When did Daniel 7:13-14 happen?

[Ronald Nolette]

Look at verse 9 and the words "hast redeemed". And also verse see 10: "hast made". It's all in the past tense, as being the Day OF OUR redemption, as in ALL have been kings and priests unto God on earth, and are seen as already having been redeemed in that vision.
Eph. 4[30] And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

No one ("24 rulers" included) has seen, or has yet been a participant in the Day of redemption!
Christ has not yet physically and Gloriously appeared from Heaven, in flaming fire!

Well DUH! Of course not this is a prophecy and it has not happened yet! Though we cannot be exact, Most literalist scholars agree that teh 24 elders are the original 12 sons of Israel and the 12 apostles. when the scene in heaven is set so it can take place- no one knows!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Sorry, none of your responses are making any sense, to that which I provided scripture for. Could you please reply back with more detail?
Thanks!

What tell you that gods Word means what it says and it doesn't need you or any other allegorizer to reinterpret it for us? Which passage that you have reinterpreted do you wish me to post? All yo have to do is go back and look at your "explanations" and you will see your allegorization you have done.

 

[Earburner]

Well there is your wrong! problem right there you deny SCripture.

Btw, how convenient of you to not copy and post my reference of verse 10 of 2 Thessalonians 1.
It is the key to providing the answer that ALL NEED to hear.
I have shown it, and then YOU denied it, attempting to support the "religious persuasion" of a 1000 year reign of Christ on earth, AFTER He returns in all His immortal Glory.

 

[Earburner]

What tell you that gods Word means what it says and it doesn't need you or any other allegorizer to reinterpret it for us? Which passage that you have reinterpreted do you wish me to post? All yo have to do is go back and look at your "explanations" and you will see your allegorization you have done.

My answer is simple, and will be the same for you, when you realize who it is that should be your guide, but has been replaced by the garbage of "church-ianity".
John 16[13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into ALL truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Can you go it alone with only the KJV and the Holy Spirit of God, and NOT read any more authored books, other bible versions, or religious commentaries?
Surely you do trust IN the Lord, and not the religious doctrines of men.

That's another challenge to you, and all.
See Proverbs 3:5 again.

 

[Earburner]

1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

what did I win!

If you were looking for "The Antichrist", you didn't and won't be winning anything!
But, in a few more minutes, you are going to be shown an "eye opener". So, please do find a chair, so that you don't fall down!

 

[Earburner]

I challenge everyone to show me in the KJV Bible, where it is written the words:
"The antichrist".
You all have 24 hours to come up with the scripture verse and it's location, in the KJV Bible.
If not, I will provide the answer.
Earburner

OK, the 24 hours are up.
I am assuming that no one could find anything scripturally sound to meet by challenge. Well, grab a chair so that you don't fall down, because what I am going to share is factual, and anyone can do the same research that I did.
So here it is:

"That Wicked" has problems"- Earburner

I have seriously studied on four words in 2 Thes. 2:8-9, using both the KJV/Strong's and the Young's concordance: specifically the words "that Wicked", and "even him"
.
I am not looking at any other bible versions, because they are translated from the Wescott & Hort Greek text- 1881. All of such translations purposely and specifically cause the reader to falsely learn that 2 Thes. 2:8 is in the singular, as being one man.
.
In the 1611 KJV, it is very possible that a wrong word was used, being the word "that". I f so, then in 1611, it could have been done so, in order to give support to a popular false belief at that time, of the Pope being antichrist.
.
In the Textus Receptus Greek- 1512,
["the" wicked] is used and not the words
["that" Wicked].
However, in the KJV of today's printing, the opposite is expressed, being ["that" Wicked].
.
Secondly, now that we may have a wrong word insertion of the word "that" being used, I can understand why the word "wicked" is written with a capital "W". It's done so as to force the reader to see and understand the words in the singular.
.
At that time, during the Protestant Reformation period, it was commonly held by most Protestant churches, that the Pope was "of that spirit of antichrist."
From that verse, it's an easy assumption to make, by transposing and inserting the word "that" in the KJV, for the correct word "the" in the Textus Receptus Greek.
.
However, if the word "the" was used, and the word "wicked" was set in the lower case "w", then the entire context of 2 Thessalonians 2 would be interpreted in perfect harmony, and in the plural.
.
The word "Wicked" is found in the Strong's
but NOT found in the Young's
concordance.
I have found that when the Young's
Concordance ommits a word, it's because
the word was purposely inserted by the
translators of The KJV Bible.

Conclusion:
The correct word to be used in 2 thes. 2:8
is "the" and not "that", and
therefore a capital "W" for
"wicked" would not have been used as
being necessary.
When the capital is used, it denotes the
singular. When it's not, the plural is
relevant to the verse and the context.
.
So now, having said that, let's read
2 Thes. 2:8 in a portion of the context,
with the acceptable changes:

[ 7 ] For the mystery of iniquity doth
already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
[ 8 ] And then shall [the wicked] be
revealed, whom the Lord shall
consume with the spirit of his mouth,
and shall destroy with the brightness
of his coming:
[ 9 ] Even him [including those],
whose coming is after
the working of Satan with all power
and signs and lying wonders,
[ 10 ] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
because they received not the love of
the truth, that they might be saved.
[ 11 ] And for this cause God shall send
them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
[ 12 ] That they all might be damned
who believed not the truth, but had
pleasure in unrighteousness.
.
OK, we are not done yet. I have
Dicovered that the words "Even him" ,
are also suspect of being an insertion
by the translators. Those words
("even him") are not found in the
Textus Receptus Greek text also.
Nor are they found in Young's
concordance or the Strong's.

Those words are also an insertion by
the KJV translators, being evident
to give support to the erroneous words
of" that Wicked".

So, are we looking at a fabrication, or an
oversight in translation?
Given the fact that the "protestant
reformation" was in full swing, through
Martin Luther, I can see
how the translators might give support to
such a "just cause". Departing from the
RCC was no small matter.

Since it is "open season" for insertions,
then let it be accepted as this: "Even them".
At least, it will blend with the plural nature
of the context, as well as the context of
the KJV New Testament scriptures,
specifically the book of 1 John 4.

So now, let's read it all, with all the
acceptable proposed [corrections]:
2 Thessalonians 2
[ 7 ] For the mystery of iniquity doth
already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
[ 8 ] And then shall [the wicked] be
revealed, whom the Lord shall
consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his
coming: [ 9 ] [Even them], whose
coming is after the working of Satan
with all power and signs and lying
wonders,
[ 10 ] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
because they received not the love of
the truth, that they might be saved.

Question:
Are the words: "that spirit of
antichrist", of 1 John 4:3, in the
singular or the or or in the plural?
Answer:
It's in the PLURAL!

 

[Oseas]

OK, the 24 hours are up.
I am assuming that no one could find anything scripturally sound to meet by challenge. Well, grab a chair so that you don't fall down, because what I am going to share is factual, and anyone can do the same research that I did.
So here it is:

"That Wicked" has problems"- Earburner

I have seriously studied on four words in 2 Thes. 2:8-9, using both the KJV/Strong's and the Young's concordance: specifically the words "that Wicked", and "even him"
.
I am not looking at any other bible versions, because they are translated from the Wescott & Hort Greek text- 1881. All of such translations purposely and specifically cause the reader to falsely learn that 2 Thes. 2:8 is in the singular, as being one man.
.
In the 1611 KJV, it is very possible that a wrong word was used, being the word "that". I f so, then in 1611, it could have been done so, in order to give support to a popular false belief at that time, of the Pope being antichrist.
.
In the Textus Receptus Greek- 1512,
["the" wicked] is used and not the words
["that" Wicked].
However, in the KJV of today's printing, the opposite is expressed, being ["that" Wicked].
.
Secondly, now that we may have a wrong word insertion of the word "that" being used, I can understand why the word "wicked" is written with a capital "W". It's done so as to force the reader to see and understand the words in the singular.
.
At that time, during the Protestant Reformation period, it was commonly held by most Protestant churches, that the Pope was "of that spirit of antichrist."
From that verse, it's an easy assumption to make, by transposing and inserting the word "that" in the KJV, for the correct word "the" in the Textus Receptus Greek.
.
However, if the word "the" was used, and the word "wicked" was set in the lower case "w", then the entire context of 2 Thessalonians 2 would be interpreted in perfect harmony, and in the plural.
.
The word "Wicked" is found in the Strong's
but NOT found in the Young's
concordance.
I have found that when the Young's
Concordance ommits a word, it's because
the word was purposely inserted by the
translators of The KJV Bible.

Conclusion:
The correct word to be used in 2 thes. 2:8
is "the" and not "that", and
therefore a capital "W" for
"wicked" would not have been used as
being necessary.
When the capital is used, it denotes the
singular. When it's not, the plural is
relevant to the verse and the context.
.
So now, having said that, let's read
2 Thes. 2:8 in a portion of the context,
with the acceptable changes:

[ 7 ] For the mystery of iniquity doth
already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
[ 8 ] And then shall [the wicked] be
revealed, whom the Lord shall
consume with the spirit of his mouth,
and shall destroy with the brightness
of his coming:
[ 9 ] Even him [including those],
whose coming is after
the working of Satan with all power
and signs and lying wonders,
[ 10 ] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
because they received not the love of
the truth, that they might be saved.
[ 11 ] And for this cause God shall send
them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
[ 12 ] That they all might be damned
who believed not the truth, but had
pleasure in unrighteousness.
.
OK, we are not done yet. I have
Dicovered that the words "Even him" ,
are also suspect of being an insertion
by the translators. Those words
("even him") are not found in the
Textus Receptus Greek text also.
Nor are they found in Young's
concordance or the Strong's.

Those words are also an insertion by
the KJV translators, being evident
to give support to the erroneous words
of" that Wicked".

So, are we looking at a fabrication, or an
oversight in translation?
Given the fact that the "protestant
reformation" was in full swing, through
Martin Luther, I can see
how the translators might give support to
such a "just cause". Departing from the
RCC was no small matter.

Since it is "open season" for insertions,
then let it be accepted as this: "Even them".
At least, it will blend with the plural nature
of the context, as well as the context of
the KJV New Testament scriptures,
specifically the book of 1 John 4.

So now, let's read it all, with all the
acceptable proposed [corrections]:
2 Thessalonians 2
[ 7 ] For the mystery of iniquity doth
already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
[ 8 ] And then shall [the wicked] be
revealed, whom the Lord shall
consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his
coming: [ 9 ] [Even them], whose
coming is after the working of Satan
with all power and signs and lying
wonders,
[ 10 ] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
because they received not the love of
the truth, that they might be saved.

Question:
Are the words: "that spirit of
antichrist", of 1 John 4:3, in the
singular or the or or in the plural?
Answer:
It's in the PLURAL!

Allow me to put more ingredients to the content of your post on the manifestation of the Wicked Man.

The apostate Christian environment is in literal fulfillment in this current time. But Wicked Man has not yet manifested, but he is about to manifest, so there will be, and we will see, two satanic Man Beasts reigning on Earth. One in Rome and the other in the idolater Jerusalem, the two most religious and satanic cities in the world.

One of these two satanic Beasts is a religious MONSTER with 7 heads and 10 horns and upon the 7 heads a NAME of blasphemy, and now, in this beginning of the seventh and last millennium, one of his 7 heads will be mortally wounded. Then the other Beast, yet to manifest soon, enthroned in Jerusalem, spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, will heal the deadly wound of the first Beast that has existed for millennia, whose roots can be identified like unto a leopard, and his feet as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion-Revelation 13:v.2-: and the Dragon gives (will give) him his Power, and his Seat in Jerusalem, and great Authority, then the deadly wound on the Beast from the sea will be healed. Sea means peoples, and nations, multitudes and tongues (all tongues).

Catholicism and Judaism(iron and clay) together will make a 7-year-long treaty to build a satanic universal religious kingdom.

Then there will be two mighty religious Beasts on Earth, and by mutual agreement the Beast of the Sea, which already has a monstrous religious structure in the 7 regions of the Planet Earth, will reign first for 42 months-Revelation 13:v.5 and Revelation 11:v.2. Then the Beast Man of the Sea will begin to execute his devilish plans of Universal religious domination of half week of years together/supported with Beast Man of Earth-Revelation 13:v.11 to 18, who will take over the second half of week of years, and will establish the Abomination of Desolation. It is along these demonic paths, even in this direction, that events will take place.

Be careful and get ready, the days are and will be exceedingly evil.

 

[Earburner]

Allow me to put more ingredients to the content of your post on the manifestation of the Wicked Man.

The apostate Christian environment is in literal fulfillment in this current time. But Wicked Man has not yet manifested, but he is about to manifest, so there will be, and we will see, two satanic Man Beasts reigning on Earth. One in Rome and the other in the idolater Jerusalem, the two most religious and satanic cities in the world.

One of these two satanic Beasts is a religious MONSTER with 7 heads and 10 horns and upon the 7 heads a NAME of blasphemy, and now, in this beginning of the seventh and last millennium, one of his 7 heads will be mortally wounded. Then the other Beast, yet to manifest soon, enthroned in Jerusalem, spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, will heal the deadly wound of the first Beast that has existed for millennia, whose roots can be identified like unto a leopard, and his feet as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion-Revelation 13:v.2-: and the Dragon gives (will give) him his Power, and his Seat in Jerusalem, and great Authority, then the deadly wound on the Beast from the sea will be healed. Sea means peoples, and nations, multitudes and tongues (all tongues).

Catholicism and Judaism(iron and clay) together will make a 7-year-long treaty to build a satanic universal religious kingdom.

Then there will be two mighty religious Beasts on Earth, and by mutual agreement the Beast of the Sea, which already has a monstrous religious structure in the 7 regions of the Planet Earth, will reign first for 42 months-Revelation 13:v.5 and Revelation 11:v.2. Then the Beast Man of the Sea will begin to execute his devilish plans of Universal religious domination of half week of years together/supported with Beast Man of Earth-Revelation 13:v.11 to 18, who will take over the second half of week of years, and will establish the Abomination of Desolation. It is along these demonic paths, even in this direction, that events will take place.

Be careful and get ready, the days are and will be exceedingly evil.

Osea, I was trying to stay focussed on the simple fact, according to the KJV and the Textus Receptus Greek (TRG), of which the KJV is translated from, that there is no such thing as a singular man, that "church-ianity" loves to call "THE Anti Christ".

Therefore, the words that were purposely inserted by the translators of the KJV, corrupted the plural meaning of the word: "the wicked", which can be many "wicked" persons, and then changed it to be only just one "Wicked person".

Plain and simple, there is NO singular, one man band man to come, that shall be, or is called "THE Anti-Christ".

 

[Earburner]

Allow me to put more ingredients to the content of your post on the manifestation of the Wicked Man.

The apostate Christian environment is in literal fulfillment in this current time. But Wicked Man has not yet manifested, but he is about to manifest, so there will be, and we will see, two satanic Man Beasts reigning on Earth. One in Rome and the other in the idolater Jerusalem, the two most religious and satanic cities in the world.

One of these two satanic Beasts is a religious MONSTER with 7 heads and 10 horns and upon the 7 heads a NAME of blasphemy, and now, in this beginning of the seventh and last millennium, one of his 7 heads will be mortally wounded. Then the other Beast, yet to manifest soon, enthroned in Jerusalem, spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, will heal the deadly wound of the first Beast that has existed for millennia, whose roots can be identified like unto a leopard, and his feet as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion-Revelation 13:v.2-: and the Dragon gives (will give) him his Power, and his Seat in Jerusalem, and great Authority, then the deadly wound on the Beast from the sea will be healed. Sea means peoples, and nations, multitudes and tongues (all tongues).

Catholicism and Judaism(iron and clay) together will make a 7-year-long treaty to build a satanic universal religious kingdom.

Then there will be two mighty religious Beasts on Earth, and by mutual agreement the Beast of the Sea, which already has a monstrous religious structure in the 7 regions of the Planet Earth, will reign first for 42 months-Revelation 13:v.5 and Revelation 11:v.2. Then the Beast Man of the Sea will begin to execute his devilish plans of Universal religious domination of half week of years together/supported with Beast Man of Earth-Revelation 13:v.11 to 18, who will take over the second half of week of years, and will establish the Abomination of Desolation. It is along these demonic paths, even in this direction, that events will take place.

Be careful and get ready, the days are and will be exceedingly evil.

As for your adding "more ingredients" to my study about the religious narrative, concerning the falsehood of a singular man to come, that they call "THE Antichrist", there are many biblical symbols of your coloring that I and many here don't agree with.

In Daniel and Revelation, Beasts are Gentile Empires of world domination, and are always shown to be of military might, In their manifestation, they are evolving at different rates, where some are a "flash in the pan" (Alex the Great), and others can be of long duration, such as the 10 horn Beast out of the sea, of which is the evolved state of the 4th Beast in Daniel.
For example:
Though the 10 horns are shown in Daniel's prophecy in the 4th Beast, they are NOT manifested/revealed of WHO they are until just before Jesus' sudden return from Heaven, in Glory and in flaming fire. But having said that, we all know that the 4th Beast began as the Roman Empire.

So now, the question is, how has it been evolving in these past 2000+ years? In my estimation, it was a
Military power, then a
Religious power, but now its an
Economic global power.

Rule #1- Beasts are never a man, nor can a man ever become a Beast.
However, "horns" and "heads" are typically symbolized as being "kings" (presidents, premiers), and/or "kingdoms" (goverments) within a Beast.

In the attempt to understand Revelation, the "religious church" (church-ianity) have unleashed many faslehoods and fabrications of Daniel, and have done much damage in discernment to the understanding of God's truth.

Daniel was a prophet for "thy (his) people", upto the first appearance of Jesus.
Iows, the book of Daniel was for the nation of Israel and the first appeatance of Jesus in the flesh, as the book of Revelation is for the church of Christ's "born again" Saints, and the Final appearance of Jesus in all His Glory.

What human willed scholarly Theologians etc. Have fabricated, about the prophecies in Daniel, is very much "far out in left field" as FANTASY.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Btw, how convenient of you to not copy and post my reference of verse 10 of 2 Thessalonians 1.
It is the key to providing the answer that ALL NEED to hear.
I have shown it, and then YOU denied it, attempting to support the "religious persuasion" of a 1000 year reign of Christ on earth, AFTER He returns in all His immortal Glory.

Well here is the verse:

2 Thessalonians 1:10
King James Version

10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

As it has nothing to do with where Jesus reigns it is an irrelevant verse to the discussion.

So Jesus returns to the earth, judges the nations, judges individuals and then you have Him go back up to heaven for the 1,000 years of REv. 20? Proof of that?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

My answer is simple, and will be the same for you, when you realize who it is that should be your guide, but has been replaced by the garbage of "church-ianity".
John 16[13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into ALL truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Can you go it alone with only the KJV and the Holy Spirit of God, and NOT read any more authored books, other bible versions, or religious commentaries?
Surely you do trust IN the Lord, and not the religious doctrines of men.

That's another challenge to you, and all.
See Proverbs 3:5 again.

Well I also recognize that God did this for believers:

Ephesians 4:10-13
King James Version

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:


It seems you call tehat "Churchianity so I guess you will remain immature.

Then there is this:

Hebrews 10:24-26
King James Version

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

It does seem you forsake the assembling of your self together.

then there is this:

1 Corinthians 12:12-31
King James Version

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

14 For the body is not one member, but many.

15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?

20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.

21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.

25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.


You are part of the body of christ and are supposed to be ministering and mionistered to in a local assembly.

But when god has ground you to powder when you fall from your spirital pride, then you can be used for mighty and noble things. Personally, with your spiritual attitude, I am glad you have decided to semi or totally isolate yourself. You will do less harm to the body of Christ that way.

 

[Oseas]

Therefore, the words that were purposely inserted by the translators of the KJV, corrupted the plural meaning of the word: "the wicked", which can be many "wicked" persons, and then changed it to be only just one "Wicked person".

Earburner, let us see what the Word of GOD says. The Word is GOD, invisible GOD. There are three that bear record in heaven(heaven has nothing to do with sky), the Father-GOD the Father- , the Word - the Word made flesh-JESUS- , and the Holy Spirit (he is not a "ghost" as is written in English language, but an unknown Person-the Paraclete, the Comfort-John 16:v.7to15): and these THREE are One.

You, and many like you, think and believe that the literal Word of GOD was corrupted by translators, this theory sounds terrible against the Word of GOD,-the Word is GOD- , so, I must say that the message Paul Apostle , and Silvanus, and Timotheus, sent unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, it was a prophetic message revealed by the Holy Spirit, dont you believe? Letter kills, said Paul by the Holy Spirit to the church of Corinthians(2Cor.3:v.6), but the Spirit gives life. See, it is IMPOSSIBLE to corrupt the Holy Spirit no matter what say the supposed corrupt letter you are preaching here. As I above said by the Word of GOD, There are three that bear record in heaven, and these THREE are One. Remember: Paul Apostle wrote to Timothy, saying: The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the Truth, and shall be turned unto fables-2Tim.4:v.3-4.

Osea, I was trying to stay focussed on the simple fact, according to the KJV and the Textus Receptus Greek (TRG), of which the KJV is translated from, that there is no such thing as a singular man, that "church-ianity" loves to call "THE Anti Christ". Plain and simple, there is NO singular, one man band man to come, that shall be, or is called "THE Anti-Christ".

As is above commented, let us remember what Ezekiel and Daniel prophesied that is linked to 2Thessalonians 2 among other Scriptures. Daniel 9:v.26-27 and Ezekiel 21:v.25:

26 ... The people of the Prince(the little horn) that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the WAR(Rev.12:v.7-12) desolations are determined.

27 And he (the Wicked Prince-Ezekiel 21:v.25-check it) shall CONFIRM the COVENANT WITH MANY-(Revelation 11:v.2-check it) for one week (of years): and in the midst of the week he (the Wicked Prince) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he(the Wicked Prince) shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Speaking about the above prophecy of Daniel , Paul Apostle of the Lord revealed to the church of Thessalonians that the Day of Christ was not at hand yet(course), first would come an extreme apostasy, and then would manifest the MAN of sin, son of perdition. Who is him? He is the Wicked-from Genesis to Revelation. Who is him? a former anointed Cherub-Ezekiel 28:v.13-15- , created by GOD as a son, later, as former son of GOD, JESUS, and Paul, both refer to him son of perdition.

Thus,

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for the Day (the Lord's Day) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that MAN of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth (will opose) and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he (the MAN of sin - the Wicked Prince) as God sitteth (will sit) in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed IN HIS TIME. (HIS TIME HAS ARRIVED. HE IS AT DOOR. GET READY)

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. (Here is a mystery: JESUS's sacrifice for salvation has endured for these last two thousand years and it is/will be finish(ed), the Dispensation of grace will end, the son of perdition, the former Cherub, the pseudo messiah of the Jews, the Beast of the earth like a lamb-Revelation 13:v.11-a false lamb- will replace the holy sacrifice of JESUS and will establish the abomination of desolation, as prophesied Daniel. The Jewish Wicked Prince-Ezekiel 21:v.25- the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist false messiah of the Jews, will destroy the sanctuary and the city. Be sure that with this SATANIC EVENT, WITH THIS DELUSION, yeah, with this satanic event that will last 1,260 days plus a gap of 30 days and another gap of 45 days, yeah, GOD will finish the Dispensation of Grace, the world of the Devil gets to END, and JESUS return here as the heir of ALL things-Hebrews 1:v.1-4 and so on . Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Amen)

8 Then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth (His powerful Word, course, Hebrews 4:v.12-13. Check it), and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:

9 Even him(son of perdition), whose coming is after the working of Satan (Satan incarnated)with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause GOD shall send them STRONG DELUSION(to the people of Israel, and to GENTILE FALSE CHRISTIANS), that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be DAMNED who believed not the Truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Revelation 20:v.1-4

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and Judgment(the Word Judges-the Word is GOD, invisible GOD) was given unto them -DANIEL 7:V.21-27: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word of God, and which had not worshipped the Beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

In Christ JESUS, KING of kings (kings made by Him) and LORD of lords

 

[nenagana]

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(Ezekiel's Prophecy of the Tribes, has Priority over Revelation and discredits Book of Revelation)
(Daniel's Prophecy of the Beasts, has Priority over Revelation and discredits the Book of Revelation)

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Daniel 7's Prophecy is for the "Son of Man + Ancient of Days (messiah jesus)"
Revelation's Prophecy is for the "Son of Man + Women/Soulmate"
(pyramid builder covenant of babel, for a soulmate, as a blessing for wrestling with god under the pretenses of the gospel's law)

(Jesus is called the Wife in the New Testament, the faithful are the husband, because we have a completed law...................) (this argument also applies to the son of man.................in disputing suicide pleasure with satan, God provides a nullified value as a blessing for the son of man, but for satan this is a snare)

(Quick Reply)
the "son of man" is born holy and dies holy, heresy is a position for satan only, and satan does either martyrdom for pleasure, or fustrates the gospel by either preventing understanding or, assigning value or removing value.

the real question for this topic should be:

When is Daniel 7:13-14 Revealed?
(Generally at or around the 40th year of life for the son of man, when the soulmate issue is more pronounced)

The Legal argument for Daniel 7:13-14 is at birth for the son of man ("the Jupiter Effect 1982")..............the technical answer is 9/11/2001 falling man moses, but there maybe more revealed in which case this answer is not finished.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

OK, the 24 hours are up.
I am assuming that no one could find anything scripturally sound to meet by challenge. Well, grab a chair so that you don't fall down, because what I am going to share is factual, and anyone can do the same research that I did.
So here it is:

"That Wicked" has problems"- Earburner

I have seriously studied on four words in 2 Thes. 2:8-9, using both the KJV/Strong's and the Young's concordance: specifically the words "that Wicked", and "even him"
.
I am not looking at any other bible versions, because they are translated from the Wescott & Hort Greek text- 1881. All of such translations purposely and specifically cause the reader to falsely learn that 2 Thes. 2:8 is in the singular, as being one man.
.
In the 1611 KJV, it is very possible that a wrong word was used, being the word "that". I f so, then in 1611, it could have been done so, in order to give support to a popular false belief at that time, of the Pope being antichrist.
.
In the Textus Receptus Greek- 1512,
["the" wicked] is used and not the words
["that" Wicked].
However, in the KJV of today's printing, the opposite is expressed, being ["that" Wicked].
.
Secondly, now that we may have a wrong word insertion of the word "that" being used, I can understand why the word "wicked" is written with a capital "W". It's done so as to force the reader to see and understand the words in the singular.
.
At that time, during the Protestant Reformation period, it was commonly held by most Protestant churches, that the Pope was "of that spirit of antichrist."
From that verse, it's an easy assumption to make, by transposing and inserting the word "that" in the KJV, for the correct word "the" in the Textus Receptus Greek.
.
However, if the word "the" was used, and the word "wicked" was set in the lower case "w", then the entire context of 2 Thessalonians 2 would be interpreted in perfect harmony, and in the plural.
.
The word "Wicked" is found in the Strong's
but NOT found in the Young's
concordance.
I have found that when the Young's
Concordance ommits a word, it's because
the word was purposely inserted by the
translators of The KJV Bible.

Conclusion:
The correct word to be used in 2 thes. 2:8
is "the" and not "that", and
therefore a capital "W" for
"wicked" would not have been used as
being necessary.
When the capital is used, it denotes the
singular. When it's not, the plural is
relevant to the verse and the context.
.
So now, having said that, let's read
2 Thes. 2:8 in a portion of the context,
with the acceptable changes:

[ 7 ] For the mystery of iniquity doth
already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
[ 8 ] And then shall [the wicked] be
revealed, whom the Lord shall
consume with the spirit of his mouth,
and shall destroy with the brightness
of his coming:
[ 9 ] Even him [including those],
whose coming is after
the working of Satan with all power
and signs and lying wonders,
[ 10 ] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
because they received not the love of
the truth, that they might be saved.
[ 11 ] And for this cause God shall send
them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
[ 12 ] That they all might be damned
who believed not the truth, but had
pleasure in unrighteousness.
.
OK, we are not done yet. I have
Dicovered that the words "Even him" ,
are also suspect of being an insertion
by the translators. Those words
("even him") are not found in the
Textus Receptus Greek text also.
Nor are they found in Young's
concordance or the Strong's.

Those words are also an insertion by
the KJV translators, being evident
to give support to the erroneous words
of" that Wicked".

So, are we looking at a fabrication, or an
oversight in translation?
Given the fact that the "protestant
reformation" was in full swing, through
Martin Luther, I can see
how the translators might give support to
such a "just cause". Departing from the
RCC was no small matter.

Since it is "open season" for insertions,
then let it be accepted as this: "Even them".
At least, it will blend with the plural nature
of the context, as well as the context of
the KJV New Testament scriptures,
specifically the book of 1 John 4.

So now, let's read it all, with all the
acceptable proposed [corrections]:
2 Thessalonians 2
[ 7 ] For the mystery of iniquity doth
already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
[ 8 ] And then shall [the wicked] be
revealed, whom the Lord shall
consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his
coming: [ 9 ] [Even them], whose
coming is after the working of Satan
with all power and signs and lying
wonders,
[ 10 ] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
because they received not the love of
the truth, that they might be saved.

Question:
Are the words: "that spirit of
antichrist", of 1 John 4:3, in the
singular or the or or in the plural?
Answer:
It's in the PLURAL!

Wow! I bet you consider yourself a greek scholar! Because you used two dictionaries. How about any lexicons, parsing guides, rules for translation from Koine Greek to English? Any of these?

1. You make proposed changes based on a dictionary.
2. If young omits- it is not a rule that teh KJV scholars intentionally added something that should not be added.
3. In teh greek word endings many many times can only be understood by adding words in English that are not specifically, but explicitly shown by the Greek.
4. did you have a textus receptus in front of you to verify this all or ar you spitballing? Could you even tell if those words were there or not?
5. You say "the wicked is not even in the textus receptus, then use it anyway in a different way.
6. the definite article "ho" is translated: ὁ ho, ho; the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom):—the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc. all depending on grammatic construct.
7. And "wicked" does appear. it is the word "anomos" more commonly translated lawless. and because it is nomainative masculine SINGULAR (not plural) they added the one to denote it being a masculine noun denoting a person!

Sorry but your scholarship doesn't hold up to the greek experts surrounding us!

 

[Earburner]

Well here is the verse:

2 Thessalonians 1:10
King James Version

10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

As it has nothing to do with where Jesus reigns it is an irrelevant verse to the discussion.

So Jesus returns to the earth, judges the nations, judges individuals and then you have Him go back up to heaven for the 1,000 years of REv. 20? Proof of that?

You have not come to the fulness of understanding of just exactly WHERE the KoG is. Here are a few scriptures to help with HIS focus of understanding (Isaiah 55:8-9):
Luke 17[20] And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
[21] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

John 14[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 14[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Jesus Himself is the truth, who while in His mortal flesh, was dwelling with the disciples.
Jesus Himself is the Gospel of God the Father, and is the KoG to all we, who are born again of His Holy Spirit of truth, and NOW is within us.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You have not come to the fulness of understanding of just exactly WHERE the KoG is. Here are a few scriptures to help with HIS focus of understanding (Isaiah 55:8-9):
Luke 17[20] And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
[21] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

John 14[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 14[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Jesus Himself is the truth, who while in His mortal flesh, was dwelling with the disciples.
Jesus Himself is the Gospel of God the Father, and is the KoG to all we, who are born again of His Holy Spirit of truth, and NOW is within us.

Well given your faux-scholarship and insistence on being a Lone Ranger Christian, I will trust th e47 years I have studied and learned and grown. Than you very much.

see if you had done some serious study you would know there are two aspects of the Kingdom Jesus spoke about.

The pohysical kingdom that God made an EVERLASTING COVENANT with Israel, and what is dubbed the mystery kingdom which is shown by the parables and that kingdom is here now within the believer. But it is not the kingdom that jesus reigns over when He returns.

You say you don't trust "church-ianity" yet you are extremely guilty of pracxticing one of "church-ianities" greatest crime- Allegorizing the Scriptures to draw a conclusion that is not written by the inspired writers. IOW you follow, "I know what the Bible says, but here is what it means"

or drawing conclusions based on using just a doctionary.

 

[Earburner]

Wow! I bet you consider yourself a greek scholar! Because you used two dictionaries. How about any lexicons, parsing guides, rules for translation from Koine Greek to English? Any of these?

1. You make proposed changes based on a dictionary.
2. If young omits- it is not a rule that teh KJV scholars intentionally added something that should not be added.
3. In teh greek word endings many many times can only be understood by adding words in English that are not specifically, but explicitly shown by the Greek.
4. did you have a textus receptus in front of you to verify this all or ar you spitballing? Could you even tell if those words were there or not?
5. You say "the wicked is not even in the textus receptus, then use it anyway in a different way.
6. the definite article "ho" is translated: ὁ ho, ho; the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom):—the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc. all depending on grammatic construct.
7. And "wicked" does appear. it is the word "anomos" more commonly translated lawless. and because it is nomainative masculine SINGULAR (not plural) they added the one to denote it being a masculine noun denoting a person!

Sorry but your scholarship doesn't hold up to the greek experts surrounding us!

A. The words "the wicked" are in the TRG, and NOT the words "that Wicked". Such a situation reveals a definite manipulation in the work of translation.
Now you know why the "W" is in the upper case form, in the KJV Bible.

B. The words "even HIM" are NOT found in the TRG at all. They are a direct insertion by the work of the translators.

Your item #5: In my study, my focus was on the words "that" and "the", in connection to the word "wicked".
" the" in the TRG, is the word used, and not "that", as was erroneously/purposely translated in the KJV

Deny it all you want and with what scholars you can find, but no one has seen, nor shall ever see a singular man, that "church-ianity" loves to call "THE" Antichrist!
But if you love fantasy, then have at it.

 

[Earburner]

Well given your faux-scholarship and insistence on being a Lone Ranger Christian, I will trust th e47 years I have studied and learned and grown. Than you very much.

see if you had done some serious study you would know there are two aspects of the Kingdom Jesus spoke about.

The pohysical kingdom that God made an EVERLASTING COVENANT with Israel, and what is dubbed the mystery kingdom which is shown by the parables and that kingdom is here now within the believer. But it is not the kingdom that jesus reigns over when He returns.

You say you don't trust "church-ianity" yet you are extremely guilty of pracxticing one of "church-ianities" greatest crime- Allegorizing the Scriptures to draw a conclusion that is not written by the inspired writers. IOW you follow, "I know what the Bible says, but here is what it means"

or drawing conclusions based on using just a doctionary.

No need to attack the messenger here.
But, since you don't allegorize, then you being a "Word Christian Literist" must have a rough time of it explaining what John 16:13 means.

 

[Earburner]

see if you had done some serious study you would know there are two aspects of the Kingdom Jesus spoke about.

The pohysical kingdom that God made an EVERLASTING COVENANT with Israel, and what is dubbed the mystery kingdom which is shown by the parables and that kingdom is here now within the believer. But it is not the kingdom that jesus reigns over when He returns.

Matthew 21[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

When Jesus told the Jews those words, to what other nation did Jesus go to, after His resurrection and ascension?

 

[Earburner]

It seems you call tehat "Churchianity so I guess you will remain immature.

Thanks!
Many love to hear about the historical Jesus, but few there be that love to hear the spiritual Jesus. John 16:13