When to Leave Church

[Ronald Nolette]

On that point, I do not think any one can doubt what you mean but nowadays, a Baptist church can wind up being Pentecostal even, but still call themselves a Baptist.

Some Protestants can wind up defending the Catholic Church & teaching for them even.

Seems we can only know where the other stand by our words and not by a church; hence by our faith in Jesus Christ & His words rather than the teachings of the church since we are to be His disciples in testifying of the Son to seek His glory rather than a disciple of a church in testifying what the church is about in seeking the glory of the church.

Well it is always what we believe, not where we believe it at that matters most! but we have concepts like even you just did- Catholic evokes certain beliefs as well as Pentecostal and Baptist. These are simply general names that make it easier to identify what a person generally believes.

 

[amigo de christo]

When a church refuses correction by the scripture and refuses to depart from iniquity, leave the church.

I know that believers say there is no perfect church but yet we are to correct one another in Christ's love and if the individual believer refuses to listen and even to repent before the whole congregation, then he is to be excommunicated from the assembly. So we ought to leave the assembly & leave them to Him to get the lost sheep, even if they do get excommunicated from the Marriage Supper in Heaven, for He shall lose none.

Matthew 18: 10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Correct . If the leaders of any said church refuse to follow and teach the oringinal doctrine delivered unto the peoples , then flee them .
For those who sit under such men will fall away and that church will surely leaven to the full in time to come .

 

[amigo de christo]

any leader that does not abide by the teachings of Christ and the apostels , IS NO LEADER and should not lead anyone .
A peoples , a tribe , a tongue who sits under such men will reap destruction unto themselves in the time to come .
Leaven infects and without correction it infects to the FULL . Its high time
true leaders stood up and exposed these false men for what they are and
lead your own peoples up in the way of the original pattern by which if ye do you shall do well .

 

[amigo de christo]

Christ4Me: "I know that believers say there is no perfect church but yet we are to correct one another in Christ's love and if the individual believer refuses to listen and even to repent before the whole congregation, then he is to be excommunicated from the assembly."



Sometimes, a believer can just come across a brother caught in a trespass, but no doubt unsubstantiated gossip can be the means.

Paul addressed a whole church for having knowledge of a brother having his father's wife & did nothing to correct nor anything of the sort in 1 Corinthians 5:1-13 and it did not sound like he was hearing that report from a priest per the confession booth. Indeed, if they had it back then, one would think he would be corrected right away or excommunicated when not repenting rather than the whole church knowing about it.

Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

That is the thing about the Catholic Church. They do not remove priests for molesting children but transfer them somewhere else still in that position of trust to continue molesting children and the Vatican knew about it too. When it comes to any member living in sin, they do not excommunicate at all, but remain in the church in complete disregard to what Jesus said and Paul said for excommunication.

So not a whole lot of good has come out of that practice per the confessional.

And confessing to one another is not limited to the priest as prayer request may be given in church for those struggling with sin.

Galatians 6:1Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. 2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. 17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. 18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit. 19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Reads to me that it is not on the priest alone as if he serves as the single member as the whole body of Christ that is ministering in that body of Christ.

Incidentally, nowadays hardly any church excommunicates and not just the Catholic Church and so the RCC is not alone in having that fault. And churches do have a tendency to treat pastors like superman in doing everything the body of Christ is supposed to do in ministry to one another.

If a man will therefore purge himself from these he shall be a vessel unto honor .
SO i must leave us with this reminder , WHEREFORE COME YE OUT FROM AMONGST THEM
and touch not the unclean thing and God shall recieve you and shall be a Father unto You .
Come ye out from amongst the churches gone wrong for they are not gonna make it. Come ye out
lest ye partake of her sins and of her plagues . FOR STRONG IS THE LORD GOD who shall judge the Harlot and her daughters .

 

[Christ4Me]

Well it is always what we believe, not where we believe it at that matters most! but we have concepts like even you just did- Catholic evokes certain beliefs as well as Pentecostal and Baptist. These are simply general names that make it easier to identify what a person generally believes.

I do not think identifying how or what a believer believes can be done any more when identifying by a church.

 

[Stumpmaster]

When to Leave Church

Many local assemblies are bound by the rules and regulations of their denomination, organisation, or movement. Sometimes attendees are given written notice to comply or be expelled from the congregation. It is difficult to get a consensus on some issues so often it is the leader alone who forces the issue.

I have been in a number of congregations where disruptive behaviour, use of profanity, and heretical beliefs have led to expulsions from meetings.

It cuts both ways. When local assemblies indulge in works of the flesh like overamplifying the sound, embrace Scripturally incompatible things like Theistic Evolution, Freemasonry, Yoga, and Martial Arts, teach doctrines of demons, and display a cultish elitist mentality in their administration, to name a few errors, leaving may be the best option.

Act 20:29-31 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. (30) Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. (31) Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.

 

[Christ4Me]

any leader that does not abide by the teachings of Christ and the apostels , IS NO LEADER and should not lead anyone .
A peoples , a tribe , a tongue who sits under such men will reap destruction unto themselves in the time to come .
Leaven infects and without correction it infects to the FULL . Its high time
true leaders stood up and exposed these false men for what they are and
lead your own peoples up in the way of the original pattern by which if ye do you shall do well .

Unfortunately, it may also mean staying away from a certain denomination under that Presbytery that teaches error also.

 

[amigo de christo]

Unfortunately, it may also mean staying away from a certain denomination under that Presbytery that teaches error also.

All we can do is speak the truth to all my friend . When folks reject truth their is a reason they do so .
God alone is who changes a heart of a lamb . And a lamb will love the truth and not a lie .
If folks continue to embrace lies , even after being corrected , then they must be cast aside as the doctrine plainly teaches .
There is a reason why we must follow the pattern JESUS and the apostles left . Cause it is unwise to take off from heeding
anything they ever taught for any reason . Its a death sentence to do such a thing .
If folks err those who are spiritual must restore such a one , but if they heed not , they must be cast out .
For the safety of the church this must be done . Leaven , left uncorrected will taint the entire church in time .
I have watched this happen too many times . paul knew a lil leaven could leaven the ENTIRE LUMP .
HE was RIGHT . I have seen it way too many times . They get focused on this unity and start over looking errors
and then it just gets worse and worse very fast and the church tankes and all who sat with it fall away unto their own destruction .
I have seen this too many times . Seeker friendly was a reciped cooked up by satan himself to decieve the church
into thinking it was doing good when in truth it would cause them to fall away . AND IT DID and so it does .
WE MUST always correct and be fast to do so . And do the original pattern in all things . IT IS the ONLY PATTERN THAT WORKS .
THE ONLY PATTERN that WORKS .

 

[amigo de christo]

True saints would look out for one another and keep the people stirred up in all sound doctrine . Pointing always to Christ
and to biblical sound doctrine .

 

[Christ4Me]

True saints would look out for one another and keep the people stirred up in all sound doctrine . Pointing always to Christ and to biblical sound doctrine .

I had to take back the like only because there are false judgments about who are true Christians or who are really saved from those that are not and they use false teachings to judge others in that way, even in regards to the rapture by not believing those professing Him that gets left behind were really saved when they were; it was for being workers of iniquity for by that iniquity denying Him ( Titus 1:16 ), is why He denies them. Matthew 7:21-23

By the grace of God and His providence in regards to opportunities, His disciples that are abiding in Him "would look out for one another and keep the people stirred up in all sound doctrine . Pointing always to Christ and to biblical sound doctrine".

That is how I would agree with your comment & like it then.

That includes false prophets which by Jesus's definition, are the little ones that went astray.

Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Once excommunicated, they are still called to repent and when they do, they are allowed back in confessing this so before the whole assembly. If they do not repent before the Bridegroom comes, they get excommunicated as in disqualified to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven, but Jesus said He will get that lost sheep.

In the parable of the ten virgins that ARE the kingdom of heaven, but five were foolish for not being ready for why they were out o the market seeking to be filled with oil ( Holy Spirit ) while the prudent and the wise had oil as they had always known they were Spirit-filled since salvation ( Matthew 9:17 & John 6:35 & Colossians 2:5-10 ) for why they were ready to go when the Bridegroom had come.

And yet missing out on the wedding reception with the Bridegroom that was taking place in that kingdom of heaven, it did not mean the foolish were not in the kingdom of heaven, but that they had missed out in being received by the Bridegroom.

That is why there are the "least" in the kingdom of heaven that break the least of His commandments and teaches others so in Matthew 5:19

 

[Christ4Me]

True saints would look out for one another and keep the people stirred up in all sound doctrine . Pointing always to Christ and to biblical sound doctrine .

Here is an example in scripture for how those professing believers that went astray are still His.

Paul addressed the falling away from the faith in the latter days as that was to happen first before He appears for the gathering ( the rapture ) in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-3 as that was to happen first before the great tribulation and that son of perdition event.

Paul said that this iniquity was happening even in his day per 2 Thessalonians 2:7 before mentioning that son of perdition in verse 8 before jumping back to describing what that iniquity was; saved believers believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation after a sign. Thus what was taken out of the way, the restraining part of the Holy Spirit in verse 7 and be discern with Him and applied as for why & how God would permit the strong delusion to occur for when saved believers believe that lie.

We can know that is the iniquity spoken of when in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 Paul reminds them of the tradition taught of us of when we had received the sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel which exposes the lie of thinking they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation.

So Paul goes on to address those disorderly believers that departed from faith and that no longer walk after the traditions taught of us in how with the Lord's help as in touching us, we are commanded by the Lord to withdraw from them per 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 and yet we are to do so, not to treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers still because they are still His and thus still saved; 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15

One may see with His help how the parable of the ten virgins apply to them for being out to the market seeking to be filled with oil ( Holy Spirit ) was why they were not ready but yet the foolish were still part of that kingdom of heaven, even though they were denied the wedding receptions for not being ready because they were in that iniquity that denied Him as always being Spirit filled since salvation. Matthew 9:17 & John 6:35

Anyway, as you may see, we cannot judge anyone as not a true saint when they have been bought & sealed as His.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

There is a danger of denying Him by how we judge others when the Lord had bought them as that can also be done by heresy too.

2 Peter 2:1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

We can mark false teachers to warn others by, but not judged them as unsaved or not a true believer.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I do not think identifying how or what a believer believes can be done any more when identifying by a church.

Well to each his own then

 

[amigo de christo]

Here is an example in scripture for how those professing believers that went astray are still His.

Paul addressed the falling away from the faith in the latter days as that was to happen first before He appears for the gathering ( the rapture ) in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-3 as that was to happen first before the great tribulation and that son of perdition event.

Paul said that this iniquity was happening even in his day per 2 Thessalonians 2:7 before mentioning that son of perdition in verse 8 before jumping back to describing what that iniquity was; saved believers believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation after a sign. Thus what was taken out of the way, the restraining part of the Holy Spirit in verse 7 and be discern with Him and applied as for why & how God would permit the strong delusion to occur for when saved believers believe that lie.

We can know that is the iniquity spoken of when in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 Paul reminds them of the tradition taught of us of when we had received the sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel which exposes the lie of thinking they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation.

So Paul goes on to address those disorderly believers that departed from faith and that no longer walk after the traditions taught of us in how with the Lord's help as in touching us, we are commanded by the Lord to withdraw from them per 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 and yet we are to do so, not to treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers still because they are still His and thus still saved; 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15

One may see with His help how the parable of the ten virgins apply to them for being out to the market seeking to be filled with oil ( Holy Spirit ) was why they were not ready but yet the foolish were still part of that kingdom of heaven, even though they were denied the wedding receptions for not being ready because they were in that iniquity that denied Him as always being Spirit filled since salvation. Matthew 9:17 & John 6:35

Anyway, as you may see, we cannot judge anyone as not a true saint when they have been bought & sealed as His.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

There is a danger of denying Him by how we judge others when the Lord had bought them as that can also be done by heresy too.

2 Peter 2:1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

We can mark false teachers to warn others by, but not judged them as unsaved or not a true believer.

You are over thinking my friend .
Let us simply stay glued in biblical teaching . If paul warned them to continue in Christ , we warn them too .
If paul said IF , we say IF . Stick to all sound doctrinal reminders .
Many draw back unto perdition . Cling to Christ and endure faithful to HIM to the very end . Stay glued
to the Faith and let none be moved away with the error of the wicked . We gotta sound more like this .
If they said He who continues unto the end the same shall be saved . WE SAY IT .
Dont let certain teachings of men cause you to let down your gaurd . Just stick to ALL original reminders .
Stick to the original pattern in all things . having the joy of the LORD and the hope of the LORD centered upon the heart .
Its an all out war for the souls of men and thus i will leave us with JESUS own reminder to his own .
But he who she who endures to the end the same shall be saved . He said it on earth
and he said it to the seven churches from heaven as well . we NEED to say it too .

 

[amigo de christo]

Just remember those who do not continue with us were not of us . But we must REMIND the church to continue in JESUS .
We must remind with all sound doctrine all reminders . ITS for the good of the church and works good unto the hearer and doers of His Word .
Learn those bibles well . The truth is , if we would but read it for our own , every day , we would be amazed at how
fast we could grow wise in Christ and we would soon be able to truly help others as well .
So let us get glued in bibles again . Let the refreshing of those pure and holy words and reminders be food for our soul by which we will surely
grow .

 

[Christ4Me]

Well to each his own then

Just saying, do not be surprise if some members of your congregation are carrying Pentecostal/Charismatic teachings with them as they may practice it outside the church or attend other churches or small groups mid week in fellowship.

A lot of the errors from the modified Nicene creed of 381 A,D, have already laid the groundwork for churches to become "Pentecostal/Charismatic" when the worship of the holy Spirit is included with the worship of the Father & the Son. A few selected hymnals has the focus of worship on addressing the Holy Spirit and even calling on Him to fall on them again which is an apostate thing for already saved believers to be singing for.

Talk about a loaded gun in the church. Churches have hymnals that can lead others astray & not just members.

Philippians 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

 

[Jay Ross]

When to leave Church?

When they carry you out on your back in a box with your toes pointed upwards.

What you should leave behind?

A Christian memory of a faithful servant who was One with Christ, for others to emulate in their journey of being one with Christ.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Just saying, do not be surprise if some members of your congregation are carrying Pentecostal/Charismatic teachings with them as they may practice it outside the church or attend other churches or small groups mid week in fellowship.

Well if you mean rai9sing your hands in worship or shouting amen when the preacher says something great? I am very very guil;ty and proud of it! It is biblical!

A lot of the errors from the modified Nicene creed of 381 A,D, have already laid the groundwork for churches to become "Pentecostal/Charismatic" when the worship of the holy Spirit is included with the worship of the Father & the Son. A few selected hymnals has the focus of worship on addressing the Holy Spirit and even calling on Him to fall on them again which is an apostate thing for already saved believers to be singing for.

Well being a doctrinal teacher in my church- I have taught for years we do not worship or pray to the Holy Spirit. Just like I teach we do not pray to Jesus! We worship and reverence and adore Jesus, but we pray to the Father.

Much of this can easily be corrected with simple teaching. Even pastors have been weaned on this. It is a process of taking a church and pulling them away from these errors. Patience is key.

Talk about a loaded gun in the church. Churches have hymnals that can lead others astray & not just members.

Philippians 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Well I agree church hymnals should be cleaned up. But when a tradition has taken hold, it takes time. God is patient we should be as well. We should dread firing a loaded gun against a church that we first haven't prayed seriously for, approached in humility and love while speaking the truth. Then we still should be in prayer that the truth will take hold and replace the errors that were taught.

We should use Pauls example to the Corinthian church. They were a hot mess! but Paul did not reject them, but as a loving father, pushed them in the right direction. He did not give up on them, is the message.

 

[amigo de christo]

When to leave Church?

When they carry you out on your back in a box with your toes pointed upwards.

What you should leave behind?

A Christian memory of a faithful servant who was One with Christ, for others to emulate in their journey of being one with Christ.

Only if its a true church . But let no man or woman ever enter into the chambers of a harlot for the end of that will be death .
Lambs look out for lambs and that means they correct error when its seen . If we claim Christ , my advice would be to LEARN HIM WELL .
Make sure its HIM one follows and not as paul would say another jesus or another gospel . We need to be in bibles big time .
Be encouraged my friend . Be encouraged .

 

[Christ4Me]

You are over thinking my friend .
Let us simply stay glued in biblical teaching . If paul warned them to continue in Christ , we warn them too .
If paul said IF , we say IF . Stick to all sound doctrinal reminders .
Many draw back unto perdition . Cling to Christ and endure faithful to HIM to the very end . Stay glued
to the Faith and let none be moved away with the error of the wicked . We gotta sound more like this .
If they said He who continues unto the end the same shall be saved . WE SAY IT .

Per 2 Peter 3:3-18, it is to be saved from what is coming on the earth; not for obtaining salvation.

Either we run as saved believers or else we run denying Him as our Savior when we are saved and that is not obeying the gospel, nor enduring to the end. We need to steer clear from condemning believers as if not saved but only correcting & excommunicating believers when unrepentant les we wind up denying the Lord that bought them and put ourselves at risk of being left behind too.

Indeed some judge professing believers and say nothing because they were condemning them. Some do not correct others because it will be like casting pearls before swine as they will turn and rend them.

When believers fall away from the faith because of a lie or engage in sinful living, we do not correct them by preaching the gospel to them again, but we correct them by the scripture that exposes that sin for why they need to go to Him for forgiveness and help to deliver them from it. That is, as the Lord leads. When someone disrespect you and defraud you, there is no rebuke coming from you for Him to recover. It has to come from somebody else, be it a family member, or a close friend. We an always prat for our enemies because God does intervene directly too.

Dont let certain teachings of men cause you to let down your gaurd . Just stick to ALL original reminders .
Stick to the original pattern in all things . having the joy of the LORD and the hope of the LORD centered upon the heart .
Its an all out war for the souls of men and thus i will leave us with JESUS own reminder to his own .
But he who she who endures to the end the same shall be saved . He said it on earth
and he said it to the seven churches from heaven as well . we NEED to say it too .

When Jesus warned each church in the Book of Revelation in chapter 2 & 3 and begins with "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; " it is for those that got left behind that did not heed the warning to repent or did not heed the exhortation to hold fast, because He is the One that overcomes for them left behind. Like the prodigal son losing his first inheritance for wild living, he is still son, gets a robe and ring and there is a celebration of that lost sheep coming home as that glory belongs to Jesus Christ also as finishing His work in those left behind.

 

[Christ4Me]

Well if you mean rai9sing your hands in worship or shouting amen when the preacher says something great? I am very very guil;ty and proud of it! It is biblical!

There is nothing wrong with that.

I am referring to the apostasy of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son and especially for times when the focus and spotlight is only on the Spirit in worship. ( John 5:22-23 7 John 14:6 & John 10:1 & Matthew 7:13-14 & Luke 13:24 )

Not to mention that other apostate calling of receiving another baptism with the holy Ghost again apart from salvation ( 1 Corinthians 12:13 & Ephesians 4:4-6 & 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 & 2 Corinthians 13:5 ) with evidence of tongues or by that sign of tongues ( Matthew 12:39 & 1 Corinthians 14:22 ).

If any saved believer falls down in your church due to a visitation from what the church is assuming to be the holy Spirit, heed His words in Matthew 7:24-27 because regardless of the "miracles" per Matthew 7:21-23 they are at risk of being left behind per Luke 13:24-30

Well being a doctrinal teacher in my church- I have taught for years we do not worship or pray to the Holy Spirit. Just like I teach we do not pray to Jesus! We worship and reverence and adore Jesus, but we pray to the Father.

Well, whenever any sinner calls upon the name of the Lord for their salvation, they are praying to Jesus to save them. Plus He is at that throne of grace to pray to, for help in times of need when we are struggling with sin per Hebrews 4:12-16

Much of this can easily be corrected with simple teaching. Even pastors have been weaned on this. It is a process of taking a church and pulling them away from these errors. Patience is key.

I can only hope the Lord is using you to wean your church away from errors since God's gift of tongues are not for private use. 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 & 1 Corinthians 12:7 & 1 Corinthians 12:19-21 Those who have that kind of tongue usually are associated with having another drink of the One Spirit thus alluding to a second phenomenon that happens to a believer apart from salvation by how they got that kind of tongue.

They want to believe it is of God for why they do not care to test the spirits nor the tongues they bring. 1 John 4:1-6 1 Timothy 4:1-2 & Isaiah 8:19

Well I agree church hymnals should be cleaned up. But when a tradition has taken hold, it takes time. God is patient we should be as well. We should dread firing a loaded gun against a church that we first haven't prayed seriously for, approached in humility and love while speaking the truth. Then we still should be in prayer that the truth will take hold and replace the errors that were taught.

We should use Paul's example to the Corinthian church. They were a hot mess! but Paul did not reject them, but as a loving father, pushed them in the right direction. He did not give up on them, is the message.

I understand that but Paul was a founder of that church for why he had authority by the scripture to correct them.

A regular member has no standing and they usually do not entertain correction of any long held church tradition or practices and when time is limited to specified issues in church meetings, one has to wonder when one can speak out.

With the Presbytery ruling over the churches as they own the building and the authority for the pastor to continue preaching there, any one that defies the teachings of the Presbytery are at risk of losing their church and pastor for why many do not care to listen. And they have laid the ground work for the supernatural to happen that it would be hard to reprove them when it happened when addressing the Holy Spirit in worship.

Anyway, Jesus did warn the church at Thyatira and did seem to note that not every one in Thyatira had that errant doctrine that have not known the depths of Satan for which they speak ( tongues for private use Isaiah 8:19 & 1 Timothy 4:1-2 ) and so I can hope for you & your church also.

Revelation 2:18-25