When did this happen?

[ElieG12]

What do you think about when this did happen:

Hb. 1:4 So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.

1) Did that happen when Jesus was begotten (i.e. at the moment of his origin)?

2) Did that happen when he was exalted and crowned king in heaven?

... or in any other moment?

Let's talk about the implications of your answer to that question.

 

[Mr E]

What do you think about when this did happen:

Hb. 1:4 So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.

1) Did that happen when Jesus was begotten (i.e. at the moment of his origin)?

2) Did that happen when he was exalted and crowned king in heaven?

... or in any other moment?

Let's talk about the implications of your answer to that question.

I think the answer to your question is given in the preceding verse>>>

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Verse 4 is actually just a continuation of the same premise.


The implications of the whole idea however, is profound entirely. It's the basis of the belief or understanding of the nature of the son of God being distinct from Him.

 

[ElieG12]

I think the answer to your question is given in the preceding verse>>>

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Verse 4 is actually just a continuation of the same premise.


The implications of the whole idea however, is profound entirely. It's the basis of the belief or understanding of the nature of the son of God being distinct from Him.

Thanks for the reply.

Notice this verse:

Acts 4:12 Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.

That name that implies salvation was given only AFTER Jesus' death and resurrection, not before. So, at that moment Jesus had THAT NAME given to him, since his name was given to us as a mean to be saved. After that event is, according to Hb. 1:4, when Jesus became better (in that sense) than angels, not before, since before that moment Jesus' name didn't have any meaning for men and he was not in any sense, important to us, since we didn't even know who he was.

Pro. 30:4 (...) Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is his name and the name of his son—if you know?

Now we know why Jesus was not better than angels before his name became important for our salvation ... it has nothing to do with the fact of Jesus being or being not an angel of God; So, quoting Hb. 1:4 to support that idea is incorrect, because that is not what that verse is saying.

Hb. 1:4 So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.

 

[RedFan]

What do you think about when this did happen:

Hb. 1:4 So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.

1) Did that happen when Jesus was begotten (i.e. at the moment of his origin)?

2) Did that happen when he was exalted and crowned king in heaven?

... or in any other moment?

Let's talk about the implications of your answer to that question.

My vote is for the latter. As for the implications,

John 8:50 quotes Christ as declaring that he did not seek his own glory, suggesting that the sacrifice of Christ was purely an act of selfless love. Yet Heb. 12:2 suggests that Christ endured the cross “for the joy that was set before him,” i.e., exaltation to the right-hand seat in the throne room of God. What are the implications of that?

 

[ElieG12]

My vote is for the latter. As for the implications,

John 8:50 quotes Christ as declaring that he did not seek his own glory, suggesting that the sacrifice of Christ was purely an act of selfless love. Yet Heb. 12:2 suggests that Christ endured the cross “for the joy that was set before him,” i.e., exaltation to the right-hand seat in the throne room of God. What are the implications of that?

Implication: Jesus didn't become better than the angels before his death. (Hb. 1:4)

Hb. 1:9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.

 

[RedFan]

I meant, what are the implications of the discrepancy between John 8:50 and Heb. 12:2? Why did he go to the cross? Selfless motivation (John) or selfish motivation (Hebrews)?

 

[ElieG12]

I meant, what are the implications of the discrepancy between John 8:50 and Heb. 12:2? Why did he go to the cross? Selfless motivation (John) or selfish motivation (Hebrews)?

Out of topic.

Anyway: Jesus came to earth to fulfill a mission. He knew that he would have to die, and then he would be resurrected and credit would be given for having fulfilled everything to the full.

Hb. 5:7 During his life on earth, Christ offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears, to the One who was able to save him out of death, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear. 8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. 9 And after he had been made perfect, he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him, 10 because he has been designated by God a high priest in the manner of Melchizedek.

The point of this topic is: when did Jesus become "better than the angels" (Hb. 1:4)?

 

[RedFan]

I suppose it is out of topic. I'll start a new thread on it some day.

 

[ElieG12]

I suppose it is out of topic. I'll start a new thread on it some day.

And I will give the answer to your question as soon as you open that thread.