When and why will God end our world?

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Marty fox

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To get to the answer of this question we need to go to the only true source the bible and see when and why did God judge the world before. The only time this happened was back in Genesis chapters 4, 5 and 6. There is much to learn about the end times in these three chapters more than most people think. The main part of the text is found in Genesis chapter 6:1-8

Genesis 6:1-8
when human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

Many people believe that the sons of God were fallen angels who fornicated and had children with female human beings thus making the world so evil that God decided to destroy civilization. Could this be? Could spiritual beings actually fornicate with human beings and have offspring even though Paul shows us in 1 Corinthians 15 that the heavenly bodies have a different splendor than human bodies? Would God really allow this to happen?

I believe that the sons of God were the faithful sons from the line of Seth and that the daughters of men were the unfaithful daughters from the unfaithful line of Cain.

In these three chapters of Genesis we see that the descendants of Seth were faithful to God while the descendants of Cain were unfaithful. What we read about the descendants of Cain is the great accomplishments they made which is not bad in its self but it is if it’s their highest priority. When we read about Seth's descendants we see that they were great men of God who had many children and lived long lives but this was not attributed to Cain’s descendants.

God warns the faithful people many times to not mix with the unfaithful in the Old Testament and the reason for this is to keep the faithful from being corrupted. We read that one of the reasons that the sons of God were attracted to the daughters of men was because of their beauty not because of love so the reason that they fornicated with them was for lust not love.

But there must be more to the reason that the sons of God were attracted to the daughters of men because there would also have been many beautiful women from the line of Seth.

Lamech gives us the reason for this in Genesis chapter 5

Genesis 5:28-29
28 When Lamech had lived 182 years, he had a son. 29 He named him Noah[c] and said, “He will comfort us in the labor and painful toil of our hands caused by the ground the LORD has cursed.”

The faithful people of God began to lose faith and complain about the pain and burden of working a cursed soil. Lamech named his son Noah which means rest as he thought that Noah would bring his people comfort and rest.

What the daughters of men offered the sons of God was Autonomy

Autonomy

1. The right or condition of self-government.

A self-governing country or region.

• Freedom from external control or influence; independence.

Self-government · independence · self-rule · home rule · sovereignty ·

The daughters of men offered the sons of God the autonomy they desired. The sons of God saw the great accomplishments and advances of the sons of men. The sons of men lived a self-governed and independent life aside from God. This enticed the sons of God so they intermarried with the daughters of men and put aside the ways of the Lord and lived their own self determined lives.

We see the first example of autonomy in the Garden of Eden with Eve. Eve decided that she wanted more than the life God had determined for her she also wanted to be just like God. Satan knew this and tempted Eve and told her that she could have this if she ate the forbidden fruit.

How much different are we the church today? While the world is full of people living their own independent autonomous lives away from God, God’s predetermined choices for them have become negatives like race, gender, sexual orientation, child bearing and child raising. What God determined for them becomes non spiritual and non-important but is the church much different today?

We the church need to remember that our children and our families are watching us. We need to be good stewards with what God has given us including our children and make the right life choices. We only have a few short impactful years with our children and the lack of good Godly examples as well as being influenced by worldly views are reasons that the church youth today are leaving the church in high numbers when they graduate from school. The autonomy of the world is becoming very attractive to them and the conforming is so slow and so subtle that we conform before we realize it and it is a struggle and sometimes too late to turn back.

The seed of the serpent is independence from God which is attractive to the world and the seed of God in constant dependence on him. One way God keeps us dependent on Him is through our bodies as our bodies need clothes, food and shelter to survive this keeps us dependent on God which keeps us spiritually close to Him thus our bodies and our souls work together.

Back in Genesis over time while dwelling with the unfaithful the faithful conformed to the ways of man until the faithful came down to just one man Noah. The ways of the Lord was lost as the people lived for themselves and not for the Lord thus the whole world except Noah became wicked and filled with violence. The reason that God decided to destroy the human race with the flood was not because the world was so evil it always has been evil and still is today the reason was due to the conforming ways to the self-determined Lives of the faithful and it came down to just one man Noah.

The world today looks very much like it did back before the flood and the boat has left the shore and it’s not turning back just like it didn’t in Noah’s day. God will still reach people as He still extends His grace and mercy just like He did with Noah’s family.

God protected the line of the faithful throughout the bible and still continues to do so today and Jesus promised that the gates of hell will not overcome the church. God will step in and save the church before it’s overcome. I believe that Genesis chapters 4, 5 and 6 serves as warning for the church and the church today needs to depend more on God and stop conforming and live the life that God has determined for us. This very same reason for the flood will be the very same reason that God will destroy the world in the future by fire.

The faithful are once again slowly conforming to the ways of the world and I believe when the church stops growing we hold back the advancement of Holy Spirit and we release satan to influence ours and others lives. When this happens we the church, the camp of God’s people, the city God loves find ourselves out numbered and surrounded by the autonomous people of the world and then God will act.

Revelation 20:7-9
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Romans 12:1-2
1Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
 

Davy

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AMAZING! Right off the bat the OP says The Bible is the source of the matter, and then the post immediately begins to DENY God's Truth of The Bible as written!

No, the "sons of God" WERE NOT the flesh sons of Seth.

Yes, the "sons of God" WERE ANGELS THAT TOOK WIVES OF FLESH WOMAN, and their offspring was a hybrid race of GIANTS.

Yes, NOAH was PERFECT IN HIS GENERATIONS, meaning Noah had NOT mixed with any of that seed of Nephilim, for the same Hebrew word for an unblemished sacrificial animal required per God's old covenant is used for the KJV word "perfect" about Noah's geneaology! THAT means THE SUBJECT OF GENESIS 6 IS ESPECIALLY ABOUT BLOODLINE PURITY!
_______________________________________________________

Testimony by Buffalo Bill in his Autobiography, The Life of Honorable William F. Cody (1879).

"While we were in the sand hills, scouting the Niobrara country, the Pawnee Indians brought into camp some very large bones, one of which the surgeon of the expedition pronounced to be the thigh-bone of a human being. The Indians claimed that the bones they had found were those of a person belonging to a race of people who a long time ago lived in this country; that there was once a race of men on the earth whose size was about three times that of an ordinary man, and they were so swift and powerful that they could run along-side of a buffalo, and taking the animal in one arm could tear off a leg and eat the meat as they walked."

_________________________________________________________


BEWARE BRETHREN IN CHRIST:

There are some that come to Christian Forums determined to push man's theories of evolution instead of the Revelations actually written in God's Word. God's written Word contains many Truths which are hard for many to understand, something which even Apostle Peter in 2 Peter 3 pointed out in Paul's Epistles regarding the topic of world earth ages.

God's Word actually teaches about THREE WORLD EARTH AGES, not just the flood of Noah's time, and then this present world we are in now. There was a previous world to Adam and Eve, and it was when God said that Satan was "perfect in his ways", a time when Satan actually served GOD and had not rebelled yet. See my thread The World Before (The World Before, Truly).
 

Marty fox

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AMAZING! Right off the bat the OP says The Bible is the source of the matter, and then the post immediately begins to DENY God's Truth of The Bible as written!

No, the "sons of God" WERE NOT the flesh sons of Seth.

Yes, the "sons of God" WERE ANGELS THAT TOOK WIVES OF FLESH WOMAN, and their offspring was a hybrid race of GIANTS.

Yes, NOAH was PERFECT IN HIS GENERATIONS, meaning Noah had NOT mixed with any of that seed of Nephilim, for the same Hebrew word for an unblemished sacrificial animal required per God's old covenant is used for the KJV word "perfect" about Noah's geneaology! THAT means THE SUBJECT OF GENESIS 6 IS ESPECIALLY ABOUT BLOODLINE PURITY!
_______________________________________________________

Testimony by Buffalo Bill in his Autobiography, The Life of Honorable William F. Cody (1879).

"While we were in the sand hills, scouting the Niobrara country, the Pawnee Indians brought into camp some very large bones, one of which the surgeon of the expedition pronounced to be the thigh-bone of a human being. The Indians claimed that the bones they had found were those of a person belonging to a race of people who a long time ago lived in this country; that there was once a race of men on the earth whose size was about three times that of an ordinary man, and they were so swift and powerful that they could run along-side of a buffalo, and taking the animal in one arm could tear off a leg and eat the meat as they walked."

_________________________________________________________


BEWARE BRETHREN IN CHRIST:

There are some that come to Christian Forums determined to push man's theories of evolution instead of the Revelations actually written in God's Word. God's written Word contains many Truths which are hard for many to understand, something which even Apostle Peter in 2 Peter 3 pointed out in Paul's Epistles regarding the topic of world earth ages.

God's Word actually teaches about THREE WORLD EARTH AGES, not just the flood of Noah's time, and then this present world we are in now. There was a previous world to Adam and Eve, and it was when God said that Satan was "perfect in his ways", a time when Satan actually served GOD and had not rebelled yet. See my thread The World Before (The World Before, Truly).

Did you notice that you didn’t quote even one biblical verse but just yours and other peoples views? Then you say I’m not sticking to Gods truth!

The biblical verses below prove that the sons of God were not angels

1 Corinthians 15:39-40
39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.
 
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Randy Kluth

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To get to the answer of this question we need to go to the only true source the bible and see when and why did God judge the world before. The only time this happened was back in Genesis chapters 4, 5 and 6. There is much to learn about the end times in these three chapters more than most people think. The main part of the text is found in Genesis chapter 6:1-8...

...The faithful are once again slowly conforming to the ways of the world and I believe when the church stops growing we hold back the advancement of Holy Spirit and we release satan to influence ours and others lives. When this happens we the church, the camp of God’s people, the city God loves find ourselves out numbered and surrounded by the autonomous people of the world and then God will act.

I can't agree enough with your view here!! Many years ago, I felt a great desire to please the Lord, and began to read in Deuteronomy God's warning to avoid mixing with the world, if we wish to continue on the right path, and survive. The biggest danger to our success in enduring to the end is this "mixing with the world," with "autonomous people," as you describe it.

The whole difference between God's People and the world's people is this matter of living in union with God, deferring to Him our every decision. We do have autonomy, but it is never without submission to the Lord as our ultimate authority.

On the other hand, the world lives with no acknowledgement of divine authority over their decision-making. Everything they do is out of their own mind and will.

So I could not have said it better. This is the key to what God considers to be a successful life, one that "endures to the end." Living in union with the Lord constantly, deferring to His authority, and yet able to make decisions is key.

Living in the Spirit is really what this is all about, knowing what God's goodness means so that we can make independent decisions that are still in union with Him and still pleasing to Him. If we as Christians mix with the world, we find ourselves not living in the Spirit, and we lose our ability to make godly decisions.

Safety is remaining in close contact to Him! It is not letting the world get its independent spirit inside our heads, and embitter our hearts.
 

Truman

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From what I understand, the Lord will return and rule from Jerusalem for 1,000 years. Then Satan will be released for a short time. Then the judgement will come and Satan and all his flunkies and all whose names are not in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire. Then the Lord will destroy creation and make a new heavens and earth.
Not that I think about it much.
 
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Randy Kluth

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From what I understand, the Lord will return and rule from Jerusalem for 1,000 years. Then Satan will be released for a short time. Then the judgement will come and Satan and all his flunkies and all whose names are not in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire. Then the Lord will destroy creation and make a new heavens and earth.
Not that I think about it much.

On the matter of the Lord "destroying" and "re-creating" a new universe, I suggest that you re-consider, as I also did. I read in several places in the Bible where God said His creation of the present universe is eternal. So when the Scriptures say that one universe passes away, and another takes its place, I think it's a way of saying that the form of the same universe is going to change--the present universe is not going to be completely extinguished. It is one way of saying one era will pass into another with wholesale changes.

We can only guess what changes this "re-creation" will look like. We know that the ungodly will be extinguished, as by fire--not annihilated, but removed from the plane of the earth. Sin and its effects will be removed and fixed. But the actual changes, or form of those changes, go beyond my present ability to appreciate, since the world we presently experience is sinful, and we ourselves are contaminated by the Sin Nature.

Psalm 78.69 He built his sanctuary like the heights, like the earth that he established forever.
Eccl 1.4 Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever.
 

Truman

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On the matter of the Lord "destroying" and "re-creating" a new universe, I suggest that you re-consider, as I also did. I read in several places in the Bible where God said His creation of the present universe is eternal. So when the Scriptures say that one universe passes away, and another takes its place, I think it's a way of saying that the form of the same universe is going to change--the present universe is not going to be completely extinguished. It is one way of saying one era will pass into another with wholesale changes.

We can only guess what changes this "re-creation" will look like. We know that the ungodly will be extinguished, as by fire--not annihilated, but removed from the plane of the earth. Sin and its effects will be removed and fixed. But the actual changes, or form of those changes, go beyond my present ability to appreciate, since the world we presently experience is sinful, and we ourselves are contaminated by the Sin Nature.

Psalm 78.69 He built his sanctuary like the heights, like the earth that he established forever.
Eccl 1.4 Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever.
I believe what I believe due to decades of study, including into etymology and word origins. I have no plans on changing things.
If you do a study into the origin of the word forever, you will find that at least in some instances, it doesn't have the same meaning as eternity. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. It really doesn't make a difference what I think about such matters. I've done my due diligence.
I believe in the punishment of eternal fire, not the eternal punishment of fire. I arrived at this conclusion after careful study and, I believe, the leading of the Holy Spirit.
I think...you think...the Lord knows. Shalom.
 

Truth7t7

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Did you notice that you didn’t quote even one biblical verse but just yours and other peoples views?

The biblical verses below prove that the sons of God were not angels

1 Corinthians 15:39-40
39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.
I fully agree with you on this one, the Sons Of God were human men, that married human women

The false teaching of the Nephilim was a now deceased "Chuck Missler" brain child, he was a way out in left field Calvary Chapel prophecy Guru
 
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Marty fox

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I can't agree enough with your view here!! Many years ago, I felt a great desire to please the Lord, and began to read in Deuteronomy God's warning to avoid mixing with the world, if we wish to continue on the right path, and survive. The biggest danger to our success in enduring to the end is this "mixing with the world," with "autonomous people," as you describe it.

The whole difference between God's People and the world's people is this matter of living in union with God, deferring to Him our every decision. We do have autonomy, but it is never without submission to the Lord as our ultimate authority.

On the other hand, the world lives with no acknowledgement of divine authority over their decision-making. Everything they do is out of their own mind and will.

So I could not have said it better. This is the key to what God considers to be a successful life, one that "endures to the end." Living in union with the Lord constantly, deferring to His authority, and yet able to make decisions is key.

Living in the Spirit is really what this is all about, knowing what God's goodness means so that we can make independent decisions that are still in union with Him and still pleasing to Him. If we as Christians mix with the world, we find ourselves not living in the Spirit, and we lose our ability to make godly decisions.

Safety is remaining in close contact to Him! It is not letting the world get its independent spirit inside our heads, and embitter our hearts.

Thanks Randy very true words
 

Truth7t7

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On the matter of the Lord "destroying" and "re-creating" a new universe, I suggest that you re-consider, as I also did. I read in several places in the Bible where God said His creation of the present universe is eternal. So when the Scriptures say that one universe passes away, and another takes its place, I think it's a way of saying that the form of the same universe is going to change--the present universe is not going to be completely extinguished. It is one way of saying one era will pass into another with wholesale changes.

We can only guess what changes this "re-creation" will look like. We know that the ungodly will be extinguished, as by fire--not annihilated, but removed from the plane of the earth. Sin and its effects will be removed and fixed. But the actual changes, or form of those changes, go beyond my present ability to appreciate, since the world we presently experience is sinful, and we ourselves are contaminated by the Sin Nature.

Psalm 78.69 He built his sanctuary like the heights, like the earth that he established forever.
Eccl 1.4 Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever.
Scripture Cleary teaches it will be a completely "New Creation"!

This earth will be dissolved by fire as seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13, and a new creation will take place

"Behold, I Make All Things New"

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
 
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Randy Kluth

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I believe what I believe due to decades of study, including into etymology and word origins. I have no plans on changing things.
If you do a study into the origin of the word forever, you will find that at least in some instances, it doesn't have the same meaning as eternity. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. It really doesn't make a difference what I think about such matters. I've done my due diligence.
I believe in the punishment of eternal fire, not the eternal punishment of fire. I arrived at this conclusion after careful study and, I believe, the leading of the Holy Spirit.
I think...you think...the Lord knows. Shalom.

Sounds a bit defensive. I wasn't insulting your intelligence nor inferring you lacked study. I'm just sharing my own particular experience, that for many years I believed that the planet will completely end, and then be re-created. Then suddenly, when it was pointed out that the earth is "forever," I had to re-consider, which is why I suggested that for you.

I'm good if you like where you're at. It doesn't really matter much, does it? I liked the idea that God finished His work of creating the earth after 6 days, and doesn't now have to re-create it all over again--just re-form it, so to speak. But I could be wrong. I'm just using the words as I see them written.

Yes, "forever" doesn't always mean "forever," as silly as that may sound. Sounds like you have had some study in words, and you'd be right. I've run into these kinds of things too, which is the whole reason I brought this up. Thanks.

As to your distinction regarding "fire punishment," I'm not seeing your distinction between views very well. I do have a unique view of this, with respect to the popular position that the Lost are burned alive hour by hour for all eternity. Only a monster-God would do that, in my opinion.

So what does a "fire punishment" really mean to me? It means that the eternal punishment is not the fire, but rather, the means of eternal banishment into Outer Darkness. The Fire is an eternal sentence not into the fire itself, but only into Outer Darkness, separated from and apart from God's People on earth.

So it can be said that people are sent into the fire as an eternal punishment. But the punishment itself is the separation from God, and not the burning fire itself.
 

Randy Kluth

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Scripture Cleary teaches it will be a completely "New Creation"!

This earth will be dissolved by fire as seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13, and a new creation will take place

"Behold, I Make All Things New"

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

To make all things new sounds like a "renewal," which is not necessarily a complete re-creation. It can refer to a complete renovation, or a complete remodel, rather than a complete dissolution of every atom of the universe to begin again. Either God "finished" with creation in 6 days, or He has to do another 6 days, starting anew?

Anyway, I understand where you're coming from because that's what I believed for most of my life. I just don't see it that way anymore--sorry! The Scriptures clearly say that the "earth is forever." What completely passes away is the identity of the earth as a polluted, sinful place.

So yes, the old earth completely passes away. But in taking on a new identity, it is a completely new earth, even if the foundation of this new earth is the old earth in its original, pristine form.
 

Truth7t7

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To make all things new sounds like a "renewal," which is not necessarily a complete re-creation. It can refer to a complete renovation, or a complete remodel, rather than a complete dissolution of every atom of the universe to begin again. Either God "finished" with creation in 6 days, or He has to do another 6 days, starting anew?

Anyway, I understand where you're coming from because that's what I believed for most of my life. I just don't see it that way anymore--sorry! The Scriptures clearly say that the "earth is forever." What completely passes away is the identity of the earth as a polluted, sinful place.

So yes, the old earth completely passes away. But in taking on a new identity, it is a completely new earth, even if the foundation of this new earth is the old earth in its original, pristine form.
Randy scripture clearly teaches this earth will be "Dissolved" by fire down to its very "Elements", you deny this basic scriptural "Fact"

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
 

Davy

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Did you notice that you didn’t quote even one biblical verse but just yours and other peoples views? Then you say I’m not sticking to Gods truth!

The biblical verses below prove that the sons of God were not angels

1 Corinthians 15:39-40
39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.

I didn't have to quote from Genesis 6, SINCE I QUOTED THE GENESIS 6 CHAPTER!

When are you folks going to wake up and quit playing dollies?
 

Truman

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To make all things new sounds like a "renewal," which is not necessarily a complete re-creation. It can refer to a complete renovation, or a complete remodel, rather than a complete dissolution of every atom of the universe to begin again. Either God "finished" with creation in 6 days, or He has to do another 6 days, starting anew?

Anyway, I understand where you're coming from because that's what I believed for most of my life. I just don't see it that way anymore--sorry! The Scriptures clearly say that the "earth is forever." What completely passes away is the identity of the earth as a polluted, sinful place.

So yes, the old earth completely passes away. But in taking on a new identity, it is a completely new earth, even if the foundation of this new earth is the old earth in its original, pristine form.
Hi. When it comes down to it, it's all really not that important to me. I'm more concerned about the prevalent lunacy that wants to go to war with Russia. Now that's something worth thinking about! (And even then, how long can a nuclear death last?)
 

Randy Kluth

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Randy scripture clearly teaches this earth will be "Dissolved" by fire down to its very "Elements", you deny this basic scriptural "Fact"

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

No, I don't deny that at all. You're absolutely right. My position cannot stand if the way you're interpreting that stands. But I do have a way around that. If you see the dissolution of the elements as a complete destruction of all that is alien to God's Kingdom, then once again, we have the old earth remodeled, or restored, to its original pristine condition, absent any Fall or Sin.

In the OT, God rained down judgments upon nations and armies, and destroyed them by fire, as well, which in effect reduced them, as well, to their core elements. That is what fire does, destroying the product, reducing it to carbon, or gas. In dissolving an army or a nation in this way, the entire planet was never dissolved as well--only the impurities, including the works of sinful men.

So it's really in how you read it. You would also have to explain, from your pov, how the Scriptures claim the "earth is forever?"

In case you didn't know, the Scriptures treat the "earth" not as a planet so much as a region of land. To speak of "all the earth" is the equivalent of the entire planet. But quite often, "all the earth," in context, refers to the entirety of a region.

When destruction, therefore, rained down upon the earth, it rained down upon an entire region, destroying an enemy or a nation. It did not speak of the entire planet.
 

Randy Kluth

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Hi. When it comes down to it, it's all really not that important to me. I'm more concerned about the prevalent lunacy that wants to go to war with Russia. Now that's something worth thinking about! (And even then, how long can a nuclear death last?)

Yes, that's much more interesting to me, as well. What's your position on that? I have Ukrainian blood in me--Germans from Ukraine. So I have a natural bent towards wanting to protect Ukraine from the big bully, Russia. Both of my grandparents, German and Finn, held contempt for the Russian people, right or wrong. Both may have left to escape being forcibly drafted by the Russian military--not sure.

I also am inclined not towards isolationism, but towards seeing the big picture. If we pull a Chamberlain type of tactic, we will lose the war. If Russia is not kept restrained in one part of Europe, Russia will continue to build its empire again. And that will not be good for the world.

But I do appreciate the hesitancy to want to nation-build. I don't like getting involved in other countries and their business. Their religion and political philosophy is their concern--not mine. We shouldn't be fighting adventuristic wars. What do you think?
 

Davy

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Hi. When it comes down to it, it's all really not that important to me. I'm more concerned about the prevalent lunacy that wants to go to war with Russia. Now that's something worth thinking about! (And even then, how long can a nuclear death last?)

Hm.... your concerned about those who want to go to war with Russia??

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't RUSSIA invade Ukraine recently??

You know, there's still some good Christian people in Russia today, they're not all Communists. But the government system there is still... Communism. And that means that leadership still follows Communist policy, which the worst policy is that 'the end justifies the means', in other words, it doesn't matter what we do, as long as it brings about our end goal.

That means they think it's OK to murder, starve, lie, cheat, steal, destroy, anything... that accomplishes their goal. Communism is the devil's work, because that is who it follows.
 

Truman

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Yes, that's much more interesting to me, as well. What's your position on that? I have Ukrainian blood in me--Germans from Ukraine. So I have a natural bent towards wanting to protect Ukraine from the big bully, Russia. Both of my grandparents, German and Finn, held contempt for the Russian people, right or wrong. Both may have left to escape being forcibly drafted by the Russian military--not sure.

I also am inclined not towards isolationism, but towards seeing the big picture. If we pull a Chamberlain type of tactic, we will lose the war. If Russia is not kept restrained in one part of Europe, Russia will continue to build its empire again. And that will not be good for the world.

But I do appreciate the hesitancy to want to nation-build. I don't like getting involved in other countries and their business. Their religion and political philosophy is their concern--not mine. We shouldn't be fighting adventuristic wars. What do you think?
I think that the time to do what is best for Ukraine has passed. I no longer view the world like I used to. I've backed up far enough from the trees to see that we are in the midst of a fascist globalist takeover with the goal of a one-world government. Which will include the mark of the beast.
Hm.... your concerned about those who want to go to war with Russia??

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't RUSSIA invade Ukraine recently??

You know, there's still some good Christian people in Russia today, they're not all Communists. But the government system there is still... Communism. And that means that leadership still follows Communist policy, which the worst policy is that 'the end justifies the means', in other words, it doesn't matter what we do, as long as it brings about our end goal.

That means they think it's OK to murder, starve, lie, cheat, steal, destroy, anything... that accomplishes their goal. Communism is the devil's work, because that is who it follows.
Nuclear war is my concern. Hydrogen bombs know no wrongs.