Salvation has nothing to do with "deciding to follow"
Salvation is Christ on the Cross dying for your sin so that God have have you. and keep you.
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Salvation has nothing to do with "deciding to follow"
Salvation is Christ on the Cross dying for your sin so that God have have you. and keep you.
I don't know how long you are going to do it, but the "Grace not works" crowd overlook the importance of keeping your own faith alive.
If you are keeping your own faith alive, you don't condemn yourself for wanting to do the Works of God - you embrace it, because it means that your inspiration is working!
They "Ah! But you can't get to Heaven on your own!" as if God is not going to be pleased if He comes and finds you doing His Work.
Really, you need to think about this: "am I inspired, or not?" "Does that inspiration come with works, or not?" "Will God complete those works, or will he reject them?"
You won't get this, unless you get a Revelation of His Love, but the Lord is coming - the time will come when everyone is welcomed and given respect for what they have done for the Lord.
If you are keeping your own faith alive, you don't condemn yourself for wanting to do the Works of God - you embrace it, because it means that your inspiration is working!
They "Ah! But you can't get to Heaven on your own!" as if God is not going to be pleased if He comes and finds you doing His Work.
Really, you need to think about this: "am I inspired, or not?" "Does that inspiration come with works, or not?" "Will God complete those works, or will he reject them?"
You won't get this, unless you get a Revelation of His Love, but the Lord is coming - the time will come when everyone is welcomed and given respect for what they have done for the Lord.
ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
Christians serve God, do the work of God, because they are saved. Not so to keep their salvation.
Yes. But you should remind people that their faith is working. Reminding people that works won't save them, is legalistic and obfuscating.
If I said "whatever work I do, God has done better" would you intercede and say "indeed much better!" or would you say "remember your inspiration, it won't be long before you are in Heaven"?
I don't despise you, but quoting verse after verse, to try and prove your tradition is valid, is tiresome.
How many verses will the Holy Spirit quote, when He comes?
ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
I'd think pushing works salvation would be tiresome.
You don't despise me? What an odd thing to say.
And we, too, being called by his will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have done in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. (First Clement 32)
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
Disciples of Christ who don't turn back are fit for the kingdom of heaven.
Spread the Word.
Here are more of those "Grace not works" Crowd, Gottservant.
1.) The Law came by Moses, but GRACE and Truth came by Jesus Christ.
2.) Paul's Gospel is the "Gospel of the GRACE of God"
That doesn't sound right "only a few have the holy spirit"? I would think God commands the earth with his Holy Spirit and almost everyone is subject to that. The constant companion is also not rare.
Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.
ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
Do you get the feeling the false doctrine crowd push just to see how long we'll try to change their minds?
Not one part of the NT or the Old that refer to Christ or the coming new covenant ever says we have to work to insure we are saved.
At this point it's stupid,not ignorance, for someone to insist upon that. Because it vacated the entire meaning of grace.
Ignorance may be educated. Obstinate repeat errant behavior is opposed. What Christian denies the full work of Christ on the cross?
And the fact we,we, are told, our salvation through grace is not of ourselves.
Which is why those who boast it is are exposed by that very scripture.
All of the "religious but lost", believe they are to keep this and do that, to try to end up in heaven, they hope.
Most of the born again, are trying to do the same, while they pretend they trust in Christ.
Paul says in (Galatians) they are "fallen from Grace" and "in the Flesh".
This is the carnal mind trying to "do Christianity", and you find these people always talking about 1 John 1:9, and how they sin, and how you do also, they believe.
ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
That chapter leads so many to lose confidence in salvation.
They don't realize it is employing first person in order to relate the gospel of salvation to the sinners to whom they are speaking.
Imagine a room full of people thinking they don't sin, they don't need to hear this.
So you relate to that. If we say we have no sin.....
In order to expand on the need for redemption because all have sinned.
I've met a few people who say they're Christian and admit they're also sinners still.
It's a strange thing and odd that they don't realize they've cancelled our the Christian part by saying they're also sinners still. They don't get it. And in my experience we can never change those minds.
Some retort, do you sin? Are you perfect?
They just don't get it. 1 Corinthians 2:14
1John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's[b] seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
We cannot be " In Christ" except by accepting HIS D,B and R !
However our work in Christ is our stewardship or discipleship in him.
In that our first duty is to spread and share the Gospel of Jesus; the author of the New Testament.
We are to follow these 3 commands of Jesus, love the Lord, our God with and in everything we have, do or say, love our neighbor as ourselves, in doing this we will do and say good unto our fellow man and to love the brethren, by this shall THEY know ye are my disciples.
To disallow that there is work as a believer is to deny the work of Christ Jesus. He did the work or will of the Father by submitting himself to a position of a servant, born of the flesh, committing unto death for our salvation.
Salvation is the gift of the hope of eternal life found only by accepting or believing in HIM WHOM DIED FOR US.
Traditions or rituals even denominal doctrines will NEVER get one into the kingdom, NEVER!
Did Jesus not do God's work ?
Did the Apostles not do Christ's work?
I see here a failure to rightly divide and understand the whole of the word of God, if we neglect so great a salvation !
However our work in Christ is our stewardship or discipleship in him.
In that our first duty is to spread and share the Gospel of Jesus; the author of the New Testament.
We are to follow these 3 commands of Jesus, love the Lord, our God with and in everything we have, do or say, love our neighbor as ourselves, in doing this we will do and say good unto our fellow man and to love the brethren, by this shall THEY know ye are my disciples.
To disallow that there is work as a believer is to deny the work of Christ Jesus. He did the work or will of the Father by submitting himself to a position of a servant, born of the flesh, committing unto death for our salvation.
Salvation is the gift of the hope of eternal life found only by accepting or believing in HIM WHOM DIED FOR US.
Traditions or rituals even denominal doctrines will NEVER get one into the kingdom, NEVER!
Did Jesus not do God's work ?
Did the Apostles not do Christ's work?
I see here a failure to rightly divide and understand the whole of the word of God, if we neglect so great a salvation !
And by quoting that with the emphasis on GRACE, you make Grace a "Law"
Indeed, and not Grace separate from the Gospel
What about telling me exactly what about Salvation by Grace is inspiring?
I understand not trying to earn Salvation, why would that inspire me?
1. Paul did NOT have a gospel.
2. He preached the gospel of Jesus Christ.
3. Hyper grace iow, we do NOTHING, is not biblical !
4. The New Testament is the New Covenant by the D,B,and R of his Son who is the propitiation for our sins; JESUS not Paul.
5. Not to hear you boast again but I pray that God hasn't let anyone adhere to your version of "grace"!
Better yet that they had teachers that rightly divided the word and taught babes how to ween off the milk of the word and become meat eaters!
2. He preached the gospel of Jesus Christ.
3. Hyper grace iow, we do NOTHING, is not biblical !
4. The New Testament is the New Covenant by the D,B,and R of his Son who is the propitiation for our sins; JESUS not Paul.
5. Not to hear you boast again but I pray that God hasn't let anyone adhere to your version of "grace"!
Better yet that they had teachers that rightly divided the word and taught babes how to ween off the milk of the word and become meat eaters!
the word "righteousness" there, does not mean "self righteousness".
Self Righteousness would be....>"if i do this, and if i do that.... if i keep the law and commandments, if i get in the water tank.......if i go to church a lot, if i Tithe, if i spend a lot of time on Forums"..
See all that?
Notice what isn't there?
= JESUS.
Jesus isnt in any of that, as all of those things are what a person does, and salvation is not what you do, its what Jesus did for you.
Salvation is the shed blood and death of Jesus that God offers as His Salvation.
"we" ... have no part in that, other than to RECEIVE God's Salvation, by faith.
ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
Those 2 commands?
Are those upon which all the law and the prophets hang.
I did not refer to self righteousness. Nor does the scripture I cited.
Matthew 22:
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
and i might also add that the gospel peter , CHRIST , james and john and others preached WAS THE SAME GOSPEL .
THERE is only one gospel and it goeth out to the jew and to the gentile .
RAISE THOSE HANDS SISTER . James and paul were not at odds with one another . THEY AGREED .
As does every letter in that bible . Folks just like to twist stuff
Self righteousness, is trying to make self right with God by deeds and wrong faith.
A self righteous person will say.... "God, im keeping this and doing that and so, there is my performance, ... now take me to heaven".
God says... "I'll only save you based on what my Son Jesus did for you on the Cross". "Hell is being filled by law and commandment keepers who are water baptized".
Reader, who is going to win that disagreement?
ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
You'll have to address that to someone whose earlier post referred to self righteousness.
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