What required for going to Heaven?

[IBeMe]

williemac: But what he misses is that we love Him because He first loved us, and NOT because He is threatening to throw us out if we mess up.

.
God has decreed, and nobody can change it; if you sin then you don't love God.

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings:

Sin is an act of defiant rebellion and hate towards God.

Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other

He that committeth sin is of the devil ...

And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, (words of Jesus) ye should walk in it.

If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed

Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Whosoever transgresseth ... hath not God.

Are we going to pretend? ... Or actually do what God says? ... continue in my word

Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

Are we going to surrender our life to live by the words of Jesus? ... continue in my word

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

True peace comes only in total surrender to the words of Jesus. ... continue in my word

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Jesus died so that we could worship the Father in spirit and in truth, because the Father seeketh such to worship him.

God isn't interested in the pretenders. ... continue in my word

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Some will realise they found the pearl of great price and sell all to attain it. ... continue in my word


.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

.
If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel ...

Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

... because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed (works) and in truth.

If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed
.
Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

.

 

[justaname]

And you sinned by falsely accusing me....

 

[IBeMe]

justaname: And you sinned by falsely accusing me....

False statement.

You said you Romans 10:8-13 is the gospel message, and Those who teach differently than this are false teachers.


justaname:
"Romans 10:8-13
...
This is the gospel message...no additions from men or women are necessary. ... Those who teach differently than this are false teachers.
"


You left all the words Jesus out, and the four Gospels.

How can you leave the Gospels out of the Gospel???

.

 

[justaname]

This is what the bible calls the gospel:

1 Corinthians 15:1-11
1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;
7 then He appeared to aJames, then to all the apostles;
8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also.
9 For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.
11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

It is you that add to the gospel and decide you have the authority to say what the gospel is above scripture. Paul did not use any of the quotes you use and he called it the gospel. Paul's letter is considered scripture, not your assumptions. So by the standard and authority of scripture the gospel is contained in the quotation above. Anyone who teaches differently is a false teacher.
You also say I do not want to do all that Jesus says. That is a false accusation, thereby you sinned against me. I forgive you, and I will continue to pray for you.

 

[williemac]

False statement.

You said you Romans 10:8-13 is the gospel message, and Those who teach differently than this are false teachers.


justaname:
"Romans 10:8-13
...
This is the gospel message...no additions from men or women are necessary. ... Those who teach differently than this are false teachers.
"


You left all the words Jesus out, and the four Gospels.

How can you leave the Gospels out of the Gospel???

.

There you go. Yet another person that you falsely accuse. O, and I'm not just talking about Justaname. I'm talking about your accusation of Paul being in error. Unless you can show us where he inserted the gospels somewhere in his letters. What (as the above reply also shows) Paul did was to summarize the gospel of salvation (1Cor.15:1-11) explain the principles of the gospel of salvation, and reveal the way to salvation, as seen in many places in his letters, not the least of which is Rom.10:9,10. We can find the word "gospel" no less than 70 times in Paul's letters, which is more times than the rest of the bible put together. If you have a problem with Rom.10:9,10, let's hear it. But why not also explain what Paul said in Rom.4:4,5...." Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace, but as debt. But to him who does not work, but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness".

The four "gospels" as they are called, are letters that were written about the life of Jesus while on earth, from His birth to His death and resurrection. I don't know who has convinced you that every last word written in these books are under the heading of "the gospel", but that is quite frankly an absurd notion.

The good news is that Jesus came to earth, showed us the Father, showed the sinful world grace and peace and kindness and forgiveness and love and compassion, then after having lived a righteous life on our behalf, He died for the sin of the world, taking the wrath of God upon Himself for sin, and revealed that all those who accept this offering by faith ..HAVE everlasting life as a result.

He said many things to many people during His time on earth. But that which is called "the gospel" is about what He did for us.

 

[IBeMe]

williemac: Yet another person that you falsely accuse.

False accusation.

williemac: I'm talking about your accusation of Paul being in error.

Goofy and False accusation.

williemac: Unless you can show us where he inserted the gospels somewhere in his letters.

Goofy!

williemac: What (as the above reply also shows)

Silly!

williemac: Paul did was to summarize the gospel of salvation (1Cor.15:1-11) explain the principles of the gospel of salvation, and reveal the way to salvation, as seen in many places in his letters, not the least of which is Rom.10:9,10.

The good news of Jesus Christ, is the Gospel!
1. the good news of Salvation
2. the instruction of Salvation

If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; ...

ALL of what Jesus said, who is The Word of God, is about the Gospel, instructions of eternal life.

ALL of what Paul said, is about the Gospel, instructions of eternal life.

All partakers in the Gospel, are commanded to teach all to observe ALL that Jesus commanded.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you ...

williemac: "(1Cor.15:1-11) explain the principles of the gospel of salvation"

True.
But, did you read the verses?

1Cor.15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

williemac: But why not also explain what Paul said in Rom.4:4,5...." Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace, but as debt. But to him who does not work, but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness".

I'd be glad to explain that.

We're saved by faith and then we follow God's instructions.

If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; ...

We're instructed not to receive anyone who doesn't teach the WHOLE Gospel message; the good news of Salvation and the doctrine of Christ.

Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

williemac: The four "gospels" as they are called, are letters that were written about the life of Jesus while on earth, from His birth to His death and resurrection. I don't know who has convinced you that every last word written in these books are under the heading of "the gospel", but that is quite frankly an absurd notion.

The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

The GOOD NEWS is Jesus Christ!

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

williemac: ..HAVE everlasting life as a result.

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed ...

williemac: He said many things to many people during His time on earth. But that which is called "the gospel" is about what He did for us.

The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; ...

.#####

justaname: This is what the bible calls the gospel: 1 Corinthians 15:1-11

Your scriptures contradict your false statement.

1 Corinthians 15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

The Gospel is the good news of Jesus Christ; taught by Jesus, the Disciples, and Paul (in that order).

justaname: It is you that add to the gospel and decide you have the authority to say what the gospel is above scripture.

.
False accusation.

You can't take the words of Jesus from the Gospel Message.

Nobody knows anything about God, except through Jesus.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Where do you think Paul got the Gospel Message from?

How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; ...

justaname: Paul did not use any of the quotes you use and he called it the gospel.

How do you know?

Paul taught that which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord.

... which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; ...

justaname: So by the standard and authority of scripture the gospel is contained in the quotation above.

The scriptures you give, contradicts what you teach.

Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

justaname: Anyone who teaches differently is a false teacher.

.
Nothing in the Bible contradicts those scriptures.

To try and limit the Gospel to just those scriptures, contradicts those scriptures.

Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

justaname: You also say I do not want to do all that Jesus says. That is a false accusation, thereby you sinned against me.

.
False statement.

You demand that our understanding of the Gospel be limited to only; "1 Corinthians 15:1-11"

Thus, you eliminate the words of Jesus.

I asked you, "Why don't you want to do ALL that Jesus says?"

Are you going to do ALL that Jesus says?

... Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded ...

.

 

[justaname]

False accusation.


Goofy and False accusation.


Goofy!

Silly!

The good news of Jesus Christ, is the Gospel!
1. the good news of Salvation
2. the instruction of Salvation

If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; ...

ALL of what Jesus said, who is The Word of God, is about the Gospel, instructions of eternal life.

ALL of what Paul said, is about the Gospel, instructions of eternal life.

All partakers in the Gospel, are commanded to teach all to observe ALL that Jesus commanded.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you ...

williemac: "(1Cor.15:1-11) explain the principles of the gospel of salvation"

True.
But, did you read the verses?

1Cor.15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.


I'd be glad to explain that.

We're saved by faith and then we follow God's instructions.

If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; ...

We're instructed not to receive anyone who doesn't teach the WHOLE Gospel message; the good news of Salvation and the doctrine of Christ.

Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:


The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

The GOOD NEWS is Jesus Christ!

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed ...

The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; ...

.#####

Your scriptures contradict your false statement.

1 Corinthians 15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

The Gospel is the good news of Jesus Christ; taught by Jesus, the Disciples, and Paul (in that order).


.
False accusation.

You can't take the words of Jesus from the Gospel Message.

Nobody knows anything about God, except through Jesus.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Where do you think Paul got the Gospel Message from?

How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; ...


How do you know?

Paul taught that which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord.

... which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; ...


The scriptures you give, contradicts what you teach.

Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.


.
Nothing in the Bible contradicts those scriptures.

To try and limit the Gospel to just those scriptures, contradicts those scriptures.

Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.


.
False statement.

You demand that our understanding of the Gospel be limited to only; "1 Corinthians 15:1-11"

Thus, you eliminate the words of Jesus.

I asked you, "Why don't you want to do ALL that Jesus says?"

Are you going to do ALL that Jesus says?

... Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded ...

.

I give you what the bible calls the gospel, it is you who is demanding more. I don't eliminate any of Jesus' words, that is another false accusation.

In the context of Paul's letter what is preached is contained in the section that is bolded in red:

1 Corinthians 15:1-11
1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;
7 then He appeared to aJames, then to all the apostles;
8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also.
9 For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.
11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

There is no contradiction of what is preached, it is contained in the scriptures clearly for all to read. The contradiction is in your improper interpretation and false authority.

 

[IBeMe]

justaname: I give you what the bible calls the gospel, it is you who is demanding more.

I'll give you what the Bible calls the Gospel in one place; but I won't be so silly as to demand that's the only place.

The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; ...........

Want to see how silly your demand that the Gospel is only "1 Corinthians 15:1-11" is?

Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.

Where is the woman with the alabaster box mentioned in "1 Corinthians 15:1-11"?

Jesus says it will be spoken of Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world.

How come you're leaving that out?

Your making a BIG silly ado about nothing.


.

 

[justaname]

I'll give you what the Bible calls the Gospel in one place; but I won't be so silly as to demand that's the only place.

The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; ...........

Want to see how silly your demand that the Gospel is only "1 Corinthians 15:1-11" is?

Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.

Where is the woman with the alabaster box mentioned in "1 Corinthians 15:1-11"?

Jesus says it will be spoken of Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world.

How come you're leaving that out?

Your making a BIG silly ado about nothing.


.

Yes, and the gospel Jesus was speaking of, of the woman washing his feet, does not lead to salvation.

This one clearly does:
1 Corinthians 15:1-11
1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;
7 then He appeared to aJames, then to all the apostles;
8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also.
9 For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.
11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

Why do you want to twist the gospel that leads to salvation, and by who's authority are you doing it?

 

[williemac]

I'll give you what the Bible calls the Gospel in one place; but I won't be so silly as to demand that's the only place.

The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; ...........

Want to see how silly your demand that the Gospel is only "1 Corinthians 15:1-11" is?

Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.

Where is the woman with the alabaster box mentioned in "1 Corinthians 15:1-11"?

Jesus says it will be spoken of Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world.

How come you're leaving that out?

Your making a BIG silly ado about nothing.


.

I think we should get back to being more civil with one another.

Now, I want to speak to this reply, as well. There seems to be some confusion about what actually constitues "the gospel". There is no mistaking that the term is used plenty of times in the new testament. We can clearly see that. But just because one can quote some of these passages doesn't mean that the contexts themselves are telling us just what the gospel actually is. However, Paul purposely cleared up the confusion when he summarized it in his letter to the Corinthians.

There are several titles that we can find concerning 'the gospel', as well. There is the gospel of Christ, the gospel of peace, the gospel of God, etc. But they all lead to the same destination: our salvation. The word "gospel" means "good news".

In Rom.1:16, Paul states that he was not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, "for it is the power of God to salvation" , for everyone who believes...." and if we want to listen to some people, we should add to that...."and then after that, works to keep it" . But alas, it does not say "after that". Some say it, but does the bible say it? Your version, if I have this right, is that faith is merely the entrance, the beginning, the first step, the first stage, but it is not what 'sustains' salvation. So if we can agree to get past all this bickering and finger pointing and useless ramblings, why don't we just concentrate on that one item. That is where the actual dispute is. Not so much how salvation is attained, but how it is "sustained".

Some say it is sustained by works, in so many words. Call it something else if you must. But we are talking about how our life is lived. This is what must be clarified once and for all in the body of Christ. This is an age old dispute, discussion, debate.

No one really disputes the presence of grace and faith within what is called "the gospel". The disagreement is in the "after". It is in what it takes to keep the gift of life and what it takes to lose it.

You already have heard my understanding. I have mentioned humility over and over. I have warned against venturing into the arena of boasting, over and over. I don't really think that some people are giving this the serious consideration that it deserves.

Thus, I will again insist that whatever we are to do "after" having received life, righteousness, the new man, the new birth, salvation, or whatever anyone wants to call it; Whatever we do "after that", we do with the same humble gratitude and thankfulness for God's mercy and grace that we always ought to have, and never think that anything we are doing would add to what Christ did for us in saving us, and never think that what we are doing or not doing is enough to merit a response from God.

For as Rom.4:4, 5 says, there will be no "debt" being paid by God in this matter. Not before, not after.

Are we going to accept that God would "trick" us into receiving the free gift of life only to slam the door on that business once we enter in, and demand that we merit keeping this gift? No, I can assure you that God will not OWE you,or I, or anyone else, everlasting life. We get it because He is good, not because we are.

Salvation is His glory, not ours.

Rom.11:33-36.........
33Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
34“For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has become His counselor?”
35“Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”
36For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.

 

[IBeMe]

justaname: Yes, and the gospel Jesus was speaking of, of the woman washing his feet, does not lead to salvation.

You're misquoting Jesus.

Jesus said that wherever THIS GOSPEL is preached, she would be mentioned.

justaname: ... does not lead to salvation.

Shamefully FALSE accusation against The Gospel Jesus Christ; as preached by Jesus Christ.

she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying

Jesus only preached one Gospel.

And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom ...

justaname: Why do you want to twist the gospel that leads to salvation, and by who's authority are you doing it?

I'm quoting Jesus, who is the Word of God; and you trying to contradict Jesus, who is the Word of God.

Show me where this is in 1 Corinthians 15:1-11?

In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Did you know all this is a part of the Gospel?

Show me where this is in 1 Corinthians 15:1-11?

But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

You'll notice Paul says; "... and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God ..."

What is the sound doctrine of the glorious gospel?

Shouldn't be hard to figure out when you realize that Jesus is the Word of God and we'll be judged by every word of Jesus.

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

.
#########################################

#########################################

williemac: There seems to be some confusion ...

Let me help you with that.

The good news is righteousness by faith in Jesus Christ, and abiding in the instructions of Jesus Christ.

If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

- It's God's Gospel.
- Jesus is the Word of God.
- God's words are the message of, and the rules of, God's Gospel.

... the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

williemac: Are we going to accept that God would "trick" us into receiving the free gift ...

Are we going to be so stupid as to try and blame God for our sin? (defiant and willful rejection of His instructions)

williemac: Salvation is His glory, not ours.

Sin is spitting on His glory.

... hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace ...

What you teach is contrary to the words of Jesus.

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

williemac: I can assure you that God will not OWE you,or I, or anyone else, everlasting life.

That's anti-bible and contrary to legal definitions.

God offers us a covenant.
God is the covenanter.
We have opportunity to be a covenantee.

The covenant is offered undeserved and free (by grace).

'a written agreement or promise usually under seal between two or more parties especially for the performance of some action'

If we enter the covenant, and fulfill the obligations of a covenantee , then we are owed the promise of the covenanter .

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

williemac: We get it because He is good, not because we are.

False.

We're offered the covenant by grace of God

We must fulfill the covenant to receive the promise of the covenant.

If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed


.

 

[justaname]

You're misquoting Jesus.

Jesus said that wherever THIS GOSPEL is preached, she would be mentioned.



Shamefully FALSE accusation against The Gospel Jesus Christ; as preached by Jesus Christ.

she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying

Jesus only preached one Gospel.

And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom ...



I'm quoting Jesus, who is the Word of God; and you trying to contradict Jesus, who is the Word of God.

Show me where this is in 1 Corinthians 15:1-11?

In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Did you know all this is a part of the Gospel?

Show me where this is in 1 Corinthians 15:1-11?

But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

You'll notice Paul says; "... and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God ..."

What is the sound doctrine of the glorious gospel?

Shouldn't be hard to figure out when you realize that Jesus is the Word of God and we'll be judged by every word of Jesus.

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

.
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Let me help you with that.

The good news is righteousness by faith in Jesus Christ, and abiding in the instructions of Jesus Christ.

If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

- It's God's Gospel.
- Jesus is the Word of God.
- God's words are the message of, and the rules of, God's Gospel.

... the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.



Are we going to be so stupid as to try and blame God for our sin? (defiant and willful rejection of His instructions)



Sin is spitting on His glory.

... hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace ...

What you teach is contrary to the words of Jesus.

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.



That's anti-bible and contrary to legal definitions.

God offers us a covenant.
God is the covenanter.
We have opportunity to be a covenantee.

The covenant is offered undeserved and free (by grace).

'a written agreement or promise usually under seal between two or more parties especially for the performance of some action'

If we enter the covenant, and fulfill the obligations of a covenantee , then we are owed the promise of the covenanter .

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.



False.

We're offered the covenant by grace of God

We must fulfill the covenant to receive the promise of the covenant.

If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed


.

So then belief in the woman washing Jesus' feet leads to salvation? This is what you are teaching in this post. You truly have a misconstrued view of the gospel.

I have no need to further this conversation, I have shown you where you are in error, and you further your own error in your posts. Instead of moving forward you are making large steps backwards. I will continue to pray for you.

God Bless.

 

[williemac]

IBEME: What is the sound doctrine of the glorious gospel?

Shouldn't be hard to figure out when you realize that Jesus is the Word of God and we'll be judged by every word of Jesus.

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

-----------------------------------------------------------.
Thank you for your reply. In regards to this passage, notice that the judgment on the last day ( the Great White Throne) is not for believers in Jesus, but rather for those who reject Him, as He said. These are the unsaved, not the saved. After all, we are assured that for they/we who are partakers of the first resurrection, the second death has no power.

On the other hand, we/they who accept Him by faith are assure NOT to come into this judgment, but HAVE everlasting life, and HAVE passed from death to life. And this too, is part of the glorious gospel of truth. (John 5:24)

So then, the key to life is not contained in surviving His judgement, but rather exemption from judgment unto condemnation.

Let me help you with that.

The good news is righteousness by faith in Jesus Christ, and abiding in the instructions of Jesus Christ.

If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

- It's God's Gospel.
- Jesus is the Word of God.
- God's words are the message of, and the rules of, God's Gospel.

Let me help you as well. The good news is salvation by grace, through faith in His work and sacrifice. Abiding in His instructions comes after having been granted everlasting life and is not part of the qualification for it. Now that is even better news than your version. Is this not a BETTER covenant? Based on BETTER promises?

Notice Jesus did not say "obey My commandments". He said "continue in My word". You are reading your own ideas into His words, taking liberties in putting your own words in the passage, and thus making it about working for salvation rather than living in it.

His "word" regarding everlasting life, is that it comes by faith in Him. (eg.John 3:16, 6:50,51) What you are doing is failing to recognize the categories involved in the various things that the bible says, and therefore lumping them all together in regards to qualification for life. God's word contains at least two covenants. By your rule of thumb, we should be under both. But we are not. They are not both included in "the gospel". Justification is its own category, with its own set of parameters.

Are we going to be so stupid as to try and blame God for our sin? (defiant and willful rejection of His instructions)

Sin is spitting on His glory.

... hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace ...

What you teach is contrary to the words of Jesus.

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

1John.2:1..."My little children, I write these thingsto you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father...."

No one is blaming God for our sin. What the gospel is declaring is that the whole human race is stricken with sin and requires a solution. God has offered the solution, by first reconciling the world to Himslef through the sacrifice of His Son for sin. And then His promise is to do away with our species altogether and create a new one, by His Seed in us.

It is not sin that trods underfoot the Son of god, it is willful sin 'in rejecting His sacrifice through unbelief' (its all in the context).

Which is more an insult to grace....sinning, or setting grace aside and working for salvation?

Where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more. But where self righteousness abounds, grace is set aside and is absent.....Heb.10:39...."...but we are not of those who fall back to perdition, but of those who BELIEVE to the saving of the soul.

Falling back is not from the sin of the flesh, it is from the pride of life, in the attempt to justify oneself rather than allow the sacrifice to be our justification.

This in no way justifies sin in the believer. But we can clearly see how Jesus deals with that...which is by way of chastening, and NOT BY WAY OF CONDEMNATION, or withdrawing the covering of His sacrifice.

And to cover your last point on the covenant of grace: Our part is to believe in His promise and humbly accept His offer. His part was/IS to make the promise and accomplish it Himself....WITHOUT OUR ASSISTANCE.

Jesus said "you are my friends if you do what I command you" In the first place, He did not say you are doing your part of the covenant if you obey My commands, which is what you are implying. Furthermore, you are including the moral law in this liberty you are taking with His words.

As far as His command for the church goes, it is to believe on Him and to love one another (1John 3:23). He told His disciples that this was a new commandment. LOVE. Love is the fulfillment of the law. Jesus will say..." inasmuch as you did it to the least of these, My bretheren, you did it unto Me" You might want to read that list. It contains, not what we didn't do, but what we DID do.

Did He not assure us that in even the giving a cup of water to a thirsty man, one would by no means lose his reward? Our works and our obedience in HIM are for future rewards. They are not for salvation.

 

[IBeMe]

williemac: After all, we are assured that for they/we who are partakers of the first resurrection, the second death has no power.

You won't be a partaker ... unless ...

Not every one ... but he that doeth the will of my Father ...

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.


williemac: On the other hand, we/they who accept Him by faith are assure NOT to come into this judgment, but HAVE everlasting life, and HAVE passed from death to life. And this too, is part of the glorious gospel of truth. (John 5:24)

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

You don't heareth my word unless you hear, and take heed to this; "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed ...", and everything else Jesus says.

Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

... a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.


williemac: So then, the key to life is not contained in surviving His judgement, but rather exemption from judgment unto condemnation.

That would be turning grace into lasciviousness.

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.


williemac: Notice Jesus did not say "obey My commandments". He said "continue in My word".

Are you analphabetic?

... if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life ...

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.


williemac: You are reading your own ideas into His words, taking liberties in putting your own words in the passage, and thus making it about working for salvation rather than living in it.

Christians are warned not to receive what you teach.

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.


williemac: By your rule of thumb, we should be under both.

Are you truth challenged?

Live by God's rule!

... if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

... If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.


williemac: 1John.2:1..."My little children, I write these thingsto you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father...."

If we sin through ignorance, as we learn and grow in the Word.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins ... certain ... judgment ...

God is in charge of His judgement and punishment.

In the Bible, God is shown to have a lot of mercy on those who sincerely repent (stop) and accept the punishment.


williemac: And then His promise is to do away with our species altogether and create a new one, by His Seed in us.

Did you get this from a SiFy movie?


williemac: It is not sin that trods underfoot the Son of god, it is willful sin 'in rejecting His sacrifice through unbelief' (its all in the context).

Analphabetic analyses.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth ...


williemac: Which is more an insult to grace....sinning, or setting grace aside and working for salvation?

Answer: Trying to contradict the scriptures to turn grace into lasciviousness.

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.


williemac: Where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more.

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.


williemac: Heb.10:39...."...but we are not of those who fall back to perdition, but of those who BELIEVE to the saving of the soul.

Unless you do fall back, or teach that this scriptures indicates that you can't fall back.

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.


williemac: Falling back is not from the sin of the flesh, it is from the pride of life, in the attempt to justify oneself rather than allow the sacrifice to be our justification.

Sin is breaking God's commandments, no matter what kind if really silly excuse you come up with to try and pathetically justify it.


williemac: This in no way justifies sin in the believer. But we can clearly see how Jesus deals with that...which is by way of chastening, and NOT BY WAY OF CONDEMNATION, or withdrawing the covering of His sacrifice.

If we repent and stop:

Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

If we don't stop:

For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.


williemac: And to cover your last point on the covenant of grace: Our part is to believe in His promise and humbly accept His offer. His part was/IS to make the promise and accomplish it Himself....WITHOUT OUR ASSISTANCE.

Contrary to what you say, Jesus says our part is to do what He says.

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Why do you keep trying to contradict Jesus?


williemac: Jesus said "you are my friends if you do what I command you" In the first place, He did not say you are doing your part of the covenant if you obey My commands, which is what you are implying. Furthermore, you are including the moral law in this liberty you are taking with His words.

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Why do you keep trying to contradict Jesus?


williemac: As far as His command for the church goes, it is to believe on Him and to love one another (1John 3:23).

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Why do you keep trying to contradict Jesus?


williemac: LOVE.

You don't LOVE Jesus, unless you do what He says.

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: ...

Why do you keep trying to contradict Jesus?


williemac: Did He not assure us that in even the giving a cup of water to a thirsty man, one would by no means lose his reward? Our works and our obedience in HIM are for future rewards. They are not for salvation.

The covenantee must fulfill the requirements of the covenanter to receive the promise of the covenant.

.

 

[williemac]

There are requirements that place people into the covenant, requirements that keep people in the covenant, and instructions given to those who are in the covenant. They are not all the same.

The requirement for getting in is to humbly accept and believe the promise of God.

The new covenant is a better one than the old and based on better promises. The foundation of our covenant is a promise that God made to Abraham. The only thing he was expected to do and required to do as his part in the covenant was to believe God.

The requirement for staying in the covenant is to not waiver from the initial requirement.

That is our requirement as covenantors. The law was added because of transgressions. It was given to Moses on Mount Sinai and its purpose was to stop every mouth and declare the whole world guilty before God.

Jesus said that after He is gone, He would send the Holy Spirit...another helper. The indication is that the Holy Spirit would take over in His absence. One of the things Jesus said about the Holy Spirit is that He would convince (convict) the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8). And Jesus expounded..." Of sin because they do not believe in Me"...(16:9).

So how do we convince the world of sin? What tool do we use? The law, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. And who qualifies to be convicted of sin? As Jesus said...those who do not believe in Me.

So who needs to hear the law? Unbelievers. They need to know they are guilty and require salvation.

But how do we get 'believers' to behave themselves? Do we use the law? Do we declare them guilty? Or do we rather pour the truth into their heart, that they have been made righteous? Those who hammer their brothers and sisters with the law, do they not understand that the strength of sin is the law? The message of the law is that "your a sinner". And we know that as a man thinketh in his heart..."so is he" Guilt and shame carry with them a self image. The believer needs to be convinced of his righteous nature, not his sin.

The preaching of grace is not what turns grace into lasciviousness. Telling people that sin is ok because of grace is what turns it into licentiousness. No one is doing that here.

The love of God is what changes the heart. "Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more". "Those who are forgiven much, love much".

It is the preaching of unforgiveness that is the biggest offense, and biggest hinderance to fruit. The promise contained within the covenant of God is that "their sins and lawless deeds I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE" . (Heb.10:17)
Forgiveness of sin is the foundational promise of the covenant. How then is it withdrawn within the covenant? Answer...It is not! A few verses later, Heb.10:26, is not meant to be applied to those in the covenant, but the context clearly shows that this is about those who are not under the sacrifice of Jesus, having rejected it, therefore, for them, there no longer remains any sacrifice, as the old ones have been replaced. . But we are NOT of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who BELIEVE to the saving of the soul"

This is a better covenant based on better promises, with a perpetual offering for sin. (1John2:1) Our High Priest is at the right hand of God, making intercession for us. This is not licentiousness. This is the power to live in righteousness.

 

[IBeMe]

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williemac: The new covenant is a better one than the old and based on better promises. The foundation of our covenant is a promise that God made to Abraham. The only thing he was expected to do and required to do as his part in the covenant was to believe God.
----------

What you teach is anti-Bible.

And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.



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williemac: The requirement for staying in the covenant is to not waiver from the initial requirement.
----------

What you teach is anti-words of Jesus.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

We shall be judged by every word of Jesus.

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.



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williemac: The indication is that the Holy Spirit would take over in His absence.
----------

Really?

Now ye are the body of Christ ... A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. And he called his ... servants, ... and said unto them, Occupy till I come.



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williemac: So how do we convince the world of sin? What tool do we use? The law, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. And who qualifies to be convicted of sin? As Jesus said...those who do not believe in Me.
----------

Are you from Galatia?

Those who follow Jesus don't need to ask that question, they just do what Jesus said to do.

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.



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williemac: So who needs to hear the law? Unbelievers.
----------

Weird stuff!!!

You are going to be teaching the Mosaic Law???



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williemac: But how do we get 'believers' to behave themselves? Do we use the law? Do we declare them guilty? Or do we rather pour the truth into their heart, that they have been made righteous?
----------

How come you ignore Jesus's specific instructions?

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you



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williemac: Those who hammer their brothers and sisters with the law, do they not understand that the strength of sin is the law?
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Are you from Galatia? ... Doesn't make any sense ... We're not under the Mosaic Law.



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williemac: The believer needs to be convinced of his righteous nature, not his sin.
----------

Believers need to learn the Word so they can recognize weird goofy doctrines.

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.



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williemac: The preaching of grace is not what turns grace into lasciviousness.
----------

False teachings, such as W:"perpetual offering for sin" try to turn grace into lasciviousness.

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.



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williemac: The preaching of grace ...
----------

What you teach is anti-grace.

We enter the covenant by "grace"; a favor rendered by one who need not do so; indulgence.

We must abide by the covenant's binding agreement to receive the covenanter's promise.

Covenant's binding agreement: "... Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded ..."

Your continuous attempts to void the covenant's binding agreement also voids "grace"; "hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace".



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williemac: It is the preaching of unforgiveness that is the biggest offense, and biggest hinderance to fruit. The promise contained within the covenant of God is that "their sins and lawless deeds I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE"
----------

Who's teaching unforgiveness? ... Show me.

It's anti-grace doctrines that try to nullify grace by obfuscating the covenant's binding agreement that the Bible warns about.

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.



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williemac: Forgiveness of sin is the foundational promise of the covenant. How then is it withdrawn within the covenant? Answer...It is not!
----------

Wilful sinning voids the contract.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Then it's between you and God, but there will be certain judgement and punishment.

Sincere repentance (stop) goes a long ways with God.



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williemac: A few verses later, Heb.10:26, is not meant to be applied to those in the covenant, ...
----------

That's analphabet!

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.



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williemac: But we are NOT of those who draw back to perdition ...
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Unless you do!

But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.



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williemac: This is a better covenant based on better promises, with a perpetual offering for sin. (1John2:1) Our High Priest is at the right hand of God, making intercession for us. This is not licentiousness. This is the power to live in righteousness.
----------

Very Anti-Bible teaching; "perpetual offering"

Moses couldn't cross over Jordan because he smote the rock twice; being a symbol of Jesus being smitten once.

You're having some analphabetic and truth issues.

The scripture doesn't say "perpetual offering"; it says, "we have an advocate".

Who's our advocate? ... Who said what? ... "Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."

If we sin through ignorance (read Leviticus), we have an advocate.

If we wrong a brother; we are to go to the brother and ask forgiveness, and then go to God.

Wilful defiance against God's commandments is another matter: "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God."

Christians are warned not to receive those teaching other doctrines.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

What you teach isn't in the Bible; "perpetual offering".

We enter the covenant by GRACE.

Wilful sinning is a violation of the rules of the covenant; Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded ...

When we break the rules of the covenant, we remove all responsibility of the covenanter to fulfill the promise of the covenant.

As for our advocate; "hath trodden under foot the Son of God."

Wilful sinning is willful forfeiture (the act of losing or surrendering something as a penalty for a mistake or fault or failure to perform) of all obligations of the covenanter to covenantee.

wilful sinning = "hath not God"

"hath not God" = zero advocate

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Such teachings are Anti-Grace because they nullify the performance of the promises of Grace.

.

 

[williemac]

Good reply. Many good points. However, you say we are not under Mosaic law. The bible says we are not under "law". The word Mosaic" is not found there. So in other words, you are saying we are actually under law, but just not the Mosaic law? Yes? No?

 

[IBeMe]

... Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded ...

 

[williemac]

... Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded ...

That doesn't answer my question. What's the difference between what Jesus commands, and the so called "Mosaic" law?

For example, here is a quote from Luke 10:25-28:

25And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
26He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”
27So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’ ”
28And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”

Which law was Jesus referring to? Are you telling us that this was not what you call the Mosaic law?

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I see you have not replied. Maybe you are thinking about it. In the meantime, you quoted this passage to me:

And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Here is what you are failing to see. God told Isaac "because Abraham obeyed My voice"..

There are a few things that the word of God establishes; First; "there is none righteous, no not one". Second, " all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". Third. Rom.5:14, "death reigned from Adam to Moses" (and of course, beyond, in the descendants of Moses). Then the following verses explain this in detail, that it was one man's offense that brought sin and death to the entire human race. Abraham would have been included in this. He was not righteous through his works. He was not perfect in his obedience.

However, just as in the quote you gave me, in the many benefiting from the one, from Rom.5:19, it is also through One Man's obedience that many are made righteous.

As well, in Gal.3:16, Paul reveals this:.." Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say " and to seeds", as of many, but as of one " And to your Seed", who is Christ.

So, we are not they to whom the promises were made. But we are beneficiaries of the promise. In fact, we are the fulfillment of the promise, being included among those who are numbered as the sand of the sea.

The covenant was not made with us. We are merely partakers of it. Beneficiaries of it. We are not "in covenant", but rather "in THE covenant". And how did we enter into it?

Gal.3:6-15 6just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” 9So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”
13Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”),14that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. " (not that they don't try)

So I ask the same question, "what part of ONE MAN escapes your comprehension?" Are we partakers by repeating His works, or by way of benifiting from His works through faith? I say the latter. So does the bible. Abraham's righteous status was not from his obedience to God's laws. It was from his faith.

As well, you disagree that the blood of Christ offers a perpetual offering for sin. But Heb.10:14 states that "He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.". This cannot be stated if the forgiveness for sin is temporary. Your basis for disagreement is from your version and intepretation of Heb.10:26. in that you make a distinction betwenn deliberate sin and sin done in ignorance.

So I ask you, which of those was the adultry that the woman was caught in, for which Jesus chose not to throw a stone or condemn? It was deliberate. But He forgave anyway. And of the sins and lawless deeds that God said He would remember no more, are these merely those done in ignorance? Lawless deeds? Which of these brings about the curse; the deliberate ones or the accidental ones? BOTH! Give it up, friend. You are swimming upstream on this subject.

 

[IBeMe]

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williemac: That doesn't answer my question. What's the difference between what Jesus commands, and the so called "Mosaic" law?
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If you can't understand this, then you won't be able to understand anything in the Bible.

... Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded ...



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williemac: He was not perfect in his obedience.
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You quote this:

... Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Then contradict the very words of God.

"He was not perfect in his obedience."

At least you're consistent; consistently trying to contradict the scriptures.


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williemac: The covenant was not made with us. We are merely partakers of it. Beneficiaries of it. We are not "in covenant", but rather "in THE covenant".
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You defy the very words of God, the dictionary definition of "covenant", and all forms of logic.

God says ... Thou shalt keep my covenant ... and thy seed after thee in their generations.

You can't hear Jesus?

... Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded ...



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williemac: So I ask the same question ...
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Straw-Man question ignored.



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williemac: As well, you disagree that the blood of Christ offers a perpetual offering for sin. But Heb.10:14 states that "He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.". This cannot be stated if the forgiveness for sin is temporary
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Analphabetic statement: defies the dictionary and the words of Jesus.

The word, "forgive", isn't constrained to temporary or perpetual.

forgive: to grant relief from payment of

You try to contradict Jesus.

Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

It's rather slithery sleazy to imply that non-perpetual means temporary.



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williemac: Your basis for disagreement is from your version and intepretation of Heb.10:26. in that you make a distinction betwenn deliberate sin and sin done in ignorance.
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It would help if you'd read the Bible; Leviticus in particular.

God makes a distinction between sins of ignorance and deliberate sins, because He is a kind and just God.



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williemac: So I ask you, which of those was the adultry that the woman was caught in, for which Jesus chose not to throw a stone or condemn? It was deliberate. But He forgave anyway.
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And then???

"... go, and sin no more."



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williemac: Which of these brings about the curse; the deliberate ones or the accidental ones?
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Not surprising, you try to change God's word, "ignorance", to, "accidental".



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williemac: Which of these brings about the curse; the deliberate ones or the accidental ones? BOTH! Give it up, friend. You are swimming upstream on this subject.
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Analphabetic, read Leviticus.

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