1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured When is Judgment day ?

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Bible_Gazer, Feb 7, 2020.

  1. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,938
    Likes Received:
    4,009
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    No.

    A man is a body, has body...It is the same thing, that a man can call himself that he is ... "I" or possessively, has.."mine, my"

    That Body IS sentenced to Death. It shall die.
    It came from dust and will return to dust.

    A man is a living soul, has a living soul...it is the same thing... that a man can call himself that he is ... "I" or possessively, has.."mine, my" and
    can become Sentenced to death/ destruction. Or Saved from death/destruction.

    It came from God, has Gods life IN it...and ONCE imparted into a body, the life of the Body begins Living.

    The soul belongs to God.
    The LIFE in the soul belongs to God.
    A man can corrupt the soul...but the man can not Save or Send the soul out of his body.
    The salvation/ saving the soul, is Gods POWER.
    The Forgiveness/ of a corrupt soul, is by the Offering of Jesus' blood.
    The restoring of a corrupt soul, IS by an individuals Request...and EFFECTED By Gods POWER.

    So no, --->

    A soul can BECOME SUBJECT TO death/ destruction...

    A soul can BECOME MADE "restored" and then never in jeopardy of becoming SUBJECT to death/destruction.

    The LIFE in the soul, is only Gods LIFE. That LIFE will forever remain in a Saved Living soul.

    The LIFE in a corrupt soul, that remains corrupt...Gods LIFE Will DEPART the soul, return to God, and the soul destroyed <--->. That shall occur After Judgement.

    Oxygen is one of the earth's elements that Keeps an ALIVE body living.

    Gods Breath blown into a body, is Gods Life. It doesn't keep the Body alive...it remains in the body, until the body is physically dying, at which time the living soul departs out of the body.

    Oxygen is the air, an ALIVE body Breaths in, exhales out. A body can hold its breath, force the air out, force the air into a place, like a tube or balloon.
    But he can not control the living soul of God... making Gods life, soul...enter or exit a body or force it to go to a particular place.

    Further reading from the preliminary introduction of man, a soul and even the spirit of man...we learn:
    The body, soul, spirit are separate things... and Changed, Restored, made Holy...by Gods POWER or Become DEAD and destroyed, By Gods POWER.

    Whatever thing has Gods LIFE in it...the LIFE always returns to God, before the thing is destroyed.

    Oxygen THAT a man Breath IN and out, as WASTE,
    Is not Gods Breath.

    Gods Breath is Life.
     
  2. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

    Messages:
    30,830
    Likes Received:
    10,641
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States Minor Outlying Islands
    ha he just says that bc he doesnt know, and so assumes that everyone does not know, but Understand I AM makes the answer kind of inevitable i guess? Bible Search: today NT

    John 5:22 Lexicon: "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son,

    whoever does the will of Yah, they are the sons of Yah
    paraphrased
     
  3. Bible_Gazer

    Bible_Gazer Active Member

    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    74
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Acts 13:45-46
    45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul,
    contradicting and blaspheming.
    46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said,
    It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you:
    but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

    Our decision can be our judgment against us
    can lose everlasting life
     
  4. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,916
    Likes Received:
    593
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    So then, according to your thinking, an unsaved soul has eternal life.
     
  5. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,938
    Likes Received:
    4,009
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Wow! Or course not! Nor did I say or imply any such thing.
     
  6. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,916
    Likes Received:
    593
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Yes, by the context, but not in the perspective that most understand it. You will see how "perspectives" are changed in us, through word changes and nuances by the newer bible versions, in comparison to the KJV.
    A. KJV- John 5[ 25] Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
    > Notice that in the KJV, nowhere does it say that people in their graves shall hear Jesus' voice!
    So then, the question must be asked: " How are they dead, if not in their graves, but hear His voice"?
    Ans. They are physically alive, but are dead to God.

    B.
    KJV- Daniel 12[ 2] And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
    > Did you want to think that people were asleep in their graves? Nope! That is NOT what Jesus is saying. He is saying that they are spiritually asleep within "the dust" of themselves. Why?
    > Genesis 2[ 7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,...

    > Ok, so how shall they awake?
    Ans. They shall hear His voice, while they are physically alive, though being spiritually dead to God. John 5:25.
    > They become awake to what?
    Ans. They spiritually awake (are quickened-made alive) to knowing God, by acting in faith believing, after they hear Jesus' "voice", by His Holy Spirit/through Jesus' words, calling them to believe in Him.

    C. Most of Revelation is written in symbolic language.
    Rev. 20 [ 1 ] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
    > Bottomless pit- aka endless grave/death. Satan's only place of residence and travel is this earth. It is the grave place of his endless death.

    > A literal chain of enormous strength? No!
    Satan is in "chains of [spiritual] darkness", as in solitary confinement, being kept from "the truth of God".
    IOWS, during the Age of God's Grace, satan is not allowed to know spiritually, of what is going on.
    > See KJV 2 Peter 2:4 for greater understanding about that.

    [
    2 ] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
    > Satan, a murderer from the beginning, is bound from what?
    Ans. From conquering the church. As Jesus said: "The gates of hell [the ways of death] shall not prevail against it [the church]".
    Matthew 16:18.

    > When was satan bound [restrained] from overpowering the church?
    Ans. At the time of Jesus' death, resurrection and ascension. That is when He bound the "strongman", who is satan, and has been winning over his "goods" to Himself ever since then!
    > See KJV Matthew 12:29, Mark 3:27, Luke 11:21 for the details.

    > In 2 Peter 3:8-9, what is the meaning of"a thousand years"?
    Actually, 2 Peter 3:9 explains 3:8, in that God has no specific date as to how long He shall suffer (longsuffering) in His Patience, waiting for ALL to come to repentance!

    > When did God begin waiting in His longsuffering?

    Ans. Ever since the Day of Pentecost!
    > So then, what is the meaning for God to say "a thousand years" through Peter?
    Ans. It is a figure of speech, being symbolic of God WAITING for a very long time, with no specific limit on time itself. Its akin to our saying:
    "When will you get that leaky roof fixed, until kingdom come"?

    > Don't you see? 2 Peter 3:8-9 is not only THE answer to the "thousand years" in Revelation, but it is also telling us when it is. Its happening NOW.
    But, if you don't percieve the symbolic "a thousand years" as taking place now, being that of God's Age of Grace, then you will always read "a thousand years" as being literal, and therefore shall fabricate and manufacture fictional stories to tell of a KoG on earth, consisting of unrepentant survivors, escapees of the Lord's wrath in flaming fire.
    KJV- 2Thessalonians 1:8

    Why you choose to be defiant of the words: "flesh and blood cannot inherit the KoG", and "they shall not escape", you really don't know!
    1 Corinthians 15:50, 1 Thessalonians 5:1
     
  7. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,916
    Likes Received:
    593
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I understand your concept. You are saying that all living things that God breathed the breath of life through their nostrils, is become a living soul.
     
  8. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,916
    Likes Received:
    593
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    So now my question is, when God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life, did Adam breathe in (inhale) at that exact same time, or did he breathe out (exhale) after God breathed into his nostrils?
     
  9. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,916
    Likes Received:
    593
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
  10. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,916
    Likes Received:
    593
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Yes, the subconscious mind controls the pumping of the heart, as well as the operations of the lungs to inhale and exhale. Every organ, and its cells, the brain included, demand oxygenated blood to stay alive. Shall we say that the subconscious mind is the soul?
    BTW, in your daily life, how often do you consciously think about your internal organs?
    1. Continuously.
    2. Sometimes.
    3. Rarely.

    When is the last time you thought about your Pituritary gland and what that does?

    My point is, oxygenated blood takes care of all your organs without you thinking about it.
    So, my conclusion is, if at any moment you could not consciouly breathe oxygenated air, due some kind of restriction beyond your control, you would
    1. Live anyways inspite of the restriction.
    2. Pass out for a short time, but remain alive.
    3. Die in a very short time, and remain dead.

    Since #3 is the logical outcome, what two internal organs must function immediately, to stave off death, for your continuance to live as "a living soul" ?
     
  11. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,938
    Likes Received:
    4,009
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    No. That is not what I said.

    Mankind is a Flesh body.
    * (from a mans seed)
    Mankind Has a Flesh body.
    * (born after 9 mo. of a man's seed)
    * It's life is it's BLOOD.
    * It belongs to man.
    (Man can Kill its own Flesh Body)
    * That Flesh body IS corrupt, it shall die.

    Mankind is a Living soul.
    * (made by God, Belongs to God)
    Mankind Has a Living soul.
    * ( given by God, by God Blowing it into the man)
    * The soul has Gods Life)
    * Mankind can NOT kill a Living soul.

    When the mans Body dies...the body is buried and decays, returning to Dust.

    When the body Is dying...the Living soul comes Back Out Of the Body...and Goes one of Two Places.
    IF the FLESH man, has believed IN God, the Living Soul goes UP TO Heaven.
    IF the FLESH man, has NOT believed IN God,
    the Living goes DOWN TO Hell.
    (Gods Life belongs to God.
    All Souls belong to God)

    Heaven is a Place Where Departed Living souls Are "With" God.
    Hell is a Place Where Departed Living souls Are "Without" God. (separated From God.)

    Living Souls, IN Heaven and IN Hell ARE Waiting to be Judged and Sentenced.

    When a man IS Naturally Born...
    It is given a Name.
    That Name...is the Name of BOTH...
    The Body and Soul.

    The Body, Breaths Air, IN and Out.
    The Soul (Contains Gods Breath of Life)
    That is Breathed Into a mans body.
    That Breath of God, Remains IN the body of a man....Until, the body is Dying. Then by Gods Control, it leaves the dying Body...and is Sent to Heaven or Hell.

    Mankind Has a Natural spirit,
    * (the Hearts Truth.)
    * Some men; (from their Natural spirit, Confess Their True Belief IN God).
    ^ They ^ receive a circumcised/cut off Old Heart.
    ^ They^ receive a New Heart.
    ^They^ receive a New SEED (Gods SEED)
    The New SEED, Gods SEED, Births the man A NEW "spirit".
    The Spirit of God, enters the man's "NEW" spirit.
    The Spirit of God, Gives the man's new "spirit", a NEW TRUTH ... Gods TRUTH "and" will ALSO will Give HIS Understanding of HIS Truth...(dependant UPON the man Continuing HEARING and DOING Gods Will.)

    The HEARING...is Specific to Gods Doctrine, (NOT...MANMADE doctrines).
    The DOING...is Works.

    * WORKS are:
    Speaking and Spreading Gods WORD, His Doctrine...(not man's).
    Speaking and Spreading Gods WORD, Gods Doctrine, Glorifies God.
    Men Speaking and Spreading a mans OWN manmade doctrine, Does Not Glorify God.

    WORKS Do Not Save a man's soul...
    Belief and True Heartful Confession Saves a man's soul.

    WORKS OF a Saved soul and Quickened (born Again spirit)... that Does WORKS to Glorify God...shall be rewarded By God...via Great Blessings and Gifts.

    (God gives blessings and Gifts to unsaved souls...they are temporary blessings and gifts, iN EFFECT ONLY while the man's body is still Alive)

    GREAT Gifts and Blessings Given A Saved and Born Again man...Continue and LAST Forever. Because such a man Shall receive, A New IMMORTAL glorious body.

    No. The living thing that is Become A a soul is Mankind of thing, out of the dust of the Earth.

    Animals...receive A soul, with Gods Breath of Life. They also require Air to Breath. They also have Blood LIFE, and shall die.

    They are NOT Named by their mommy and daddy.
    They do Not have a requirement to hear, speak, spread Gods Word to their Like Kinds of things...or any other things.
    They were NOT CREATED in Gods Likeness or Image.
    They Do Not Sin.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  12. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,916
    Likes Received:
    593
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    But, God's Life is an Eternally Living Spirit!
    If our life is directly from God, as you say, then should it not follow that "a living soul" shall have God's Eternal Life also? But if not, then God created another FORM of life force, that is separate from Himself.

    You know what? Instead of all your head spinning, "religious" minded, long winded conjecture, how about just accepting the simple truth of that which Moses did not know!
    Gen.[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils [oxygenated air]; and man became a living soul.
     
  13. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,938
    Likes Received:
    4,009
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Your answer to your question is not elaborated in Scripture, or necessary to know to Glorify God.

    One could Speculate, by what occurs during a specific person's birth by what Is known during an individual's birth.

    A Separation of the baby from the mother Occurs at the moment, the embilical cord is cut.
    Is that the moment God breaths a Living soul INTO the Individual person?
    (My personal take IS Yes, because UP until that time...the baby is not an individual, but IS being sustained by the Placenta within the mother).
    And what about the baby's first Breath of air?
    Does that happen, before, after, a few Seconds after, requires assistance (clearing its mouth, tap on the back, a mechanical ventilator, or not at all and the baby not alive even though there is plenty of air in the room?

    Doesn't matter the exact time.

    And remember Adam was not Naturally Born.
    I would presume, As God was giving Adam a Livin soul, Adam then also inhaled a Breath of air...and then exhaled the air...and repeated that event until his body died.

    But then again, it doesn't matter.
    A breathing man is not the measure by which a man Glorifies God.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  14. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,938
    Likes Received:
    4,009
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    God IS a Spirit.
    God Has A Spirit.
    Gods Spirit has specific Spirits He Gives To men.
    Not All men receive the Same Spirits from God.
    But Any Spirit a man does receive fro God is from the Same One Spirit.
    And FYI - Gods Spirit IS His supreme POWER,
    (Pure Uncorruptable Light)
    And Gods Spirit has a Title: which IS CHRIST.

    God IS LIFE.
    God HAS Life, that He Gives TO Things He has Created.
    When God Gives Life to things He Has CREATED...that "MAKES", those CREATED things ALIVE.

    The Creating, is by God
    The Making, is by: Jesus Christ. (the maker) the Word of God, the LIFE of God, the Power of God.

    .

    I did not say that!

    You know what?
    You ask me questions.
    I give a precise answer.
    You then say "I think" , something Completely different than what I Said.

    How about you stop pretending you can make up crap and say that is what "I Think", when that is a Lie.

    If Moses is your topic, then stay on point and speak in a complete sentence...
    What "Simple TRUTH" did Mose "NOT Know"?i

    Gen 1:7 does not say Oxygenated air.

    Oxygenated air is one of Gods Creations...
    So since you said:
    God breathed into man Oxygenated air...
    Gods Breath comes out from God...
    Do you believe Gods Breath IS Oxygenated Air?
     
  15. Bible_Gazer

    Bible_Gazer Active Member

    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    74
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    So there is two types of life lso to say. ?
    1. the life giving at the beginning of life - which is temporal
    2. the life giving at Pentecost which is life eternal - the Holy Spirit of life of God
     
    Taken likes this.
  16. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,916
    Likes Received:
    593
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Lets just take a look at what you just said, and examine the simple mechanics of a baby's first breath.

    Naturally the lungs must first be filled with oxygenated air. So now, we must view that process in its mechanics.
    Now, after the baby is separated from the mother, the baby will temporarily live off of the oxygenated blood supply of the mother. It is at that point of birth, that the baby must breathe with its lungs.

    Does the baby's oxygenated active brain send the message to inhale, due to the negative pressure in the lungs, or does God exhale His breath into the baby lungs, thus applying a positive pressure of air in the lungs, causing the baby to then exhale, and to repeat the performance, feeding its ownself with oxygenated air?

    "Taken", you are probably wondering why I am so insistent, in my discussion on this topic. Its mainly due to what you already touched upon.
    Only Adam was Created by God! For that matter, even Eve, for all intent and purposes, was not literally created from the "dust of the earth", but rather indirectly from out of Adam. Hence, all of THEIR decendants, you and I etc., are then pro-created through their SEED.

    IOWS, after Adam Eve, God was no longer creating anyone through Adam and Eve.
    Do you hear that? God is NOT in the business of giving birth to babies!!
     
  17. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,938
    Likes Received:
    4,009
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    And then there is the spirit of man...natural UNTIL it is given the SEED of God, and Born Again to a new creature.

    That is the Whole a man CAN become...
    DEAD BODY to be RAISED in a glorious body.
    Saved and restored soul
    Born Again spirit.

    A Wholly Whole man Is he whom Jesus is coming to Redeem. (Claimand take unto Himself).

    God Bless ,
    Taken
     
  18. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,938
    Likes Received:
    4,009
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States

    That would be a question for God.

    Ask God.

    Lungs of a man require air.
    I don't believe a person is Taught their brain must think about inhaling or exhaling...a man can try to control his breathing...hold his breath for example...but by design man will Breath on his own (excepting a damage or disease).

    I don't see the signifance of your questions.


    Actually God CREATED man and Woman and gave them the Name Adam,

    Gen.5
    [1] This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
    [2] Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

    It is a foreshadow...
    ONE identity.
    One male...
    Out from the One, comes One that Is the One, and The One Names the One that comes forth out from him. Adam named Eve.

    God is One, and out from God Comes One, that is the One, and the One Names the One that came forth. God Named Jesus. Yet one identity.

    John 10: 30
    I and my father are One.

    [/QUOTE]IOWS, after Adam Eve, God was no longer creating anyone through Adam and Eve.
    Do you hear that? God is NOT in the business of giving birth to babies!![/QUOTE]

    Never said God Births baby's.

    God gave every body it's own SEED to reproduce..
    However God is in the business of Forming the Body.

    And the Body's He forms He has given opportunity by His Offering for that body to become Changed...and receive Adoption by God, as a son of god...
    A son...even females are a son of God.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  19. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,938
    Likes Received:
    4,009
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States

    That would be a question for God.

    Ask God.

    Lungs of a man require air.
    I don't believe a person is Taught their brain must think about inhaling or exhaling...a man can try to control his breathing...hold his breath for example...but by design man will Breath on his own (excepting a damage or disease).

    I don't see the signifance of your questions.




    Actually God CREATED man and Woman and gave them the Name Adam,

    Gen.5
    [1] This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
    [2] Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

    It is a foreshadow...
    ONE identity.
    One male...
    Out from the One, comes One that Is the One, and The One Names the One that comes forth out from him. Adam named Eve.

    God is One, and out from God Comes One, that is the One, and the One Names the One that came forth. God Named Jesus. Yet one identity.

    John 10: 30
    I and my father are One.

    [/QUOTE]IOWS, after Adam Eve, God was no longer creating anyone through Adam and Eve.
    Do you hear that? God is NOT in the business of giving birth to babies!![/QUOTE]

    Nothing in Scripture ever said God was in the business of giving birth to babies.

    Fertilized seeds reproduce its same kind of thing.

    God CREATED man, very good.
    ONCE Adam fell from being very good, all men forward are from (corrupt, not very good seeds of men).

    But God Offers men a WAY, to become Good, and acceptably to God.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  20. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,916
    Likes Received:
    593
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    ^ In addition to my previous post for reference:
    ^ Genesis 4[25] And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
    Not so fast!! I think we have been here before!

    Adam and Eve had NOT YET partaken of the "Tree of knowledge of good and evil". Therefore, they were not evil, nor were they good. They were ONLY innocent from their creation.
     
Loading...