When did Old Testament saints receive the Holy Spirit?

[6 Stories]

John 3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

John 3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

When Jesus went to Heaven !

 

[ewq1938]

John 3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

OT saints were born again. Being born again isn't a new thing.


Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?


The implication is that being born again was not a new teaching and "masters" of OT scripture should have known this already. That means being born again is found in the OT:


1Sa 10:6 And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
1Sa 10:7 And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.
1Sa 10:8 And thou shalt go down before me to Gilgal; and, behold, I will come down unto thee, to offer burnt offerings, and to sacrifice sacrifices of peace offerings: seven days shalt thou tarry, till I come to thee, and shew thee what thou shalt do.
1Sa 10:9 And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.


Eze_18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Is being another man and having another heart (new man and new heart) after receiving the Holy Spirit the same as being born again? I say yes!


2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Eph_4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.


Also, this is how one could inherit eternal life before the new covenant came into effect:

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Luk 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luk 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.


The concept of regeneration is well known in the OT. Anyone that knows the bible knows that this is true:

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?


Barnes:

John 3:10
A master of Israel - A “teacher” of Israel; the same word that in the second verse is translated “teacher.” As such a teacher he ought to have understood this doctrine. It was not new,” but was clearly taught in the Old Testament. See particularly Psa_51:10, Psa_51:16-17; Eze_11:19; Eze_36:26. It may seem surprising that a man whose business it was to teach the people should be a stranger to so plain and important a doctrine

Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

 

[6 Stories]

When Jesus went to Heaven !

Exactly!

 

[6 Stories]

OT saints were born again. Being born again isn't a new thing.


Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?


The implication is that being born again was not a new teaching and "masters" of OT scripture should have known this already. That means being born again is found in the OT:

They should have, but obviously they did not.

1Sa 10:6 And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
1Sa 10:7 And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.
1Sa 10:8 And thou shalt go down before me to Gilgal; and, behold, I will come down unto thee, to offer burnt offerings, and to sacrifice sacrifices of peace offerings: seven days shalt thou tarry, till I come to thee, and shew thee what thou shalt do.
1Sa 10:9 And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.

King Saul rejected God and was later filled with an evil spirit which could only be driven out when David played his music.

Eze_18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Is being another man and having another heart (new man and new heart) after receiving the Holy Spirit the same as being born again? I say yes!

The answer to your question is yes. Israel did not have the power to cast away all of their transgressions. That is, they did not have the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit. It came upon them once in a while, but it did not stay.

2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Eph_4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.


Also, this is how one could inherit eternal life before the new covenant came into effect:

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Luk 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luk 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

And yet nobody could keep the whole law and inherit eternal life through works. For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Eternal life is a gift. Eternal life can't be earned by keeping the law. Jesus explained all of this, and when he died, he sent the Holy Spirit which now abides in all believers. The Holy Spirit in us is our righteousness. This is our gift of eternal life. Our flesh still needs to die because of our sin.

The concept of regeneration is well known in the OT. Anyone that knows the bible knows that this is true:

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?


Barnes:

John 3:10
A master of Israel - A “teacher” of Israel; the same word that in the second verse is translated “teacher.” As such a teacher he ought to have understood this doctrine. It was not new,” but was clearly taught in the Old Testament. See particularly Psa_51:10, Psa_51:16-17; Eze_11:19; Eze_36:26. It may seem surprising that a man whose business it was to teach the people should be a stranger to so plain and important a doctrine

Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

King David had an abiding presence of the Holy Spirit. Same with John the Baptist. I'm not sure if it stayed with them until death.

Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

These are prophecies which have a future fulfillment for the nation of Israel which has largely rejected Jesus.

We now have the concept of eternal life in our bodies, but this is still a future event.
Israel had the concept of the abiding Spirit, but it was and largely still is a future event for them.

 

[ewq1938]

And yet nobody could keep the whole law and inherit eternal life through works. For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

The OT had a process for the forgiveness of sins. It was more complicated than the way Christ now provides.

 

[ScottA]

John 3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Old Testament saints received the Holy Spirit just prior to "we who are alive and remain"--that is just prior to those who receive the Holy Spirit since Pentecost..."but each one in his own order."

But I digress. The actual truth, is that all--all who are "in Christ" received (past tense) the Holy Spirit when Jesus ascended on high--just as He was also slain "before the foundation of the world."

 

[Pearl]

King David had the Holy Spirit.

Psalm 51:11
Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.

 

[Chadrho]

John 3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Sporadically they received the Spirit, if ever. Have you ever read of so much bloodshed? Part of the problem is ancient Israel operated as a kingdom of this world. What is the Spirit to do with that? Even the best of them happily engaged in violence for God's sake. There was no Spirit in any of that. At least, it wasn't the Spirit of Christ, who teaches us to deny ourselves and take up our cross. The Spirit is hostile to the "flesh," and the "flesh" loves violence, especially when it can be justified in God's name. Who kills in the name of Christ? No one with the Spirit. If they do, they do it by another spirit, e g., the spirit of greed or fear

 

[Tommy Cool]

OT believers had the spirit upon them conditionally ...they could not be born again until... after Pentecost

 

[ewq1938]

OT believers had the spirit upon them conditionally ...they could not be born again until... after Pentecost

No, Christ said people were born again in the OT.

 

[6 Stories]

The OT had a process for the forgiveness of sins. It was more complicated than the way Christ now provides.

The righteousness of God was made know in the OT, but it was not understood. In the sermon on the mount, Jesus showed that the best of the Jews had no idea what the law entailed. For example: Hatred is murder.
I think one of the greatest mercies of God is not revealing to us all of our sins at the same time.

Hebrews 10:1-4
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Romans 3:20-21
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

 

[ewq1938]

The righteousness of God was made know in the OT, but it was not understood.

So? We are talking about the fact that there was true and full forgiveness of sin in the OT as well as people being born again. Neither was a NT concept but both were perfected by Christ.

 

[6 Stories]

Old Testament saints received the Holy Spirit just prior to "we who are alive and remain"--that is just prior to those who receive the Holy Spirit since Pentecost..."but each one in his own order."

How is bodily resurrection relevant to the time people receive the Holy Spirit?

But I digress. The actual truth, is that all--all who are "in Christ" received (past tense) the Holy Spirit when Jesus ascended on high--just as He was also slain "before the foundation of the world."

I believe the moment Jesus arrived on high is pictured in Rev 5:6.

"And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth."

Much is seen in heaven, but there is a lack of saints. Where do you think OT saints went when they died? Did OT saints receive the Holy Spirit at that moment in Rev 5:6? Pentecost was still a near future event.

 

[6 Stories]

King David had the Holy Spirit.

Psalm 51:11
Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.

I mentioned King David and John the Baptist. I am not sure what to make of that.

 

[6 Stories]

OT believers had the spirit upon them conditionally ...they could not be born again until... after Pentecost

Paul talks about the election of grace for OT believers.

Romans 11
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

It has always been God's grace which has saved mankind. This continues into the present time.

It appears that you can have God's grace without the Spirit, but you can't enter God's Kingdom without the Spirit.
That doesn't sound right, but I would be interested in different opinions.

 

[6 Stories]

So? We are talking about the fact that there was true and full forgiveness of sin in the OT as well as people being born again. Neither was a NT concept but both were perfected by Christ.

I think we are talking about God's grace throughout time, with or without the Holy Spirit. See my post to Tommy Cool.

 

[Davy]

Ps 51:10-11
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from Thy presence; and take not Thy holy spirit from me.
KJV


Isa 63:11
11 Then He remembered the days of old, Moses, and His people, saying, Where is He That brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of His flock? where is He That put His holy Spirit within him?
KJV

We can see by the above that God did impart The Holy Spirit into some of His servants back in Old Testament times. And it must be remembered that He did that for His specific 'chosen' ones that were called into His service, like king David, the Patriarchs, and prophets.

2 Peter 1:20-21
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
KJV

So we shouldn't be ignorantly putting limitations on when and whom God chooses to give The Holy Spirit to, not for back then, nor for today.

 

[ScottA]

How is bodily resurrection relevant to the time people receive the Holy Spirit?

I was not specifically addressing "bodily resurrection." But since you asked, the only bodily resurrection was the earthly/worldly foreshadowing bodies when Christ was crucified that the prophecy should be fulfilled, and Christ himself. Because of this the resurrection and ascension are often confused--which is a confusion that comes when one believes the physical types or foreshadowing accounts or enactment mean the flesh or physical body inherits the kingdom of God or ascends into heaven. But it does not--it "cannot", meaning that understanding is rather a misunderstanding and not correct.

Scripturally then, the resurrection includes the worldly/earthly types and foreshadowings as physical, but the ascension does not--as "God is spirit." Thus, the passage I quoted: "we who are alive and remain", refers rather not to the flesh body, but only to the spiritual body--the only body which by God's definition is actually "alive."

I believe the moment Jesus arrived on high is pictured in Rev 5:6.

"And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth."

Much is seen in heaven, but there is a lack of saints. Where do you think OT saints went when they died? Did OT saints receive the Holy Spirit at that moment in Rev 5:6? Pentecost was still a near future event.

All the saints are "in Christ." Granted, with such a great multitude, it is hard to fathom Christ and his body (the church) which once were the dead and the living, as being "One" and how so many can be included in being the only "begotten" Son in whom we are a part.

 

[Tommy Cool]

No, Christ said people were born again in the OT.

Everything in my research shows differently. There is nothing I can find in the OT (which includes the gospels) that indicates anyone was being born again prior to Pentecost.

OT believers had the spirit upon them or in them…. but it was conditional depending on the faithfulness of their walk… That does not diminish them as believers as Hebrews 11 clearly states … But being born again of incorruptible seed was not available. If it had been available …. would their even have been a need God to send His Son to redeem mankind from the clutches of Satan and death.

Thirty-seven times throughout the OT (not including gospels) of just the term “spirit upon” is used….. including…. Num_11:26 → Eldad & Medad ….. Num_24:12 → Balaam ….. Judges_3:9 → Othniel ….. Judges_6:34 → Gideon ….. Judges_14:6 → Samson ….. Judges_15:4 Lehi ….. 1 Sam_ 11:6, 16:13, 19:20 → Saul ….. 2 Kings_2:9 → Elisha ….. 2 Chron_15:1 → Azariah ….. 2 Chron_24:20 → Zachariah ….. Isaiah_59:21 → Isaiah ….. Ezekial_ 3:24, 11:5, 37:1 → Ezekial ……………..to name a few.

But only two times in the Epistles are the words “spirit upon” used ...

*Once in I Peter…. Which was written to those born-again Jews who were scattered about in what later became known as Asia minor.
*1Pe 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: [ on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.]
[[ The words crossed out in italics are omitted in most all critical Greek text including Aramaic Peshitta ]]

This is the same verb “rest” used in Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


The second is in Acts which is part of the quote from Joel 2:28-32

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: