:2

He pulled that one out of Galatians; so we don't have to pour over the while letter to figure that one out. obviously he talking about the law that Yahshua lived in obedience to unto death; not Roman law.

 

[CharismaticLady]

He pulled that one out of Galatians; so we don't have to pour over the while letter to figure that one out. obviously he talking about the law that Yahshua lived in obedience to unto death; not Roman law.

What is Roman law? Civic law of Rome?

 

[HARK!]

What is Roman law? Civic law of Rome?

Does it matter? I said that part tongue in cheek.

By the way, to my understanding Yahshua told his disciples to break Roman law when he told his disciples to buy swords.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Does it matter? I said that part tongue in cheek.

By the way, to my understanding Yahshua told his disciples to break Roman law when he told his disciples to buy swords.

Is the Ten Commandments the law of sin and death of Romans 8:2? And are the Ten Commandments the ministry of death of 2 Corinthians 3:7?

 

[justbyfaith]

Is the Ten Commandments the law of sin and death of Romans 8:2? And are the Ten Commandments the ministry of death of 2 Corinthians 3:7?

No to the 1st question; yes to the 2nd.

 

[HARK!]

Is the Ten Commandments the law of sin and death?

Of course not.

Look at the second word in verse 8:1.

1 Nothing, consequently, is now condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. Not according to flesh are they walking, but according to spirit, 2 for the spirit's law of life in Christ Jesus frees you from the law of sin and death.

This verse begins a conclusion that is predicated on preceding portions of this letter. Let's start by looking just one verse back:

25 I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Consequently, then, I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law."

Slaving for YHWH's Law..... These don't strike me as the words of someone who is not obedient to YHWH's Law.