When we see things BEGIN to happen -Rapture

[Marty fox]

Why obfuscate issues? The only 1000 yrs in question in this thread is the 1000 years Jesus and us rule earth as the bible says. Any other millennium you pulled out of your---hat.

Where does the bible say that Jesus rules on the earth for 1000 years?

 

[Marty fox]

Not sure what you think that all means. However, since you have many conflated ideas, you would need to make some clear point. Refresh our memory here, do you believe what the bible says about Jesus ruling here with us for 1000 years after we return to earth?

But the bible doesn’t say Jesus rules with us on the earth for 1000 years after we return. The bible doesn’t even say that Jesus rules on the earth for 1000 years.

If He does why wouldn’t the bible plainly say so especially in revelation chapter 20?

 

[dad]

Where does the bible say that Jesus rules on the earth for 1000 years?

Revelation 20:4. “And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

When? Right after this
Revelation 19:19
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Revelation 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Revelation 19:21
And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

 

[ewq1938]

Where does the bible say that Jesus rules on the earth for 1000 years?

The Millennium: An Earthly rule by Christ and his saints

The thousand years is the rule with a rod of iron over the nations. It is not the length of a kingdom. The kingdom is eternal. Physically it is only in heaven at this time. It is here spiritually inside of believers now. It will be a physical reality after the second coming is completed.

Christ will exercise his Kingly authority on Earth when the 7th trump sounds:

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The rod of iron reign only begins after Christ has come:

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

The saint's reign will be on the Earth not from heaven:

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the EARTH.

second coming:

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

The verb RULE here is in the future tense so it happens after the events of Armageddon are completed.

After the second coming:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


All these prove a literal kingdom with Christ and his saints physically here on the Earth literally ruling over human beings of various nations.

 

[Davy]

The spiritual body is a flesh body, like Christ's resurrected body.

No, because Christ's flesh body that was raised was transfigured to the spiritual body type. Didn't you ever read this?...

1 Cor 15:45-47
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
KJV

1 Peter 3:18-19
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
KJV

His flesh was transfigured to keep the marks of His crucifixion. Our flesh bodies won't be transfigured. For those still alive on the day of His coming, their flesh bodies will simply be cast off on that "day of the Lord", revealing the spirit body that Apostle Paul taught we also have, per 2 Corinthians 5.

 

[Marty fox]

Revelation 20:4. “And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

When? Right after this
Revelation 19:19
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Revelation 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Revelation 19:21
And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

So once again we’re does the bible mention Jesus ruling on the earth for 1000 years?

Sorry but I’m not trying to be cocky or disrespectful here but I’m just wanting to see why you and many other think that the bible teaches that we live with Jesus reigning on the earth for 1000 years?

It doesn’t the verse you provided say nothing about being on the earth what John sees is a vision up in heaven

 

[Marty fox]

The Millennium: An Earthly rule by Christ and his saints

The thousand years is the rule with a rod of iron over the nations. It is not the length of a kingdom. The kingdom is eternal. Physically it is only in heaven at this time. It is here spiritually inside of believers now. It will be a physical reality after the second coming is completed.

Christ will exercise his Kingly authority on Earth when the 7th trump sounds:

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The rod of iron reign only begins after Christ has come:

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

The saint's reign will be on the Earth not from heaven:

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the EARTH.

second coming:

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

The verb RULE here is in the future tense so it happens after the events of Armageddon are completed.

After the second coming:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


All these prove a literal kingdom with Christ and his saints physically here on the Earth literally ruling over human beings of various nations.

Hi old friend how are you it’s been awhile since we debated on the other site?

We have debated on this many times before and no one has even been able to show me we’re the bible teaches that Jesus reigns with us for 1000 years on the earth.

The verse in Revelation chapter two were written to a certain church at a certain time in past history not to us they were to hold fast and overcome not a future church.

Yes we reign now weather on earth or in heaven

 

[Davy]

Jesus' body was raised from the dead. It was still Him, wounds and all. We shall be like Him that is Scripture not tradition. I see nothing in 2 Cor 15 that supports you.
Yes we do go to be with Him when our body dies here. That does not mean that we will not get new bodies one day.

Did you truly 'think' I quoted from 2 Corinthians 15 like you said above? There is NO 2 Corinthians 15 Chapter!

I quoted from 2 Corinthians 5, and from 1 Corinthians 15 about the "spiritual body" idea, of which YOU HAVE SAID NOTHING.

Don't bother me boy, if you cannot even read the Scriptures I post, like I did from 2 Corinthians 5 and 1 Corinthians 15 by Apostle Paul. You don't show me you are serious about The New Testament Scriptures at all.

 

[Davy]

Jesus' body was raised from the dead. It was still Him, wounds and all. We shall be like Him that is Scripture not tradition. I see nothing in 2 Cor 15 that supports you.
Yes we do go to be with Him when our body dies here. That does not mean that we will not get new bodies one day.

Apostle Paul doesn't agree with you:

1 Cor 15:42-50
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

That means Christ's raised flesh body was transfigured... to the spiritual body. And to a spiritual body is what we all will have, which will be like Christ's 'quickened' body.

 

[ewq1938]

Hi old friend how are you it’s been awhile since we debated on the other site?

Been ok, see some people from that place in other places time to time.

We have debated on this many times before and no one has even been able to show me we’re the bible teaches that Jesus reigns with us for 1000 years on the earth.

The verse in Revelation chapter two were written to a certain church at a certain time in past history not to us they were to hold fast and overcome not a future church.

Sure but what he says is universal to all overcomers and it cannot be denied that he was speaking of his second coming and what happens after.

Yes we reign now weather on earth or in heaven

Nope. We aren't reigning now, neither is Christ. It's the second coming when all of that happens. But, if you do have the power to reign over the nations, please tell North Korea to stop persecuting Christians and if they stop, I will believe you. Might as well do the same in Russia, China and the middle east....since the power Amillennialist's wield is global right? The only other question I would have is why haven't you guys done this already? Why haven't you used any of the authority a reigning group has? It's a bit odd a Premillennialist in 2022 was the one who got Amillennialism to do some actual ruling. I'll be watching the news!

 

[Davy]

So once again we’re does the bible mention Jesus ruling on the earth for 1000 years?

Sorry but I’m not trying to be cocky or disrespectful here but I’m just wanting to see why you and many other think that the bible teaches that we live with Jesus reigning on the earth for 1000 years?

It doesn’t the verse you provided say nothing about being on the earth what John sees is a vision up in heaven

So now you make the Biblical requirements, like that last statement?

You shouldn't make such statements like in your above post BEFORE YOU HAVE ACTUALLY READ YOUR BIBLE...

Rev 20:1-6
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
KJV

Rev 20:7-9
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
KJV

Rev 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
KJV

Maybe you don't even read The New Testament Scriptures like some false Jews that come here trying to hide as Christians. Otherwise, how could you not know about these New Testament Scriptures?

 

[Marty fox]

Been ok, see some people from that place in other places time to time.





Sure but what he says is universal to all overcomers and it cannot be denied that he was speaking of his second coming and what happens after.




Nope. We aren't reigning now, neither is Christ. It's the second coming when all of that happens. But, if you do have the power to reign over the nations, please tell North Korea to stop persecuting Christians and if they stop, I will believe you. Might as well do the same in Russia, China and the middle east....since the power Amillennialist's wield is global right? The only other question I would have is why haven't you guys done this already? Why haven't you used any of the authority a reigning group has? It's a bit odd a Premillennialist in 2022 was the one who got Amillennialism to do some actual ruling. I'll be watching the news!

LoL I do miss your humour.

It’s about what reigning actually is it’s about being victorious over sin and death. Jesus reigns over all and we reign spiritually with Him as we are apart of His kingdom

Romans 5:17
For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

 

[ewq1938]

LoL I do miss your humour.

It’s about what reigning actually is it’s about being victorious over sin and death. Jesus reigns over all and we reign spiritually with Him as we are apart of His kingdom

But that isn't what the bible says the ruling is.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

The rule is power over the nations, not "being victorious over sin and death". Amillennialist's aren't ruling in the sense the bible describes and the Amillennial Millennium is not what the bible describes.

Amillennialists have no rod of iron, not even a figurative one. Instead, the nations have power over them. In North Korea and the other places I mentioned, it is the nations that have power over Christians. They use rods of iron to beat to death Amillennialists and Premillennialists etc, or use other things to murder them.

 

[Marty fox]

So now you make the Biblical requirements, like that last statement?

You shouldn't make such statements like in your above post BEFORE YOU HAVE ACTUALLY READ YOUR BIBLE...

Rev 20:1-6
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
KJV

Rev 20:7-9
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
KJV

Rev 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
KJV

Maybe you don't even read The New Testament Scriptures like some false Jews that come here trying to hide as Christians. Otherwise, how could you not know about these New Testament Scriptures?

Well first you don’t need to be rude and make false accusations we are supposed to debate in love and respect.

I’m not sure what you point is what scriptures did I miss what scriptures did you post that show Jesus reigning on the earth for 1000 years?

Read my other recent post on this thread to see where I’m coming from to see what the reigning actually is.

The reigning has nothing to do with the binding of satan Jesus doesn’t reign because satan is bound Jesus reigns because he is God

 

[Marty fox]

But that isn't what the bible says the ruling is.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

The rule is power over the nations, not "being victorious over sin and death". Amillennialist's aren't ruling in the sense the bible describes and the Amillennial Millennium is not what the bible describes.

Amillennialists have no rod of iron, not even a figurative one. Instead, the nations have power over them. In North Korea and the other places I mentioned, it is the nations that have power over Christians. They use rods of iron to beat to death Amillennialists and Premillennialists etc, or use other things to murder them.

Yes we will judge the nations and angels at the end of the world like Paul teaches that’s what Jesus. Teaches in revelation chapter two which is completely different than the reigning that Paul teaches about in Romans 5:17

 

[Davy]

Well first you don’t need to be rude and make false accusations we are supposed to debate in love and respect.

I think you have a insulting spirit, because of the type statements you made against God's written Word, either showing you have not even read it, or that you purposefully try to deceive others. May my Heavenly Father rebuke you in the name of Jesus Christ until you decide to start listening to Him in His Word.

 

[ewq1938]

Yes we will judge the nations and angels at the end of the world like Paul teaches that’s what Jesus. Teaches in revelation chapter two which is completely different than the reigning that Paul teaches about in Romans 5:17

I'm talking about the type of ruling that happens after Christ returns in the Millennium such as Revelation 2 and 19-20. That ruling should be happening now if Amillennialism is correct but that type of ruling is not happening now.

 

[Marty fox]

I think you have a insulting spirit, because of the type statements you made against God's written Word, either showing you have not even read it, or that you purposefully try to deceive others. May my Heavenly Father rebuke you in the name of Jesus Christ until you decide to start listening to Him in His Word.

How do I have an insulting spirit and I asked you to debate in love and respect which I am trying to do?

I have read His word that’s why I stated that the bible doesn’t teach that Jesus reigns with us on the earth for 1000 years. If it does please provide the scripture and answer my question instead of falsely accusing me and avoiding the question and prove me wrong.

I am showing what the bible actually teaches and not adding to the scriptures which what people with good intentions honestly mistakenly do.

I am not accusing you or anyone else on this site of purposely deceiving people because I don’t know or judge them.

The reigning is exactly what Paul teaches in Romans 5:17
For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

 

[Marty fox]

I'm talking about the type of ruling that happens after Christ returns in the Millennium such as Revelation 2 and 19-20. That ruling should be happening now if Amillennialism is correct but that type of ruling is not happening now.

But that ruling is not what amils think our reigning is spiritual and Jesus ruling with the rod of iron is what Paul teaches judgement of angels and people in

1 Corinthians 6:2-3
Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases?

Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!

 

[ewq1938]

But that ruling is not what amils think our reigning is spiritual and Jesus ruling with the rod of iron is what Paul teaches judgement of angels and people in

Sure but all I am doing is showing that the Amillennial version of the Millennium and what ruling is done is not what the bible describes in relation to that time period.

Millennium: the nations are ruled over by Christians.
Amillennial Millennium: the nations rule over Christians.