When to Leave Church

[Christ4Me]

The church was born at Pentecost and ends at the rapture. All saved before that are saved but nor part of the church which is the bride of Christ. John the Baptist said he was a friend of the groom and not part of the bride.

OT saints died and went to Abrhamas bosom before the church was born.

Including John the Baptist's and the thief on the cross that Jesus said that He would be with Him in Paradise that day aka Abraham's bosom since He had not ascended to the Father yet after His resurrection.

John 20:14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. 15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. 16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

After His ascension was when He brought the captivity captive to Heaven meaning the O.T. saints along with John the Baptist and that thief that was on the cross in Abraham's bosom to Heaven for that is where Paradise is now located after His ascension.

2 Corinthians 12:1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

I believe Paul was indirectly testifying about John the Baptist and that Book of Revelation for where Paradise was not located in the third Heaven.

Post rapture saints either die and told to wait or on earth when teh bride weds Jesus in heaven.

Revelation 19
King James Version

19 1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: 2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. 3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever. 4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

The voice out of the throne commanded this praise and then the praise from those in Heaven did testifying to what God has done for them as the Bride.

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. 7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

A) Notice many people shout? They are not part of the bride--

B) with saved people on earth still- the bride could not be ready

I disagree and hopefully you can understand with Him from my reading why, even if you still disagree with it.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Including John the Baptist's and the thief on the cross that Jesus said that He would be with Him in Paradise that day aka Abraham's bosom since He had not ascended to the Father yet after His resurrection.

John 20:14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. 15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. 16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

After His ascension was when He brought the captivity captive to Heaven meaning the O.T. saints along with John the Baptist and that thief that was on the cross in Abraham's bosom to Heaven for that is where Paradise is now located after His ascension.

2 Corinthians 12:1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

I believe Paul was indirectly testifying about John the Baptist and that Book of Revelation for where Paradise was not located in the third Heaven.



Revelation 19
King James Version

19 1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: 2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. 3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever. 4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

The voice out of the throne commanded this praise and then the praise from those in Heaven did testifying to what God has done for them as the Bride.

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. 7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.



I disagree and hopefully you can understand with Him from my reading why, even if you still disagree with it.

Believe what you wish, but paradise is also Abrahams bosom. And that is now closed. When Jesus ascended He took all the saved souls from that part of hell and brought them to heaven. That does not make them part of the body of Christ.

 

[Christ4Me]

Believe what you wish, but paradise is also Abrahams bosom. And that is now closed. When Jesus ascended He took all the saved souls from that part of hell and brought them to heaven. That does not make them part of the body of Christ.

I do not believe Jesus is done building mansions in His Father's House for why spirit wise, all saints are being held in Paradise. Then when we ,by the grace of God and His help, O.T. & N.T. put on the incorruptible, we shall be living in that City of God in Heaven.

 

[amigo de christo]

Put those hands up and let the glorious Lord be praised . The coming of the LORD draws nigh indeed .
Homeward bound in the glorious Lord . To the celestial city of our LORD , heavenly Jerusalem
where GOD and the Lamb are the temple thereof . That is HOME . Now let all that draws breath
both praise and thank the LORD .

 

[quietthinker]

When to Leave Church
If you're still in the pew at 3am, whatever was said has sent you to sleep.

 

[Marvelloustime]

Put those hands up and let the glorious Lord be praised . The coming of the LORD draws nigh indeed .
Homeward bound in the glorious Lord . To the celestial city of our LORD , heavenly Jerusalem
where GOD and the Lamb are the temple thereof . That is HOME . Now let all that draws breath
both praise and thank the LORD .

The glorious Lord Jesus be praised.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I do not believe Jesus is done building mansions in His Father's House for why spirit wise, all saints are being held in Paradise. Then when we ,by the grace of God and His help, O.T. & N.T. put on the incorruptible, we shall be living in that City of God in Heaven.

Sorry but as Paul wrote to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord! When a member of the body of Christ dies, their body goes down, but their soul and spirit go to heaven. And yes jesus is still preparing places for all saints.

 

[Triumph1300]

Who is the leader of your denomination?

Jesus Christ

 

[Triumph1300]

For some of you:

"Catholic Church" is not the same as "Roman Catholic Church"

 

[Illuminator]

Marymog said: ↑
Who is the leader of your denomination?

Jesus Christ

That is not an answer. We all know that Jesus Christ is head of the Church on earth and in heaven. The question should be re-worded: Who is the founder of your denomination here on earth. Non-denominationalists have no specific "leader", so the authority to teach is up for grabs to each individual. Their earthly body has no physical head.

 

[Triumph1300]

The question should be re-worded: Who is the founder of your denomination here on earth.

Same answer : Jesus Christ

The Holy Spirit is the agent that equips, empowers, leads, and guides the church until the return of Christ.

That's the bottom line.

 

[Illuminator]

Same answer : Jesus Christ

The Holy Spirit is the agent that equips, empowers, leads, and guides the church until the return of Christ.

That's the bottom line.

Your "bottom line" evades the question. (2 Tim. 3:16–17) does not teach formal sufficiency, which excludes a binding, authoritative role for Tradition and Church. You extrapolate onto the text what isn’t there. If we look at the overall context of this passage, we can see that Paul makes reference to oral Tradition three times (cf. 2 Tim. 1:13–14; 2:2; 3:14). And to use an analogy, let’s examine a similar passage:

“And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles. Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ” (Eph. 4:11–15).​

If "The Holy Spirit is the agent that equips, empowers, leads, and guides the church until the return of Christ", then, by analogy, Ephesians 4 would likewise prove the sufficiency of pastors and teachers for the attainment of Christian perfection. In Ephesians 4, the Christian believer is equipped, built up, brought into unity and mature manhood, and even preserved from doctrinal confusion by means of the teaching function of the Church. This is a far stronger statement of the perfecting of the saints than 2 Timothy 3, yet it does not even mention Scripture.

So if all non-scriptural elements are excluded in 2 Timothy, then, by analogy, Scripture would logically have to be excluded in Ephesians. It is far more reasonable to recognize that the absence of one or more elements in one passage does not mean that they are nonexistent. The Church and Scripture are both equally necessary and important for teaching.

>>And is any church and any teacher to be rejected who strays from God’s words, as Paul commands? That is the fundamental issue.

Sure; this is why we reject any form of Protestantism, because all fail the test of allegiance to God’s Word in Holy Scripture, and the historical pedigree that the fathers always taught was necessary. Every heretic in the history of the world thumbed their nose at the institutional Church and went by Scripture alone. It is the heretical worldview to do so, precisely because they know they can’t prove that their views were passed down through history in an unbroken succession.​

Therefore, heresies and Protestantism either had to play games with history in order to pretend that it fits with their views, or ignore it altogether.
Dialogue with a Calvinist: Was Paul a “Lone Ranger”? | Dave Armstrong
Triumph1300, the Holy Spirit operates through ordained pastors and bishops who are commissioned to teach. You have no pedigree. Just evasions. The Holy Spirit is NOT the author of division. Again, who is the founder of your denomination here on earth?

What is the History of Your Church? - Scripture Catholic

 

[LILAC]

From my understanding, to be tied to a denomination can leave you open to bondage of religion. I'm still learning these things but the Holy Spirit has been very clear on this!

 

[Mugre Pinzon]

When to leave church

Either after the benediction or before the announcements, depending on the order of things in your church.

 

[amigo de christo]

The glorious Lord Jesus be praised.

I second that one sister . Let all that draws breath praise the glorious Lord JESUS .
SO hands up , its a praise fest unto the LORD .

 

[Triumph1300]

Illuminator, you can post as many Roman Catholic links in your posts as you like.
Makes no difference to me, I stand by my earlier statements about what you call "denomination" and/or the "founder" of such thing.

Jesus Christ is the founder of what I follow.

To put it simple: The foundation of Christian religion and the Christian church started with Jesus and his twelve disciples.

What I follow is Christianity, based on the birth, life, death, resurrection and teaching of Jesus Christ.




(And none of your links about people being converted to the Roman Catholic Church and RC doctrine impress me or will change my opinion.)

 

[Illuminator]

Illuminator, you can post as many Roman Catholic links in your posts as you like.
Makes no difference to me, I stand by my earlier statements about what you call "denomination" and/or the "founder" of such thing.

Jesus Christ is the founder of what I follow.

To put it simple: The foundation of Christian religion and the Christian church started with Jesus and his twelve disciples.

What I follow is Christianity, based on the birth, life, death, resurrection and teaching of Jesus Christ.

I'm glad for you. So do I. Can you give the name of ONE "true believer" in the 2nd or 3rd century who thinks the same as you? Does your church at the very least have a web site, or is it totally invisible?? I would like to look it up so I can ask your pastor (if you have one) where he did his training. That will tell me who founded your visible earthly church. (with real, physical people in it.)

(And none of your links about people being converted to the Roman Catholic Church and RC doctrine impress me or will change my opinion.)

The links I post are not intended for people with closed minds. Links are better than walls of text that few people bother to read. A person who hated the CC all his life, got a Ph.D. in Church History, and became Catholic, impresses me and anyone who is having second thoughts about the anti-Catholic garbage that is is so common in this forum. Don't be afraid to read the link in my signature.

Several evangelical scholars have noted that the problem with Protestant ecclesiology is that there is no Protestant ecclesiology. In many denominations—and especially in non-denominational churches—there is no hierarchy of churches responsible to a central head, no accountability beyond the local congregation, no fellowship beyond the local assembly, no missional emphasis that gains support from hundreds of congregations, and no superiors to whom a local pastor must submit for doctrinal or ethical fidelity.​

by Daniel Wallace, an American professor of New Testament Studies at Dallas Theological Seminary.

Does that describe your church?

 

[Triumph1300]

I would like to look it up so I can ask your pastor (if you have one) where he did his training. That will tell me who founded your visible earthly church. (with real, physical people in it.)

Lol
You must be joking.

You actually think people would send personal information
on a public forum to a total stranger who will ask their pastor for information?

Who do you think you are?

This is the kind of stuff I warn my grandchildren about when they are on the internet.

It's none of your business who my pastor is, or where I go to church. For crying out loud.

 

[Marymog]

Jesus Christ

Thanks for joining the convo Triumph. After the death of Jesus Christ the men of the 1st century had the Apostles to interpret His words and call out men who were teaching a false doctrine. The Apostles trained other men and those men lived into the 2nd century. Those men then taught the true doctrine and called out men who taught a false doctrine. They in a sense enforced Scripture.

With that said: Sorry, your answer simply won't work since your answer is what EVERY denomination or Christian says. Soooooo what man/men, 2,000 years later, in your denomination interprets and enforces Scripture? Each denomination feels like they are following the true teachings of Jesus Christ even though each one has a different doctrine from the same passage of Scripture. Soooooo I know you FEEL like Jesus is the leader of your denomination, but the TRUTH IS you have a man in your denomination interpreting the words of Jesus (or you are a church of one and YOU are interpreting them) soooooo what man in your denomination do you trust to properly interpret His words into a true doctrine and not a false doctrine?

Or you can just let me know which denomination you belong to and I can figure it out myself

With that said I know I won't get an answer from you but...hey...it doesn't hurt to ask someone to back up their non-sensical statements that are based on their feelings instead of facts....

 

[Marymog]

Marymog said: ↑
Who is the leader of your denomination?
That is not an answer. We all know that Jesus Christ is head of the Church on earth and in heaven. The question should be re-worded: Who is the founder of your denomination here on earth. Non-denominationalists have no specific "leader", so the authority to teach is up for grabs to each individual. Their earthly body has no physical head.

That is a better way to present the question. Thank you. I doubt @Triumph1300 will answer....but I could be wrong!

Mary