You really shouldn't try to put words into my mouth. You are not able to duplicate my thinking on this apparently.
Much love!
The Kingdom of God.... Is it within you?
- Thread starter rwb
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Much love!
Your thinking is easily recognized by the dearth of NT Scriptural support for it.
Can I ask you a question about your thinking? Are you saying you yourself are under the new covenant but someone who is born a “Jew” (whatever that means) is under the old covenant?
I'm in the new covenant in Christ's blood. A Jew who has believed and is born again likewise is in the new covenant in Christ's blood.
Concerning the old covenant made with Israel, the requirements were fulfilled on Israel's behalf by Christ. It's been prophesied that at the end of the age, when Christ returns, all who remain alive of Israel will come to faith in Him, receiving "a spirit of grace and supplication", and will receive the benefits of their covenant, having been fulfilled on their behalf, which begins the kingdom age, Jesus Himself ruling from Jerusalem, the nation to be a kingdom of priests, every cooking pot in Jerusalem Holy to the LORD, that is, to be used to cook the sacrifice.
Much love!
This is the schoolyard tone I was talking about. I'm really interested in a more mature discussion.
Much love!
Ok, I’m not arguing here just wondering, would you say then that it’s possible for someone to be both under the new covenant and be a Jew that will receive the benefits of the old covenant? Or does a Jew forfeit the old covenant benefits if they come to faith prior to His return?
You made the statement “when Christ returns all who remain alive of Israel will come to faith in Him”, if a Jew has already come to faith then the promise that they will come to faith when He returns doesn’t apply to a Jew already believes.
It's just a comparison. Children are known for immature interactions, and if the shoe fits . . .Since I've never heard of it, how could I be guilty of it?
Much love!
As I understand things, in the current time, mostly Gentiles, and some Israelites, are coming to faith in Christ, though most of Israel has been blinded, and do not come. Those who do, are counted with the Gentiles as all those who are in Christ. In Christ is neither Greek nor Jew.
At some time to come, all who are "in Christ" will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. This will be the "fullness of the Gentiles", after which the blindness will be removed from Israel.
When Jesus returns, all of Israel will be saved, and the nations will be gathered to be judged. Those who pass judgment - the sheep - are invited into the kingdom that Jesus will rule.
This kingdom will be the kingdom that had been prophesied in many places in the Bible, being the fulfillment of the covenant made with Israel at Sinai. That kingdom is the kingdom Jesus offered when He came to His people, said offer not fulfilled in those days due to their unbelief. When they see Him, there will be no more unbelief. And the kingdom that was promised will come.
Remember, the new covenant was promised to Israel, and included that they would keep all the statues and precepts of their covenant. They will receive a heart and spirit that will keep everything, and in so doing, receive all the blessings, something that isn't happening now.
Before Christ, and until Cornelius' conversion, the way to have a covenant relationship with God was to convert to Judaism, to proselytize into Israel. With Cornelius, Gentiles were invited directly to join the new covenant, though not to receive what was promised to Israel. Those promises remain for Israel, and will be fulfilled in their due time.
There is much more that can be said, naturally, but I'm more interested in your thoughts so far.
Much love!
Well, I don’t agree with all that you’re saying, but I was initially thinking, if your view is correct, that a person who was a Jew would have to weigh out their options before accepting Jesus. To some Jews it may be better to not accept Jesus now and retain the old covenant promises, this would be especially true if they thought His coming was close.
You lost me at the “fullness of the Gentiles”, I think that already came in the first century. Why would a rapture be the fullness of the Gentiles? I thought the Daniel animal depicted Gentile kingdoms is what the fullness of the Gentiles is referring to.
Brother, this is a prophecy of the gospel to come. It's a picture of the Israel of God and was fulfilled through the gospel when Jesus came. We need to read it with spiritual eyes - eyes of faith. All the prophecies of Israel being "gathered" are about Israel being gathered to Christ. As opposed to being "scattered" and away from God.
Today is the day of salvation. No one knows what the next minute holds for them. Any one of us could drop dead without a moment's notice.
In Paul's Mars Hill address, one of the things he said was that we were born when and where we were so that we would seek God. So He knows what is right for us.
Much love!
I say, those eyes of faith need to believe the words written. This is really going to happen:
Ezekiel 39:25-29 KJV
25) Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
26) After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
27) When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
28) Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29) Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
Much love!
Matthew 19:27-28 KJV
27) Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28) And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
A literal kingdom, with literal thrones? The 12 Apostles judging the 12 tribes? Why wouldn't it be? Jesus, sitting on a throne of glory? Why not?
Much love!
Could you tell me what you understand "the fullness of Gentiles" to mean?
Much love!
"house of Israel" is the northern tribes who were scattered and dispersed into the nations quite early on.....the gospel was preached to the dispersed of Israel as well as to the Jews of Judah and Jerusalem. House of Israel I believe is also allegorical for the Gentile "elect" (chosen) in the nations who would be gathered to the gospel. But it's all speaking of the Israel of God. The promises are only fulfilled in Christ. The Spirit is only poured out upon believers in Christ, and that began 2000 years ago.
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